House of Commons Journal Volume 1
03 March 1610

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History of Parliament Trust

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1802

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'House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 03 March 1610', Journal of the House of Commons: volume 1: 1547-1629 (1802), pp. 404-405. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=1323 Date accessed: 21 April 2014. Add to my bookshelf


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Saturni, 3o Martii, 1609

Pyrates.

L. 2a. - PYRATES and Pyracies. -

Mr. Peard relateth divers Spoils, Attempts, and Insolences of Pyrates, in the Western Parts. -

King's Privy Council, learned, Burgesses of all Port Towns, Knights of maritime Counties, Mr. Fuller, Mr. Peard, Sir Rich. Haughton, Sir Chro. Perkins, . . . Dan. Dun, Mr. Yelverton, Mr. Ingram, Sir Geo. Moore, Sir Warwick Heale, Sir Roger Owen, Sir Edw. Conway, Mr. Martin, Sir Rob. Maunsell, Sir Tho. Lake, Sir Lewys Lewknor, Sir Tho. Lowe, Sir Wm. Strowd, Sir Jo. Bennett, Sir Antho. Cope, Sir Fr. Popham, Sir Henry Poole, Sir Rob. Oxenbridge: - Thursday, in this House.

Essex's Estate.

... Robinson, on Monday Morning to be heard, in Mr. Essex his Bill, upon a Petition.

Motion, by Mr. Martin, for adding Committees : - Said, they were thought not indifferent.

To add; but not in this Case, because a Tax. - Much Dispute.

Salters, &c.

Wednesday, to hear Counsel for the Lord Arundell, in Salters and Brewers.

Great Charter.

L. 2a. - Great Charter: Privy Council, all the Lawyers of the House, Sir Edw. Sandys, Sir Roger Owen, Mr. Hare, Sir Geo. Moore, Sir Charles Cornwallys, Sir Gam. Capell, Sir Herbert Crofts, Sir Maurice Berkley, Sir Lewys Lewknor, Sir Nich. Sanders, Sir H. Nevill, Sir Ed. Mountague, Mr. Nanton, Sir Wm. Strowd, Sir Geo. Carey, Masters of the Requests, all Ambassadors, Sir. Edm. Bowyer, Sir Roger Aston, Mr. Salter, Sir H. Nevill, Mr. Lieutenant, Sir Rich. Spencer, Sir Rob. Mansfield: - This Day Sennight, in this House.

Supply.

Sir Edwyn Sandys, - for Thursday's Conference. -

Two single Speeches : - Mr. Chancellor : -

North.

Answer of a great Counsellor, - of Wisdom, Learning, true Honour, Courtesy, - Worthy Knights and Gentlemen : - Speak with Reverence, Respect, Comeliness; - Not sorted by Success, but

elected by free Choice. - Not suddenly to rush into Rock of Censure, where so many fine Wits lie at Receipt. -

With Comfort, where Kinsmen Friends; and whose Society had made familiar. -

Though Degree - * and Speech dissonant, yet the End and Scope One: - Union. -

Three Things in the Message: - Sensibleness of the King's Wants; right Division of Remedy ; Profession to shew forth a worthy Emulation in contending for the Point of Honour. -

For Matter of Support, that they - it should rest in Opportunity, where now lodged. -

As begun in Hope, so end in good Satisfaction. - Left nothing for him to speak. -

Inscriptionem but imaginem Caesaris - in my Lord Treasurer. -

Taken up all the Lodgings of Arguments by his Harbingers, as there was nothing left him. -

Introduction. -

Five Parts: - Who demanded : - What: - The Time: - Reasons of the Demand : - Objections. -

Sincerity, a Speaker without Soile : - Sincerity, Sepulchrum patris. -

Reasons : - Person of the King : - Moral Virtue : - Ornaments of Nature. -

Some Princes having none of these; some One - and had - To the Soul - Care of Religion: - Bounty to the Church. - Laid his Foundation in lapide angulari. -

Bounty to the Church. - No Church distressed which his Majesty had not salved. -

Rippon Fabrick and Lands; Poules; Salisb. and Exceter. -

Duels: - Great Difficulty of Redress: - By Corruption of Man's Nature. -

Care of the Fortunes of all his Subjects. - Four new royal Ships. - Abuses of the Navy. -

Much Water by the Mill, which the Miller did not know. -

Matter of Navy, Cause sufficient. -

Consideration of Honour. - Rectified by the Earl Marshal. - Having found it aeream, leave auream, if God assisted. -

No Misdeserts - to remove us. - Sometimes personal Exceptioms: - Pride, Riot, Pleasure, Extortion, Quarrelsomeness. -

Free from all Except that may abate good Affection. -

Demand: - Supply, and Support. - Sun raiseth Vapours, doth not retain. - The Ocean doth not hold, - but doth not hold. - Ever to Parliament. -

When the Assistance of his own Treasure was dry : - Archduke, French King, King of Spayne. - This seasonable Demand. -

Two Reasons; One General, the other particular to his Majesty. - Body more consumed than nourished. -

R. II. Chalices and Crosses. - Two Millions. - H. III. and E. IV. Debts paid.

Fear the like Expence continued. -

Eyes of the World upon us. - Caucasus not a Mouse.-

His Majesty would discern Askers for Necessity, and not for Wantonness. -

The Prince a glorious Star. - A Child of the Muses. -

Some Waste, but the Humour generous. -

Jacob had served Seven Years for Rachel his Love: - He had kept them. - He had wrestled for our Sakes, and shrunk a Sinew.

Privilege - Objectionable Publication.

Report for Yesterday, by Mr. Recorder, for Cowell; and Mr. Solicitor, for Earl Salisbury.

Saturni, 3o Die Martii, 1609. Post meridiem.

Call of the House.

THE House called.

Seven in the Morning: - The Committee for Privileges to consider of some Order for the Defects, on Monday.

Q. Whether this Day Fortnight to be called: - Resolved.

Elrington.

L. 1a. - ELRINGTON.

Woods.

L. 1a. - Preservation of Woods.

Jernegan's Estate.

Jernegan: - Reported by Sir Rob. Hitcham, with Amendments : - Upon Question, ingrossetur.

Privilege- Objectionable Publication.

Mr. Recorder: - Report of Friday's Conference: - Cowell's Book, and Matter of Support. - First, in Time, ours; - first handling. -

Champion for a Kingdom, as Attorney for a King. -

Mr. Attorney's Speech : - Four Parts : - Avoiding of Opposition; - A full Discovery of the Author's Ends; - his Presumption; - of Purpose, and not of Ignorance. -

The Cause, in Interest, ours, as yours. - Mr. John Cowell, Doctor of Civil Law. - Neither Opposition, nor Emulation, against the Civil Law; - The Empire's Law: - The wisest that ever was. -

A younger Brother here: - Had a Portion of Judicature. - No Level at his Profession, nor Person. -

The Parts out of the Book remembered. - The Parliament. -

Some Parts of Government against which any Dispute, seditious. -

Presumptuous Novelty of Danger, and Consequences evil. -

Parliament ancient: - Great Ligament. -

If of States and Kingdoms - in thesi; - but, rebus sic stantibus - to shake these Foundations, that Success' had settled.

If the Profess' Phys' give an ill Medicine : - If no Physic' let him look to it. -

A Question so tender, handled so safely. -

The Places out of the Book so distinctly, so accentative, and significative; as every Word, "Subsidy," " King," " Prerogative," " Parliament."

The Lord Chancellor: - Their Commission only to hear, and report.

Matter of Support. -

Tenures and Wardships.

True Use of Report Light of Information: - Then Delight and Pleasure. -

The Light not clear: - He brings some Dimness, and overshadow. - May rather alba matutina, than crepusculum vespertinum. -

Memory. - Consisted wholly of Matter: - Every Word weighed, plus significat, quam loquitur. -

This Speech had imaginem Caesaris. - Petition recommended by their Lordships: - The King's Answer. -

Accesses, and Recesses, in the Speech. -

A Preface. - The Effect of the King's Answer: - Application and Advice to the House.

His Lordship: - The Time of the King's Answer: - True Directory : - Not improbable. - Two Days before the King's Answer. - Twice we spoke. - If any thing have interposed that shall cause an Alteration - mark. -

Intretur judicium nunc pro tunc. -

The King's Answer a Relation when spoken, and not when he delivered. -

When the K. answ. the Point of Honour between us. -

The Subject itself of a delicate Constitution.

His Speech from the King, your Sovereign: Earl of Salisb. your Fellow. -

1. King's Answer.

2. Grounds and Reasons for taking farther Time.

3. Promise for a direct Answer.

4. A Liberty: - What things we might handle in the mean Time.

5. A Measure: - How to esteem the King's Interest, if we Call to bargain, -

Gracious Acceptation of the Form held by their Lordships. -

Nature of his * * * imponere formam, not privare motu. -

That it was new and important: - His Majesty would take Deliberation. -

Tenure. - Considerat' of Honour. - Regal Honour admits no Comparison, therefore curious. -

Honor non compensatur lucro. -

He that is not weary of the Name of Subject, can justly call a Grievance. -

Conscience. - By his Office, supreme Tutelage. - No Thought without Disloyalty, this in Sovereignty. -

Another Tutelage: - The Infants of the Noblesse. -

Is it officium boni Regis ? - Shall he abandon this regal Protection? - For a Bargain of Money, expose them to a common and vulgar Protection ? - Of Force to delay Answer. -

That his Majesty no Cause of Repentance; we no Repentance, to ask it. -

Utility. - Not the King's Study. -

Promise of Answer before Recess of this Session : - Direct Answer in due Time.

4. Part: A Liberty. -

Individuals, special, general, - Thought not the Interest of the Wards. - If, in Execution, any Corruption, any Violence, any Abuse ; spare not the Court, nor the Officer: - As freely as a Pair of Gloves. -

Special: - Points of Retribution, - Ten in Number. - Disvalue them not, because offered; but value them highly, because never offered. -

His Majesty's Desire to plant, in his own Time, a Perpetuity of that might be for the Good of his People.

- Did not distrust.

5. Measure of Valuation. - 1. A Verb, esse. 2. Posse.

- What is, What may be. -

May be this Year, more than the last: - More the next, than this. -

Tell Neighbours, we have made a pretty Hedge about it. -

Advice, Application, Recommend. - Two Things. - A clear Proceeding. - It is free for Matters of Retribution. - If Tenures, a Supersed' it is free for you to repair to us. -

It is a Maxim infallible; Union of Interests, Union of Objects and Ends. -

Salomon's Temple. - Deus omnia suaviter disponit. -

The Misery of Consultation, if Speeches be not well interpreted. -

A Request, that the King's Answer may not be prejudiced. -

A like Request, that if any Man will help.

Mr. Crewe: - Quid faciendum ? - Hath not heard any thing that may break off our Hopes. -

We are in a fair Way. -

If it rested merely upon Profit, we might have had a quick Answer. -

The Stop in Point of Honour or Conscience : - In Point of Sovereignty. - Communicat' - with Subject -

- no Sovereignty. -

For Conscience. -

Wards assignable. -

Presently to go forward : - To desire a Conference. -

A Committee to prepare.

Sir Fr. Bacon : - To urge Reasons that may remove Obstructions. -

A Sub-committee to consider of the Reasons.

Mr. Fuller concurreth.

Sir John Crook and Mr. Baron Bromley : -

The Lords having taken Consideration of the Message delivered by Comm. concerning D. Cowell's ; -

Many Occas. not permitting till Thursday. -

Thursday, the Meeting; the Place, the Painted Chamber ; the same Committees.

Answ. They will be ready, with the same Committees.

Sir Edw. Mountague: - For the Manner, not the Matter. - Not to dispute Honour, nor Conscience, -

In the Ten, nothing fit to contract for. -

Message, that he would be pleased to grow to a Resolution, what to answer, -

That Mr. Speaker may beg Access, with the Lords, and have the Answer from the King himself.

Sir Wm. Strowd, contra: - Not to differ from the Lords.

- To send to the Lords, that we can neither give Support, nor Supply, except the King please to treat.

Mr. Attorney ; - To send Message, when, and in what Form. -

To join with the Lords: - They the aptest: - Between the King and House. -

No Violence, nor Importunity: - Not simply a Conference. -

We speak with the Lords, as between the King and us. -

Acknowlege, that the King had just Reasan to take Time. - The Reasons very weighty. -

Not to rebut the King's Judgment in Honour, Conscience. - That we conceive, in our weak Judgments, to concern Honour. -

No Message till Tomorrow Morning.

Tenures and Wardships.

Mr. Attorney, Mr. Solicitor, Mr. Recorder, Mr. Crewe:

- To pen the Message to the Lords, touching Tenures and Wardships.

Call of the House.

Mr. Martin: - All sent for, without Distinction. -

Reporteth the Proceeding upon Perusal of the Book for calling the House.

Privilege.

Sir James Scudamore's Man, Eustace Parry. - Execution : - Wayte: - Aylesbury Gaol. A Warrant for a Writ of Privilege.

Ryvett.

Mr. Ryvett to be heard with Counsel, upon the second Reading of the Bill. -

Taken by a Latitat, the Sixteenth Day after the last Session.

Days for Committees.

Rivett's Bill: - Wednesday.

Essex : - Tomorrow.

Bailiffs - Bridgenorth: - Tomorrow.

Shipping: - Wednesday.