Veneris, 14o Die Martii
2. Reading: - FOR the better Conforming of Recusants, their Wives, Children, and Servants, to the true Religion, &c. - And committed to the great general Committee.
Obedience of Subjects.
2. Reading: - B. For the better Preservation of the King's Majesty's Subjects in their due Obedience: -
Committed to the general Committee for the Course of proceeding against Seminaries, Jesuits, &c. - To-morrow, Parliament-house.
Mr. James of the Isle of Wight: - That the Articles - That it will exasperate the Papists.
Sir Fr. Hastings bringeth in the Bill for restoring of deprived Ministers, with Alteration of the Title; the Amendments read; and, upon a Motion made by Mr. Yelverton, declaring, that there was some Course taken for helping of the Intention of the Bill; and so the Bill stayed, by Order, from Question.
Sir Rob. Hitcham: - For Addition to the Subsidy already offered. -
Before we knew any thing, we offered Two. __
After we knew the King's Wants, to do something more.
Against Fifteens, -
Then shall do we [a] contrary to that we have spoken. -
A Question, Whether Two Subsidies, and no Fifteens.
Mr. Peak : - That the King's Wants might no more be mentioned,
Mr. Holt: - That a Subsidy is a public Contribution not to be employed to private Use, Bounties, Expences, Ceremonies.
Better to search into all Countries, to try all Ways than to dive into the Subjects Purse. -
This Proposition most dangerous; therefore that it may be the last, and forborn. - Against the Question at this Time.
Sir Rob. Johnson: - He knows somewhat more than others, but will not discover it. - For the Proportion, he will leave it to the House.
Sir Geo. Moore: - Locutio incauta leads into Danger: -
Silentium indiscretum leaves Men in Error : - Vae mihi, quia tacui. -
He that will have the Love of the People, must allow them Panem et Circenses; Bread and Sports.
The King, as a good King, to do what he will: - As a Father. - People to do as much as they may, with Duty.
Not to spare Fifteens. -
The Corporate Towns only against Fifteens; the general not against them.
Sir Wm. Skipwith: - Every Man lay his Hand upon his Heart, remember the Place, from whence he comes, and give according to his Conscience.
Sir Wm. Morrice: - His Majesty's gracious Message did undo all.
One Subsidy for the Fens. -
Four Subsidies and Eight Ffteens.
Mr. James : - Urgeth the Reason of Monopolies : -
Writing by the King to hinder the Course of Justice. -
Two Subsidies, and Four Fifteens.
Sir Wm. Paddye: - That a just King must not take unjust Courses. -
The Head must not exhaust the vital Spirits. -
A Question, whether Subsidy, or no.
Sir H. Poole: - What will not Need do? what will not Importunity do ? -
Satisfy the King for our own Sakes.
Sir Henry Hubbard: - Taxeth the Imputation of Flattery by Sir Wm. Skipwith : - Despiseth it: - Not worthy Answer.
How Things stood at the King's coming, how at this present. - 130,000l. - 280,000l. and more. -
The Charge of the Army in Ireland, 360,000 l. - 200,000l. in Ireland, - 60,000l. to London. -
30,000l. To Horatio Palevicini, to the State of Genua. -
60,000l. in Exchange of base Coin. - The King must needs give Recompence to his Servants, upon his Arrival to the Crown. -
Scotland no Access : - Not sufficient for itself, and for the King: - Engaged yet for Debts due there.
Sir Tho. Shirley: - Because it goes not out of the Country.
Mr. Noy: - It goes from the Poor to the Rich; therefore no Motive. -
The Soldiers of Ireland came the last Parliament with Petition for Relief. -
No more, but that, which proceeded from us as a Gift; - not for Wants.
28 H. VI. then the King in Debt 350,000l. - as much as 700,000 l. in Bullion at this Time. - The King demanded a Subsidy, because his Exitus was more than his Introitus, by 19,000 l. - The Subjects answered, what by Takings excessive, &c, they were near destroyed. - They gave One: - And more, we give Two; - We are equal.
Sir Rob. Drury: A Necessity to grant more.
Sir Tho. Holcroft: Parl. 28 H. VI. set on by the Duke of York, to disgrace his Master with his Subjects :
The Consequence, Civil War.
The 3l. Men have no Grievance. Mr. Dyett: - In H. VI. Time the Exactions upon the Subjects Cause of that, which followed.
Mr. Bowyer: R. II. a great Subsidy. - 13 E. III. tenth Sheaf, &c.
Mr. Solicitor : The Necessity of the State, the Poverty of the People, indifferently.
The last Christian Emperor of the East, when he was persecuted, all his Treasure in the Subjects Purses: - Ensued the Loss of his Empire, and the Subjects Liberty.
Sir Antho. Cope: - That because many good Bills are in the House, and more will come : - Many Grievances to be redressed: - First the Grievances, and then the Subsidy.
Sir Edw. Grevill * * * *
Mr. Martin: - That Grievances first.
Mr. Wyseman: - The same.
Mr. Recorder: - 140,000l. engaged to the City of London. -
76,140l. One Subsidy. -
Whether Two Subsidies alone; or One Subsidy, and Two Fifteens.
Mr. Speaker: - Q. Whether to add any thing to the former: - How much to add.
Sir Edwyn Sandys: - That which we have given, Two Commendations : - Freely, without One Voice contradicting. -
Of Love, and not for Want.
Mr. Rainscroft * * * *
Sir John Savill: - Many Means more will be propounded, if we voluntarily offer this.
Sir John Hollice : - To stay the Proceeding to Question at this Time,
Sir William Skipwith * * * *
Mr. Speaker : - Quest. whether presently to be put to the Question.
To be deferred : - Upon the Noe.