House of Lords Journal Volume 3
24 November 1621

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 3: 24 November 1621', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 3: 1620-1628 (1767-1830), pp. 166-169. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=30329 Date accessed: 20 August 2014.


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DIE Sabbati, videlicet, 24 die Novembris,

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales, quorum nomina subscribuntur, præsentes fuerunt:

Carolus Princeps Walliæ, etc.

p. Archiepus. Cant.
Archiepus. Ebor.
p. Epus. London.
p. Epus. Dunelm.
p. Epus. Winton.
Epus. Exon.
Epus. Petriburg.
Epus. Hereforden.
p. Epus. Wigorn.
Epus. Asaphen.
p. Epus. Norwicen.
Epus. Roffen.
Epus. Glocestren.
p. Epus. Covent. et Lich.
p. Epus. Bathon. et Well.
p. Epus. Bangor.
p. Epus. Elien.
p. Epus. Cicestren.
p. Epus. Oxon.
Epus. Bristol.
p. Epus. Cestren.
p. Epus. Landaven.
p. Epus. Sarum.
p. Epus. Carlien.
p. Epus. Meneven.
p. Epus. Lincoln. Ds. Custos Mag. Sigilli.
p. Ds. Cranfeild, Mag. Thes. Angliæ.
p. Vicecomes Maundevill, Præs. Conc. Domini Regis.
p. Comes Wigorn. Ds. Custos Privati Sigilli.
Marchio Buck. Mag. Admirallus Angliæ.
Marchio Winton.
p. Comes Oxon. Mag. Camer. Angliæ.
p. Comes Arundellet Surr. Comes Marescallus Angliæ.
Comes Rich. Senesc. Hospitii.
p. Comes Pembrooc, Camer. Hospitii.
Comes Northumbriæ.
Comes Nottingham.
Comes Salop.
Comes Kanciæ.
Comes Derbiæ.
Comes Rutland.
Comes Cumbriæ.
p. Comes Sussex.
Comes Huntingdon.
Comes Bath.
Comes South'ton.
Comes Bedford.
Comes Hertford.
p. Comes Essex.
Comes Lincoln.
p. Comes Suffolciæ.
p. Comes Dorset.
p. Comes Sarum.
Comes Exon.
p. Comes Mountgomery.
Comes Bridgewater.
p. Comes Licestriæ.
p. Comes North'ton.
p. Comes Warwic.
p. Comes Devon.
p. Comes Cantabr.
p. Comes Marche.
Comes Holdernesse.
Comes Berk.
Vicecomes Mountague.
Vicecomes Wallingford.
Vicecomes Doncaster.
Vicecomes Purbecke.
Vicecomes Maunsfeild.
p. Vicecomes Feildinge.
Vicecomes Colchester.
p. Vicecomes Rocheford.
p. Ds. Abergavenny.
Ds. Audeley.
p. Ds. Zouch.
p. Ds. Willoughby de E.
Ds. Lawarr.
Ds. Morley et Mo.
p. Ds. Dacres de H.
Ds. Scroope.
Ds. Duddeley.
p. Ds. Stourton.
Ds. Herbert de Sh.
Ds. Darce de Me.
Ds. Sandys.
Ds. Vaux.
p. Ds. Windsore.
Ds. Wentwoorth.
Ds. Mordant.
p. Ds. Cromewell.
Ds. Evre.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. Willoughby de P.
p. Ds. Sheffeild.
Ds. Pagett.
p. Ds. North.
p. Ds. St. John de Bl.
p. Ds. Howard de W.
Ds. Wootton.
Ds. Russell.
p. Ds. Petre.
Ds. Gray de Grooby.
p. Ds. Danvers.
p. Ds. Gerard.
p. Ds. Spencer.
p. Ds. Say et Seale.
p. Ds. Denny.
p. Ds. Stanhope de Ha.
p. Ds. Carew.
Ds. Arundell.
Ds. Knyvett.
p. Ds. Haughton.
Ds. Teynham.
Ds. Stanhope de Sh.
Ds. Noel.
p. Ds. Digby.
p. Ds. Brooke.
p. Ds. Mountague.

THIS Day, the Lord Keeper reported to the House the Message delivered by his Lordship, from the King's Majesty, unto both the Houses, on Wednesday last, to this Effect:

Ld. Keeper's Report of a Message from the King to both Houses.

"May it please your Highness and this Noble House; If I had in my Breast but the least Dram of those high Thoughts, which the Roman Orator had in his, when he said Nihil dixi quod dixisse pæniteat, that he never spake in his Life any one Word that he repented of; I should not have been so unwilling (as through my Nescience of that Order of the House I was) to have made a Repetition of my other Day's Message. But, in good Faith, my Performance thereof was so weak, that I had good Cause to desire it might be rather (for the Manner and all the Interest which I had therein) buried in Oblivion than revived with a second Repetition. And yet, considering the best Sacrifice I can offer up to this Noble Company, is my Humility and Obedience, I will be unto myself as Phocion was unto Demosthenes, a Kind of Chopping Knife, to cut off the Superstuities of that Declaration which wearied all your Lordships the other Day.

"I divided (according to my Method indeed, but His Majesty's Matter) the whole Narrative to Six several Parts: First, The Antecedents. Secondly, The Occasion. Thirdly, The Pattern. Fourthly, The Call. Fifthly, The Form; as Lastly, The Continuance of this present Assembly. One of these Parts I let fall in the Division, but took it up again in the Discourse and Narration.

"My Antecedents comprehended the several Effects of His Majesty's Gracious Care over the Kingdom, sithence the last Recess, or Departure, of this Assembly. How the Three Petitions presented from both Houses by my Lord's Grace of Canterbury were really answered. First, the Matter of Trade and Distribution of new Manufactures to the several Out Parts of the Kingdom conveniently established. Secondly, the Importation of Bullion, and Conservation of Coin within the Land, discussed, committed, and referred. Thirdly, and lastly, the Exportation of Iron Ordnance firmly prohibited. Then I presented to the Noble Houses the Proclamation of Grace, wherein were reformed Six or Seven and Thirty several Natures, complained of as publick Grievances, all of them (without the least Trucking or Merchandizing with the People, a Thing usual in former Times), out of His Majesty's Zeal of Justice, and no other Consideration in the World, rooted out and eternally abolished. And here I crossed the Seas to our Neighbour Kingdom, and touched upon the Reformation of Ireland, begun by a Plot projected by the Council of the one, polished by the Council of the other, and now to be perfected by Commissioners chosen out from both the Kingdoms. Those I called the Fruits of His Majesty's Vacation, and the Antecedents of this Assembly.

"The Occasion of this Assembly I partly fastened upon some Antecedents from Abroad, but principally upon a Declaration at Home, recorded and divulged far and near by the Representative Commonalty of this Kingdom. I know your Lordships have perused the same their noble Manifesto of the Fourth of June. This I made bold to analyze a little, and observed (without altering Phrase or Word) Four Circumstances in the same, to the which I applied Four Answers, warranted to a Syllable by His Majesty's Directions, as (I hope) my Lords here of the Council will bear me Witness. First, His Majesty was encouraged to travel a little longer in His pious Endeavours, to procure a Peace by way of Treaty. I declared from His Majesty, that all this was done; I wish I could have said as profitably, as I could well say chargeably. Secondly, His Majesty was besought this Treaty might not be over-lingered and delayed. I shewed them from the King, that no more it was; and produced for a Testimony the speedy Return of that Noble Lord employed in this Service. Thirdly, His Majesty was petitioned, upon the Non-proficiency of this Treaty and His pious Endeavours, to signify His Pleasure in an open Parliament. I told them from the King, that this Petition was likewise granted, and was the principal Cause that both the Houses were now re-assembled. Lastly, His Majesty is assured, that, upon this Signification, &c. I shewed them from His Majesty, that peaceable Courses are not so effectual, and the Breaches were now grown so wide and desperate, &c. And thus I stated the Occasion of this Re-assembly.

"In the Third Place, I touched upon an Heroical Act of His Majesty, which I called a Pattern for this present Assembly. And that is, the Advancement of Forty Thousand Pounds, to keep together the Body of an Army in the Lower Palatinate, the which had otherwise been dissolved before this Parliament could be assembled. I noted that, without this, their Resolution had been lost; and so will all this be, without their further Resolution.

"In the Fourth Place, I excused the Call of this Assembly, which might seem to some Men not to be so punctual; and shewed them that, as War itself, so are the Summons thereof, accompanied with Disorder and Confusion. For in Matters of this Nature (as I noted out of a good Author) Quo legitimum, &c. Those Parliaments which stand upon their Precise, &c.

"Fifthly, I touched upon the Form of this Assembly, which His Majesty's Pleasure was should imitate rather ancient than modern Precedents, that all, &c. and all cunning and malicious Diversions avoided (for such Things your Lordships well know there are in the World) they should soundly, really, &c.

"In the last Place, I came unto the Continuance of this Assembly, which His Majesty limits at this Time Time to some Seven or Eight Days before the Festivals; but renews again the Eighth of February, to last and continue for the enacting of Laws, and perioding of these Reformations, as long as the Necessity of the State shall require the same.

"And now I have presented unto your Lordships the natural Bird, as it came from the Nest, without so much as a Feather of my own Invention.

"This is no Speech, but the short Minims of His Majesty's Directions. I will only add, First, my Preface, containing His Majesty's Indisposition rather than Absence; for absent His Majesty thought he could not be, as long as he was (fn. *) represented by such a Son: A Son, of whom I may say (as Pliny did of Cæsennius Pætus's) Parenti non minus ob alia charus quam quod Filius sit, as dear to His Majesty for many other respects, as because he is his Son. And then my double Prayer. The one to your Lordships, which now I repeat again, and make for myself, for the Time past, present, and to come, to pardon the Weakness and innumerable Imperfections of your most unworthy Speaker; the other unto God, for your Lordships, to be present and President in this Assembly."

Ld. Digby's Report of the Message concerning Spain; &c.

The Lord Digby also made a short Repetition of that Part of the Message, which his Lordship delivered at the same Time: videlicet,

"In the Delivery of the said Message, I presented these Three Considerations.

"1. His Majesty's Proceedings, and the Issue of them.

"2. The State of the Business at this present.

"3. What Redress was fittest.

"I began with His Majesty's Proceedings from the unfortunate Overthrow of Prague; upon the News whereof, His Majesty instantly considered what was to be done, and resolved that the best was to keep the Princes of the Union in Arms; and that, to continue their Army, His Majesty sent them Thirty Thousand Pounds by Albertus Morton.

"Then His Majesty dispatched Sir Edward Villiers into Silesia, to setch the Palsgrave's Submission unto the Emperor, upon such Conditions as His Majesty should think it.

"And His Majesty then also sent me unto the Archduke Albertus, to propound a Reconciliation; and sent to him first, for that he had the greatest Stroke in the Affairs of the Empire, and greatest Command over the Spanish Army, in regard the Emperor had all his Greatness (saving a few little Provinces) by Resignation from the said Archduke.

"The Archduke willingly assented to a Reconciliation in Favour of His Majesty; and, to that End, the Archduke writ his Letters to the Emperor and the King of Spayne.

"And, in the interim, the Princes of the Union grew to disband; whereupon the Archduke, to shew his Willingness to a Reconciliation, did procure Spinola to cease from Arms; and, by that Means, the Palatinate was saved, which otherwise had been lost; the which Cessation continued all the Archduke's Lifetime.

"Sir Edward Villeires and I returned into England, both about one Time; I bringing with me the Cefsation from War, and he the Palsgrave's Submission.

"Now was the Business prepared, and ready for the General Treaty, which His Majesty at the first intended to have with the Emperor, touching the Reconciliation; and (fn. †) was employed in that Errand, accompanied with Letters of Commendation from the Kings of Spayne, France, Poland, and Denmarke.

"The Propositions which I was to make to the Emperor were, That the Palsgrave should be restored to his Lands and Honour, in all Points as he enjoyed them when he married His Majesty's Daughter; the Palsgrave submitting himself to the Emperor, upon such Conditions as the Emperor and His Majesty should agree of.

"The Emperor answered, That he was willing to gratify His Majesty His Demands, for the great Moderation which he had (fn. *) experienced in His Majesty, in the Business of Bohemia, so as the King would undertake for the Palsgrave's Submission; but the Emperor did refer the concluding of the Business unto a Diet.

"Then I made Second Propositions; to wit, That War might cease until Matters were debated by a Diet.

"Unto which the Emperor answered, That he did not take it that it was a War, or Hostility, that he waged against the Palsgrave; yet, in Favour to His Majesty, he would agree to a Cessation.

"After this, the Emperor did hasten the Diet; the Princes denied their Appearance at the same, in regard they were, in that troublesome Time, to look unto themselves and stand upon their Guard. Whereupon I moved the Emperor to send to every Prince, and to acquaint him with His Majesty's Propositions; which the Emperor did accordingly.

"And, upon Answer of the Princes, the Emperor wrote his Letters to His Majesty, to answer to His Majesty's Propositions, which I received, thinking all Business had been in Effect fully concluded on; in which Letters of the Emperor's there was contained, That the Emperor had written to the Duke of Bavaria, and the Infanta, for a Cessation from Arms; and that himself had granted a Cessation, upon my Promise either to procure Count Mansfeild to lay down his Arms, or else His Majesty to declare Count Mansfeild an Enemy; and, in those Letters, the Emperor did write, that he would not take up Arms again, until Three Months after that he had given Notice to His Majesty, that he would renew War.

"Where I shewed the Reason why the Emperor could not agree upon any Truce, without the Duke of Bavaria.

"First, in respect of the Emperor's Agreement in the Begining of the Troubles, neither to make a War or Peace without the Consent of the Duke; which happened because that, upon the former Truce made by the Archduke, the Soldiers that were in the Lower Palatinate, and wanted Employment, came up into the Higher Palatinate, to Count Maunsfeild, and much infested the Duke of Bavaria.

"Secondly, in regard the Duke of Bavaria had a great part of Austria in Pledge, for his Satisfaction.

"Thirdly, in regard the Emperor was barred of all other Passage but through Bavaria, by Bethlem, Gabar, Jaggerensorpe, and Budianus.

"I, coming to Count Maunsfeild to treat with him about laying down of his Arms, found plainly, that the Duke of Bavaria had, from the Beginning, affected to get unto himself the Palatinate, and the Title of Elector.

"And the Duke of Bavaria, in his Letters which he wrote to me (upon Receipt of the Emperor's Letter writ unto him touching the Truce), did discover his Intention; for he wrote, I should not need to labour for a Truce, for the Wars were at an End, in that he had agreed with Count Maunsfeild; so that he doubted not to keep both the Palatinates in Peace until the Emperor and the Palsgrave were agreed; and here I noted that the Duke's Answer was a bitter Erision.

"The Infanta refused to have a Truce; and acquainted me, that such was the Emperor's Mind also; whereupon I observed that the Emperor's Answer to His Majesty's Propositions had been deferred, so that now it was come, either that His Majesty must leave His Children, or else denounce War.

"Touching the present Estate of the Palatinate, I shewed, that Count Maunsfeild was come down into the Lower Palatinate with Sixteeen Thousand Men, and Sir Horrace Vere had more some Five Thousand, all these having endured the Hardness of War some Two Years; and here I observed, that much was saved by this Means, which would have been spent in raising, arming, and carrying off, so many Thousand Soldiers into that Place.

"I said further, that those of the Palatinate had lived free from Oppression and Rapine, under the Spanish Army; and that therefore some speedy Course was to be taken for sending of Money into the Palatinate, lest Maunsfeild's Soldiers, through Want, should be driven to fall to Spoil, and distaste those of the Palatinate, and breed a Liking of them of the Spanish Government.

"I further noted, that Count Maunsfeild's Army did not consist of Men, which fought for their Country, Wives or Children, but for Money; which they must have speedily, or they are gone. And if Count Maunsfeild, for Want of Pay, should take a Mislike, he might, for Honour or other Reward, fall off to the Emperor; and then all were lost.

"I also briefly described unto them the present State of all Christendom, the Power of the Emperor, and of the Five Armies maintained by the King of Spaine. That the Forces of the Princes of the Union were disbanded, and that the Catholic League doth continue and hold firm.

"I noted further, how bravely Sir Horrace Vere and Captain Borrough had behaved themselves of late in the Palatinate; and that, by the Wisdom and Valour of Sir Horrace, there was kept from the Enemy Hedeleburgh, being a Place of small Strength, Maynham a very strong Town, Frankendall, which had endured a Month's Siege, and Wormes, which is the present State of the Palatinate.

"Touching what Redress was fittest, I concluded, that it was fit to cherish and keep that Army which is already there, which must be with Supply of Money; and more Forces must be prepared against next Spring, as we might have there an Army of our own, to the strengthening of the Palatinate, and Encouragement of the Princes of the Union.

"This I recommended unto them; and wished that every one should shew his Zeal and Affection unto His Majesty herein."

Lord Treasurer's Report of the Message concerning the State of the Finances.

The Lord Treasurer also reported, That the Part of the Message, which his Lordship delivered, was to this Effect: videlicet,

"That his Lordship declared unto them the present Estate of the Exchequer, and Smallness of His Majesty's Revenues; and that the Two Subsidies granted this Parliament are spent about the Palatinate.

"That the Business now in Hand requires a great and speedy Supply, wherein His Majesty had taken some Course out of his own; and his Lordship doubted not but that the Commons would add thereunto, and perform what they had so nobly promised in their Manifesto: The disposing whereof they needed not to doubt, for that His Majesty intends the same to be wholly employed for the Recovery of the Palatinate.

"And that his Lordship wished the Commons to handle the Business so as they might make the King in Love with the Parliaments."

Exportation of Ordnance.

The Names of the Lords of the Bill against Transportation of Iron Ordnance, were read; and Ordered, That, if the major Part of those Lords which are now in Town do meet, then the Committee to proceed.

Monopolies.

The Names of the Lords Committees on the Bill concerning Monopolies were read; and their Lordships are to meet on Tuesday next, the Twenty-seventh of this November, at Two in the Afternoon, in the Painted Chamber.

Exportation of Money.

The Names of the Lords Committees against Transportation of Money, &c. were read; and their Lordships are to meet on Wednesday next, the Twenty-eighth of this November, at Two in the Afternoon, in the Painted Chamber; and Sir Thomas Smyth, one of the EastIndia Company, is to have Notice then to attend their Lordships.

Orders of the House, &c.

It is likewise Agreed, That the Grand Committee of the Customs and Orders of this House, and Privileges of the Peers of the Kingdom, or Lords of Parliament, do meet every Thursday, at Two in the Afternoon, in the Painted Chamber. And then the Lords Sub-Committees for the said Customs and Privileges to make an Account unto them what they have done.

"To the Right Honourable the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in His Majesty's High Court of Parliament assembled.

Cowse's Petition.

"The humble Petition of William Cowse, now Prisoner in Ludgate, and Servant to the Right Honourable the Lord Stafford.

"Shewing,

"That whereas, your Petitioner being his Lordship's Servant, it pleased his Lordship to grant unto your Petitioner his Protection; and yet, notwithstanding, your Petitioner (by James Moorton and Robert Campion, Officers to the Sheriffs of London), upon the 30th of June last, was arrested in Execution, at the Suit of one Mr. Goade and William Jennynges, and hath been ever since detained in Prison, and several Suits by other Men prosecuted against him; all his Goods being seized, and, by Reason thereof, your Petitioner was not able to pay his Rent, and so forfeited the Lease of his House at Michaelmas last, being worth Three Hundred Pounds to be sold, and your Petitioner quite cast out of his House.

"May it therefore please your Honours to take the same into your Honourable Considerations, and to free your Petitioner, according to the Privilege of your House and Honourable Court of Parliament, as also according to an Act of Parliament made in Primo of His Majesty. And that your Honours would be likewise pleased to question the said Goad for his contemptuous Words; saying, He neither regarded the Protection, nor your Lordships Orders, nor any Thing else your Lordships could do, no more than he regarded a Rush.

"And your Petitioner, his Wife and Children, shall daily pray for your Honours Happiness."

This Petition being read, it was Ordered, That His Majesty's Writ of Habeas corpus cum causa be awarded out of the Chancery, directed unto the Sheriffs of London, to bring the Body of the Petitioner (William Cowse), before their Lordships, on Monday next, by Nine in the Morning.

And it was likewise Ordered, That the Serjeant at Arms, attendant on this House, shall bring before their Lordships, at the same Time, the Bodies of the said James Moorton and Robert Campion, who made the said Arrest, and of William Goad and William Jennyngs, at whose Suit the said Petitioner was arrested, to answer their High Contempt, for Breach of the Privileges of this House.

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Lunæ proximum, videlicet, 26m diem instantis Novembris, hora 9a, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Footnotes

* Origin. presented.
Deest in Origin.
* Orig. used.