House of Lords Journal Volume 13
23 November 1678

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 13: 23 November 1678', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 13: 1675-1681 (1767-1830), pp. 371-374. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=11610 Date accessed: 26 November 2014.


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DIE Sabbati, 23 die Novembris.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

His Royal Highness the Duke of Yorke.
Epus. London.
Epus. Durham.
Epus. Sarum.
Epus. Gloucester.
Epus. Bath & Wells.
Epus. Chester.
Epus. Bangor.
Epus. Lyncolne.
Epus. Oxon.
Epus. Exon.
Dux Cumberland.
Ds. Cancellarius.
Ds. Thesaurarius Angl.
Ds. Custos Privati Sigilli.
Dux Norff.
Dux Albemarle.
Dux Monmouth.
Marq. Winton.
Marq. Worcester.
L. Chamberlain.
Comes Oxon.
Comes Huntingdon.
Comes Bedford.
Comes Suff.
Comes Dorset et Midd.
Comes Sarum.
Comes Bridgwater.
Comes North'ton.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Westmerland.
Comes Manchester.
Comes Berks.
Comes Mulgrave.
Comes Peterborough.
Comes Strafford.
Comes Sunderland.
Comes Scarsdale.
Comes Rochester.
Comes Clarendon.
Comes Essex.
Comes Cardigan.
Comes Bath.
Comes Craven.
Comes Aylesbury.
Comes Shaftesbury.
Comes Guilford.
Comes Feversham.
Vicecomes Say & Seale.
Vicecomes Fauconberg.
Vicecomes Halyfax.
Vicecomes Newport.
Ds. Awdley.
Ds. Berkeley.
Ds. Ferrers.
Ds. De Grey.
Ds. Stourton.
Ds. Eure.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. North et Grey.
Ds. Hunsdon.
Ds. Tenham.
Ds. Pawlet.
Ds. Brooke.
Ds. Maynard.
Ds. Howard Esc.
Ds. Byron.
Ds. Vaughan.
Ds. Colepeper.
Ds. Lucas.
Ds. Gerard Brand.
Ds. Wotton.
Ds. Cornwallis.
Ds. Freschevile.
Ds. Arundell T.
Ds. Butler M. Park.

PRAYERS.

Packet of Letters sent from the King.

The Lord Chancellor acquainted the House, "That Mr. Secretary Coventry had sent him a Packet of Letters, directed to John Grove, which His Majesty hath read; and, if the House please, they may be delivered to the Lords Committees for Examination of the Discovery of the horrid Design against the Person of His Majesty and the Government, that they may make such public Use of them as they shall see Cause."

Which was ordered accordingly.

Report concerning the Militia.

The Earl of Peterborough reported the Opinion of the Committee appointed to inspect and consider the Statutes for the Militia, in relation to the Number of Days for keeping up the Forces of this Kingdom in One Year, "That, upon Inspection of the Acts for the Militia, the Militia cannot be kept up above Twelve Days in One Year; and thereof Four Days to be for principal Musters; and Two and Two, and Two and Two, videlicet, Eight Days, on particular Musters: And of the Twelve Days in many Counties, the Lieutenants have already exercised and mustered their Men some of those Days in this present Year; not but by His Majesty's Directions (as appears by the Statutes) they may be kept up longer; but their Lordships do not find that there is any Power to raise Money to maintain them."

Conference to be had about it.

ORDERED, To have a Conference with the House of Commons, to acquaint them with what their Lordships have done therein; and to let them know, that this House will be ready to join with them herein, so far as they can by Law.

The Lord Marquis of Winton reported an Examination taken by him; which was read; (videlicet,)

Franklin's Examination, concerning the Duke of Norfolk's Chaplain and Servant.

"Joseph Francklin, living on The Bank Side, near The Falcon, in Southwarke, Glazier, sworn and examined before my Lord Marquis of Winchester, the 22th Day of November, 1678:

"That, Thursday the 7th of November, he found a Letter in Chancery Lane, directed to the Duke of Norfolk, to advise him to be out of Town, for there should be such a Stroke to the Enemies of the Church as never any the like since the Creation; that, in the Afternoon, he carried the said Letter to the Council: That, the very same Night, Two Men pretending to be the Duke of Norfolk's Servants, one of them came to this Deponent first, and told him, "There was One at The Falcon Taverne desired to speak a Word or Two with him." This Deponent asked him, "Who it was?" And he said, "It was the Duke of Norfolk's Chaplain." And this Deponent refusing to go, he told this Deponent, "he must go;" and began to make a Bustle about his Door, and called for an Officer: But afterwards, there came a Person with him, in a Minister's Habit, who asked this Deponent, If he was the Man that found the Letter directed to the Duke of Norfolke?" And, after some Discourse about it, they told this Deponent, "That it was a Dishonour to their Lord, and should be of ill Consequence to him this Deponent; and that the Devil had not rewarded his Servants well this Bout."

"Capt. & jurat. die & anno "Joseph Franckling.

"prædict. coram me

"Winchester."

Franklin et al. to be brought to the Bar.

Upon reading the Examination of Joseph Francklin, taken by the Marquis of Winchester, and by his Lordship reported to the House, concerning a Letter and some Passages betwixt the said Joseph Francklin, and Mr. Cutbert Browne Chaplain, and Richard Revell Footman, to the Duke of Norfolke, concerning the said Letter:

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the said Joseph Francklin, and Christopher Mitchel and Anne his Wife, and such other Persons as the said Francklin can produce who heard the said Passages, be, and are hereby, required to appear at the Bar of this House, on Monday the 25th Day of this Instant November, at Ten of the Clock in the Forenoon; at which Time also the said Cutbert Browne and Richard Revell are also required to attend this House.

Coleman's Letters delivered to Attorney General.

The Earl of Essex reported, "That the Lords Committees have collected some of the most principal Papers of Mr. Coleman's; and have delivered them to Mr. Attorney General, to be made Use of at the Trial of Mr. Coleman."

Also his Lordship reported, "That the Committee desires that they may have Liberty to peruse the Papers and Letters of those Lords who are in The Tower."

Popish Lords in The Tower, Papers to be perused.

Hereupon it is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Lords Committees appointed to examine Persons and Papers concerning the horrid Design against His Majesty's Person and Government be, and are hereby, empowered to peruse all the Papers and Writings of the Earl of Powis, Lord Arundell of Warder, and Lord Bellasise, Prisoners in The Tower, which, being seized, are now in the Custody of the Clerk of the Parliaments; and to give the House an Account thereof.

Geo. Milborne to be attached.

His Lordship further reported, "That William Bedloe had been with the Lords Committees; and that the Name of Charles Milborne for George Milborne is mistaken."

ORDERED, That the said George Milborne be attached.

ORDERED, That the Lord Viscount Halyfax is added to the Committee for inspecting Mr. Coleman's Letters.

Zeale's Letter concerning Sir F. Radcliffe.

A Letter of one John Zeale, a Prisoner in Newgate, formerly a Page to Sir Francis Radcliffe, was read; wherein he chargeth Sir Francis Radcliffe for speaking dangerous Words some Years ago.

Welmer's Letter concerning a supposed Priest, &c.

A Letter of one John Wolmer, written to Mr. Harris, was read; informing, "That, at Stratford upon Avon, Two Persons were staid there, who, having been offered to take the Oath of Allegiance, refused to take it; one his Name is John Gerrard supposed to be a Priest, and had come from the Lord Carington's House: The Name of the other they cannot learn."

ORDERED, That this Letter is referred to the Lords Committees for Examinations, to be made Use of as they shall see Cause.

Gerrard, the supposed Priest, to be attached.

ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Serjeant at Arms attending this House, or his Deputy or Deputies, do forthwith repair to Stratford upon Avon, in Warwickshire, and bring thence the Body of Mr. John Gerrard, supposed to be a Priest; and One other Person, mentioned, but not named (in a Letter dated there the 20th of this Instant November), and subscribed "Symon Cale Mayor, John Wolmer;" in which it is recited, "That they were in Custody there, for refusing the Oath of Allegiance;" and bring them in safe Custody to the Bar of this House: And this shall be a sufficient Warrant on that Behalf.

To Sir Geo. Charnock Knight, Serjeant at Arms attending this House, his Deputy and Deputies, and all His Majesty's Ministers and Officers Civil and Military, to be aiding and assisting in this Service.

Spanish Ambassador, 48 Chaplains.

The Marquis of Winton reported, "That a Priest was brought before the Committee for Examinations, who pretended that he belonged to the Spanish Ambassador; who, their Lordships are informed, hath Forty-eight Priests belonging to him: Therefore their Lordships desire, that the Spanish Ambassador may be moved, to give a List of his Chaplains to this House."

Address for the Foreign Ministers to give in a List of their Chaplains.

Hereupon it is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Lords with White Staves do attend His Majesty, humbly to desire Him, from this House, "That His Majesty will be pleased to desire every Foreign Minister now residing here, to give in to His Majesty a List of the Number and Names of such Priests as he shall own to be his Chaplains, and the Places of their Abode."

Message to H. C. for a Conference about the Militia.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Samuell Clerke and Sir John Hoskins:

To desire a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber, concerning the Address concerning the Militia.

L. Carington to have his Liberty to levy a Fine.

ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Lord Carington, now under the Custody of the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod, hath hereby Liberty given him to go to Westminster Hall, for the suffering of a Recovery there; so as the said Usher of the Black Rod, or his Deputy, attend the Lord Carington, both in his going thither and returning; and this shall be a sufficient Warrant on that Behalf.

To Sir Ed. Carteret Knight, Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod attending this House, his Deputy and Deputies, and every of them.

Answer from H. C.

The Messengers return with this Answer:

That the House of Commons will give a Conference, as is desired.

The Lord Chancellor,

Lord Privy Seal,

E. of Bridgwater,

E. Peterborough,

E. of Essex, and Vicecomes Fauconberg,

Are to be Managers of this Conference.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

Report of the Conference.

The Lord Privy Seal reported, "That the Managers of this Conference have delivered what they were commanded to the Commons; and told them, their Lordships will be ready to join with them as far as the Law in this Case extends."

Address for apprehending and trying all Priests and Jesuits.

ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Lords Committees for examining Persons and Papers concerning the horrid Design against His Majesty's Person and Government, are hereby appointed to prepare an Address to be presented to His Majesty, for the seizing and apprehending of all Jesuits, and other Popish Priests, expressing the Grounds and Reasons thereof at this Time; and that they may be tried; but that, after that Trial, the Execution may be respited, till His Majesty's Pleasure may be further signified; and report the same to the House on Monday Morning.

Preservation of the King's Person, and securing the Protestant Religion.

The House was adjourned into a Committee, to consider of Proposals for the better Preservation of His Majesty's Person and Government, and securing the Protestant Religion.

The House being resumed;

The Earl of Bridgwater reported, "That the Committee desires that a Bill may be prepared, for the more speedy Conviction of Popish Recusants, that the Refusal upon Tender of the Declaration may be a Conviction."

Hereupon the House ORDERED, That the Lord Chief Justice of the Court of Common Pleas be, and is hereby, appointed to prepare a Bill for the more speedy Conviction of Popish Recusants; (videlicet,) "That the Refusal upon Tender of the Declaration recited in the Bill now depending in Parliament, intituled, An Act for the more effectual preserving the King's Person and Government, by disabling Papists from sitting in either House of Parliament, shall be a Conviction; and that every Justice of Peace be empowered to tender the said Declaration."

Message from H. C. for a Conference on the Bill for disabling Papists.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir William Jennings and others:

To desire a Conference, concerning the Amendments sent from their Lordships in the Bill for the more effectual preserving the Person of His Majesty, &c.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That the Lords will give a Conference, as is desired; and appoint the same to be presently, in the Painted Chamber.

These Lords were appointed to be Reporters of this Conference:

L. Chancellor.
L. Privy Seal.
M. Winton.
E. of Bridgwater.
E. of Essex.
E. of Clarendon.
E. of Aylesbury.
Vicecomes Halyfax.
L. Howard.
L. Colepeper, and
L. Butler.

Bill of Attainder of Conyers & al.

Hodie 3a vice lecta est Billa, "An Act requiring the Persons therein named, to render themselves to Justice, and in Default thereof to attaint them of High Treason."

The Question being put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Message to H. C. with it.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Samuell Clerke and Sir John Hoskins:

To deliver the Bill requiring the Persons therein named to render themselves to Justice, and in Default thereof to attaint them of High Treason; to which the Lords desire the Concurrence of the House of Commons.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

Report of the Conference on the Bill for disabling Papists from sitting in Parliament, &c.

Then the Lord Chancellor reported the Effect of the Conference; which was,

"That the House of Commons agrees to the Proviso added by their Lordships to the Bill for the more effectual preserving of His Majesty's Person and Government; but as to the Amendments concerning the Servants of Her Majesty and the Dutchess, they do not agree, for these Reasons following:

"That, both Houses having declared, by their Vote, That the King's Person is at this Time in Danger from Popish Conspiracies, it would not only be most dangerous to His Majesty's Person, but inconsistent with such a Declaration, to admit any Popish Recusant to have Residence in His Palaces, and such familiar Access into His Majesty's Presence.

"That, all Popish Recusants being, by His Majesty's Proclamation issued at the Desire of both Houses, required to depart Ten Miles from the Cities of London and Westminster, we cannot think it adviseable to admit them now to continue in His Majesty's Houses, where they may be of greater Danger than in any other Place.

"That, the Design of this Act being for a further Security against all Popish Recusants, the Commons cannot think it reasonable to allow any of them a Privilege contrary to the Law already in being.

"Your Lordships Amendments excepting by general Words such a Number of Servants of the Queen and her Royal Highness, it will follow, that if any Peers of this Kingdom, or Members of the House of Commons, be nominated by them, they will thereby be still capable of sitting and voting in the House of Peers, or House of Commons, without taking the Oaths or Test.

"As to the Amendment of the Word ["Administror"], being miswritten, the Commons do agree."

Upon Consideration of the abovesaid Reasons, the Lords agreed to have a Conference with the House of Commons; and propose unto them, in the 6th Skin, 10 Line, to leave out the Words ["or Queen"].

In the 7 Skin, 1 Line, to leave out the Proviso concerning the Queen's Servants.

Message to H. C. for another Conference on it.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Samuell Clerke and Sir John Hoskins:

To desire a present Conference with the House of Commons, in the Painted Chamber, concerning the Matter of the last Conference.

The Messengers return with this Answer:

Answer.

That the Commons will give a present Conference, as is desired.

Conference.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

King's Answers to Addresses.

The Lord Maynard reported, "That the Lords with the White Staves presented to His Majesty Two Addresses from this House:

"1. For the banishing of La Colombiere out of His Majesty's Dominions.

"Which, His Majesty says, He hath given Order for."

"2. For some Allowance to be given to Thomas Morgan, for his present Subsistence.

"His Majesty hath ordered a Piece of Money to be given him."

King's Answer to Address about Foreign Ministers Chaplains.

The Lord Chamberlain reported, "That he hath presented to His Majesty the humble Address, for sending to every Foreign Minister now residing here, to give in to His Majesty a List of the Number and Names of such Priests, as he shall own to be his Chaplains, and the Places of their Abode.

"His Majesty says, He will give Order for it accordingly."

Sir W Talbott & al. Leave to go to Ireland.

ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That Sir William Talbott Baronet, Principal Agent and Receiver General to his Royal Highness the Duke of Yorke in Ireland, together with Mr. Nugent and Two Servants of the said Sir William Talbot, be, and are hereby, authorized and permitted to pass forthwith, from Leverpoole, or any other of His Majesty's Ports, to Ireland, without the Lett, Stay, or Interruption, of any Person or Persons whatsoever; and this shall be a sufficient Warrant on that Behalf.

G. Milborne to be attached.

ORDERED, That the Serjeant at Arms attending this House, his Deputy or Deputies, shall forthwith attach the Body of Mr. George Milborne, of Winnerston near Monmouth, and bring him in safe Custody to the Bar of this House, to answer such Matters as shall there be objected against him on His Majesty's Behalf: And for so doing, this shall be a sufficient Warrant.

To Sir Geo. Charnock Knight, Serjeant at Arms attending this House, his Deputy and Deputies, and to all His Majesty's Officers Civil and Military, to be aiding and assisting in the Execution hereof.

Adjourn.

Dominus Cancellarius declaravit præsens Parliamen tum continuandum esse usque in diem Lunæ, 25um diem instantis Novembris, hora decima Aurora, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Hitherto examined, this 9th of December, 1678, post meridiem, by us,

Kent.

J. Bridgewater.

Thomas Lincolne.

Tho. Exon.

Vaughan Carbery.