House of Lords Journal Volume 13
10 April 1679

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 13: 10 April 1679', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 13: 1675-1681 (1767-1830), pp. 508-511. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=11669 Date accessed: 29 July 2014.


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DIE Jovis, 10 die Aprilis.

REX.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsente, fuerunt:

Arch. Cant.
Epus. London.
Epus. Durham.
Epus. Sarum.
Epus. Ely.
Epus. Chichester.
Epus. Bath & Wells.
Epus. Landaff.
Epus. Lyncolne.
Epus. Worcester.
Epus. Exon.
Epus. St. David's.
Dux Cumberland.
Ds. Cancellarius.
Ds. Custos Privati Sigilli.
Dux Albemarle.
Dux Monmouth.
Marq. Winton.
L. Great Chamberlain.
Comes Oxon.
Comes Kent.
Comes Derby.
Comes Huntingdon.
Comes Bedford.
Comes Suff.
Comes Salisbury.
Comes Bridgewater.
Comes North'ton.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Clare.
Comes Mulgrave.
Comes Rivers.
Comes Peterborough.
Comes Winchilsea.
Comes Carnarvon.
Comes Thannet.
Comes Strafford.
Comes Sunderland.
Comes Scarsdale.
Comes Rochester.
Comes Clarendon.
Comes Essex.
Comes Bath.
Comes Craven.
Comes Aylesbury.
Comes Burlington.
Comes Shaftesbury.
Comes Guilford.
Vicecomes Fauconberg.
Vicecomes Halyfax.
Vicecomes Newport.
Ds. Delawar.
Ds. Berkeley.
Ds. Morley.
Ds. Ferrers.
Ds. De Grey.
Ds. Fitzwalter.
Ds. Eure.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. Paget.
Ds. North & Grey.
Ds. Chandos.
Ds. Norreys.
Ds. Brooke.
Ds. Grey de W.
Ds. Lovelace.
Ds. Maynard.
Ds. Howard de Esc.
Ds. Herbert de Cherb.
Ds. Byron.
Ds. Vaughan.
Ds. Ward.
Ds. Colepeper.
Ds. Lucas.
Ds. Rockingham.
Ds. Gerard B.
Ds. Wotton.
Ds. Delamer.
Ds. Freschevile.
Ds. Arundell de T.
Ds. Butler de M. P.

PRAYERS.

Message from the King, that H. C. had addressed Him, to issue a Proclamation, for the E of Danby to appear:

The Lord Chancellor acquainted the House, by the King's Command, "That the House of Commons had addressed to Him for a Proclamation to be issued out, for summoning the Earl of Danby to come in; which His Majesty finding to be a Proclamation of Justice in a Case before this House, His Majesty would have been better satisfied if it had come from both Houses; and therefore desires the Advice of this House, what may be fit to be done thereupon."

Address from this House to the King, to issue it.

Upon Consideration had thereupon, it is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Lords with White Staves, and the Lord Wharton, do attend His Majesty, with the humble Thanks of this House, for His communicating to this House the Address of the House of Commons to His Majesty concerning a Proclamation for summoning the Earl of Danby; and to let His Majesty know, "That the humble Advice of this House is, That His Majesty will be pleased to issue out such a Proclamation as is desired."

The Commons attending in the Painted Chamber the Free Conference, the House appointed the same Lords who managed the last Conference to report this.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Free Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

And the Lord Privy Seal reported the Effect of the Free Conference:

Report of the Conference on the E. of Danby's Bill.

"That Mr. Edward Vaughan opened the Free Conference, urging and reinforcing the Reasons which they had offered at a former Conference, and which the Lords at the last Conference had waved the Answering of; taking Notice, that, Reason and Justice being for the Bill as they sent it up, they could not yet doubt their Lordships Concurrence in it; these being the only Motives to the passing of a Law; which being occasioned by the Parties Flight from Justice, and in Affront of this the highest Court, they hoped their Lordships, who are Judges for the Kingdom, and not only for themselves, will follow the Example of their Ancestors, and proceed by Rules of Law, which are to guide in passing of Acts of Parliament, as well as in the ordinary Course of Judicature.

"Sir Francis Winnington spake next, and urged Precedents for the like Attainder, old and new; as, the Statute of 5° H. IV. Cap. 6, John Savage, flying from Justice, was attainted if he came not in by a Day. So, 17° Car. II. Bamfeilde attainted unless he came in by a Day. And we cannot doubt but your Lordships will guide yourselves by former Precedents, the Ground and Reason being the same. But I shall add Reasons, to persuade your Lordships; which is the proper Work of Free Conferences:

"1. We think, when such Bills are regular and legal, as is confessed, for the Lords to change the Punishment, would bring a great Prejudice on the Commons, when he appears, for him to say, "The Commons agreeing to a Composition, admit their Proofs are not full for Treason."

"2. Though we thirst not after Blood, and might have consented to a Bill that gave not him Advantage, instead of Punishment, as this by the Amendments would do; yet as 'tis, we cannot consent, for that Reason.

"3. 'Tis the Earl punishes himself. Our Bill is not severe nor rigorous; but according to Rules of Justice, against a Person impeached, that flies, and dares not abide a Trial.

"4. Flight is so odious in the Eye of the Law, that the Innocent suffer for flying as well as the Guilty: Loss of Goods and Chattels immediately incurs against him that flies from Justice.

"5. This would shew, as if different Degrees of Persons should have different Degrees of Justice; whereas the poorest Englishman is to have the same Proceedings against him as the greatest Peer: And would your Lordships make so favourable Provision for a flying Commoner? Besides, this is not a Flight of innocent Moses from the Egyptians; but of a wicked Cain, out of a Sense of his Guilt, and the Punishment due to it.

"The next that spoke was Mr. Powle:

"The last Conference was for an Expedient, by mitigating Punishment, to put a quick End to this Affair. There are but Two Reasons why Punishment should be mitigated:

"1. When a Man seems penitent, and willing to mend, and give Satisfaction: Whereas this Man affronts the Justice of King and Parliament, and lurks hereabouts, doing ill Offices, and hindering the great Affairs of the Kingdom.

"2. When they merit Favour in their Office; but we cannot find One good Action he ever did whilst in Power and Place.

Mr. Vaughan replied:

"If your Lordships admit Attainders, some of the Lords admitting Flight to be a Proof, the Earl of Danby's Flight hath made the Proof in this Case.

"Mr. Sacheverell:

"It is but a Bill of Summons, to keep him from perfecting his Treasons Abroad, and continuing his Enmity to his Country. But, as your Lordships have made it, it is an Act of Indemnity and Safety to him; giving him Leave to go to repair the little Loss he is under here, by the Favour of those beyond Sea, which he hath served against his Country.

"Sir Thomas Leigh:

"What your Lordships offered at the last Conference, of not drawing into Precedent the Proceedings in the Case of the Earl of Danby, was mistaken by us. We thought it meant only this Parliament; not the Errors of the last, in not causing the Earl of Danby to withdraw after the Articles of Impeachment of Treason read, and the not imprisoning him; which we are glad your Lordships do us Justice in, and find the Error in the Proceedings of the last Parliament.

"Mr. Vaughan again said, That Justice should have his Course, is the prime Consideration: This Earl, he stops all himself; therefore he should not have Benefit thereby; but ought to find that Justice will be too hard for his Evasions.

"So they delivered us the Bill again, with our Amendments; with Expression of Hopes and Desire of our Concurrence in the Bill as they have agreed it, that Justice may have its Course, and the great Affairs of Parliament be no longer obstructed, by spending more Time on his Person, who hath brought the Kingdom into so sad a Condition."

ORDERED, That this House do sit this Afternoon.

Message to H. C. to desire them to sit P. M.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Miles Coke and Sir John Hoskyns:

To let them know, that this House intends to sit this Afternoon; and to desire that they would sit likewise.

King's Answer, about a Proclamation for the E. of Danby's Appearance.

The Lord Viscount Newport reported, "That he and the rest of the Lords have waited on His Majesty, and presented Him with the Thanks of this House, for communicating to them the Address of the House of Commons to His Majesty, concerning a Proclamation for summoning the Earl of Danby; and to let His Majesty know, that the humble Advice of this House is, That His Majesty will be pleased to issue out such a Proclamation as is desired; and His Majesty returns this Answer, That He will give Order for a Proclamation the next Council Day."

Sir W. Andrews' Papers, &c. to be examined.

The House being moved, "That the Papers of Sir William Andrewes, of Essex, which are seized and secured by Sir Richard Everard, may be inspected, and an Account given of what may relate to the late horrid Conspiracy (the said Sir William Andrewes being already in Custody as an Agent against the King therein):"

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the said Sir Richard Everard and William Pert Esquire be, and are hereby, appointed and authorized forthwith to examine and peruse the said Papers of Sir William Andrewes, and to sever and send up all such of the said Papers as may any Way relate to the said Conspiracy, with an Account of their Proceedings therein, to the Lords Committees appointed to examine Matters relating to the Discovery of the late horrid Conspiracy, in the Lord Privy Seal's Lodgings near the House of Peers: And it is further ORDERED, That the said Sir Richard Everard and William Pert, or either of them, be, and are hereby, authorized and empowered to search for, seize, and secure, all such Persons in the House of the said Sir William Andrewes, as they have Cause to suspect to be Popish Priests, or Persons engaged in the said Conspiracy, and give the said Lords Committees an Account thereof.

Adjourn.

Dominus Cancellarius declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in post meridiem hujus instantis diei, hora tertia, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Hitherto examined, this 14th Day of April, 1679, by us,

Anglesey, C. P. S.
J. Bridgewater.
Shaftesbury. Rivers.
P. Wharton.
Vaughan Carbery.
Delamer.

Post meridiem.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

Epus. Durham.
Epus. Ely.
Epus. Bath & Wells.
Epus. Landaff.
Epus. Worcester.
Epus. Exon.
Epus. St. David's.
Epus. Bristol.
Dux Cumberland.
Ds. Cancellarius.
Ds. Custos Privati Sigilli.
Dux Albemarle.
Dux Monmouth.
L. Great Chamberlain.
Comes Oxon.
Comes Kent.
Comes Derby.
Comes Huntingdon.
Comes Bedford.
Comes Sa'isbury.
Comes Bridgewater.
Comes Leycester.
Comes North'ton.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Clare.
Comes Rivers.
Comes Carnarvon.
Comes Thannet.
Comes Strafford.
Comes Sunderland.
Comes Scarsdale.
Comes Rochester.
Comes St. Alban.
Comes Clarendon.
Comes Essex.
Comes Bath.
Comes Aylesbury.
Comes Burlington.
Comes Shaftesbury.
Vicecomes Fauconberg.
Vicecomes Hallyfax.
Ds. Berkeley.
Ds. Morley.
Ds. Ferrers.
Ds. De Grey.
Ds. Eure.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. Norreys.
Ds. Grey de Wark.
Ds. Maynard.
Ds. Howard de Esc.
Ds. Herbert de Cherb.
Ds. Byron.
Ds. Vaughan.
Ds. Ward.
Ds. Colepeper.
Ds. Lucas.
Ds. Rockingham.
Ds. Gerard B.
Ds. Delamer.
Ds. Freschevile.
Ds. Arundell de T.
Ds. Butler de M. Park.

PRAYERS.

Message to H. C. for a Conference concerning the E. of Danby.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Tymothy Baldwin and Sir John Hoskyns:

To desire a Free Conference, presently, in the Painted Chamber, concerning the Matter of the last Free Conference.

Offers to be made, be Way of Composition.

The House entering into a Debate what to do upon what was reported about the Free Conference this Morning, concerning the Earl of Danby's Bill:

It was agreed, to propose, at this intended Free Conference, to leave out the Time in the Bill for his coming in, and so to make it an immediate Banishment; and to offer, that there may be a Forfeiture of his Estate; and this to be by Way of Agreement.

The E. of Danby not withdrawing formerly, on his Impeachment being brought up, not to be a Precedent.

ORDERED, That an Entry be made in the Journal of this Day, "That the Vote of this House, of the 23th of December, 1678, concerning the Earl of Danby's not withdrawing after he had been heard in his Place upon the Articles of Impeachment brought up against him by the House of Commons, and the Vote of the 27th of December, 1678, concerning his Lordship's not being committed, shall not be drawn into Precedent for the future."

The Managers of the Free Conference are to let the House of Commons know, that this is actually done.

The Messengers return with this Answer:

Answer from H. C.

That the Commons will give a Free Conference, as is desired.

The same Lords as reported the last Free Conference are appointed to manage this.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Free Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

Report of the Conference about the E. of Danby.

The Lord Privy Seal reported, "That the Lords who managed this Free Conference have obeyed their Lordships Commands; and the Members of the House of Commons said, They had no Power to debate what was offered; but they would faithfully report to their House what was offered."

Blank Warrant to be signed by Cler. Parl. to search for Persons and Papers.

This House being moved, "That a blank Warrant may be issued, and signed by the Clerk of the Parliaments, for searching for, and seizing, some Persons and Papers, which may make a further Discovery of the late horrid Conspiracy; and that the Earl of Shaftesbury and Lord Bishop of London may be intrusted to insert the Place or House to be searched, as also the Names of the Persons who shall execute the said Warrant, to prevent a Defeating of the intended Service:"

Upon Consideration had thereof, it is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That such a Blank shall be issued as is desired, so as the Search to be made be not in the House of any Member of either House of Parliament.

Which their Lordships assured the House they would take Care of.

Liberty of the Subject, Habeas Corpus Bill.

Hodie 2a vice lecta est Billa, "An Act for the better securing the Liberty of the Subject; and for prevention of Imprisonments beyond the Seas."

ORDERED, That this Bill is committed to a Committee of the whole House; to be considered on Monday Morning next.

Noys versus Sir P. Fortescue.

Upon the Petition of William Noy; Humphrey, Sarah, Honor, and Prudence Noy, being an Appeal from a Decree made in the Court of Chancery, on the Behalf of Sir Peter Fortescue and Dame Mary his Wife, concerning some Lands in the County of Cornwall, late the Lands of Sir Peter Courtney deceased, and from other Proceedings of the Court of Chancery, and Matters in the said Petition suggested:

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the said Sir Peter Fortescue and Dame Mary his Wife be, and are hereby, required to put in their Answer to the said Appeal, in Writing, on or before Thursday the First Day of May next; whereof the Petitioners are to cause timely Notice to be given to the said Sir Peter Fortescue, and Dame Mary his Wife, for that Purpose.

To hinder Officers from making undue Advantages of their Places, Bill.

Hodie 2a vice lecta est Billa, "An Act for hindering the Lord Treasurer of England, and other the Officers therein named, from making undue Advantages of their Places."

ORDERED, That the Consideration of this Bill is committed to these Lords following:

L. Privy Seal.
E. Derby.
E. Huntingdon.
E. Bedford.
E. Bridgewater.
E. North'ton.
E. Clare.
E. Peterborough.
E. Thannet.
E. Strafford.
E. Scarsdale.
E. Rochester.
E. Clarendon.
E. Essex.
E. Aylesbury.
E. Burlington.
E. Shaftesbury.
E. Guilford.
Vicecomes Fauconberg.
Vicecomes Halyfax.
Vicecomes Newport.
Epus. London.
Epus. Durham.
Epus. Bath & Wells.
Epus. Landaffe.
Epus. Worcester.
Epus. Exon.
Ds. Berkeley.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. Paget.
Ds. North.
Ds. Howard de Esc.
Ds. Byron.
Ds. Colepeper.
Ds. Lucas.
Ds. Delamer.
Ds. Freschevile.
Ds. Arundell de T.

Their Lordships, or any Five of them; to meet on Tuesday next, at Nine of the Clock in the Forenoon, in the Prince's Lodgings; and to adjourn as they please.

The Lords agreed to meet here To-morrow Morning, at Nine a Clock; and to go in a Body to the Abbey Church, to keep the Fast there.

Adjourn.

Dominus Cancellarius declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Veneris, 11um diem instantis Aprilis, hora nona Aurora, Dominis sic decernentibus.