House of Lords Journal Volume 62
2 April 1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 62: 2 April 1830', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 62: 1830, pp. 188-193. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=16329 Date accessed: 26 July 2014.


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Contents

Die Veneris, 2 Aprilis 1830.
M. of Westmeath v. M. of Salisbury et al. Dillon v. Sir W. Parker. Sir J. Montgomery et al. v. Maxwell. Com rs of Charitable Donations et al. v. Harris et al. Shakerley's Divorce Bill. Liverpool Improvement Bill. Liverpool Docks Bill. Assizes for West Riding of Yorkshire, Petitions for holding, at Wakefield: (Farnley Tyas:) Honley: Shepley: Dalton. East India, &c. Trade, Petitions for opening, referred to East India Com ee: (Pudsey:) Bowling & Bierley: Stanningley: Shipley: Alverthorpe: Swanwick: Hunslet: Gomersall: Soothill: Arbroath. Smugglers Families Maintenance Bill. Suits in Equity Bill. Taylor to enter into a Recog ce on Lindsay's Appeal. Pentland v. Booth & Dickson: Poole to enter into a Recog ce on it. Highgate Grammar School Bill. Brecon, &c. Roads Bill. Carmarthen Roads Bill. Haddenham Inclosure Bill. Radstock Roads Bill. Redcross Road Bill. Tanjore Com rs Bill. Accounts delivered: Wheat imported from Ireland into Great Britain; and into Liverpool: Pilots Fund. Criminal Laws, Petitions for Alteration of: (Liberty of the Tower of London:) Spratton & Creaton: Lewes: Warrington. Fee Fund of the Court of Session, Account of, Ordered. East India Com ee Ramsay to attend. Disabilities of the Jews, Petitions for Removal of: (West of London:) Rochester & Chatham: Southern District of London: Portsmouth. Corporations, &c. Ireland, Petition of T. Flanagan respecting. Hindow Widows, Petitions from Southport & North Meols against the Practice of burning, referred to East India Com ee. Poor Laws, Petition of J. Lawless to extend, to Ireland. Slavery, Petitions for Abolition of, & against the Practice of burning Hindoo Widows: (Mount Zion Chapel, Stoke:) Bethesda Chapel, Shelton: Bethel Chapel, Burslem: Zion Chapel Lane End: Mount Tabor Chapel, Lane-Delph: Ebenezer Chapel, Newcastle under Lyme. East Retford Witnesses Indemnity Bill read 3 a Protest thereupon: Bill passed & sent to H.C. for their Concurrence. Poor Laws (Scotland) Bill. St. Giles & St. George Bloomsbury Vestry Bill, brought from H.C. & read 1 a: Standing Orders Nos. 26 & 155 to be considered on it. Adjourn.

Die Veneris, 2 Aprilis 1830.

DOMINI tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

Ds. Lyndhurst, Cancellarius.
Epus. Londinen.
Epus. Bristol.
Epus. Landaven.
Ds. Clifton.
Ds. Gower.
Ds. Saltoun.
Ds. Napier.
Ds. King.
Ds. Montfort.
Ds. Holland.
Ds. Vernon.
Ds. Ducie.
Ds. Sherborne.
Ds. Auckland.
Ds. Calthorpe.
Ds. Loftus.
Ds. Ellenborough.
Ds. Arden.
Ds. Mont Eagle.
Ds. Hill.
Ds. Melbourne.
Ds. Prudhoe.
Ds. Glenlyon.
Ds. Penshurst.
Ds. Somerhill.
Ds. Farnborough.
Ds. Wharncliffe.
Ds. Seaford.
Ds. Fife.
Ds. Clanwilliam.
Ds. Wallace.
Ds. Wynford.
Comes Bathurst, Præses.
Comes Rosslyn, C. P. S.
Dux Norfolk, Marescallus.
Dux Wellington.
March. Lansdowne.
March. Salisbury.
March. Bute.
Comes Westmorland.
Comes Chesterfield.
Comes Shaftesbury.
Comes Jersey.
Comes Rosebery.
Comes Ferrers.
Comes Stanhope.
Comes Hardwicke.
Comes Carnarvon.
Comes Malmesbury.
Comes Caledon.
Comes Chichester.
Comes Charleville.
Comes Verulam.
Comes Glengall.
Comes Eldon.
Comes Falmouth.
Vicecom. Gordon.
Vicecom. Goderich.

PRAYERS.

M. of Westmeath v. M. of Salisbury et al.

The House (according to Order) proceeded to take into further Consideration the Cause wherein George Thomas John Marquess of Westmeath is Appellant, and James Marquess of Salisbury, and others, are Respondents:

And Consideration being had thereof accordingly;

Ordered, That the further Consideration of the said Cause be put off to the first Day after the Recess at Easter.

Dillon v. Sir W. Parker.

Counsel (according to Order) were called in to be further heard in the Cause wherein John Joseph Dillon Esquire is Appellant, and Sir William Parker Baronet is Respondent:

And the Appellant appearing on his own Behalf;

He was heard further to state and argue his Case.

The Appellant and the Counsel for the Respondent were directed to withdraw.

Ordered, That the further Hearing of the said Cause be put off sine Die.

Sir J. Montgomery et al. v. Maxwell.

After hearing Counsel further in the Cause wherein Sir James Montgomery Baronet, and others, are Appellants, and Mackill Maxwell is Respondent:

It is Ordered, That the further Hearing of the said Cause be put off to Monday next.

Com rs of Charitable Donations et al. v. Harris et al.

Ordered, That the Cause wherein The Commissioners of Charitable Donations, and others, are Appellants, and Thomas Harris, and others, are Respondents, be heard by Counsel at the Bar on Monday next.

Shakerley's Divorce Bill.

The Order of the Day being read for the Second Reading of the Bill, intituled, "An Act to dissolve the Marriage of Charles Peter Shakerley Esquire, of the Parish of Egham, in the County of Surrey, with Laure Angelique Rosalbe Shakerley his now Wife, and to enable him to marry again; and for other Purposes therein mentioned;" and for the Lords to be summoned;

Ordered, That the said Bill be read a Second Time on Monday next, and that the Lords be summoned; and that the Witnesses who were ordered to attend do then attend.

Liverpool Improvement Bill.

Hodie 2a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for the better Paving and Sewerage of the Town of Liverpool, in the County Palatine of Lancaster; and for settling the Boundaries between the said Town and the Township of Kirkdale and Parts of the Townships of Everton and West Derby."

Ordered, That the said Bill be committed to the Consideration of the Lords following:

L. Bp. London.
L. Bp. Bristol.
L. Bp. Landaff.
L. Clifton.
L. Gower.
L. Saltoun.
L. Napier.
L. King.
L. Montfort.
L. Holland.
L. Vernon.
L. Ducie.
L. Sherborne.
L. Auckland.
L. Calthorpe.
L. Loftus.
L. Ellenborough.
L. Arden.
L. Mont Eagle.
L. Hill.
L. Melbourne.
L. Prudhoe.
L. Glenlyon.
L. Penshurst.
L. Somerhill.
L. Farnborough.
L. Wharncliffe.
L. Seaford.
L. Fife.
L. Clanwilliam.
L. Wallace.
L. Wynford.
L. President.
L. Privy Seal.
D. Norfolk.
D. Wellington.
M. Lansdowne.
M. Salisbury.
M. Bute.
E. Westmorland.
E. Chesterfield.
E. Shaftesbury.
E. Jersey.
E. Rosebery.
E. Ferrers.
E. Stanhope.
E. Hardwicke.
E. Carnarvon.
E. Malmesbury.
E. Caledon.
E. Chichester.
E. Charleville.
E. Verulam.
E. Glengall.
E. Eldon.
E. Falmouth.
V. Gordon.
V. Goderich.

Their Lordships, or any Five of them, to meet on Monday next, at Ten o'Clock in the Forenoon, in the Prince's Lodgings, near the House of Peers; and to adjourn as they please.

Liverpool Docks Bill.

Hodie 2a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for extending and amending the several Acts relating to the Docks and Harbour of Liverpool."

Ordered, That the said Bill be committed to the Consideration of the Lords Committees aforenamed.

Their Lordships, or any Five of them, to meet on the same Day, at the same Place; and to adjourn as they please.

Assizes for West Riding of Yorkshire, Petitions for holding, at Wakefield: (Farnley Tyas:)

Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitants of the Township of Farnley Tyas, in the West Riding of the County of York, whose Names are thereunto subscribed:

Honley:

Also, Upon reading the Petition of the Clergy, Gentry, Freeholders, Merchants and others, Inhabitants of the Township of Honley, in the West Riding of the County of York, whose Names are thereunto subscribed:

Shepley:

Also, Upon reading the Petition of the Clergy, Gentry, Freeholders, Merchants and others, Inhabitants of the Township of Shepley, in the West Riding of the County of York, whose Names are thereunto subscribed:

Dalton.

Also, Upon reading the Petition of the Clergy, Gentry, Freeholders, Merchants and others, Inhabitants of the Township of Dalton, in the West Riding of the County of York, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; severally praying their Lordships, "That the Assizes and General Gaol Delivery for the Business of the West Riding of the County of York may in future be held at Wakefield:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petitions do lie on the Table.

East India, &c. Trade, Petitions for opening, referred to East India Com ee: (Pudsey:)

Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitants of the Clothing District of Pudsey, in the County of York, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships, "That, on the Expiration of The East India Company's Charter, the Petitioners and the rest of His Majesty's Subjects may enjoy a free Trade with China, and the Right of settling and trading in the Interior of India:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Ordered, That the said Petition be referred to the Select Committee appointed to enquire into the present State of the Affairs of The East India Company, and into the Trade between Great Britain, the East Indies and China.

Bowling & Bierley:

Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitants of the Clothing District of Bowling and Bierley, in the County of York, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships, "That The East India Company's Trade Monopoly may be abolished:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Ordered, That the said Petition be referred to the lastmentioned Committee.

Stanningley:

Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitants of the Clothing District of Stanningley, in the County of York, whose Names are thereunto subscribed:

Shipley:

And also, Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitants of the Clothing District of Shipley, in the County of York, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; severally praying their Lordships, "That the Trade between this Country, China and the Interior of India, may be completely opened to the Enterprize, Skill and Industry of all British Subjects, without Distinction or Reservation:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Ordered, That the said Petition be referred to the lastmentioned Committee.

Alverthorpe:

Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitants of the Clothing District of Alverthorpe, in the County of York, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships, "That the Monopoly heretofore granted to the Chartered Company of Merchants trading to the East Indies may no longer interfere with the General Interests of His Majesty's Subjects, both in this Country and in India:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Ordered, That the said Petition be referred to the lastmentioned Committee.

Swanwick:

Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitants of Swanwick, in the County of Derby, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying, "That such Regulations may be adopted by the Wisdom of their Lordships as may be the Means of promoting a free Commercial Competition among all Classes of His Majesty's Subjects; and that they may be admitted to the full Exercise of their Rights to a Trade with the Empire of China, and all other Countries of the East; thus advancing the Prosperity and Welfare of all Parts of the British Dominions:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Ordered, That the said Petition be referred to the lastmentioned Committee.

Hunslet:

Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitants of the Clothing District of Hunslet, in the County of York, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships "to grant the Right of trading and settling in all the British Settlements East of the Cape of Good Hope, as well as a Free Trade to China, to the Petitioners and all others of His Majesty's Subjects:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Ordered, That the said Petition be referred to the lastmentioned Committee.

Gomersall:

Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitants of the Clothing District of Gomersall, in the County of York, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying, "That their Lordships will not renew The East India Company's exclusive Privileges of Trade, without the clearest and most unanswerable Proof that they directly promote the Benefit of His Majesty's Subjects in general, and that to refuse to renew them would be an Injury to the Nation at large:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Ordered, That the said Petition be referred to the lastmentioned Committee.

Soothill:

Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitants of the Clothing District of Soothill, in the County of York, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships, "That a Free Trade with China, and the Right of trading and settling in the Interior of India, may be granted to the Petitioners:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Ordered, That the said Petition be referred to the lastmentioned Committee.

Arbroath.

Upon reading the Petition of the Magistrates and Town Council of the Royal Burgh of Arbroath, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships, "That when the great Question of opening the Trade between Great Britain, the East Indies and China, shall be submitted to their Consideration, they will dispose of it in such a Way as may satisfy the Wishes and the Wants of the People:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Ordered, That the said Petition be referred to the lastmentioned Committee.

Smugglers Families Maintenance Bill.

Hodie 2a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for the Relief of Parishes from the Expences of maintaining the Wives and Families of Men convicted under the Laws for the Prevention of Smuggling, and sentenced to serve His Majesty in His Naval Service."

Ordered, That the said Bill be committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

Ordered, That the House be put into a Committee upon the said Bill on Monday next.

Suits in Equity Bill.

The Order of the Day being read for the Second Reading of the Bill, intituled, "An Act for further facilitating the Administration of Justice in Suits and other Proceedings in Equity;"

The said Bill was accordingly read a Second Time.

Ordered, That the said Bill be committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

Ordered, That the House be put into a Committee upon the said Bill on Monday next.

Taylor to enter into a Recog ce on Lindsay's Appeal.

The House being moved, "That James Moody Taylor of Fen Court, Fenchurch Street, in the City of London, Gentleman, may be permitted to enter into a Recognizance for William Lindsay, on account of his Appeal depending in this House, he living in Scotland:"

It is Ordered, That the said James Moody Taylor may enter into a Recognizance for the said Appellant, as desired.

Pentland v. Booth & Dickson:

Upon reading the Petition and Appeal of George Pentland, some time Coachmaker, now residing in Perth, in Scotland; complaining of Three Interlocutors of the Lord Ordinary in Scotland, of the 23d of June and 16th of December 1829, and 19th of January 1830; and also of an Interlocutor of the Lords of Session there, of the Second Division, of the 5th December 1829; and praying, "That the same may be reversed, varied or altered, or that the Appellant may have such Relief in the Premises, as to this House, in their Lordships great Wisdom, shall seem meet; and that James Booth and Walter Dickson may be required to answer the said Appeal:"

It is Ordered, That the said James Booth and Walter Dickson may have a Copy of the said Appeal, and do put in their Answer or respective Answers thereunto, in Writing, on or before Friday the 30th Day of this instant April; and Service of this Order upon the said Respondents, or upon any one of their known Agents in the Court of Session in Scotland, shall be deemed good Service.

Poole to enter into a Recog ce on it.

The House being moved, "That George Woolley Poole, of Southampton Street, Bloomsbury, in the County of Middlesex, Gentleman, may be permitted to enter into a Recognizance for George Pentland, on account of his Appeal depending in this House, he residing in Scotland:"

It is Ordered, That the said George Woolley Poole may enter into a Recognizance for the said Appellant, as desired.

Highgate Grammar School Bill.

The Earl of Shaftesbury reported from the Lords Committees, to whom the Bill, intituled, "An Act to enable the Wardens and Governors of the Possessions, Revenues and Goods of the Free Grammar School of Sir Roger Cholmeley Knight, in Highgate, to pull down their present Chapel, and to contribute towards the Erection of a new Chapel or Church in Highgate; and for other Purposes," was committed; "That they had considered the said Bill, and examined the Allegations thereof, which were found to be true; that the Parties concerned had given their Consents to the Satisfaction of the Committee; and that the Committee had gone through the Bill, and made several Amendments thereto."

Which Amendments, being read Twice by the Clerk, were agreed to by the House.

Ordered, That the said Bill, with the Amendments, be ingrossed.

Brecon, &c. Roads Bill.

The Earl of Shaftesbury reported from the Lords Committees, to whom the Bill, intituled, "An Act for more effectually repairing and improving several Roads in the Counties of Brecon, Radnor and Glamorgan; and for making and maintaining several new Branches of Road to communicate therewith," was committed; That they had considered the said Bill, and examined the Allegations thereof, which were found to be true; and that the Committee had gone through the Bill, and directed him to report the same to the House, without any Amendment."

Carmarthen Roads Bill.

The Earl of Shaftesbury made the like Report from the Lords Committees, to whom the Bill, intituled, "An Act for more effectually maintaining and repairing several Roads from Carmarthen to Lampeterpontstephen, so far as relates to the Carmarthen District of Roads, and certain other Roads in the said County of Carmarthen," was committed.

Haddenham Inclosure Bill.

The Earl of Shaftesbury reported from the Lords Committees, to whom the Bill, intituled, "An Act for inclosing Lands and extinguishing Tythes in the Parish of Haddenham, in the County of Buckingham," was committed; "That they had considered the said Bill, and examined the Allegations thereof, which were found to be true; that the Parties concerned had given their Consents to the Satisfaction of the Committee; and that the Committee had gone through the Bill, and made some Amendments thereto."

The said Amendments were read by the Clerk as follow; (viz t.)

"Pr. 126. L. 3. After ("exchanged") insert Clause (A.)

"Clause (A.) Provided always, and be it further enacted, That nothing in this Act contained shall extend or be construed to extend to empower the said Commissioners to exonerate from Tithes any Lands or Grounds in the Parish, Chapelry or Township of Cuddington."

"L. 12. & 13. Leave out ("with Cuddington")

And the said Amendments, being read a Second Time, were agreed to by the House.

Radstock Roads Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Lord Francis Osborne and others;

With a Bill, intituled, "An Act for more effectually repairing and otherwise improving several Roads from Radstock to Buckland Dinham, Kilmersdon, Babington and Hallastrow, and from Norton Down to Norton Saint Philip, in the County of Somerset;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

Redcross Road Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Alexander Grant and others;

With a Bill, intituled, "An Act for maintaining the Road from Haverhill, in the County of Suffolk, to Redcross, in the Parish of Great Shelford, in the County of Cambridge;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

Tanjore Com rs Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Alexander Grant and others;

With a Bill, intituled, "An Act to continue an Act of the Fifth Year of His present Majesty, for enabling the Commissioners acting in Execution of an Agreement made between The East India Company and the private Creditors of the late Rajah of Tanjore the better to carry the same into Effect;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

The said Three Bills were, severally, read the First Time.

Accounts delivered:

The House being informed, "That Mr. Charles Crafer, from the Treasury, attended;"

He was called in; and delivered at the Bar, pursuant to Orders of the 5th and 25th Days of March last,

Wheat imported from Ireland into Great Britain; and into Liverpool:

"An Account of the Quantities of Wheat imported from Ireland into Great Britain in each Week; specifying into what Port, from the 15th July 1828 to the latest Period:"

And also, "An Account of the Weekly Imports into the Port of Liverpool of Wheat from Ireland or Coastwise, from the 5th July 1828 to the 5th January 1830."

And then he withdrew.

And the Titles thereof being read by the Clerk;

Ordered, That the said Accounts do lie on the Table.

Ordered, That the said Accounts be printed.

The House being informed, "That Mr. Berthon, from the Trinity House, attended;"

He was called in; and delivered at the Bar, pursuant to the Directions of an Act of Parliament,

Pilots Fund.

"Account of the Receipt and Appropriation of the Pilots Fund of the Corporation of Trinity House of Deptford Strond, distinguishing the several Sources of Income and Heads of Expenditure, in the Year ending 31st December 1829."

And then he withdrew.

And the Title thereof being read by the Clerk;

Ordered, That the said Account do lie on the Table.

Criminal Laws, Petitions for Alteration of: (Liberty of the Tower of London:)

Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitant Householders of the Liberty of His Majesty's Tower of London, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships "to substitute, for the adequate Protection of Property, other Penalties than that of Death for Offences against it, adapted to the enlightened Age in which we live, worthy of a Christian Country, and which, by being accordant with Public Feeling, shall become more certain of Infliction, by the uniform Co-operation of the Court, the Prosecutor, Witnesses and Jury:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Spratton & Creaton:

Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitants of the adjoining Parishes of Spratton and Creaton, in the County of Northampton, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships "to make all necessary and useful Alterations in the Criminal Code of these Realms, which is marked with peculiar Severity and Inconsistency in punishing with Death Crimes which are comparatively of small Magnitude:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Lewes:

Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitants of the Town of Lewes and its Vicinity, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships "to make such a Revision of the Penal Code as shall render the Punishment of Death less frequent, and substitute other Punishments more in accordance with the legitimate Objects of Criminal Law and the Spirit of Christianity:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Warrington.

Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitants of the Town and Neighbourhood of Warrington, in the County of Lancaster, whose Names are thereunto subscribed, praying their Lordships, "That all such Parts of the existing Laws respecting Forgery as affix the Penalty of Death may be repealed:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Fee Fund of the Court of Session, Account of, Ordered.

Ordered, That there be laid before this House, "An Account of the Fee Fund of the Court of Session in Scotland, established by the 50th Geo. 3. C. 112.; shewing the Receipts from the Fund, and the Application thereof, from 21st June 1821."

East India Com ee Ramsay to attend.

Ordered, That The Honorable Andrew Ramsay do attend this House on Monday next, to be sworn, in order to his being examined as a Witness before the Select Committee appointed to enquire into the present State of the Affairs of The East India Company, and into the Trade between Great Britain, the East Indies and China.

Disabilities of the Jews, Petitions for Removal of: (West of London:)

Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitants of the West of London, professing the Jewish Religion, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships "to pass the Bill before Parliament for the Purpose of admitting the Jews to all the Rights and Privileges of free-born British Subjects; to all Corporate Offices and Franchises and Freedom; the Right to purchase, sell, transfer and enjoy Property of every Kind, without Fear or Molestation; and to all Civil Offices, upon their taking the requisite Oaths on the Old Testament only, which, in fact, can be looked upon as their only solemn and binding Pledge:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Rochester & Chatham:

Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitants of Rochester and Chatham, professing the Jewish Religion, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships "to pass the Bill before Parliament for the Purpose of admitting the Jews to all the Privileges of free-born Subjects into a Law:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Southern District of London:

Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitants of the Southern District of London, professing the Jewish Religion, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships "to grant the Jews equal Rights and Privileges with all other British Subjects upon their taking the necessary Oaths on the Old Testament only:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Portsmouth.

Upon reading the Petition of the Jews residing in the Borough of Portsmouth, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying, "That their Lordships will be pleased to take their Case into Consideration, and to grant them such Relief from the Disabilities to which they are subject as to their Lordships shall seem meet:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Corporations, &c. Ireland, Petition of T. Flanagan respecting.

Upon reading the Petition of Thomas Flanagan Gentleman, praying their Lordships "to repeal the Law of the 21st Year of the Reign of George the Second, authorizing Non-resident Protestants to become Members and Freemen of the respective Corporate Towns in Ireland, not being Cities; to extend to Ireland the Law of the 32d Year of the Reign of George the Third, the Requisitions of which compel the proper Officer to exhibit for Inspection the Corporation Books; and to enquire into the Corporation and Crown Lands of Ireland:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Hindow Widows, Petitions from Southport & North Meols against the Practice of burning, referred to East India Com ee.

Upon reading the Petition of the Members of the Church and Congregation assembling for Divine Worship in the Independent Chapel, Southport, Lancashire, whose Names are thereunto subscribed:

And also, Upon reading the Petition of the Members of the Independent Church and Congregation assembling for Divine Worship in their Chapel at Church Town, North Meols, Lancashire, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; severally praying their Lordships, "That such Measures may be adopted as will effectually put a Stop to the burning of Widows, the Destruction of Infants by their Parents, and the Perpetration of Murder in every other Form throughout His Majesty's Asiatic Possessions; and that, in such Measures as may be deemed advisable to regulate the future Intercourse of British Subjects with India and China, nothing may be done which shall in any Degree restrain the Efforts of Christian Enterprize in conveying the Knowledge of Christianity to the Natives of China; and that every possible Facility may be granted to its peaceable Spread in every Part of the British Dominions in India:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petitions do lie on the Table.

Ordered, That the said Petitions be referred to the Select Committee appointed to enquire into the present State of the Affairs of The East India Company, and into the Trade between Great Britain, the East Indies and China.

Poor Laws, Petition of J. Lawless to extend, to Ireland.

Upon reading the Petition of John Lawless, residing in the City of Dublin, praying their Lordships "to extend to Ireland the Blessings of the Principle of the Poor Laws of England, administered as they have long been by the religious, moral and enlightened People of Scotland:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Slavery, Petitions for Abolition of, & against the Practice of burning Hindoo Widows: (Mount Zion Chapel, Stoke:) Bethesda Chapel, Shelton:

Upon reading the Petition of the Protestant Dissenters worshipping at Mount Zion Chapel, Stoke, in the Staffordshire Potteries, whose Names are thereunto subscribed:

Also, Upon reading the Petition of the Protestant Dissenters worshipping at Bethesda Chapel, Shelton, in the Staffordshire Potteries, whose Names are thereunto subscribed:

Bethel Chapel, Burslem:

Also, Upon reading the Petition of the Protestant Dissenters worshipping at Bethel Chapel, Burslem, in the Staffordshire Potteries, whose Names are thereunto subscribed:

Zion Chapel Lane End:

Also, Upon reading the Petition of the Protestant Dissenters worshipping at Zion Chapel, Lane-End, in the Staffordshire Potteries, whose Names are thereunto subscribed:

Mount Tabor Chapel, Lane-Delph:

Also, Upon reading the Petition of the Protestant Dissenters worshipping at Mount Tabor Chapel, LaneDelph, in the Staffordshire Potteries, whose Names are thereunto subscribed:

Ebenezer Chapel, Newcastle under Lyme.

And also, Upon reading the Petition of the Protestant Dissenters worshipping at Ebenezer Chapel, in the Borough of Newcastle under Lyme, in the County of Stafford, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; severally praying, "That their Lordships will take the Case of the Slaves into their earliest and most earnest Consideration, and that they will not permit any Motives of mere Expediency to turn them from imparting the Justice required at their Hands, by bringing about their Freedom in the most wise, speedy and effectual Manner;" and further severally praying, "That their Lordships will not overlook the Case of the unhappy Females in British India who are daily sacrificed on the Funeral Pile of their deceased Husbands, the Victims of a Delusion as cruel as it frequently is mercenary; and that their Lordships will be pleased to interpose their Authority, so that this inhuman Practice may be speedily and for ever abolished:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petitions do lie on the Table.

East Retford Witnesses Indemnity Bill read 3 a

The Order of the Day being read for the Third Reading of the Bill, intituled, "An Act to indemnify Witnesses who may give Evidence, before the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, on a Bill to prevent Bribery and Corruption in the Election of Burgesses to serve in Parliament for the Borough of East Retford;" and for the Lords to be summoned;

It was moved, "That the said Bill be now read the Third Time."

Which being objected to;

It was moved "to leave out ("now") and insert ("on the 27th of April")."

After short Debate,

The Question was put, "Whether the Word ("now") shall stand Part of the Motion?"

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

Protest thereupon:

"DISSENTIENT:

"1st.-Because the Provisions of the Bill presuppose an Insufficiency of Evidence, and the consequent Necessity of resorting to extraordinary Means to procure it, in the Matter of a Bill lately brought up from the Commons, and intituled, "An Act to prevent Bribery and Corruption in the Election of Burgesses to serve in Parliament for the Borough of East Retford;" whereas the Decision of the other House of Parliament, founded, first, upon the Report of a Tribunal appointed by Act of Parliament to try Elections, and armed with all necessary Powers for that Purpose, and, secondly, upon the Result of their own Enquiries, raises a reasonable Presumption, at least, that Grounds sufficient to enable us to come to a sound Determination on the Legislative Measure before the House may be obtained without a special Suspension of the ordinary Rules of Evidence, and an anomalous Purchase of Truth by an Extension of Impunity to Offenders.

"2nd.-Because the Recourse to such a preliminary Act of Power, for the Purpose of procuring Evidence, implies, (and the Preamble directly asserts,) before any Petition has been presented to this House against the East Retford Bill, that an Examination of Witnesses at the Bar is absolutely necessary, and thereby sanctions a Notion, in my Opinion erroneous, mischievous and unconstitutional, namely, that the Bill that has lately passed the House of Commons, and all other Measures of a like Nature, are Bills of Pains and Penalties, partaking of a Judicial Character, and requiring all that special and cautious Regard to legal Forms which distinguishes this House in the Discharge of its Judicial Functions, and which it wisely and mercifully extends to such Legislative Acts as pronounce Sentence or inflict Punishment, as well as to such as decide between Parties applying for the Interference of the Legislature, their respective Properties and Rights: But a Bill of Regulation for the Purpose of preventing Bribery and Corruption, and preserving the Purity of Representation in the Commons House of Parliament, is not ex vi termini either a Private Bill or a Bill of Pains and Penalties, and may consequently be adopted by Parliament consistently with Reason and Usage, on a Moral Conviction of its Justice, Necessity or Expediency, without subjecting the Facts or Considerations which lead to its Adoption to legal Proof at the Bar of the House.

"The Privilege vested by Charter in any Corporation to send Members to Parliament appears to me a Trust and not a Property. The Individual elected in virtue of such Privileges, though the immediate Delegate of his Constituents, is, according to the Maxims of our Constitution, a Member of the Supreme Legislature of the Empire, invested with a Share of the Representation of the People at large, for whose Benefit he is bound to exercise his Functions. It follows, that the Right of choosing such a Representative, when conferred by any Instrument or Usage on any separate Body of Men, is a Trust confided to that Body of Men for the Benefit and Advantage of the whole Community. If, therefore, that Trust be so administered as notoriously to defeat the Objects for which it was created, and, by polluting the Sources from whence one Branch of the Legislature is supplied, to lower the Character and impair the Authority of The House of Commons, the Parliament is justified, by Reason and Analogy, in proceeding, on such Moral Conviction as guides it in every other Measure of Regulation or Reform, to revoke, limit, enlarge or transfer that Trust in the Way and to the Extent which it deems most conducive to the Advantage of the Community.

"The most sacred and important Trust which by Law can be reposed in Human Authority, namely, the Crown itself, has been repeatedly in our History limited, regulated and transferred by the King, Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, without any minute and Juridical Investigation of Facts, and without that Attention to technical Rules and cautious Forms which properly distinguish our Judicial Proceedings, but are utterly inapplicable and would be inconvenient in those which have for their Object the moulding a Government to the Exigencies and Interests of the Governed. On the same Principles, the Persons and Places entitled to vote by themselves or their Representatives in the Scottish Parliament, before the Union with that Kingdom, had those Privileges regulated, curtailed, modified or suppressed by a Legislative Act, without any legal Proof of Delinquency or any Judicial Investigation of the Nature and Extent of such Privileges, or of the Manner in which they had been exercised. The Legislative Union with Ireland also deprived the Majority of the Irish Peers of their Votes in the House of Lords, and no inconsiderable Number of Boroughs of their Right to send Burgesses to Parliament; and although certain Compensations were granted to the latter, neither the Preamble of the Legislative Act so depriving them of Privileges, or compensating them for the Loss, nor the Grounds which induced the Parliament to pass it, were subjected to legal Proof. More recently, a large Body of Freeholders, entitled by Common and by Statute Law to vote for Knights of the Shire in that Kingdom, have been deprived by an Act of Parliament of that Privilege; and the said Act of Parliament, so far from being subjected to such Judicial Proceedings as usually attend Private Bills or Bills of Pains and Penalties in this House, passed the Legislature without admitting the Petitioners against it to be heard by themselves or their Counsel, or to adduce Evidence against the Allegations of the Preamble in either House of Parliament. Concurring, therefore, with the greatest Constitutional Authority that ever sat in this House, Lord Somers, that "there are many Things plain and evident, beyond the Testimony of any Witnesses, which yet can never be proved in a legal Way," I was unwilling, by Inference, to sanction a Principle which would fetter the Functions of this House in the Exercise of our Legislative Discretion and Authority, and confine our Power of regulating and reforming Abuses in the Representation to such Cases only as are susceptible of strict legal Proof.

"3rd.-Because, if the House of Lords were to establish the Practice of Proceeding usual in Private Bills or in Bills of Pains and Penalties, as indispensable in Bills of Regulation and Reform in Matters of Election, great Delay would ensue, and various Impediments be thrown in the Way of such wholesome Reforms as the Lapse of Time and the Exigencies of the Country are likely to require; and such Impediment originating in Scruples of this House, warranted by neither Reason, Analogy nor Example, would be highly injurious to the Character of this House, as well as to the Progress of sound Improvement and wholesome Legislation in the Country.

"Vassall Holland."

Then the said Bill was read the Third Time.

Bill passed & sent to H.C. for their Concurrence.

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Mr. Farrer and Sir Giffin Wilson;

To carry down the said Bill, and desire their Concurrence thereto.

Poor Laws (Scotland) Bill.

Ordered, That the Bill, intituled, "An Act for the better Regulation and more strict Administration of the Poor Laws in Scotland," be read a Second Time on Tuesday the 27th of this instant April; and that the Lords be summoned.

St. Giles & St. George Bloomsbury Vestry Bill, brought from H.C. & read 1 a:

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Lord John Russell and others;

With a Bill, intituled, "An Act for the better Regulation of the Affairs of the joint Parishes of Saint Giles in the Fields and Saint George Bloomsbury, in the County of Middlesex, and of the separate Parishes of Saint Giles in the Fields and Saint George Bloomsbury, in the same County," to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

The said Bill was read the First Time.

Standing Orders Nos. 26 & 155 to be considered on it.

Ordered, That the Standing Orders Nos. 26 and 155, relative to Bills not being read or proceeded in Twice the same Day, be taken into Consideration on Monday next, in order to their being dispensed with on the lastmentioned Bill; and that the Lords be summoned.

Adjourn.

Dominus Cancellarius declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Lunæ, quintum diem instantis Aprilis, horâ decimâ Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.