House of Lords Journal Volume 3
8 March 1624

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History of Parliament Trust

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 3: 8 March 1624', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 3: 1620-1628 (1767-1830), pp. 249-251. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=30371 Date accessed: 23 April 2014. Add to my bookshelf


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Die Lunæ, videlicet, 8 die Martii,

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales, quorum nomina subscribuntur, præsentes fuerunt:

p. Carolus Princeps Walliæ, etc.

p. Archiepus. Cant.
Archiepus. Eborum.
p. Epus. London.
p. Epus. Dunelm.
p. Epus. Winton.
Epus. Petriburg.
p. Epus. Hereforden.
Epus. Wigorn.
Epus. Norwicen.
p. Epus. Roffen.
Epus. Glocestren.
Epus. Carlien.
p. Epus. Co. et Lich.
p. Epus. Bath. et W.
p. Epus. Bangor.
p. Epus. Elien.
Epus. Cicestren.
p. Epus. Oxon.
p. Epus. Cestren.
p. Epus. Landaven.
Epus. Sarum.
p. Epus. Exon.
p. Epus. Meneven.
p. Epus. Bristol.
p. Epus. Asaphen.
p. Epus. Lincoln, Ds. Custos Mag. Sigilli.
p. Comes Midd. Magnus Thesaur. Angliæ.
p. Vicecomes Mountague, Præsidens Concilii Domini Regis.
p. Comes Wigorn. Ds. Custos Privati Sigilli.
Dux Buck. Magnus Admirallus Angliæ.
Marchio Winton.
p. Comes Oxon. Magnus Camerar. Angliæ.
p. Comes Arundell et Surr. Comes Maresc. Angliæ.
p. Comes Cantabr. Senesc. Hospitii.
p. Comes Pembroc, Camerar. Hospitii.
Comes Northumbriæ.
Comes Nottingham.
Comes Salop.
p. Comes Kanciæ.
Comes Derbiæ.
p. Comes Rutland.
Comes Cumbriæ.
Comes Sussex.
Comes Huntingdon.
Comes Bath.
p. Comes South'ton.
Comes Bedd.
Comes Hertford.
p. Comes Essex.
p. Comes Lincoln.
p. Comes Suffolciæ.
p. Comes Dorset.
p. Comes Sarum.
p. Comes Exon.
p. Comes Mountgomery.
p. Comes Bridgwater.
p. Comes Leicestriæ.
p. Comes North'ton.
Comes Warwic.
p. Comes Devon.
Comes March.
Comes Holdernesse.
p. Comes Carlile.
p. Comes Denbigh.
Comes Bristol.
p. Comes Anglisey.
p. Vicecomes Mountague.
Vicecomes Wallingford.
Vicecomes Purbeck.
p. Vicecomes Maunsfeild.
p. Vicecomes Colchester.
p. Vicecomes Rochford.
p. Vicecomes Andever.
Ds. Abergavenny.
Ds. Audley.
Ds. Zouch.
Ds. Willoughby de E.
p. Ds. Delaware.
p. Ds. Berkley.
Ds. Morley et M.
Ds. Dacres de H.
Ds. Stafford.
Ds. Scroope.
p. Ds. Duddeley.
p. Ds. Stourton.
Ds. Herbert de Sh.
p. Ds. Darcy de Men.
Ds. Vaux.
p. Ds. Windsore.
p. Ds. Wentworth.
Ds. Mordant.
p. Ds. St. John de Bas.
p. Ds. Cromewell.
Ds. Evre.
p. Ds. Sheffeild.
Ds. Paget.
Ds. North.
p. Ds. St. John de Bl.
p. Ds. Howard de W.
Ds. Wooton.
p. Ds. Russell.
p. Ds. Grey de Groby.
p. Ds. Petre.
Ds. Danvers.
p. Ds. Spencer.
p. Ds. Say et Seale.
Ds. Denny.
p. Ds. Stanhope de H.
p. Ds. Carew.
Ds. Arundell de W.
Ds. Haughton.
Ds. Teynham.
p. Ds. Stanhope de Sh.
p. Ds. Noel.
Ds. Brooke.
p. Ds. Mountague.
p. Ds. Cary de Lep.
Ds. Kensington.
p. Ds. Grey de Werke.

Abuse of the Sabbath.

HODIE 1a et 2a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for punishing of divers Abuses committed on the Lord's Day, called Sunday; and committed unto the

L. Archbp. of Cant.
E. of South'ton.
L. Viscount Wallingford.
L. Bp. of Winchester.
L. Sheffeild.
L. Russell.
L. Say et Seale.
L. Mountague.
Mr. Justice Chamberlaine,
Mr. Justice Crooke,
To attend their Lordships.

Against prophane Swearing.

Hodie 1a vice lecta est Billa, An Act to prevent and reform prophane Swearing and Cursing.

To explain Part of an Act for Discovery of Popish Recusants.

Hodie 1a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for the Explanation of a Branch of the Statute, made in the Third Year of the King's Majesty's Reign of England, intituled, An Act for the better discovering of Popish Recusants.

Limitation of Actions, and avoiding Suits in Law.

Hodie 1a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for Limitation of Actions, and for avoiding of Suits in Law.

For Relief against Informations.

Hodie 1a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for the Ease of the Subject, concerning Informations upon Penal Statutes.

Subject to plead the General Issue.

Hodie 1a vice lecta est Billa, An Act to admit the Subject to plead the General Issue in Informations of Intrusion, brought on the Behalf of the King's Majesty, and to retain his Possession till Trial.

Vere's Naturalization.

Hodie 1a et 2a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for the Naturalizing of Elizabeth Vere and Marie Vere, Daughters of Sir Horace Vere, Knight; and committed unto the

E. of Oxford.
E. of Essex.
L. Bp. of Duresme.
L. Bp. of Rochester.
L. Wentworth.
L. St. John of Bletso.
L. Russell.
L. Mountague.
Mr. Attorney General,
Mr. Serjeant Crooke,
To attend their Lordships.

To meet presently.

This Committee being returned, the Earl of Oxford reported the same Bill fit to pass, with One small Amendment; the which was presently Twice read, and approved of.

Exchange between the Prince and Sir Lewis Watson.

The Lord President reported the Bill, An Act for Confirmation of an Exchange of Lands, between the most Excellent Prince Charles and Sir Lewes Watson, Knight and Baronet, fit to pass; whereupon it is Ordered, The same Bill to be ingrossed.

Report from the Committee, who, with another of the Commons, lately attended the King.

The Lord Archbishop of Cant. reported, That his Grace, accompanied with the rest of the Committee of this House, and a Committee of the Commons, did, on Friday last, deliver unto the King's Majesty (at Theobalds) the Advice of the Lords and Commons touching the Treaties of the Prince's Match, and of the Palatinate, according as his Grace was enjoined, and in the same Form as was agreed on by a Committee of both Houses, and here approved of, in hæc verba:

Advice of both Houses to the King, concerning Treaties with Spain.

"May it please Your most Excellent Majesty,

"We are come unto You, employed from Your most faithful Subjects and Servants, the Lords and Commons assembled in this present Parliament.

"And First, they and we do give most humble and hearty Thanks unto Almighty God, that, out of His gracious Goodness, He hath been pleased now at last to dispel that Cloud and Mist, which, for so many Years, hath dimmed the Eyes of a great Part of Christendom in that Business whereof we do now consult.

"And Secondly, we acknowledge ourselves most bound unto Your Majesty, that You have been pleased to require the humble Advice of us, Your obedient Subjects, in a Cause so important as this, which hitherto dependeth between Your Majesty and the King of Spaine, which we jointly offer, from both Houses, no One Person therein dissenting or disagreeing from the rest.

"And that is, That, upon mature Consideration, and weighing many Particulars of sundry Natures, finding so much Want of Sincerity in all their Proceedings, we, super totam materiam, present this our humble Advice unto Your Majesty, That the Treaties, both for the Marriage and for the Palatinate, may not any longer be continued, with the Honour of Your Majesty, the Safety of Your People, the Welfare of Your Children and Posterity, as also the Assurance of Your ancient Allies and Confederates."

This being said, his Grace further related, That His Majesty returned a grave, gracious, and wife Answer.

The Lord President read the King's Answer, according as it was collected and put in Writing by the Committee of both Houses on Saturday last, which followeth in bæc verba:

King's Answer.

"My Lords and Gentlemen all,

"I have Cause first to thank God, with My Heart and all the Faculties of My Mind, that My Speech, which I delivered in Parliament, hath taken so good Effect amongst you, as that, with an unanimous Consent, you have freely and speedily given Me your Advice in this great Business, for which I also thank you all as heartily as I can.

"I also give My particular Thanks to the Gentlemen of the Lower House, for that I heard, when some amongst you would have cast Jealousies and Doubts between Me and My People, you presently quelled those Motions, which otherwise might have hindered the happy Agreement I hope to find in this Parliament.

"You give Me your Advice to break off both the Treaties, as well concerning the Match as the Palatinate; and now give Me Leave, as an old King, to propound My Doubts, and hereafter to give you My Answer.

"First, it is true, that I, who have been all the Days of My Life a Peaceable King, and have had the Honour in my Titles and Impresses to be stiled "Rex Pacificus," should without Necessity imbroil Myself in War, is so far from My Nature, and from the Honour which I have had at Home and Abroad in endeavouring to avoid the Effusion of Christian Blood (of which too much hath been shed, and so much against My Heart), that, unless it be upon such a Necessity, that I may call it, as some say merrily of Women, malum necessarium, I should be loth to enter into it.

"And I must likewise acquaint you, that I have had no small Hopes given Me of obtaining better Conditions for the Restitution of the Palatinate, and that even since the Sitting down of the Parliament: But be not jealous, nor think Me such a King that would, under Pretext of asking your Advice, put a Scorn upon you, by disdaining and rejecting it. For you remember, that, in My first Speech unto you, for Proof of My Love to My People, I craved your Advice in these great and weighty Affairs; but, in a Matter of this Weight, I must first consider how this Course may agree with My Conscience and Honour; and next (according to the Parable uttered by Our Saviour), after I have resolved of the Necessity and Justness of the Cause, to consider, how I shall be enabled to raise Forces for this Purpose.

"As concerning the Case of My Children, I am now old, and would be glad, as Moses saw the Land of Promise from a high Mountain (though he had not Leave to set his Foot in it), so would it be a great Comfort to Me, that God would but so long prolong My Days, as, if I might not see the Restitution, yet at least to be assured that it would be; that then I might, with old Simeon, say, Nuns dimittis servum tuum, Domine, etc. otherwise it would be a great Regret unto Me, and I should die with a heavy and discomforted Heart.

"I have often said, and particularly in the last Parliament, and I shall be ever of that Mind, that, as I am not ambitious of any other Men's Goods or Lands, so I desire not to brook a Furrow of Land in England, Scotland, or Ireland, without Restitution of the Palatinate; and in this Mind I will live and die.

"But let Me acquaint you a little with the Difficulties of this Case: He is an unhappy Man that shall advise a King, and it is an unchristian Thing, to seek that by Blood, which may be had by Peace.

"Besides, I think your Intentions are not to engage Me in a War, but withall you will consider how many Things are requisite thereunto.

"I omit to speak of My own Necessities; they are too well known; sure I am, I have had the least Help in Parliaments of any King that reigned over you these many Years.

"I must let you know, that My Disabilities are increased by the Charge of My Son's Journey into Spaine, which I was at for his Honour, and the Honour of this Nation; by sending of Ambassadors; by Maintenance of My Children, and by assisting of the Palatinate, I have incurred a great Debt to the King of Denmarke, which I am not yet able to pay.

"The Low Countreys, who, in regard of their Nearness, are fittest to help for the Recovery of the Palatinate, are at so low an Ebb, that, if I assist them not, they are scarce able to subsist.

"The Princes of Germanie, that should do Me any Good, are all poor, wrecked, and disheartened, and do expect Assistance from hence.

"For Ireland, I leave it to you, if that be not a Back-door fit to be secured.

"For the Navy, I thank God, it is now in better Case than ever it was; yet more must be done, and, before it can be prepared as it ought to be, it will require a new Charge, as well for (fn. *) its own Strength as for securing My Coasts.

"My Children, I vow to God, eat no Bread but by My Means. I must maintain them, and not see them want, in the mean Time, till the Palatinate be recovered.

"My Customs are the best Part of My Revenue, and, in Effect, the Substance of all I have to live on; all which are farmed out, upon that Condition, That, if there be War, those Bargains are to be annulled; which will enforce a great Defalcation.

"Subsidies ask a great Time to bring them in. Now, if you assist Me that Way, I must take them up beforehand upon Credit, which will eat up a great Part of them.

"This being My Case, to enter into a War without sufficient Means to support it, were to shew My Teeth, and do no more.

"In the mean Time, I heartily thank you for your Advice, and will seriously think upon it; as I pray you to consider of these other Parts.

"My Treasurer, to whose Office it appertains, shall more at large inform you of those Things that concern My Estate.

"Thus freely do I open My Heart unto you; and, having your Hearts, I cannot want your Helps; for it is the Heart that opens the Purse, and not the Purse the Heart.

"I will deal frankly with you. Shew Me the Means how I may do what you would have Me; and if I take a Resolution, upon your Advice, to enter into a War, then yourselves, by your own Deputies, shall have the disposing of the Money; I will not meddle with it; but you shall appoint your own Treasurers.

"I say not this with a Purpose to invite you to open your Purses, and then to slight you so much as not to follow your Counsel. For I will not take your Money unless I take your Counsel, nor engage you before I be engaged Myself. Give Me what you will for My own Means: But, I protest, none of the Money which you shall give for those Uses shall be issued but for those Ends, and by Men elected by yourselves.

"If, upon your Offer, I shall find the Means to make the War honourable and safe, and that I resolve to embrace your Advice; then I promise you, in the Word of a King, that, although War and Peace be the peculiar Prerogatives of Kings, yet, as I have advised with you in the Treaties on which War may ensue, so I will not treat nor accept of a Peace without first acquainting you with it, and hearing your Advice; and therein go the proper Way of Parliament, in conferring and consulting with you in such great and weighty Affairs; and haply Conditions of Peace will be the better when We are prepared for War, according to the old Proverb, That Weapons boad Peace.

"Your kind Carriage gives Me much Contentment; and that comforts Me which my Lord of Canterbury said, There was not a contrary Voice amongst you all; like the Seventy Interpreters, who were led by the Breath of God.

"I am so desirous to forget all Rends in former Parliaments, that it shall not be (fn. †) My Default, if I be not in Love with Parliaments, and call them often, and desire to end My Life in that Intercourse between Me and My People, for the making of good Laws, reforming of such Abuses as I cannot be well informed of but in Parliament, and maintaining the good Government of the Commonwealth.

"Therefore go on chearfully, and advise of these Points; and My Resolution shall then be declared."

Earl of Holderness's Privilege. Scott's Arrest.

Whereas Robert Playle, an Under-Bailiff of the Sanctuary at Westm. was, by Order of the Second of this March, committed to The Fleet, for the Arrest of John Scott, a known Servant of the Earl of Holdernes; the said Robert this Day exhibited his Petition to the House, humbly confessing his Fault, and craving his Liberty, and that Wm. Fawcett the Plaintiff, who caused the Arrest, may bear his Charges.

Whereupon it is Ordered, That the said Robert Playle shall be discharged out of Prison; and that the said William Fawcett shall pay his Charges, or stand committed to The Fleet.

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem crastinum, videlicet, diem Martis, 9m diem instantis Martii, hora 9a, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Footnotes

* Origin. the.
Origin. in.