House of Commons Journal Volume 8
10 September 1660

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1802

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'House of Commons Journal Volume 8: 10 September 1660', Journal of the House of Commons: volume 8: 1660-1667 (1802), pp. 160-163. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=26289 Date accessed: 21 October 2014.


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Monday, September 10th, 1660.

Prayers.

Disbanding the Army, &c.

A MESSAGE from the Lords, by Dr. Hobart and * *, Masters of Chancery;

Mr. Speaker, The Lords desire the Concurrence of this House, to the Act for disbanding of the Army; with some Amendments:

They likewise commanded me to return the Bill for the Seventy thousand Pounds:

I am commanded likewise to acquaint you, that they have, according to the Desire of the Commons, sent a noble Peer to his Majesty, to desire his Majesty's Leave for the Houses sitting a Day longer: To which his Majesty consents; and hath further signified, that he will be in Person To-morrow, in the House of Peers; to give his Royal Assent to the Acts that shall be prepared.

The Amendments, sent from the Lords, to the Act for disbanding of the Army and Garisons of this Kingdom, were read; and after read in Parts.

The 1st Amendment, 1 Skin, 3d Line, read; instead of the Word "where," read "were;" which was agreed.

The 2d Amendment, viz. 1st Skin, between the 13th and 14th Lines, add these Words "his Royal Highness the Duke of Yorke, the Duke of Albemarle, the Lord Great Chamberlain, the Lord Steward, the Earl of Leicester, and the Lord Roberts," was read; and, on the Question, agreed unto.

The next Amendment, 1st Skin, 15 Line, after the Word "them," and before the Word "shall," put in these Words "whereof one of the Commissioners named by the House of Lords, and one of the Commissioners named by the House of Commons, to be two," was read; and, on the Question, agreed unto.

The next Amendment, between the 22th and 23th Line, after the Word "them," in the 22th Line, and before the Word "and," in the 23th Line, add "as aforesaid," was read; and agreed unto.

The next Amendment, viz. in the last Line of the First Instruction, after the Word "disbanded," add these Words "yet so as the Regiments and Companies that lie in fortified Garisons be not disbanded, till their Royal Highnesses, the Duke of Yorke, and the Duke of Gloucester's Regiments, and the Duke of Albemarle's Regiments, be first disbanded," was read; and committed to Colonel King, Mr. Boscawen, Colonel Birch, Mr. Swinfin, Mr. Serjeant Hales, Sir Henage Finch, Sir George Downing, Mr. Bampfeild, Mr. Holles, Mr. Annesley, Sir Anthony Ashley Cooper, Colonel Morley: Who are forthwith to withdraw, and word the same according to the Sense of this House on the present Debate.

The next Amendment, in the 10th Line of the Second Instruction, after the Word "due," and before the Word "before," add the Words "and payable," was read; and, on the Question, agreed unto.

The next Amendment, in the Interlineation of the Third Instruction, after the Word "their," and before the Word "Highnesses," insert the Word "Royal:" was read; and agreed unto.

The next Amendment, at the End of the Third Instruction, add these Words, "of the Field Army," was read:

Ordered, That this Amendment be committed to the same Committee as the former Amendment.

The next Amendment, in the Fourth Instruction, 2d and 3d Lines, after the Word "Speed," leave out the Words "dismantled, and the Soldiers in them," was read:

Resolved, That the said Amendment be referred to the same Committee, to word it upon the present Debate.

The next Amendment, 7 Instruction, 6th Line, after the Word "them," and before the Word "shall," read "as aforesaid;"

The like, 8 Line; the like 8th Instruction, 10th Line; the like, 12th Line; the like, 14th Line; the like, 9th Instruction, 16 Line; were read; and, on several Questions, agreed unto.

The next Amendment, viz. in the 14th Instruction, 2d Line, after the Word "Army," and before the Words "shall be," put in these Words, "or keeping of them from free Quarter, till they shall be disbanded;" was read:

Resolved, That this House doth adhere to this Part of the Instruction, as it first went from this House to the Lords.

The next Amendment, viz. at the End of the 14th Instruction, add these Words, "except only a Fourth Part of the Money to be raised by the Poll Bill; which shall be employed to the paying off of the Five-andtwenty Ships, come in from Sea; and, after, for paying of such other Ships as the Sum will further extend unto;" was read; and, on the Question, agreed unto.

The next Amendment, 16 Instruction, 1st Line, 7th Line, 8th Line; 17th Instruction, 2d Line; 18 Instruction, 1 Line; after the Word "them," add "as aforesaid;" were read; and, on the Question, agreed unto.

The next Amendment, 18th Instruction, 2d Line, after the Word "Sheriffs," and before the Word "in," in the Third Line, leave out the Words "Members of the House of Commons and Justices of Peace;" and instead thereof, read "and all other his Majesty's Officers;" was read; and, on the Question, agreed unto.

The next Amendments, 19 Instruction, 6 Line, after the Word "them," and before the Word "are;" and, 12th Line, after the Word, "them," and before the Word "shall;" put in "as aforesaid;" were read and agreed unto.

A Proviso sent from the Lords, and affixed to the Instruction, was read the First and Second time; viz.

"Provided always, and it is hereby further Enacted, by the Authority aforesaid, That in case it shall appear unto the said Commissioners, or any Three or more of them as aforesaid, either by * * * *:"

And, on the Question put, To agree to the said Provisoes;

It passed in the Negative.

Colonel Birch reports additional Rules, Orders, and Instructions, referring to the Act for the speedy disbanding of the Army, and Garisons of this Kingdom, in relation to that Part of the Poll Money which is applicable to the Navy: Which were read; and committed to the same Committee; to be by them considered of; and their Opinion reported to the House.

Usurped Grants.

A Bill, sent from the Lords, for preventing Inconveniences which may arise by reason of Patents or Grants made, or pretended to be made, during the late Troubles, was read the First time.

Resolved, That this Bill be now read the Second time.

The said Bill was accordingly read the Second time: and committed to Sir Henage Finch, Sir Anthony Irby, Sir Tho. Meeres, Mr. Pryn, Sir Wm. Wheeler, Mr. Holles, Mr. Rigby, Sir Lancelot Lake, Mr. Annesley, Serjeant Hales, Mr. Yong, Colonel Gerrard, Sir Edm. Bowyer, Sir Solomon Swale, Sir John Temple, Colonel Harley, Lord Angier, Mr. Merick, Sir Wm. Hickman, Dr. Cleyton, Sir John Lowther, Sir John Pelham, Mr. Charlton, Mr. Clifford, Colonel West, Mr. Harris, Sir Gilbert Gerrard, Colonel Windham, Mr. Knightley, Mr. Bunckley, Sir Rich. Browne, Sir Geo. Saville: And they are to meet, in the Speaker's Chamber, this Afternoon, betwixt the Rising and Sitting of the House.

Disbanding the Army.

Sir Henage Finch reports Amendments to the Bill for raising Sevenscore thousand Pounds, for the complete disbanding of the whole Army; and paying off some Part of the Navy: Which were read by him in his Place; and were after read by the Clerk the First and Second time; and agreed unto.

Resolved, That the Bill, with these Amendments, be ingrossed.

Message to Lords.

Ordered, That a Message be sent to the Lords, to desire that the Lords will sit this Afternoon; for that there will be Bills of great Importance ready for them by Four of Clock.

That Sir John Potts do deliver this Message to the Lords: And to put the Lords in Mind of the Ministers Bill; and of the Bill for confirming of College Leases: And to carry with him the Order for the Proclamation about Excise.

Sir John Potts brings Answer from the Lords; that the Lords will sit this Afternoon; that they have made what Dispatches they can of the said Bills: that they consent to the Order for issuing of a Proclamation touching the Excise.

Usurped Grants.

A Bill for preventing Inconveniences which may arise, by reason of Patents or Grants made, or pretended to be made, during the late Troubles, was this Day read the Second time; and, upon the Question, committed.

Disbanded Troopers.

Ordered, That it be referred to the Committee appointed to withdraw, to consider of an Instruction touching Satisfaction to be given to Troopers disbanded, for their Pistols and Fire Arms, and that thereupon they deliver up their Pistols and Fire Arms.

Excise and Customs.

Sir Henage Finch reports from the Grand Committee, Amendments to the Bill giving further Power to the Commissioners of Excise and Customs: Which were twice read; and, upon the Question, agreed unto.

Ordered, That this Bill, so amended, be ingrossed.

Restoring Lane.

A Message from the Lords, by * * * *, Masters of Chancery;

Mr. Speaker, the Lords have sent you down a Bill for restoring of Sir George Lane Knight, to his Manors, and Lands in Ireland; to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

Protestants of Piedmont, &c.

Mr. Holles reports a Proviso tendered to the Bill for securing of Five thousand Pounds, due to the poor Protestants in Piedmont; giving Power to Mr. Noell, and the Executors of Alderman Temms, to take their Remedy against each other, either in Law or Equity: Which was read the First and Second time; and, upon the Question, agreed unto:

And the said Act, being put to the Question, passed.

Resolved, That this be the Title of this Bill; viz. An Act for the levying of certain Monies, due upon the Collections for the Protestants of Piedmont.

Soldiers to exercise Trades.

A Bill for enabling the Soldiers of the Army, now to be disbanded, to exercise Trades, was this Day read the Third time; and, upon the Question, passed.

Resolved, That the Title thereof be, an Act for enabling the Soldiers of the Army, now to be disbanded, to exercise Trades.

That the Lord Howard do carry up this Bill to the Lords.

Dunkirke.

Ordered, That the Amendments to the Bill for Dunkirke, be taken up the first Business in the Afternoon.

The House adjourns itself, till Three of Clock in the Afternoon.

Post Meridiem.

Privilege- a Person discharged.

ORDERED, That Mr. Saunderson, now in the Custody of the Serjeant at Arms attending this House, be and is hereby discharged of his Imprisonment.

Dunkirke.

The House resumed the Debate upon the Amendments to the Bill for an Establishment for the Garison of Dunkirke: Which Amendments were read; and, upon the Question, agreed unto.

Ordered, That the said Bill, so amended, be ingrossed.

Restoring Lane.

A Bill, ingrossed, sent down by the Lords, for settling of Sir George Lane in Possession of his Manors and Lands, was this Day read the First time.

Disbanding the Army.

A Bill for supplying certain Defects in an Act intituled, An Act for speedy Provision of Money for disbanding and paying off the Forces of this Kingdom, both by Sea and Land, was this Day read the First and Second time; and, upon the Question, committed to Serjeant Hales, Mr. Bampfeild, Mr. Holles, Mr. Harris, Sir Wm. Wheeler, Sir Tho. Meeres, Mr. Yong, Mr. Annesley, Sir Tho. Lee, Sir Henage Finch, Mr. Pryn, Colonel West, Sir Ralph Knight, Mr. Charlton, Dr. Cleyton: And they are to meet To-morrow Morning in the Speaker's Chamber.

Settling Ministers.

A Message from the Lords, by Dr. Bennet and * *, Masters of Chancery;

Mr. Speaker, The Lords have commanded us to return a Bill unto you, for the Settlement of Ministers; whereunto they have made divers Amendments; to which they desire your Concurrence.

Disbanding the Army.

An ingrossed Bill for raising Sevenscore thousand Pounds, for the complete disbanding of the whole Army, and paying off some Part of the Navy; was this Day read the Third time; and, upon the Question, passed.

Resolved, That the Title of this Bill be, an Act for raising Sevenscore thousand Pounds, for the complete disbanding of the whole Army, and paying off some Part of the Navy.

Ordered, That this Bill be sent to the Lords.

Customs.

A Bill to prevent Frauds and Concealments of his Majesty's Customs and Subsidies, was this Day read the Third time; and, upon the Question, passed.

Resolved, That the Title of this Bill be, An Act to prevent Frauds and Concealments of his Majesty's Customs and Subsidies.

That this Bill be sent to the Lords.

Soldiers to exercise Trades.

Mr. Hollis did carry to the Lords, the Bill concerning Soldiers exercising of Trades; the Bill concerning the Money due on the Collection for the Protestants of Piedmont; the Bill for raising Sevenscore thousand Pounds; and the Bill for preventing Frauds in his Majesty's Customs.

Settling Ministers.

The House took up the Debate upon the Amendments, sent from the Lords, to the Bill for settling of Ministers: Which were read, and are as followeth:

1st Skin, 5th Line, after the Word "Majesty," add these Words, "with the Advice and Consent of."

7th Line, after the Word "by," leave out all the Words to "before," in the 8th Line; and, instead thereof, insert these Words, "any Ecclesiastical Persons."

11th Line, after the Words "placed in," put out the Word "or;" and, instead thereof, put in the Word "and."

21st Line, after the Word "Wardship," put out the Word "Lapse."

21st Line, after the Word "Title," add these Words, "other than by Lapse;" and leave out all unto the Words "other than," in the 23d Line.

Line 31st, after the Word "Majesty," put in these Words, "and against;" and after the Word "Successors," leave out all to the Word "saving," in the 33d Line.

Line 33d, after the Word "the," leave out the Word "Patrons," and insert these Words, "King's Majesty, his Heirs and Successors."

Settling Ministers.

Line 48th, after the Word "Promotion," put out the Words following till the Word "which," in the 52d Line, 2d Skin, Line 13th, after the Word "whatsoever," put out all the Words, to the Word "and," in the 34 Line.

52 Line, instead of these Words, "First of October," put in these Words, "25 December."

60 Line, after the Word "aforesaid," add these Words, "or to any ejected, or sequestered Minister, who hath been beyond Sea, since the said First of January 1642, who hath therefore had no Order nor Agreement for his Fifths."

3d Skin, Line 3, after the Word "Agreements," put in these Words, "or to any who were beyond Seas."

7th Line, after the Word "Agreement," put in these Words "or to such Persons as have been beyond Sea."

9 Line, after the Word "been," add these Words, "or to be."

11 Line, after the Word "same," put out all to the Word "and," in the 23 Line.

37 Line, after the Word "thereof," put out all to the Word "which," in the 41 Line.

56 Line, after the Word "Precincts," put out all till the Words "or any," in the 58 Line.

4th Skin, Line 1, after the Word "next," put out all to the Word "and," in the 4th Line.

Line 6th, after the Word "them," put out all to the Words "shall be," in the 8th Line.

5th Skin, 3 Line, after the Word "who," instead of "having" read "have;" and after the Word "been," read "and shall be."

6 Line, after the Words "and the," leave out "26th of August;" and read, instead thereof, "9th of September."

6 Line, after the Word "Year," leave out all to the Word "but," in the 9th Line.

10 Line, after the Word "presented," and before the Word "by," leave out the Words "and declared;" and after the Word "Majesty," and before the Word "shall," put in the Words "as aforesaid."

6 Skin, 3 Line, after the Word "remain," leave out the Words "as formerly," and put in these Words, "and be for ever."

7 Line, after the Word "remain," leave out the Words "as formerly," and put in these Words, "and be for ever."

10th Line, after the Word "remain," leave out the Words "as formerly," and put in these Words, "and be for ever."

14 Line, after the Word "remain," leave out the Words "as formerly," and put in these Words, "and be for ever."

The First Clause, the 1, 2, 3, and 4 Line, to the Word "Chaplains," in the Proviso sent down from the Lords, is agreed unto:

The Question being put, To agree to the rest of the Proviso;

It passed with the Negative.

* * * *

The said Amendments were again read, with the Coherence.

The 1st, 2d, and 3d Amendments were read; and, upon the Question, agreed unto.

The 4th Amendment was read;

Resolved, That this House doth adhere to that Part of the Bill, as it went first from this House.

The 5th Amendment was read:

Resolved, That this House doth adhere to that Part of the Bill, as it went first from this House.

The 6th Amendment was read:

Resolved, That this House doth adhere to that Part of the Bill, as it went first from this House.

The 7th Amendment was read; and, upon the Question, agreed unto.

The 8th Amendment was read:

Resolved, That this House doth adhere to that Part of the Bill, as it went first from this House.

The 9th Amendment was read:

Resolved, That this House doth adhere to that Part of the Bill, as it went first from this House.

The 10th Amendment was read:

And the Question being put, To agree to this Amendment;

The House was divided.

The Yeas went forth.

Lord Herbert, Tellers for the Yeas: 79.
Sir John Talbot, With the Yeas,
Mr. Holles, Tellers for the Noes: 80.
Sir Anth. Ashley Cooper, With the Noes,

So it passed with the Negative.

The 11th Amendment was read:

Resolved, That this House doth adhere to that Part of the Bill, as it went first from this House.

The 12th Amendment was read; and, upon the Question, agreed unto.

The 13th Amendment was read:

Resolved, That this House doth adhere to that Part of the Bill, as it went first from this House.

The 14th Amendment was read:

Resolved, That this House doth adhere to that Part of the Bill, as it went from this House.

The 15th Amendment was read:

Resolved, That this House doth adhere to that Part of the Bill, as it went first from this House.-

Message for Lords to sit.

Ordered, That Mr. Bunckley do desire the Lords to sit awhile; for that the House will speedily be ready for a Conference upon the Bill for settling of Ministers.-

Settling Ministers.

The 16th Amendment was read; and, upon the Question, agreed unto.

The 17th Amendment was read:

Resolved, That this House doth adhere to that Part of the Bill, as it went first from this House.

The 18th Amendment was read:

Resolved, That this House doth adhere to that Part of the Bill, as it went first from this House.

The 19th Amendment was read:

The Question being put, To agree to this Amendment;

It passed with the Negative.-

Lords sit.

Mr. Bulkley reports, that the Lords do agree to sit a while.

Settling Ministers.

The 20th Amendment was read:

Resolved, That this House doth adhere to that Part of the Bill, as it went first from this House.

The 21st Amendment was read:

Resolved, That this House doth adhere to that Part of the Bill, as it went first from this House.

The 22d Amendment was read:

Resolved, That this House doth adhere to that Part of the Bill, as it went first from this House.

The 23d Amendment was read:

Resolved, That this House doth adhere to that Part of the Bill, as it went first from this House.

The 24th Amendment was read:

And the Question being put, To agree to this Amendment;

It passed with the Negative.

The 25th Amendment was read:

Resolved, That this House doth adhere to that Part of the Bill, as it went first from this House.

The 26th Amendment was read:

Resolved, That this House doth adhere to that Part of the Bill, as it went first from this House.

The 27th Amendment was read:

Resolved, That this House doth adhere to that Part of the Bill, as it went first from this House.

The 1st Paragraph of the Proviso sent down by the Lords, was read; and, upon the Question, agreed unto.

The next Paragraph in the said Proviso was read;

And the Question being put, To agree to this Proviso;

It passed in the Negative.

Resolved, That Sir Richard Temple do desire a present Conference with the Lords, upon the Bill for settling of Ministers.

Sir Richard Temple brings Answer, that the Lords do agree to a present Conference, as is desired.

Ordered, That Mr. Swinfen, Mr. Holles, Sir Henage Finch, Mr. Pryn, Mr. Bulkeley, Serjeant Hales, Sir George Booth, Sir Anthony Ashley Cooper, Colonel King, Mr. Charlton, Mr. Bampfeild, Mr. Annesley, Dr. Cleyton, Mr. Yong, Mr. Crew, Colonel Harley, be the Committee to manage the Conference with the Lords upon the Amendments to the Bill for settling Ministers.

Disbanding the Army.

Colonel Birch reports from the Committee to whom the Amendments, sent down from the Lords, to the Bill for disbanding the Army, was referred, some Amendments to the said Amendments: Which were twice read; and, upon the Question, agreed unto.

Colonel Birch also reports an Instruction, touching paying the Troopers for the Holsters, Pistols, and Carbines: Which was read; and, upon the Question, laid aside.

Mr. Annesley reports an Instruction, giving to the Commissioners for this House, for disbanding the Army, One Peny in the Pound: Which was read; and, upon the Question, agreed unto.

Riding armed.

Ordered, That the Members of this House, of the King's Council, do desire his Majesty to issue forth a Proclamation, for putting the Acts against riding armed, in effectual Execution.

Restoring Lane.

A Bill, ingrossed, sent down from the Lords, for restoring of Sir George Lane Knight to the Possession of the Manor of Rathclyne, and Lysduffe, and other Lands in Ireland, was read the Second and Third time; and, upon the Question, passed.

Ordered, That the Lord Angier carry this Bill to the Lords.

Disbanding Army.

A Message from the Lords, by Dr. * * * *, Masters of Chancery;

Mr. Speaker, the Lords have commanded us to bring down this Bill to you again; which is, for the raising of Sevenscore thousand Pounds for the complete disbanding of the Army, and Part of the Navy; and to let this honourable House know, they have concurred with you therein.