Lunæ, 22 die Julii; 1° Gulielmi et Mariæ, Anno Domini 1689.
AN ingrossed Bill for Relief of poor Prisoners, read
the Third time.
Some Amendments were proposed to be made in Press
15, L. *, to fill up a Blank with "Seven."
Press 3. L. *, insert "authorized:"
And, upon the Question, severally put thereupon, were
agreed unto by the House: And the Bill amended at the
Afterwards a Debate arose upon the Bill.
Resolved, That the Debate be adjourned till this Day
Reversing Judgments against Oates.
Sir Thomas Littleton reports from the Committee to
whom it was referred to prepare Reasons for a Conference
with the Lords, Why this House doth not agree with the
Lords in their Amendments to the Bill for reversing Two
Judgments, given in the Court of King's Bench, against
Titus Oates, Clerk, That the Committee had prepared
the same accordingly: Which he read in his Place; and
afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table:
Where the same were read; and agreed unto by the House:
And are as followeth; viz.
To Clause B, the Commons cannot agree;
1. Because, by the Law of the Land, where Error
appears in the Record, the Reversal ought to be general,
and annul the whole Record.
2. Nothing in this Bill does hinder, but that Titus
Oates may again be indicted, and tried in a legal way for
the same Matter; and to disable him, before he is legally
convicted, is not agreeable to Justice.
3. The Substance of his Evidence was never questioned,
but agreed to by both Houses in several Parliaments: And
the Commons think it unreasonable to give the World such
an Argument, by which they may infer their disbelief of
the Popish Plot, as the extraordinary Course, proposed in
this Clause, will amount to.
Ult Press, 27 L. *, To the First Amendment, to
leave out "the said Verdicts, brought in against the said
Titus Oates, were corrupt and," the Commons do not
Because the Points, in which the Perjuries are assigned
in the Information, were solemnly examined, and tried
at former Tryals, wherein the Proceedings were regular,
and when Things were fresh in Memory: And, at those
Tryals, the Testimony of the said Titus Oats, in the
Points aforesaid, was supported and verified, by concurrent Evidence, to the full Satisfaction of the Courts and
Because it appears, by unquestionable Evidence, That
several Thousand Pounds were bestowed and expended
upon the Jurors and Witnesses, and otherwise, about the
Tryals, for the supposed Perjuries: Which Sums are much
greater than could be expended in a fair and uncorrupt
Because the Juries, who passed upon those Tryals, were
returned by Officers unduly chosen, after the unjust Seizure
of the Liberties of the City of London, and in the Reign
of a Popish King; and at such a time, when neither Counsel nor Witnesses durst appear for the said Titus Oates;
when Perjury was countenanced, by tampering with, and
suborning Witnesses, to swear falsly; by Judges not daring
to take Notice how Witnesses, in latter Tryals, had contradicted what they had swore in former Tryals; but suffered Mr. Cornish, in particular, to be attained upon such
contrary Evidence, though the said contrary Evidence
had been twice printed before by Authority; and, by prevailing on divers Members of the Corporations, contrary
to their Oaths, to betray and surrender up their Liberties
To the Second Amendment, after "Bench," insert
"against the said Titus Oates were," the Commons do
Because those Words are proposed by your Lordships,
on the Supposition of the Commons agreeing to the First
Amendment: But, they disagreeing thereunto, there is no
Use of this Amendment.
To the Third Amendment in the same Line, and after
"erroneous," read "unprecedented, and so;" and for
"illegal, and are of evil Example to future Ages," read
"that the Practice thereof ought to be prevented for the
time to come," the Commons do not agree;
Because the Judgments must be illegal, if erroneous;
which your Lordships agree they are; and there can be
no Question but they were cruel; and to say only, "the
Judgments were erroneous, unprecedented; so that the
Practice thereof ought to be prevented for the time to
come," the Commons cannot agree;
Because such Precedents have been, specially in the
Star Chamber, though erroneous, cruel and illegal.
Press Ult', 34 L. To the Fourth Amendment, leave
out "said Verdicts be held null and void; and that the"
and, after "Bench," leave out "and the Judgments
given on the said Writ of Error," the Commons disagree,
1. As to what relates to the Verdicts; For the Reasons given for their Disagreement to the First Amendment.
2. As to the latter Part of the Amendment;
Because your Lordships having agreed to that Part of
the Bill, which declares the Judgments given in the King's
Bench to be erroneous, it must follow, the Judgments,
given in Affirmance of those Judgments, are equally erroneous, and ought, in like manner, to be declared so.
L. 37, To the Fifth Amendment, the Commons do
not agree; For the Reasons before given.
To Clause A, they agree not;
Because there is no need thereof: The Bill itself sufficiently declares all like excessive Punishments illegal, by
reversing those Judgments as such; whereas this Clause
seems to weaken the Declaration of the Law made in this
Ordered, That Mr. Montague do go to the Lords to
desire a Conference upon the Subject Matter of the
Amendments to the Bill for reversing two Judgments
given in the Court of King's Bench against Titus Oates,
Ordered, That the Committee appointed to inquire
into the Miscarriages relating to Ireland and Londonderry,
be revived; and do sit, To-morrow in the Afternoon, at
Four of the Clock, in the Speaker's Chamber: And that
Sir John Guise be added to the Committee: And that
all that come have Voices.
Conference with Lords.
Mr. Montague acquaints the House, That he had, according to their Order, been up at the Lords, to desire a
Conference: And that they do agree to a present Conference in the Painted Chamber.
Resolved, That the Committee, who prepared the
Reasons for the Conference, be the Managers of the said
And the Managers went to the Conference, accordingly.
Sir Thomas Littleton reports from the Conference, That
the Managers appointed had attended the same; and
delivered their Reasons to the Lords.
Reversing Judgment against Sir W. Williams.
A Bill for reversing the Judgment against Sir Wm
Williams, and asserting the Rights and Freedoms of Parliament, was read the Second time.
And Sir Robert Sawyer, according to the Order of the
House, attended in his Place; and gave the House an
Account of the Prosecution of the Information against Sir
Wm. Williams, upon which the said Judgment was obtained: And prayed, That he may be heard at the Bar
of the House, as to the Information exhibited by him,
and the Matter in the Bill which concerns him.
Resolved, That the Matter upon the said Bill, touching
Sir Robert Sawyer, be heard at the Bar of the House,
This-day-sevennight, by Counsel for both the said Parties.
Privilege- Persons discharged from Custody.
Sir Rowland Gwyn, informed the House, That Paul
Williams, in Custody of the Serjeant at Arms attending
this House had made his Submission to him, touching the
Breach of Privilege, for which the said Sir Rowland had
complained against him; and therefore prayed he might
Ordered, That the said Paul Williams be discharged
out of Custody, paying his Fees.
Sir Rowland Gwyn informed the House that * Latham,
in Custody of the Serjeant at Arms attending this House,
had made his Submission to him, touching the Breach of
Privilege for which the said Sir Rowland had complained
against him; and therefore prayed he might be discharged.
Ordered, That the said * Latham be discharged out
of Custody, paying his Fees.
Mr. Williams was brought to the Bar; and, upon his
Knees received the Reprimand of the House from Mr.
Speaker: and thereupon was discharged out of Custoday.
Claims on Revenue.
A Petition of Sir Rich. Onslow, Baronet, and Denzill
Onslow, Esquire, on Behalf of the Poor of St. Bennet
Grace-church in London, and of several other Parishes,
was read; setting forth, That Sir Robert Vyner being indebted to Sir Thomas Foot in Seven hundred Pounds, did
assign to the said Sir Thomas Foot the yearly Sum of
Forty-two Pounds, to be paid for ever, Part of a greater
yearly Sum granted by the late King Charles the Second
to Sir Robert Vyner, and charged upon the Hereditary
Excise: That Sir Thomas Foot after, by his Will, devised
the said annual Payment to the Petitioners, and others
who are since dead, for the Use of the Poor of the several Parishes: And praying the Consideration of the
Resolved, That the Consideration of the said Petition
be referred to the Committee of the whole House, to
whom the Bill for settling the Revenue is committed.
Leave for Member to attend Lords.
Ordered, That Leave be given to Mr. Finch to attend
the House of Lords, as Counsel in a Cause between
Ashfeild and Ashfeild.
Resolved, That the House do, To-morrow Morning at
Eleven of the Clock, resolve itself into a Committee of
the whole House, to consider of the Bill for settling the
And then the House adjourned till To-morrow
Morning, Nine of the Clock.