February 1689

Commons Journal

Lords Journal

Roger Whitley's Diary

History and Proceedings

Grey's Debates

CSPD James II

CSPD William and Mary

CSP, Colonial

Treasury Books

Treasury Papers

House of Commons Journal Volume 10
11 February 1689

Sponsor

History of Parliament Trust

Publication

Year published

1802

Pages

24, 25, 26

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'House of Commons Journal Volume 10: 11 February 1689', Journal of the House of Commons: volume 10: 1688-1693 (1802), pp. 24-26. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=28752 Date accessed: 24 April 2014. Add to my bookshelf


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Lunæ 11 die Februarii, 1688.

Prayers.

Leave of Absence.

ORDERED, That Mr. Gourdon and Mr. Nicolls have Leave to go into the Country.

Message from Lords to continue sitting.

A Message from the Lords, by Sir Miles Cook and Mr. Methwyn;

Mr. Speaker, The Lords desire, That this House will please to continue sitting a little longer.

The Messengers withdrew.

Resolved, That this House doth agree with the Lords to sit a little longer.

The Messengers being called in again; Mr. Speaker acquainted them therewith.

Lords desire a Conference.

A Message from the Lords, by Sir Miles Cooke and Mr. Methwyn:

Mr. Speaker, The Lords desire a present Conference with this House, in the Painted Chamber, upon the Subject Matter of the last Conference.

The Messengers withdrew.

Resolved, That this House doth agree with the Lords, to meet their Lordships at a Conference, presently, as they desire.

The Messengers being called in again; Mr. Speaker acquainted them therewith.

Ordered, That the Committee who managed the last Conference, do manage this Conference.

Lords Amendments to Declaration of Rights, &c.

Mr. Somers reports from the Conference with the Lords, That the Lord Falconberg managed the Conference for the Lords; and delivered back the Paper of Heads, or Declaration, delivered to their Lordships at the last Conference; with several Amendments; to which their Lordships desired the Concurrence of this House: And that he gave several Reasons for such Amendments; but withal said, that they did in Substance agree with this House: Which several Amendments, with the Coherence, he read in his Place; and reported the Reasons given by the Lords for the same: Which are as followeth;

Page 1. L. 7, leave "dispensing and."

L. 8, after "Parliament," add, "and by such dispensing with Law, as, by consequence, would subject all the Laws to his Will and Pleasure."

Reason.-Such a general Declaration against the Power of dispensing may, in many Cases, tend rather to the Prejudice than the Benefit of the Subject; because the Validity of Multitudes of Letters Patents and Grants from the Crown, in the Reigns of several Kings and Queens, do depend upon Non Obstante's.

L. 12, after "issuing," add, "and causing to be executed."

Reason.-Because the Commission might have been issued, and not executed.

L. 21, after "Parliament," add, "and quartering Soldiers, contrary to Law."

Reason.-Proper to be added, as an Aggravation of the Grievance.

L. 23, after "disarmed," add "at the same time when Papists were both armed and imployed, contrary to Law."

Reason.-This is a further Aggravation fit to be added to this Clause.

L. 26, leave out from "by" to the End of the Page.

Reason.-Because they do not fully apprehend what is meant by it, nor what Instances there have been of it: Which, therefore, they desire may be explained, if this House shall think fit to insist further on it.

Page 2, L. 29, place, "Cities" before "Universities."

Reason.-Being more agreeable to the Acts of Parliament.

Page 3, L. 10, fill the Blank with "Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and."

L. 11, instead of "so elected," read, "pursuant to their respective Letters and Elections."

L. 7, leave out "unanimously."

L. 19, leave out "dispensing and."

L. 20, leave out the first "of."

L. 21, after "Parliament," add, "and the Power of dispensing with Laws, as it was exercised and extended in the Reign of the late King James the Second."

Reason.-The same as at 1 P. L. 7, 8.

Page 4, L. 5, instead of "provide and keep," read, "have," and leave out "common;" and after "Defence," add, "suitable to their Condition, and as allowed by Law."

L. 24, leave out "and suffered to sit."

Reason.-Because the Assembling and Holding of Parliaments is all that is expressed in those Statutes made in that Behalf.

Page 5, L. 2, for "invited" read "encouraged."

L. 3, leave out "as being the only means for obtaining a full Redress and Remedy therein."

L. 12, for "Laws," read "Rights; and after "Liberties," add, "as they were established by the Laws and Statutes of this Realm, at the time of the Accession of the late King James the Second to the Crown.

Reason.-Because 'tis reasonable to insist on all our other Rights, as well as those here enumerated.

L. 13, fill the Blank with "Lords Spiritual and Temporal."

L. 15, instead of "the," read "William and Mary."

L. 22, instead of "Administration of the Government," read, "sole and full Exercise of the Regal Power."

Page 6, L. 3, fill the Blank with "Lords Spiritual and Temporal."

Declaration touching the Forces.

He also reported further, That the Lords had a further Consideration before them; which was to have made a considerable Addition, as to a Provision against the Keeping of a Standing Army: But, as to that, they had prepared a Paper, purporting a Declaration of both Houses, concerning the Forces now in being, as a distinct Thing from the other Papers, and not intended to be made Part of the same; to which they desired the Concurrence of this House: And he also read the same in his Place: Which said Amendments and Declaration being afterwards read at the Clerk's Table; the said Declaration is as follows:

"Die Lunæ, 11 Februarii, 1688."

"It is declared by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, assembled at Westminster, That the Forces now in Being, or such as shall be thought necessary to be raised for the Reducing of Ireland, or the Assisting of our Allies abroad, according to Treaties, may be continued, till it be otherwise ordered in Parliament."

Message from Lords Adjournment.

A Message from the Lords, by Sir Miles Cooke and Sir John Francklin;

Mr. Speaker, We are commanded by the Lords to acquaint this House, that their Lordships have but adjourned but till Five a Clock.

Lords Amendments to Declaration of Rights, &c.

The House then proceeded to take into Consideration the said Amendments of the Lords.

The First and Second of the said Amendments being again severally read; in regard the same relates to the Matter of the Amendments in the 3d Page, L. 17, 19, 20, 21;

Resolved, That the Matter of the said First and Second Amendments be postponed, until the said other Amendments shall come to be considered.

The Three next Amendments being again severally read, were, upon the Question, severally put thereupon, agreed unto by the House.

The next Amendment, of leaving out from the Word "by" to the End of the First Page, being again read;

The Question being put, That this House do agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

It passed in the Negative.

The Four next Amendments being again severally read, were, upon the Question, severally put thereupon, agreed to by the House.

The Four next Amendments being again severally read;

A Debate arose thereupon;

Resolved, That it be referred to the Committee appointed to manage the Conference with the Lords, upon the Subject Matter of the last Conference, to draw up Amendments, upon the Debate of the House, touching the Amendments which were this Day delivered by the Lords at a Conference, unto a Paper of Heads sent up from this House to the Lords, for their Concurrence, as Amendments to their Vote of the 6th Instant sent down to this House, which relate to the Matter of the pretended dispensing Power; and also, to draw up Reasons, upon the Debate of the House, touching the Disagreement of this House to the said Amendments of the Lords: And they are to meet, immediately after the Rising of the House, in the Speaker's Chamber; and to make Report thereof to the House, with all convenient Speed; and touching such other of their Amendments, as this House hath not agreed unto.

The Three next Amendments, being again severally read, were, upon the Question, severally put thereupon, agreed unto by the House.

The Two next Amendments being again severally read;

The Question being severally put, That this House do agree with the Lords;

It passed in the Negative.

And the Four last of the said Amendments, being, one after another, again severally read, were, upon the Question, severally put thereupon, agreed unto by the House.

Resolved, That the same Committee do also draw up Reasons upon the Debate of this House, why this House doth not agree with the Lords in the Amendments before-mentioned.

Declaration touching the Forces.

The Declaration touching the Forces, being again read;

Resolved, That the Consideration thereof be adjourned.

Committees.

Ordered, That all Committees, except the Committee last before-mentioned, be adjourned.

And then the House adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Nine a Clock.