House of Commons Journal Volume 9
26 June 1678

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1802

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'House of Commons Journal Volume 9: 26 June 1678', Journal of the House of Commons: volume 9: 1667-1687 (1802), pp. 505-507. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=27649 Date accessed: 20 October 2014.


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Mercurii, 26 Junii, 1678.

Prayers.

Pawnbrokers.

SIR Tho. Stringer reports from the Committee to whom the Bill concerning the Pawnbrokers, was committed, several Amendments agreed by the Committee to be made to the Bill: Which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same were once read: And some of the Amendments being read a Second time;

A Motion being made, That the Bill may be recommitted;

Ordered, That the Bill be re-committed to the former Committee: And they are to meet this Afternoon in the Place formerly appointed.

A Message from the Lords, by Sir Edward Low and Sir Samuel Clerke;

Dean of St. Paul's Estates.

Mr. Speaker, The Lords have commanded us to acquaint you, That they have agreed to the Amendment made by the House of Commons to the Bill, intituled, An Act for increasing the Revenue of the Dean of St. Paul's; and assuring the Estates of his Tenants in Shadwell in the County of Middlesex: And also to desire a present Conference with this House, in the Painted Chamber, upon the Subject Matter of the last Conference.

The Messengers being withdrawn;

Conference on Lords Amendments to Supply Bill.

Resolved, &c. That this House doth agree to meet the Lords at a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber.

And the Messengers being called in;

Mr. Speaker acquaints them, That this House had agreed to meet the Lords at a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber.

Ordered, That the Members who did attend, and managed the former Conference, do attend this Conference.

Sir Thomas Meeres reports from the Conference had with the Lords, That the Lord Privy Seal did manage the Conference: And that what was delivered, was to the Effect following: viz.

"The Lords have appointed this Conference upon the Subject Matter of the last Conference, concerning the Bill, intituled, An Act for granting a Supply to his Majesty, for enabling him to pay and disband the Forces which have been raised since the Twenty-ninth September last; and to preserve that good Correspondence which ought to be between the Two Houses, in the Course of Parliamentary Proceedings in Passing of Bills; and for which, in your Introduction to the last Conference, you intimated the same was desired by the Commons."

"Their Lordships finding, that as the Bill came up to them limited to so very short a Time for the Execution of it; and That, under the Penalties of Forfeitures and Disabilities to bear Office, on those who should not do their Work according to the Purport of the Bill, within the Time prefixed; which their Lordships found absolutely impossible; They therefore proceeded by such Amendments as made the Bill practicable, by assigning further Periods of Time; viz. For disbanding the Forces in England, to the Twenty-seventh of July; and for those beyond Sea, to the Twenty-fourth of August; and for Apprentices to return to their Masters, to the Twenty-ninth of September. To all which Amendments you tell their Lordships, the Commons find themselves obliged to disagree with them, by reason of the Methods and Rights of your House, in a Matter very tender to you; but did not communicate to their Lordships, what those Methods and Rights were."

"But for answering the End which you told their Lordships they seem to aim at, you offered them an Expedient in the Proviso then delivered; which you conceived was warranted by Two Precedents, which you mentioned."

"We are commanded at this Conference to let you know, That the Lords have disagreed to your Proviso; and for these Reasons:"

"First, That where you have found their Amendments so necessary, that by the Expedient proposed you have inlarged the Periods even beyond their Amendments, their Lordships conceive you have in Effect consented thereunto, and the Course of Parliament is not to help That by a new Proviso, which might and hath been done by the Change of Days, as was by their Amendments."

"Secondly, The Precedents you produced were both in Cases where Defects were found in Bills not remediable any other way: Which therefore both Houses easily agree."

"Thirdly, You observed rightly, That those Provisoes added by the Lords, after the Bill sent by them to the Commons, did not relate to any Amendments made by the Commons; whereas the Proviso, now added by the Commons, relates to Two of the Amendments made by the Lords."

"Fourthly, Their Lordships take Notice, That though you seem to disagree to all the Amendments; yet in your Expedient you take no Notice of the Amendments relating to Apprentices; without which the Provision which seems to be made for them in the Bill, will be merely illusory."

"Fifthly, It is very doubtful, whether the Proviso, as penned, takes off the Forfeitures and Disabilities."

"Sixthly, If the Proviso should be added, the Clauses of the Bill would be inconsistent with it; the same Bill appointing short Days under great Penalties, and inlarging the Days without Penalties."

"For these Reasons, their Lordships, as they have disagreed to your Expedient, do insist upon their Amendments; and desire your speedy Concurrence in this Bill so amended, that his Majesty may not want the Money so necessary to his Service, and the Kingdom's Quiet."

The First Amendment sent from the Lords to the Bill, intituled, An Act for granting a Supply to his Majesty, for enabling him to pay and disband the Forces which have been raised since the Twenty-ninth Day of September last, was read.

Resolved, &c. That this House doth not agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

The Second Amendment to the said Bill being read;

Resolved, &c. That this House doth not agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

The Third Amendment being read;

Resolved, &c. That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

Resolved, &c. That this House doth adhere to the Proviso to be added to the said Bill.

Ordered, That the Members, who did attend, and manage the Conference, do meet this Afternoon, in the Speaker's Chamber; and consider of Reasons to be offered at a free Conference, to be had with the Lords: And that Mr. Serjeant Mainard, Mr. Solicitor General, Mr. Williams, and Sir Robert Howard, be added to them.

Popish Recusants and Disseuters.

A Motion being made for Leave to bring in a Bill to distinguish Popish Recusants from other Dissenters from the Church of England;

The Question being put, That a Bill be brought in to distinguish Popish Recusants from other Dissenters from the Church of England;

The House divide.

The Yeas go forth.

Tellers, Sir Tho. Lee, for the Yeas, 67.
Colonel Birch,
Tellers, Sir Jon. Trelawey, for the Noes, 100.
Sir Wm. Bassett,

And so it passed in the Negative.

Ways and Means.

The House then resumed the adjourned Debate upon the Report Yesterday made from the Committee of the whole House.

The Question being put, That the Words "and that the Commissioners be named by this House" be added to the Vote Yesterday reported from the said Committee;

The House divide.

The Yeas go forth.

Tellers, Sir Trevor Williams, for the Yeas, 87.
Sir Capell Luckin,
Tellers, Sir Edm. Jenings, for the Noes, 96.
Mr. Spry,

And so it passed in the Negative.

The Question being put, To agree with the Committee of the whole House in the Vote;

The House divide.

The Noes go forth.

Tellers, Sir Rich. Temple, for the Yeas, 69.
Sir Wm. Haward,
Tellers, Sir John Holland, for the Noes, 118.
Sir Rob. Kemp,

And so it passed in the Negative.

Resolved, &c. That the House do now resolve into a Committee of the whole House; to proceed further in the Consideration of the Manner of raising the Supply, not exceeding the Sum of Four hundred and Fourteen thousand Pounds, for paying off the extraordinary Charge of the Navy and Ordnance; and for paying the Princess of Orange's Portion; and for Re-payment of the Two hundred thousand Pounds, borrowed upon the Credit of the additional Excise.

Mr. Speaker left the Chair.

Sir John Trevor took the Chair of the Committee.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair.

Sir John Trevor reports from the said Committee, That they had taken the Matter into Consideration; and agreed upon a Vote: Which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same was read; and is as followeth; viz.

Resolved, &c. That the Supply, not exceeding the Sum of Four hundred and Fourteen thousand Pounds, shall be raised by Twelve Months Land Tax, after the Rate of Thirty-four thousand Four hundred and Ten Pounds Nine Shillings and Six-pence halfpeny by the Month; to commence from the Twenty-fourth Day of February 1678.

Ordered, That Mr. Solicitor General do prepare a Bill to this Purpose; and do add a Borrowing Clause; and present the same to the House with all convenient Speed.

And then the House adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Eight of the Clock.