House of Lords Journal Volume 13
19 May 1679

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History of Parliament Trust

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 13: 19 May 1679', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 13: 1675-1681 (1767-1830), pp. 577-580. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=11700 Date accessed: 23 July 2014.


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DIE Lunæ, 19 die Maii.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

Arch. Cant.
Epus. London.
Epus. Durham.
Epus. Sarum.
Epus. Carlile.
Epus. Rochester.
Epus. Ely.
Epus. Gloucester.
Epus. Bath & Wells.
Epus. Bangor.
Epus. Landaff.
Epus. Lyncolne.
Epus. Worcester.
Epus. Oxon.
Epus. Exon.
Epus. St. David's.
Ds. Cancellarius.
Ds. Præses Concilii Domini Regis.
Ds. Custos Privati Sigilli.
Dux Bucks.
Dux Albemarle.
Dux Monmouth.
Dux Newcastle.
L. Great Chamberlain.
Comes Oxon.
Comes Kent.
Comes Derby.
Comes Huntingdon.
Comes Bedford.
Comes Suffolk.
Comes Dorset & Midd.
Comes Bridgewater.
Comes Leycester.
Comes North'ton.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Bristol.
Comes Clare.
Comes Westmerland.
Comes Manchester.
Comes Berks.
Comes Mulgrave.
Comes Rivers.
Comes Peterborough.
Comes Stanford.
Comes Winchilsea.
Comes Carnarvon.
Comes Thannet.
Comes Strafford.
Comes Sunderland.
Comes Scarsdale.
Comes Rochester.
Comes St. Alban.
Comes Clarendon.
Comes Essex.
Comes Bath.
Comes Craven.
Comes Aylesbury.
Comes Burlington.
Comes Guilford.
Comes Sussex.
Comes Plymouth.
Comes Feversham.
Vicecomes Say & Seale.
Vicecomes Conway.
Vicecomes Campden.
Vicecomes Fauconberg.
Vicecomes Halyfax.
Vicecomes Yarmouth.
Vicecomes Newport.
Ds. Mowbray.
Ds. Delawar.
Ds. Berkeley.
Ds. Morley.
Ds. Ferrers.
Ds. Windsor.
Ds. Cromwell.
Ds. Eure.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. Willoughby.
Ds. Paget.
Ds. North & Grey.
Ds. Chandos.
Ds. Norreys.
Ds. Brooke.
Ds. Grey de Wark.
Ds. Robertes.
Ds. Maynard.
Ds. Coventry.
Ds. Howard Esc.
Ds. Herbert de Cherb.
Ds. Leigh.
Ds. Byron.
Ds. Vaughan.
Ds. Ward.
Ds. Colepeper.
Ds. Lucas.
Ds. Rockingham.
Ds. Gerard de Brand.
Ds. Wotton.
Ds. Delamer.
Ds. Townsend.
Ds. Frescheville.
Ds. Arundell T.
Ds. Butler M. P.
Ds. Mannors.

PRAYERS.

Lords take the Oaths.

This Day these Lords took the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy, and made and subscribed the Declaration against Transubstantiation, in the Pursuance to the Act in the 25th Year of His now Majesty's Reign, for preventing the Dangers which may happen from Popish Recusants. The Witnesses, being first sworn at the Bar, were examined by the Lord Chancellor, to prove the Truth of the Certificates, concerning their Lordships receiving the Sacrament of the LORD'S Supper:

Robert Earl of Sunderland.

John Earl of Guilford.

Thomas Viscount Fauconberg.

Henry Bishop of London.

John Lord Robertes.

The Earl of Clarendon reported an Information and Examinations from the Committee for Examinations, presented unto them against one Richard Gerrard; who is now in Town, being come up by Order of this House to be a Witness for the Five Lords in The Tower: "The Lords Committees refer it to the Judgement of this House, whether upon these Informations and Examinations, the said Richard Gerrard should be admitted as a Witness for the Five Lords in this Case."

The Informations were read, as follows:

Dugdale's Information against Richard Gerrard.

"Midd. et Westm. ss. The Information of Stephen Dugdale, of Whitehall, Gentleman, taken upon Oath, this 13th of May, 1679, before me, Edmond Warcupp Esquire, One of His Majesty's Justices of the Peace, in the said County, City, and Liberties.

"This Informant saith, That Richard Gerrard, of Hinderson, in the County of Stafford, Esquire, was actually concerned in the late horrid Conspiracy against His Majesty, His Life and Government, and against the Protestant Religion; and is a notorious Papist: And this Informant knoweth that he was present and advising, at several Meetings, with Vavasour, Lewson, Peters, Gavan, Evers, Broadstreete, and several others, for carrying on the said horrid Conspiracy: And this Informant further saith, That the said Richard Gerrard subscribed Five Hundred Pounds, as his Proportion for carrying on the said Design, and hath since paid all, or the most Part of the said Sum, to Mr. Evers, who returned the same to Mr. Harcourt; in the Return whereof this Informant was employed. And this Informant further saith, That the said Richard Gerrard was a Trustee for the Jesuits, and had several Estates purchased in his Name for their Uses, and had several Sums of the Jesuits proper Monies put out at Interest in his Name; and particularly, this Informant did assign over an Estate, to the Value of Four Hundred Pounds at the least, to the said Richard Gerrard, by the Jesuits Order, and in Trust for them, in order to the carrying on the said Design; which Estate the said Richard Gerrard hath since re-conveyed to this Informant, acknowledging there was no Use made thereof, upon the Demand of this Informant, because the Design went on no further. And this Informant further saith, That he is told, and doth believe, that the said Richard Gerrard is lately come to this Town, and lodgeth privately in some obscure Place, in order to carry on some of the said or other evil Designs against His Majesty. And further saith not.

"Stephen Dugdale."

Jurat. Die et Anno supradict. coram me,

Edmond Warcupp.

Richard Gerrard's Examination.

"Midd. et Westm. ss. The Examination of Richard Gerrard, of Hinderson, in the County of Stafford, Esquire, taken this Seventeenth Day of May, 1679, before me, Edmond Warcupp Esquire, One of His Majesty's Justices of the Peace in the said County and City.

"This Examinant saith, That he is wholly innocent of the late horrid Conspiracy against His Majesty and the Government, and Protestant Religion; nor doth he know any more of any such Plot, than Common Fame speaks.

"He confesseth, that he was at a Meeting at Boscobell, where Mr. Vavasour, Mr. Lewson, Mr. Robert Peters, and Mr. Gavan, Mr. Evers, and several other Gentlemen, were present, and some that this Examinant did not know; and he saith, they dined there together, being in August last, as this Examinant remembers: But this Examinant doth not remember that Mr. Broadstreet was there; and while they were together, they spoke of indifferent Things, drank the King's Health, and so departed. And this Examinant denieth absolutely that he subscribed any such Sum of Five Hundred Pounds for carrying on the said Design, or any other Sum whatsoever. But saith, he might pay some Monies to Mr. Evers, but never any considerable Sum; but remembereth not the Occasion for which that Money was paid: But saith, that was not for the said Design. And this Examinant says, he was a Trustee between Mr. Dugdale and Mr. Evers; but for whose Use, this Examinant knoweth not. But Mr. Evers told this Examinant, That he had agreed with Mr. Dugdale, for a Reversion of an Estate in Yorkshire, after Stephen Dugdale's Life, and gave One Hundred Thirty-one Pounds for it in Hand; and that the Estate was assigned to this Examinant accordingly, with an Indorsement or Release for Four Hundred Pounds on the Backside of the Deed: And this Examinant, being desirous to be discharged of this Trust, did desire Mr. Evers, he might deliver the Deeds to him; who received the same, and sent them back to this Examinant, and desired they might remain in this Examinant's Custody till he called or sent for them; and this Examinant kept them, till an Order came from the Privy Council, to deliver them up, or shew Cause to the contrary. And this Examinant intended to wait on the Council thereabouts; but the Justices of the Peace committed this Examinant for refusing the Oaths, which hindered this Examinant from going; whereupon this Examinant, finding Mr. Evers in the Proclamation, thought fit to deliver the Deeds to one Ansell, according to the Order of the Privy Counsellors, dated the 12th of February last past. And this Examinant further saith, That he doth not know of any Estate, purchased in his Name, for the Jesuits Use, nor for the Use of any other Person, to this Examinant's Remembrance. And he saith, That all the Estate he now enjoyeth was either left by his Ancestors, or purchased with his own proper Monies; nor he doth not know of any Monies put out in his Name for the Jesuits Use: But he saith, That he had divers Sums of Money put forth in his Name, for other Persons Use; but who the Persons were that desired such Use of his Name, or (fn. *) for whose Use the said Sums were, this Examinant doth not remember. And this Examinant further saith, That the Estate of Stephen Dugdale was not assigned unto him for the Use of the Church of Rome, that he knew of; and that he saw no Money paid when the said Deeds were sealed by Mr. Dugdale. But this Examinant confesseth, that, for a while, he did own the Assignment of the said Dugdale to be for Four Hundred Pounds Consideration paid by this Examinant as his own proper Monies; but afterwards, upon the coming forth of the Proclamation, denied the same to be his own; but did it not till it was very unlikely that Mr. Evers should return. And this Examinant confesseth, that he hath absented himself from his Habitation some Time, since the Discovery of the Plot discoursed of; but did it not for any Apprehension of his own Privity thereunto, or of any the least Knowledge he had of it; but merely because he was unwilling that the Justices should impose the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy upon him, which was in Time after the Justices had issued a Warrant for this Examinant to appear before them on that Occasion: But afterwards this Examinant did appear at the Sessions among other Gentlemen, lest any Suspicion might be had of this Examinant. And this Examinant hath since taken the Oath of Allegiance; but was committed by the Justices although he took the same, and remains still a Prisoner in Stafford; but was permitted to come up to London, upon the Summons of the House of Peers, to be Witness for the Lords in The Tower. He confesseth, that he knew the old Lord Aston, who was reputed a Protestant, but, as he hath uncertainly heard, died a Roman Catholic; and he believes the present Lord Aston is a Roman Catholic. And further saith not.

"Rich. Gerrard."

Capt. 17° Maii, 1679, coram me,

Edmond Warcupp.

His further Examination.

"Midd. et Westm. ss. The further Examination of Richard Gerrard Esquire, taken before me, Edmond Warcupp Esquire, One of His Majesty's Justices in the said County and City, this Day of May, 1679.

"This Examinant saith, That, at the Meeting at Boscobell, in August last, mentioned in this Examinant's former Examination, there was something of Prayers before Dinner; and that a Gentleman, one Mr. John Gaven, read something forth of a Paper, by which this Examinant had heard and conceives the said Mr. Gaven made a Renunciation of the World. After which, several of the Company, with this Examinant went to see The Royal Oake, and so to Dinner. And this Examinant further saith, That he having Three Sons bred up in the English College at St. Omers, he sent Seventy-five Pounds to Mr. Francis Evers, to transmit to St. Omers, for the Examinant's Children's Education there for the last Year; and in the preceding Years, when this Examinant had but One Son there, he Yearly sent Mr. Evers Twenty-five Pounds for his Education there; but whether Mr. Evers paid the said Monies to Mr. Harcourt, or by what other Hand Mr. Evers returned the said Monies to St. Omers, this Examinant doth not know. And this Examinant further saith, That, in Obedience to His Majesty's Proclamation, he did intend to send for his Three Sons from St. Omers; but, not knowing who is now Superior there, or how to convey any Letter to St. Omers without Hazard of this Examinant, he hath hitherto forborne to send; but is still ready and desirous to send for them Home, if he may know how with Safety to do the same. And this Examinant further saith, upon further Thoughts, that he might put forth Monies at Interest for Mr. Evers and Mr. Vavasour, in this Examinant's Name; but whatever Sums were so put forth, were re-paid to them; and whether it were their own Monies, or the Jesuits Monies, or whose, this Examinant knoweth not. And this Examinant saith, That he had known Mr. John Gaven about Four or Five Years; and saith, that he was reputed to be a Romish Priest. And this Examinant hath heard that the said Mr. Gaven was the Son of a Tradesman in London. And this Examinant further saith, That there was a Rumour in the Country, of an Indulgence granted, at the Year of Jubilee last past, to the Catholics of England, that, saying certain Prayers for the Catholic Religion, Extirpation of Heresy, and Unity of Christian Princes, and performing other Devotions, as plenary Indulgence was granted as if they visited the Holy Places in Rome in the Year of Jubilee, which happens but Once in Twenty-five Years. But this Examinant knoweth not thereof, and further saith not.

"Richard Gerrard."

Capt. Die et Anno supradict. coram me,

Edmond Warcupp.

Richard Gerrard committed to Newgate.

Whereas Richard Gerrard Esquire is charged upon Oath with Treason:

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Keeper of the Prison of The Gatehouse at Westm. in whose Custody the said Richard Gerrard now is, be, and is hereby, required forthwith to take Care for the conveying of the said Richard Gerrard to the Prison of Newgate, there to remain a Prisoner till he shall be discharged by due Course of Law; and for so doing, this shall be a sufficient Warrant.

To the Keeper of the Prison of The Gatehouse at Westm. as also to the Keeper of the Prison of Newgate, and their respective Deputies, and every of them.

The Informations and Examinations to be delivered to the Secret Committee of H. C.

ORDERED, That the Information of Stephen Dugdale Gentleman, taken before Edmond Warcupp Esquire, One of the Justices of Peace for the County of Midd. and Liberty of Westm. against Richard Gerrard Esquire, who is charged thereby to be guilty of the late horrid Conspiracy, as also Two Examinations of the said Richard Gerrard taken by the said Edmond Warcupp, be transmitted to the Secret Committee of the House of Commons.

Commons desire the E. of Danby's Method of Trial, may be adjusted; and they will then go on with the Trial of the Popish Lords; and object to the Bishops desiring Leave to be absent, as it implies a Right to sit.

"The Lord President reported, "That the Lords Committees have met this Morning with the Committee of the House of Commons; where the Commons acquainted the Lords, that they had reported to their House the Vote of this House, and the Desire of the Lords Spiritual, which occasioned the House of Commons to give this further Instruction to their Committee; (videlicet),

"To insist on the former Vote of their House, That the Lords Spiritual ought not to have any Vote in the Proceedings against the Lords in The Tower; and when that Matter shall be settled, and the Method of Proceedings adjusted, their House shall be then ready to proceed upon the Trial of the Pardon of the Earl of Danby, against whom the House of Commons hath already demanded Judgement; and afterwards to the Trials of the Five Lords in The Tower.

"Upon which, the Lords told them, they had no Authority to debate this Matter.

"The Commons then further said, That the Lords Resolution, which was offered, was no Answer to their Proposition, which comprehended the Earl of Danby as well as the Five Lords; and the Lords Answer relates only to the Five Lords: Besides, the Lords Answer was doubtful; for it appears, that the Bishops asked Leave to be absent, but it appears not that it was granted; and if they may ask Leave, and it be not granted, then consequently the Bishops must sit in Court at the Trials. The Commons conceive, that the Bishops absenting themselves by Way of Leave is a strong Implication of a Right asserted, which they cannot allow can ever be maintained; and think there is the same Reason for the Bishops being absent from the Trial upon the Pardon, as at the Trial of the other Five Lords; and that the naming of a Day for the Trial of the Five Lords, before the Trial of the Pardon of the Earl of Danby, against whom the Commons have already demanded Judgement, is a putting that last, which they desired should be first.

"To which the Lords told them, They were not empowered to debate; but would report these Matters to their House.

"The Commons hereupon replied, They are ready to go on; and that, for Want of these Trials, all Public Business stands still: But the Lords seem to lay the Stop at the Commons Door, by naming a Day, which they conceive ought not to have been appointed before the Methods be considered; for the Lords have not answered the Commons in Matter of Right, which is necessary first to be adjusted; and they desire your Resolution as to that Matter; for they conceive they have no Right: And the Lords may as well make the Judges Part of their Court, as the Bishops, in this Point.

"The Commons will give no Disturbance to the ancient Judicature; for they own that to be sacred. And they conceive they have a Right to know before what Court they shall appear; and they hope the Lords will consider of their having appointed a Day before the Methods be considered, and will give them Leave to wonder at it."

Papers found in Lord Stafford's House, to be delivered to the Secret Committee of H. C.

ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That Edmond Warcupp Esquire, One of the Deputy Lieutenants and Justice of Peace for the County of Midd. who, by Order of this House, hath searched the House of Viscount Stafford, called or known by the Name of Tarthall, and seized some Papers there, do forthwith transmit the said Papers to the Secret Committee of the House of Commons; and for so doing, this shall be a sufficient Warrant.

Methods and Rules of Trial of the impeachedLords.

The Lord Privy Seal reported, "That the Committee of Privileges have met, and considered of the Methods and Rules to be observed at the Trials of the Five Lords in The Tower; which are offered to the Consideration of the House."

No Lord to visit them without Leave.

ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That no Lord of this House shall visit any of the Lords now Prisoners in The Tower, without Leave of this House first had on that Behalf.

Message from H. C. with a Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Markham, &c.

To acquaint their Lordships, that the Commons have passed a Bill, intituled, "An Act for reviving of a former Act, intituled, An Act for giving Leave to buy and export Leather and Skins tanned or dressed;" to which the Commons desire their Lordships Concurrence.

For re-engrossing Fines burnt and lost, Bill.

The Lord Privy Seal reported, "That the Committee appointed to consider the Bill for re-engrossing the Fines which were burnt in The Temple, have considered the same; and are of Opinion, that the said Bill is sit to pass, without any Amendment."

Hodie 3a vice lecta est Billa, "An Act for re-engrossing of the Records of Fines burnt or lost in the late Fire in The Temple."

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

And it was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Message to H. C. that the Lords have passed it and Dale's Bill.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir William Beversham and Sir Samuell Clerke:

To acquaint them, that the Lords have passed the Bill concerning Charles Dale's Estate, and also the Bill for re-engrossing of the Records of Fines burnt or lost in the late Fire in The Temple.

Adjourn.

Dominus Cancellarius declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Martis, 20um diem instantis Maii, hora decima Aurora, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Footnotes

* Deest in Originali.