House of Commons Journal Volume 1
06 March 1621

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1802

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'House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 06 March 1621', Journal of the House of Commons: volume 1: 1547-1629 (1802), pp. 539-542. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=1015 Date accessed: 29 August 2014.


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Martis, 6o Martii

Waller's Estate.

L. 1. AN Act for the Confirmation of the Estate of Tho. Waller Gentleman, in the Manor of Peytonhall, and other Hereditaments, in the County of Suffolke.

Lumley's Estate.

L. 1. An Act to enable Sir Rich. Lumley Knight, to sell divers Manors and Lands, for the Payment of his Debts, and Preferment of his younger Children.

Bowdler's, &c. Decree.

L. 1. An Act to declare a Report, and Decree there-upon made in the High Court of Chancery, between Geor. Morgan, and Richard Bowdler, and Wm. Megges, and others, and all Fines imposed for not performing of the same, and all Proceedings thereupon to be void; and to establish and confirm an Award hereafter in this Act mentioned.

Proving Wills, &c.

L. 1. An Act for the Restoring of his Majesty's Subjects to their former Liberties, and Course of proving Wills, and procuring Administrations, and of Ingrossing of Wills and Inventories.

Courts of Equity.

L. 1. An Act for Preventing of some Misproceedings, and for Furthering of Justice, in Courts of Equity.

Durham Franchise.

L. 2. - Durham. -

Mr. Ravenscrofte, - against Part of the Bill; because it hath 14. - To allow them Two Knights, and Two Burgesses. - Moveth, an Enlargement of this Room for the Members of this House.

Committed to Lord Clifford, Sir Talbott Bowes, Sir Tho. Wentworth, Sir Tho. Hobby, Sir Jo. Strangwayes, Sir H. Withrington, Mr. Brandling, Mr. Crew, Mr. Raynscrofte, Mr. Fetherston, Mr. Mallory, Sir Guy Palmes, Sir Jo. Walter, Sir H. Anderson, Sir Tho. Ryddall: - To-morrow. Two of the Clock, Exchequer Chamber.

Weye River.

L. 2. - Weye River. -

Mr. Alford: - Not satisfied, that the Hundredth of Black-heath shall have, any Benefit by it. -

Committed to Sir Geor. Moore, Mr. Alford, Mr. Solicitor, Mr. Murray, Sir Tho. Gresham, all the Knights and Burgesses of Surrey and Sussex, Mr. Spiller, Sir Jo. Trevor, Sir Tho. Trevor, Sir H. Poole, Chancellor of the Exchequer, Sir Edw. Herberte, Mr. Keightley, Sir Francis Barnam, Lord Wriothesley, Sir Tho. Low, Sir Edw. Cecill, Sir D. Digges, Mr. Noye, Sir Rich. Yong: - Friday, Exchequer Court.

Laws in Wales.

L. 1. An Act to repeal a Branch of the Statute of 34 H. VIII. for making Laws in Wales.

Monperson's Papers.

Sir Francis Fane moveth, to send up to the Lords for Sir G. Monperson's Books and Papers. - Mr. Treasurer, Mr. Secretary, and Sir Edw. Cecill. to go.

Sir Edw. Mountague : - That the Course is, that the Messenger ought to have Precedence, and all the others to follow; and the Messenger to stay at the Bar, till the Lords come down to the Bar; and then the Messenger maketh his Three Congees.

Mr. Hackwyll: - That divers Papers in the Office, for Gold and Silver, which sealed up; and that Sir Francis Michell hath also divers, which are sealed up. - That the Messenger may move, that some of this House may have Access to them.

Sir Tho. Low: - Thinketh, at the Search, they had all the Papers. - The Messenger to desire the Papers, that were taken in the Search.

Debts.

L. 2. An Act for Restraint of Abuses, in levying Debts for common Persons, in the Name, and by Prerogative, of the King.- -

Mr. Whitson: - That the Farmers, whereof himself One, are tied to take Bonds in the King's Name, but the Condition to themselves.

Mr. Towerson, - For the Committing of the Bill.

Mr. Glanvyle: - That this not the Bill of Assignments, but to prevent a further Mischief. That where, by the Statute, 7o Jac. Debts could not be granted to the King. -

Committed to Sir Edw. Coke, Mr. Glanvyle, Mr. Noye, Sir Geor. Manners, Knights and Burgesses of London, Sir Jo. Walter, Sir Myles Fleetwood, Sir Francis Barrington, Mr. Writtington, Mr. Brooke, Sir Wm. Strowde, Mr. Denny, Mr. Crew, Sir Francis Goodwyn, Mr. Serjeant Towse, Mr. Drake, Mr. Chancellor - Duchy, Mr. Pyme, Mr. Whitson, Sir Tho. Wentworth: - Saturday, Two of the Clock, Exchequer.

Informers.

The Committee for Informers, to retire presently into the Committee Chamber, to perfect the Bill.

Monperson's Papers.

Mr. Treasurer reporteth, that they observed the Course propounded by Sir Edw. Mountague; and told the Lords, they would not stir, till the Lords came down to the Bar: Which brought them much Grace. - That the Lords will send the Papers presently; and cause further Search ; and give Warrant to break open those Doors, and Chests, which were locked up at the last Search.

Proceedings against Monperson.

Mr. Hackwyll reporteth from the Committee for Sir G. Monperson, that they have named, to take their Parts ;

1. For the Introduction, Sir D. Digges: For the Body of the Business. - For the Inns and Ostryes, Mr. Crew, assisted with Mr. Glanvyle and Mr. Noye: For gold

Thread, Mr. Recorder, assisted with Mr. Brooke and Mr. Mallett: For Concealments, Mr. Hackwyll, assisted with Mr. Pymme and Mr. Cooke. -

For the Aggravation, &c. and Advice for Punishment, they thought Sir Edw. Sands fittest. - That doubted whether there should be any such Part, or not. -

For Precedents to justify this Proceeding, and to make the Conclusion, Sir Edw. Coke.

Sir Edw. Sands excuseth his Absence. - For this Part, imposed upon him; - Aggravation best particularly in every one of their Parts. - To take this away from them would make their Parts naked. - Would have therefore this Part extend only a summing up of all, and Advice for Punishment.

Monperson's Papers.

Mr. Attorney and Sir Wm. Bird, accompanied with Mr. Bembo, bring a Message from the Lords; that they have sent the Papers, already gotten: Those locked up, shall be sent with all Speed, after they are gotten; and, if the Warrant be too short, to break open any Locks or Doors, shall be enlarged.

Conference.

Mr. Alford: - To be careful of the Conference on Thursday. - A great Tax for the Committee. - That the Committees may attend it wholly this Afternoon, all other Business set apart. - And Ordered.

Proceedings against Monperson, &c.

Mr. Wrenham: - To know, under which of their Parts the Referees are.

Sir Edw. Coke. - That resolved by the Committee, that every one, in his Part, should report, who the Referees in that Business. - And so resolved

- That the Patent of Concealment, or that of gold and silver Thread, not yet reported.

Mr. Recorder: - The Conference upon Thursday next,

- The Matter ever directed by the House; not Words.

- That in the Part for gold and silver Lace, assigned him, that for Sir G. M. only may well proceed. - If mean to question others, they desire to be heard by their Counsel. - Moveth, Mr. Hackwill may now report; that all may - determined and directed this Day.

Sir Ro. Phillippes - To have the Patentees heard. - To have the House sit this Afternoon.

The Petition of Dykes and Fowles read.

Sir James Perrott: - That Mr. Bridges a Patentee.

Mr. Finch: - Not to hear them for Matter in Fact, by Counsel.

Sir Samuel Sands: - That the Report may well precede Hearing of the Patentees; and then to hear the Parties.

Mr. Hackwill reporteth from the Committee; that, for the Patent of gold and silver Thread, though not so general as Inns, more grievous in Execution. Begun in 9o Jac. Two Patents, Two Commissions, Two Proclamations, One Indenture, One Privy Seal. - Knoweth not, who Referees hereof, for so long sithence. - The King wronged in his Judgment, by Misinformation; for informed, it should be a great Increase of Trade; where this a Trade of 200 Years standing: Informed, there should 5,000l. per Annum imported; where none brought in.

The King's Honour wronged; for call their Exactions Customs, their Messengers Pursevants, their Orders Ordinances.

The King's Justice wronged, more than ever by Empson and Dudley; who questioned only for Execution of penal Laws by Commission under the Great Seal: A Commission here, to hear and determine all Offences against this Patent. -

Wronged in his Profit; for the Farm of it let to a noble Person, at 200l. per Annum, which would have yielded many Thousands.

This consumed much of the Bullion: 1. By hindering of Importation of this Commodity, a third whereof, after Use, resolved into Bullion. 2ly, By Melting (as informed) 36,000l. per Annum in Bullion; but, as appeareth by their Books, almost 20,000l.

Great Sophistication, and Deceit, in making this Commodity: - Used white Lead and Arsenick: The Man lamed, and worn out by the Use of it. -

Their taking away their Goods, imprisoning their Bodies, &c. whereby the Liberty of the Subject lost. -

Loss to Merchants, by restraining them to import this Commodity: Much Wrong to Gold and Silver-end-men.

- That all restrained, but they. Taxed, how much they should make. - 3 s. 4d. (and after 4d. for the Benefit of the Commissioners) out of every Pound. -

The finer Sort will afford the Workman but 12 s. a Week; the Second Sort, 8s. the Third Sort, 6s. - Must undertake to do this, and enter into Bond for it, or must give over. -

For the Gold-finers, who work, not only to this Trade, but others ; Bonds offered them, not to work to any others, but whom they should appoint. -

Silk-men; who also bound in Bond, 100l, a-piece, not to buy any gold or silver Thread, but of them ; and to yield a perfect Account thereof, monthly, to the Commissioners. - So for all Haberdashers, and Button-makers, bound accordingly.

That Sir G. M. came but lately into this Business; but more done in it sithence, in One Year, than in Five before. That he, sending for these Tradesmen, threatened them, if they would not, they should have the Prisons filled with them, and lie and rot. That threatened them, an heavier Hand should fall upon them ; and, within Two or Three Days after, some sent for to Sir H. Yelverton;

where present. Sir Edw. Villyers and Sir G. M. They, there refusing to be bound, committed to the Fleete; continued there Five Weeks; petitioned, could hot be heard. That Bail offered, of Aldermen, worth 100,000 l. That, upon Petition to his Majesty from the City, he released them : saying, he would not govern his People by Bonds. -

That they forcibly took away their Goods: 12 lib. of Silk from one Geares; another, all his Instruments, to make -

Sir Edw. Coke: - To hear them first; then Two Questions ; l. Whether these not Grievances in the Creation: 2ly, In the Execution.

Master of the Wards: - Was at the Committee. - That one Newport bringing in some Papers of gold and silver Thread, 6s. a-piece taken for ever Paper by Dyke; and yet after, the Goods taken away. -

Moveth, 1. All other Things be set apart, till this done : 2ly, To object nothing, but what can be proved: 3ly, Not to meddle with small Matters, but with those of Importance.

Chancellor of the Duchy: - To hear them by Counsel, both for Matter in Fact, and Matter in Law.

Mr. Wentworth: - That in Ferry's, Case, 34 H. VIII. Counsel denied to the Citizens of London.

Mr. Recorder: - That there will be Question of Law about the Patents. - To hear them by their Counsel, both for Matter of Law, and Fact.

That Sir Francis Michell a great hand in this Business. - To have him sent for out of the Tower, and to be here, to answer, this Afternoon.

Mr. Brooke, accordant: - For that will put them without Excuse: - And to have Sir Francis Michell here. - And Resolved.

Mr. Secretary: - A Committee to be appointed, to meet presently this Afternoon, after Dinner, to peruse the Papers sent from the Lords.

Master of the Wards : - That we are not now about to take away their Grant. - Seeth no Cause to hear them, either for Matter of Law, or Fact.

Sir D. Digges: - That they will allege, they have done all, as Agents for the King: For this to allow them Counsel, but not for other Matter in Fact.

Mr. Glanvyle: - To allow them Counsel.

Resolved, upon Question, That Dykes, Fowles, and Sir Francis Michell, shall be heard at Two of the Clock this Afternoon, by Counsel.

A Warrant to be sent for Sir Francis Michell.

Mr. Speaker to be here this Afternoon.

The former Committee to peruse the Papers, now sent from the Lords, presently after Dinner.

Sir Edw. Sackvyle -

All former other Business, and Orders, to be put over.

Sir Tho. Wentworth: - To have the Witnesses, to accuse Dykes and Fowles, also present. -

Members rising disorderly.

Ordered, upon the Question, That all those, which disturb the House, by rushing into the Entry before Mr. Speaker, at the rising of the House, shall be called to the Bar. -

Grievances- Proceedings against Monperson, &c.

Sir Tho. Rowe: - To have a fifth Part, for general Aggravation, or Collection, and Repetition summarily.

Question, Whether there should be a fifth Part of Aggravation, Amplification, or Recollection :

The House divided :

The Yea went out:

Tellers for the Yea:

Sir Jerome Horsey, Sir Francis Barrington,

....... for the Noe :

Sir Geor. Moore, Sir Henry Poole,

With the Yea, 188.

With the Noe, 169.

Difference, 19.

Upon Question, Ordered, Sir D. Digges shall make the Introduction : For the Patent for Inns and Ostryes; Mr. Crew, assisted with Mr. Noye and Mr. Glanvyle: For the Patent of gold and silver Thread; Mr. Recorder, assisted with Mr. Brooke and Mr. Mallett: For the Patent of Concealments; Mr. Hackwyll, assisted with Mr. Pymme and Mr. Cooke: For a general Aggravation, Amplification, or Recollection; Sir Edw. Sands; By Precedents to justify the Proceedings, and to lay open the Remedy, and the Way for the Punishment, and to make the Conclusion; Sir Edw. Coke.

Grievances- Proceedings against Monperson.

Mr. Hackwyll reporteth from the Committee for Sir G. Monperson, concerning the Patent of Concealments. - This hath had little done in it by the general Committee, but only by himself, Mr. Pymme, and Mr. Cooke. -

A Warrant procured by Sir G. Monperson, under the Great Seal, for passing such Lands, as he shall find, by Inquisition, not to be in Charge, and yet, that they ought to be. -

This not a Year old; procured upon no special Reference, but by a Subscription of a Petition, referred by his Majesty to Sir Tho. Coventry, then Solicitor: When he saw the Clauses offered, and no Tenure reserved, he knew, those could not hold. -

That Horribility appeareth also in this. The Clauses of this Warrant, of that Extent, as none of his Majesty's Lands, not in Charge before One of the Seven Auditors, but might have been granted by him, by this Warrant. - Omitting the Pipe, where most Part of the Crown Land in Charge. - Copyholds of the King's Manors, not in Charge; and so within this Reach, though the Manor be in Charge. - All the King's Mansion-houses and Demesnes. - Never such a Warrant under the Great Seal. - Where was of Lands of the Duchy, yet would not have the Duchy Seal. -

Hath 200l. per Annum Lands granted him; and, if he surrender it, is to have so much more.

Hath Power by this Warrant, by Commissions out of the Exchequer, to fine and amerce all such, as shall withstand him. -

These not only Fears, but executed strangely. - Hath meddled with divers of the King's, and Prince's, and Noblemens Lands. -

His Agents, Geldar, a Solicitor, Commissioner, and a Clerk. - Found whole Hospitals in Yorkeshyre: Manors, &c. found in Southwarke: Seven Houses in the Strand, with Gardens, found at 12d. a House per Annum.

Mr. Chancellor of the Duchy: - That Sir G. Monperson well knew, he could endure no Concealers : That made him wave him, and pass Duchy Lands under the Great Seal. - Knoweth, any Man may pass any of the King's Demesnes, or Copyholds, and not be discovered.

Sir Wm. Herricke: - That these Men buy Bullion by Troy Weight, and sell it again by Venice Weight; whereof no Standard. That the sealing of this Thread cometh to 6,600l. per Annum. - Falsify it extremely; the upper Part being good, that under, extremely bad.

Sir Edw. Coke: - 1. To ask them, who the Projector: 2ly, Who the Patentees: 3ly, Who the Referrees: 4ly, Who Sharers: 5ly, Who the Sub-commissioners.

Mr. Brooke: - To have their Book of Ordinances and Constitutions; whereby will appear, what Share every one had.

Mr. Recorder: - That they have delivered in Letters Patents, 9o Jac. and 16 Jac. and a Recital of another Patent 13o Jac. which missing. - To have them questioned, what is become of that.

Sir Wm. Herbert: - To demand of them, where they had the Bullion, they melted to this Purpose.

Mr. Keighteley: - That Sir . . Salter had a great hand in it; and therefore fit to question him.

Sir Tho. Row: - To question them about the Sophistication of the Silk and Silver. To hear of the Gold-finers -

Dykes, called in, and questioned, if he had any Counsel, saith, it was One of the Clock before he heard of it; and that Mr. Eggemont Thynn, of his Counsel, being instructed,

was threatened by the Goldsmith, and durst not come. Confesseth, he was a Patentee; 9o and 13 Jac. In 1618, surrendered his Patent; and after, a Commission granted to Fowles. -

That the Countess of Bedford reserved a Sixth Part of the whole; himself, Fowles, Phippes, and Dale, the Residue. -

That Bradshaw and Lassdls the Projectors. -

That he hath delivered in a Book, wherein the Truth set down, what received upon the last Commission: Whereupon about 1,500l. received. That Mr. Chr. Villyers was to have 800 l. per Annum: Sir Edw. V. 500 l, per Annum, and the King 200l. per Annum; And that Sir Edw. V. hath had 1000l. or thereabouts; Chr. V. 150l. -

That the Commissioners were, now Lord Chancellor, Lord Treasurer, Sir H. Yelverton, Solicitor-general, Sir G. M. Sir Francis Michell, Sir A. Apesley; but the principal were. Sir G. Monperson and Sir Francis Michell. -

That Sir Francis M. had 100 l per Annum payable quarterly, and had it paid Two Years. -

That Sir G. Monperson had nothing, except from the honourable Persons Parts. -

That the 4d. Increase, was from the Commissioners, and Officers, Pursevant, Book-keeper, &c.

That there is as good, and better, gold and silver Thread made, than brought in. - No Falsification, as long as he dealt in it. -

That they had their Bullion from the Refiner. -

That he imported, out of Barbary and Spayne, 5,000l. in Bullion, of Gold and Silver. That they buy by the Troy Weight, and sell by the Venice Weight; wherein a third Part Difference. -

That some were committed for refusing to be bound, first by Sir G. M. and Sir Francis Michell; after, by the Chief Justice. -

A Pursevant, a Clerk, an Aider to the Pursevant, and a Solicitor, one Norton, first. - Gervase Oryon, the Pursevant; Henry Clarke, the Clerk. -

That Fowles undertook to serve the Kingdom, but failed; wherefore, upon a general Complaint, Licence for Importation. 5,000 and odd Papers, agreed to be imported this Year; whereof they have 6s. of every Paper, of Strangers; 5s. 4d. of Denizens. -

That the Patent 9o Jac. passed by the Countess of Bedford. -

That he brought in 2,000 l. Fowles, 1,000l. &c.

Gynnar, Wollaston, John Eton, Gold-finers, of whom they have bought their Gold and Silver. -

That he never meddled with the Manufacture, sithence the Surrender of his Patent.

Fowles, at the Bar, confesseth, he was in all the Patents, and Commissions. That the last Patent procured by Sir Edw. Villers; which was a Licence for Importation, where a Prohibition before. That this last procured by Sir Nich. Salter, and others. -

That the first Patent procured by Lord Harrington, and Countess of Bedford; the Projector, to her, Lassells. That they compounded with her for her Interest in it. - Knoweth not, who preferred the Petition. - Bradde the first Mover of it to him, and Dykes the second. - That it was their own Device, to change it from a Patent to a Commission. -

That Sir H. Yelverton drew the Indenture, by Warrant from the Marquis of Buckingham. This, by the King, referred to the Lord Chancellor, Treasurer now. Sir H. Yelverton, and Sir Tho. Coventry. - Taketh the Reference to be in Sir H. Y. Hands. - That the Lord Chancellor, Treasurer, and Sir H. Y. certified it fitting; :but remembereth not, whether Sir Tho. Coventry certified or not ; for,was of Opinion, this was not a fit Trade. -

That Sir G. M. and Sir Francis Michell executed the Commission. That the last for the King's Benefit; only they to have Three Years Benefit, for their Monies disbursed. That the Proposition was 10,000l. per Annum to the King; out of which the Pensions should have come.

That there hath not been spent above 3,000 l. per Annum; not above 42,000 l. used, from 9o Jac.

That, in this Year and half, they have spent 20,000 l which hath been raised out of old Ends of Gold and Silver, and broken Plate; and not above l 00 l. in Coin melted. That they had agreed with Burlimachi to bring in 20,000l. per Annum in Coin, at a Rate; but this appeareth to be made in January last. -

That Sir Nich. Salter and Mr. Dyke managed all the Business for licensing the Importation of Venice Gold ; Whereupon 6s. and 5s. 8d. taken, ut supra. -

Knoweth no Falsification of the Silk; but acknowlegeth, a Workman, he used, did falsify; for which he turned him off. -

That Sir Francis Michell hath had from them 100l. per Annum, besides petty Things, he got from others.

Sir Ro. Phillippes: - Little Use of examining these Two Men; yet Fowles further to be examined, concerning his Falsification of the Silk, and Wrong of the poor Man.

Sir Francis Michell, brought to the Bar, confesseth, he hath executed the Commission for gold and silver Thread. That he had 100l. per Annum for the Execution; which he had it given by way of Annuity, for certain Years in Certainty, for drawing the People to pay 3s. upon a Pound. That he -

Sir Ro. Phillippes: - That Twitty hath had a special hand in imprisoning divers. - Resolved, He shall be warned to appear here.

Gynnar, Owen, Wollaston, and Eton, to be warned to appear here To-morrow Morning; and to be examined by the Committee.

Sir H. Fane moveth, the Committee may meet here To-morrow Morning; and Mr. Fanshaw to bring to the Committee then a Note, what Process, by Quo Warranto, Outlawries, &c.

Sir Edw. Sands: - To have a Question made, whether this a Grievance.

Mr. Recorder: - In the first Patent, no Restraint of Importation.