House of Commons Journal Volume 1
02 March 1621

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1802

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'House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 02 March 1621', Journal of the House of Commons: volume 1: 1547-1629 (1802), pp. 533-535. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=1448 Date accessed: 20 August 2014.


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Veneris, 2o Martii

Woodmongers.

L. 1. - WOODMONGERS.

Maxwell's Petition.

Sir ..... Maxwell's Petition read, but nothing done in it; but referred to the Committee.

Wadham College.

L. 1. An Act for the Confirmation of Wadham College in Oxford.

Ministers Leases.

L. 1. An Act to make Ministers, and other spiritual Persons, capable of Leases of Lands, for the Behoof of their Wives and Children.

Trade.

L. 1. An Act for Liberty of Trade into all Countries.

Recusants.

Recusants. L. 2. An Act of Explanation of a Branch of a Statute in the Third Year. -

Sir Peter Fretchwell: - This Bill Two Ends: 1. To increase his Majesty's Revenues by Recusants Lands: 2ly, To decrease the Number of Recusants. - Good Caution, this extend not to others besides Recusants, - That divers Leases already made by the King, of Recusants Lands, and divers have sold the Inheritance thereof away to others; and thereupon these Leases assigned over for the Benefit of the Purchasers. - That these Leases, thus assigned to those which no Recusants, may be preserved; for this maketh the Leases originally void. - Moveth, the Committee may take a special Care of this.

Mr. Treasurer: - To have an Addition to this Bill, to prevent the undue finding of Offices of Recusants Lands.

Sir James Perrott agreeth with Sir P. Fretchwell, for a Proviso.

Mr. Solicitor: - To have new Bills framed for that moved by Mr. Treasurer. -

Committed to Mr. Treasurer, Sir Edw. Coke, Master of the Wards, Sir Peter Fretchwell, Mr. Solicitor, Sir Cary Reynolds, Mr. Crew, Mr. Tho. Fanshaw, Sir James Perrott, Sir Nath. Rich, Sir Francis Barrington, Sir Ro. Phillippes, Sir Edw. Sands, Sir Rich. Yong, Sir Rich. Gravenor, Mr. Noye, Sir Jo. Strangwayes, Sir Geor. Moore, Sir Edw. Mountague, Sir Jerome Horsey, Sir O. Luke, Sir Francis Goodwyn, Sir Tho. Denton, Sir Tho. Hobby, Sir Tho. Low, Sir Tho. Wentworth, Mr. Carvyll, Mr. Drake, Sir H. Strange, Sir Jo. Bennett: - To-morrow, Two of the Clock, in the Exchequer Chamber.

And this Committee to take into their Consideration all the Frauds, and Deceits, in finding of Inquisitions, or otherwise, in favour of Recusants ; and to frame One or more Bills for Reformation thereof.

Privilege - Warden of the Fleete.

Sir John Jephson: - That my Lord Chancellor and the Master of the Wards gave Sir Jo. Hall and Mr. Fuller Liberty to attend the House, to open their Grievances:

That yet the Warden of the Fleete restraineth Mr. Fuller.

Sir Edw. Sackvyle: - To have the Warden of the Fleete sent for presently : - And, Ordered.

Mr. Finch : - That my Lord Chancellor as much discontented with it as any.

Concealments.

L. 2. An Act for the general Quiet of the Subject against all Pretences of Concealments whatsoever. -

Mr. Crew: - That this Bill only secureth Time past. - Moveth an Addition for the Time to come, as well as for the Time past.

Sir Rich. Gravenor: - No Remedy here for Tythes. 2ly, The Prince hath Jura regalia in Cheshire. - To have the Prince included.

Sir Nath. Rich : - To have this Limitation to Advowsons, and his Majesty's Time to be limited for presenting by Lapse. - To have it limited to 20 Years.

Sir Edw. Coke : - This Bill but the first Draught - Concurreth with Mr. Crew. - An Aspect, as well as a Retrospect. - That Tythes are included in the Words of the now Bill. - To have Advowsons, and presenting by Lapse, to come in a Bill by itself.

Mr. Carvyle -

Master of the Wards: - That the Bills of Grace may be brought in, and read ; One of them, every Day.

Mr. Mallett: - To have the Addition of pleading the general Issue.

Mr. Solicitor: - That the Bills he hath, which are Four, shall be ready; and if - will join with any, the House shall appoint, to prepare the residue.

Mr. Alford: - To hear all Men speak, before the Commitment. -

Committed to Sir Edw. Coke, Sir Rich. Gravenor, Sir Wm. Udall, Mr. Solicitor, Mr. Crew, Sir Jo. Walter, Sir Nath. Rich, Mr. Mallett, Mr. Denny, Sir Edw. Moseley, Attorney of the Wards. Mr. Recorder, Sir Nath. Rich, Mr. Noye, Mr. Hackwill, Mr. Alford, Mr. Glanvyle, Mr. Carvyle, Sir D. Digges, Mr. Drake, Sir Rich. Lovelace, Mr. Brooke, Sir Peter Hayman, Sir Edw. Sackvyle, Sir Francis Barrington : - Upon Monday next, in the Court of Wards, Two of the Clock.

Bills of Grace.

Upon Question, Resolved, This Committee shall consider of the rest of the Bills of Grace, to prepare them for the House.

Money.

Sir Ro. Phillippes moveth, the Matter for Money may be Two Days every Week.

Welsh Cottons, &c.

Moved by divers, to have the Bill for Welch Cottons secondly read.

Mr. Barkeley: - To have the Reading of this Bill deferred. - It concerneth but the Moiety of Two Shires; - and that they have put in a Petition of Grievance, for which Counsel appointed to be heard; and that Time not yet come.

L. 2. An Act for the free Trade and Traffick of Welsh Cloths, Cottons, Frizes, Lynings, and Playnes, in and through the Kingdom of England, &c. - -

Sir Tho. Trevor, - for the Commitment.

Mr. Whitson : - That all besides London, are not restrained ; for he hath ever had Power to carry these Commodities.

Mr. Berkeley: - That Chester, Coventry, and some other Places, have Liberty, as well as Osestrey. That never more Cloth bought and sold than sithence this Order. That this used 2 or 300 Years. - To have buying restrained only to Drapers. - Against Transportation fromWales; for will overthrow many thousand Housholds, except it come to London or Bristow. The King's Alneager is not to run to every petty Town in Wales - Must by the Statute of . . H. IV. -

That this will overthrow the Town of Shrewsbury. -

Moveth, all of Wales, Shrewsbury, &c. who are for the Countries interessed, may be spared from the Committee ; and others to be put in, who are indifferent.

Sir James Perrott: - To have the Bill committed.

Sir Rich. Newport, concurreth with Mr. Barkley. Moveth, Counsel on all Parts shall be heard at the Committee. - Granted.

Mr. Ratcliffe, - for the Committing of the Bill. -

Committed to all the Privy Council of the House, Sir Wm. Strowde, Sir H. Poole, the Knights and Citizens for London, Sir Jo. Brooke, Sir Cary Reynolds, Sir Jo. Trevor, Sir Jo. Hayward, Mr. Brooke, Sir Tho. Wentworth, Sir Ro. Phillippes, Sir Sam. Sands, Mr. Denney, Mr. Drake, Citizens of Yorke, Sir Jo. Strangwayes, Mr. Griffyth, Sir Wm. Herberte, Sir Edw. Sands, Sir Ro. Floyde, all the Knights and Burgesses of Wales, all the Knights and Burgesses - Cheshyre, Shropshyre, and Warwickshire: - Thursday, Two of the Clock, in the Court of Requests.

Grievances - Proceedings against Monperson.

Mr. Hackwill reporteth from the Committee for Sir G. Monperson, that they satisfied of the Heinousness and Horribility of his Offences, by verbal Information of divers Witnesses; That they think fit, these Witnesses should, in Writing, offer to the Committee the Sum thereof.

Offereth in Writing the Sum of the Message.

Message to the Prince.

Sir Nath. Rich : - Sithence the Prince now sitteth in the Upper House, to shew, in our Message, our special Aspect and Respect to him. To have some special Intimation to the Prince in this Particular; both as a Piere and Fautor of the Commonwealth, and as may be a Father hereafter of it.

Sir Ro. Phillippes, contra: So Mr. Glanvyle, Mr. Brooke.

Mr. Brooke: - That this Message not to be delivered in Writing : Is to be only a Direction to the Messenger: Therefore not to question the Words strictly.

Sir Edw. Sackvyle, - against the Word, " Duty;" and would not have it left to the Messenger's Discretion, but restrained. So against the Word, " greatest Interest."

Courts.

Sir Edw. Sackvyle: - from the Committee for Courts. - Hath Cause to fear none.

Hall and Fuller's Case.

The Sub-committee reported the Case of Sir Jo. Hall and Mr. Fuller. - Hall, Committee of a Ward, 9o Jac. informed, on the behalf of the Ward, against Fuller: They demurred; after waved their Demurrer. After many Orders, ordered, 40 l. should be paid Fuller, for his Salary.

Sir Jo. Hall thereupon moved, 28o Febr. for a Dismission ; and had it; with Liberty for them both to sue in any other Court. 1o Julii, Hall took out Process, returnable 5o Julii. In the mean time, upon Fuller's Motion, an Order, Injunction, &c. In the Chancery, Hall grounded his Bill, not by the Ward; so as Two Injunctions in the Country met; One out of the Court of Wards, the other out of the Chancery. Ill Words there given to the Chancery. Both now committed for disobeying the Injunctions. Resolved by the Sub-committee, neither Court had wronged the Jurisdiction each of other; but Sir Jo. Hall had wronged both.

That, upon a Report from the Sub-committee, the Master of the Wards said, One of the Courts had not done justly; and that might be examined. - That he said, the Jurisdiction of Courts not determinable, but enquirable here.

For the Registers; that they use to move Orders, and use Lawyers Names, sometimes those of the contrary Part. - That proved by One Witness, they sometime conceive and make Orders: As in the Case of one Hurdings: Parker's Name used on both Parts; really for One; formally by the other, lending his Name to Churchhill. - That Mr. Hackwyll had his Name used several times last Term, without his Privity. -

That, at the Committee, Eight several Heads offered; l. Bills of Conformity: 2ly, Protection of Sureties: 3ly, Exorbitancy of Fees; 3ly [a]. Delivery out of Execution: -

That Mr. Solicitor moved Three other Things: 1. Some which bought Offices of Receiverships, &c, of purpose to make use of their being Accountants to the King, and so prey upon young Gentlemen: Sheriffs passing of their Accounts, lost them 160l. Not suing their Liveries at their Age of 21 Years: New Offices; Affidavit Office, Auditor's Office; Masters of the Chancery, taking Fees against an Act of Parliament; who delay of Purpose.

For Remedies ; Orders to be entered, by Consent of the Attornies of both Parts. -

That a Lawyer propounded, to have Complaint made to the King, where the Judge erreth in Judgment, or Affection: This especially in the Courts of Equity. As in the Chancery, meddling with Discharge of Tythes, &c. In the Court of Wards, no Travers, where the Law alloweth it before Licence; and must bring in his Evidences into that Court. This contrary to a Statute 1 H. VIII. - Tying Jurors to find upon some Evidence, and not all at large : Nor to be bound over. These to be helped by Admonition.

For the Ministers; to help it by a Law. For the Registers; to have but a short Fee; so will make short Orders, where now long. -

That the Grand Committee resolved to have the said Cause heard, between the Chancery and Court of Wards, by Counsel.

For the Registers; to have a Bill against them.

To have Sub-committees in every Court, to consider what Fees ancient, what encroached in every Court; and the like for Marches of Wales, and Yorke; where many Fees likewise exacted de novo. -

That the Party who hath suffered by the false Order, may be helped by annihilating it.

Mr. Finch: - To have Counsel heard in the House, concerning Sir Jo Halle's Cause. - This the first Cause wherein the Chancery hath clashed with any other Court, sithence the now Lord Chancellor in his Place. - That no Cause for Hall's Suit in Cur' Wardorum.

Master of the Wards: - That One of the Courts have not done well. That the Plague, in the Business, which we will not come near. - The Question only is, whether Hall, or Fuller, have Right.

Sir Tho. Wentworth: - To defer this over till To-morrow.

Mr. Alford: - That a Parliament may meddle with Jurisdictions of Courts. - To defer all this till Monday. - Resolved: - And then to resolve when they will hear Counsel.

Privilege.

Sir Tho. Bellassis moveth, an Order for Stay of Trial, till the next Assises; he being sick, and he a Member of the House. - This Motion made for Sir Rich. Cholmeley.

Hall and Fuller's Case.

Sir H. Withrington: - That the Warden of the Fleete hath taxed, unjustly, a Member of this House.

The Warden of the Fleete to be called in, and to be questioned particularly concerning his imprisoning of Fuller, contrary to the Order of this House; which was, he should have Liberty to instruct his Counsel, with his Man attending him. -

That he hath given Liberty to Hall, and restrained Fuller.

The Warden of the Fleete: - That he gave Liberty, whilst the Matter in Debate before the Committee. -

That Sir Jo. Hall hath made Two Escapes from him, and the Recovery cost Blood: This done without his Privity. - Fuller he restrained, because had no Order for it; but this Day hath given way to both of them to go out.

Being demanded, whether Yesterday he gave any Leave to Sir Jo. Hall to go abroad; denieth; or that he spake with them.

Mr. Warden to give Liberty to them both, to go abroad to solicit,