Cecil Papers
September 1611

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Institute of Historical Research

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G. Dyfnallt Owen (editor)

Year published

1970

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309-314

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'Cecil Papers: September 1611', Calendar of the Cecil Papers in Hatfield House, Volume 21: 1609-1612 (1970), pp. 309-314. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=112473 Date accessed: 21 October 2014.


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September 1611

Sir Thomas Edmondes to Lord Treasurer Salisbury
1611, September 5.I advertised your Lordship by my late letters of the proposition which had been made unto me by the Ambassador of Florence, since which time he having been to visit me entered, after some other discourse, into speech of the proposition of marriage which is again prosecuted by the Duke of Savoy for the Prince his son with the Lady Elizabeth's grace, and he spake thereof as if he conceived that the same was in some terms of forwardness, sith as he said the King of Spain did also interpose himself therein. Finding that he came to sound me how his Majesty stood affected to the entertaining of that match, I was willing to nourish him in a doubtful opinion thereof by telling him that if the Duke of Savoy should resolve to give his Majesty satisfaction for the granting of free exercise of religion to the Lady Elizabeth's grace, it was not unlikely his Majesty might hearken to that proposition. And I told him besides that it did now more than ever import other princes to fortify themselves by good alliances, since France and Spain had concluded to make so strict a union by double marriages, the mystery of that treaty being now revealed which himself and the ministers of this state sought so long to keep secret; wherein it was not only resolved to dispose of Madame in marriage to the Prince of Spain, but also to marry the Infanta to the young King, which purpose of the King of Spain's to bestow an heir of his estate in that manner, so contrary to their former custom, which was never to marry them out of their own house, I told him did show that they had some extraordinary hope to advance their affairs thereby, because otherwise they would not commit that adventure but upon some great design. And I further added that it now appeared that the willingness which France showed to give their second daughter in marriage to our Prince was not out of any good affection (seeing the desire which they carried to the making of double marriages with Spain and the choice which they had made to match their younger daughter into England, whereas the years of the eldest would have been more suitable with those of our Prince, declared that the main current of their affections did run that way), but rather out of a kind of necessity to hold by the alliance with his Majesty their other amities in some balance, for that they knew that all the other states of Christendom would take a great alarum at their so strict conjunction with Spain. He confessed unto me that the said double marriage had been treated of, and that there was a good willingness in both the states to proceed therein, but that as yet there had been nothing concluded, and that it was doubtful in respect of the young years of the Princes what might be the issue thereof; and he said that it could not be interpreted that the Queen sought his Majesty's alliance out of any such end as I had enforced, but rather out of the desire she had to conserve his Majesty's good affection and to live in peace with all her neighbours, which was a chief part of her care. I put him in mind of the three points which he had assured me of in his former speeches, whereof the first was that Madame was already disposed of, which argued that there was a resolution taken in those alliances with Spain. He said that he did still maintain what he had formerly delivered unto me, but that it could not be said that those marriages were as yet absolutely concluded. And I told him moreover that though his Majesty and other princes did not suspect that this state would run any course with Spain to their prejudice, yet notwithstanding they had reason to think that this state might be so wrought, by reason of their strictness of union with Spain, as not to oppose their future designs and specially for the recovery of the Low Countries: and the proof which the State of Spain has had how great the power has been of the late Queen Mother and the Queen Regent that now is for the managing of the affairs of this kingdom, has in all likelihood put them in hope that a daughter of Spain may be no less useful to them by her authority for the repairing of their affairs hereafter. He confessed that the consideration was not ill grounded, but was willing to wipe away the conceit thereof in saying that the King of Spain was peaceably minded, and not in state by reason of his necessity to make war, and besides that there was a purpose to send the Marquis Spinola into the Low Countries to treat of a peace. I forbear to trouble you with my answer to those points, for that it is nothing pertinent to the other matter; and I thought it my duty to advertise you of these particulars of the Ambassador's second conference with me to the end that your Lordship, upon consideration of that which I formerly wrote unto you, may the better know what judgment to make of the whole proceeding of these great affairs. From Paris, the fifth of September, 1611.
PS—At the time of my second being with the President Janin whereof I have advertised you in my other letter, having good opportunity to discourse with him, I brake into speech with him of the double marriage they were making with Spain. He did not deny that the same had been treated and received approbation on both sides, but that as yet the Queen was bound to nothing, and that the execution of such purposes was very casual in respect of the young years of the Princes. And when I charged him that by these proceedings it appeared their affections were altogether Spanish, he alleged that no alliance which they should make with Spain could make them to recede from their grounds of state, which would not permit them to hold too strict a correspondency with Spain. And he protested that for his own part he had desired that this State should rather have made alliance with his Majesty than any other prince, but that we had made it appear that we desired it not on our parts, having given a deaf ear to the propositions which had been made by Monsr. de la Boderie and others, which had been the cause of drawing on these contrary treaties. I answered him that they allowed no place for any other suitors, for that in the lifetime of the last King they were engaged by contract with Savoy, and forthwith after his death they entered into treaty with Spain. I do partly believe that the President spake according to his affection, but Mons. de Villeroy has been the chief guider of that resolution, which of what dangerous consequence it may prove, your Lordship in your wisdom is best able to judge.
Monsr. Jacob, the Duke of Savoy's Ambassador in a late conference which he had with Mons. de Villeroy told him what assurances the Spaniards gave of the conclusion of the match between the Prince of Spain and Madame of France, whereof he would not seem to take any other notice than as being the accustomed ostentations of the Spaniards, and said that he was glad they did so believe for it would be a means to keep them from practising anything against them.
Holograph Sealpp. (129 70)
Ulrich, Duke of Holstein, to the Earl of Salisbury
1611, September 9/19.As to his affair of the pretention of the generality of Venice, although the success has not been according to his desire, yet he thanks him for the great pains he has taken therein. He is doubtless informed that his brother has carried the fortress of Calmar. The Duke of Brunswick has prayed him to assist in the execution of the edict obtained against the town, but he does not think that anything of consequence will be done this winter. Conditions are offered but such as, in regard to their obstinacy, they will never accept. They will permit the Prince to build a citadel, they will destroy their walls, lay down their arms and go with cords round their necks to prostrate themselves before the Duke and demand pardon. They will see what will happen in the Convention of the Electors Palatine. Does not see how the authority of the Emperor, more and more decaying, can prevail to constrain them. The Turk, having made peace with the Persian, wishes to break the peace for his own advantage. Buthow, 19 Sept. 1611. Signed French Sealspp. (147 164)
Francis Gofton to Lord —
1611, September 14.As to the lands of Leonard Dacre, attainted, set forth by your Lordship's direction for the Duke of York, and the King's title thereto. 14 Sept. 1611.
1 p. (P.2439)
Sir John Digby to the Earl of Salisbury
1611, September 16.Since the delivering in of my other letters to the ordinary, the post of Flanders is arrived, by whom I have received your letters bearing date the 9th of August, and with them much con tent and encouragement that his Majesty and your Lordship make so favourable an interpretation of the beginning of my services. But withal I am not a little troubled to understand that your Lordship, since my coming hither to Madrid, has received the duplicates only of two of my letters of the 16th and 18th of June, which I cannot but hold an unhappiness since the only thing whereby I can hope to redeem my other wants of abilities in his Majesty's service is my diligence; and therein, as (God willing) I will not fail by any neglect in me, so I should hold it an unluckiness to be wanting by any other accident.
I doubt not but by this time by the arrival of Mr. Cottingham you have received satisfaction concerning the main business committed to my charge, in which I hope I have proceeded to the intent of the King's direction. Though if I shall freely let you understand what I conceive therein, if there have been any opinion that there was any such intent or meaning here it has been a mistake, for I do every day gather new reasons to confirm me in this belief that there was never any such meaning. Howsoever, either upon too much facility of his own or any colourable direction from hence, the Ambassador there engaged himself further than they here will now seem to avow. And though I shall not presume in anything to speak much of mine own opinion, yet I rest assured that they are so far from desiring greater nearness with us for any love they bear his Majesty, that though they now pass under the name of friends his Majesty shall have more cause to have a watchful eye unto them and their actions than to any other enemies he has in the world.
I am certainly informed that the Duke of Lerma is but a cold friend of Don Alonso's the now Ambassador in England, whereof he has lately given a testimony; for the Ambassador having 2000 crowns a year entertainment by patent, with a clause to continue till such time as the King should better provide for him, the Duke has caused advantage to be taken thereof by reason of his present employment, which he says to be an increase of his provision, and so his former grant of 2000 crowns a year is revoked. And divers others of the friends and followers of the Constable of Castille do in like manner complain of the Duke's hard hand over them. The return of the Constable was much hoped for in the next month of October, but it is now resolved he shall stay another year; but many conceive it will be as many years as the Duke and he shall live together.
Here is little for this present fit for me to trouble you withal, beseeching you that not only in things which may have relation to his Majesty and the State, but in all that may concern your Lordship's service you would command me, whom you shall ever find as faithful as any creature or servant of your own. Madrid, 16 Sept. 1611, stilo veteri.
Signed 2 pp. (129 74)
John Dackombe to the Earl of Salisbury
[1611 or earlier] September 22.Gives an account of his estate and possessions. Acknowledges Salisbury to be the only author of all the good he and his posterity shall have in this world, and appeals to his consideration to be justified from this scandal imputed on him to the Earl of Hertford about the purchase he (Dackombe) has made of Salisbury. 22 Sept.
1 p. (P2151)
The Enclosure
Terms of his bargain with respect to the farm of Pyms.
1 p.
John Dackombe to the Earl of Salisbury
1611, September 28.Details his endeavours to free the Earl's estate. Has bought a lease of a prebend of Salisbury, a tithe in Devon; and a lease of the tithes of the New Forest from the Dean and Chapter of Salisbury. The Earl's state requires a speedy remedy for his debts. He has taken security for the first payment, and has informed himself of the profits of the court of the Honour of Gloucester, which he bought of the contractors. Encloses particulars of all the lands he has sold here, and 12001 more is to be paid by Sir John Leveson for lands in Kent, whereof Mr. Duke Brooke's wife is to have 1001 for which she has Mr. Charles Brooke's bond. Account follows in which the Earl's debts are given as 240001. 28 Sept. 1611.
Holograph 1 p. (196 52)
The King to Lord Treasurer Salisbury
1611, September 29.For preventing of abuses practised amongst merchants trading between our realms of England and Scotland, we have caused certain orders to be set down which we have signed with our own hand and send herewith unto you; requiring you to give order to all whom it may concern duly to observe them as they will answer to the contrary. The observation thereof shall commence at the Birth of our Lord God next ensuing. At our Honour of Hampton Court, the nine and twentieth day of September in the ninth year of our reign. Sign Manual Signet ½ p. (129 76)
The Enclosure
"Orders for reformation of some abuses practised by the merchants carrying goods from England to Scotland and from thence to England, to be observed by the farmers of our customs of both realms."
That the farmers of our customs of Scotland do keep books of all goods that are entered and shipped for England, and also of all goods brought from England into Scotland, the ship's name, the place, and master's name, and to and from what port the ship is bound, and to keep the entries of every port severally.
Also to keep books of all goods carried by land from England to Scotland, and from Scotland to England, and to make certificate under the hand and seal of the farmers or their deputies expressing the merchants' names, the quantity and quality of the goods, to what place carried, and the day of the month and year, when and where the same were customed. The same form and order to be observed by the farmers of our customs of England.
And reciprocally the farmers of both realms to send every half year the copies of those books the one to the other, viz, at Christmas and Midsummer.
That all cockets or certificates be made in the names of the principal owners of the goods laden in every ship, and not in poor men's names scarcely known in England or Scotland.
That order may be taken that no goods be suffered to pass by land from Scotland into England, or from England into Scotland, by the waste grounds or washes, but that the same pass by the ways of Berwick or Carlisle for England, and by the ways of Eyemouth, Kelso, Jedburgh, Drumfries, Armand for Scotland, under pain of the confiscation of goods otherwise carried or the value thereof to our use after due trial therein.
That the farmers of our customs of both realms and their deputies upon the arrival of any ship from England and likewise from Scotland, shall make due examination of the goods laden with the cockets or certificates for the same, and if they shall find a greater quantity or other goods than is specified in the said warrants, to stay the said goods and take them into their possession until the merchants have given sufficient caution to our use for answering the value of the goods into our Exchequer of either realm, according as the same shall be [ap] praised by two honest men to be nominated, one by the merchant, the other by our farmers or their deputies, if it shall appear upon examination that the goods so stayed are uncustomed. The same order to be observed by our farmers and their deputies for the land carriage. And that the farmers of our customs of England do every half year send to the farmers of our customs of Scotland all those bonds for such surplusage of goods, if they be not discharged by certificate.
The like to be done by the farmers of our customs of Scotland.
Sign Manual Endorsed: "29 September 1611." 2 pp (129 75)