House of Lords Journal Volume 3
19 May 1628

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History of Parliament Trust

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 3: 19 May 1628', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 3: 1620-1628 (1767-1830), pp. 802-803. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=30595 Date accessed: 29 July 2014.


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DIE Lunæ, videlicet, 19 die Maii,

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales, quorum nomina subscribuntur, præsentes fuerunt:

Archiepus. Cant.
Archiepus. Eborum.
Epus. London.
Epus. Dunelm.
Epus. Winton.
Epus. Petriburgen.
Epus. Hereforden.
Epus. Wigorn.
Epus. Norwicen.
Epus. Roffen.
Epus. Co. et Lich.
Epus. Bangor.
Epus. Cicestren.
Epus. Oxon.
Epus. Cestren.
Epus. Meneven.
Epus. Lincoln.
Epus. Sarum.
Epus. Bath. et Well.
Epus. Bristol.
Epus. Asaphen.
Epus. Gloucestren.
Epus. Carliol.
Epus. Exon.
Epus. Landaven.
Ds. Coventrey, Ds. Custos Magni Sigilli.
Comes Marleborough, Mag. Thesaur. Angliæ.
Comes Maunchester, Præsidens Concilii Domini Regis.
Dux Buckingham, Magnus Admirallus Angliæ.
Marchio Winton.
Comes Lindsey, Magnus Camerar. Angliæ.
Comes Arundell et Surr. Comes Marescallus Angliæ.
Comes Pembroc, Senescallus Hospitii.
Comes Mountgomery, Camerar. Hospitii.
Comes Oxon.
Comes Northumbriæ.
Comes Salop.
Comes Kantii.
Comes Derbiæ.
Comes Wigorn.
Comes Rutland.
Comes Cumbriæ.
Comes Sussex.
Comes Huntingdon.
Comes Bath.
Comes South'ton.
Comes Bedford.
Comes Hertford.
Comes Essex.
Comes Lincoln.
Comes Nottingham.
Comes Suffolciæ.
Comes Dorsett.
Comes Sarum.
Comes Exon.
Comes Bridgewater.
Comes Leicestriæ.
Comes North'ton.
Comes Warwic.
Comes Devon.
Comes Cantabr.
Comes Carlile.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Bristol.
Comes Angles.
Comes Holland.
Comes Clare.
Comes Bolingbrooke.
Comes Westmerland.
Comes Banbury.
Comes Berk.
Comes Cleveland.
Comes Mulgrave.
Comes Danby.
Comes Tottnes.
Comes Monmouth.
Comes Norwich.
Comes Rivers.
Comes Sunderland.
Comes Newcastle.
Comes Dover.
Comes Petriburgh.
Comes Standford.
Vicecomes Mountague.
Vicecomes Purbeck.
Vicecomes Tunbridge.
Vicecomes Say et Seale.
Vicecomes Wimbleton.
Vicecomes Savage.
Vicecomes Conway.
Vicecomes Newark.
Vicecomes Bayninge.
Vicecomes Campden.
Ds. Clifford.
Ds. Abergavenny.
Ds. Audley.
Ds. Percy.
Ds. Strange.
Ds. Delawarr.
Ds. Berkley.
Ds. Morley.
Ds. Dacres.
Ds. Dudley.
Ds. Stourton.
Ds. Darcy.
Ds. Vaux.
Ds. Windsore.
Ds. St. John de Bas.
Ds. Cromewell.
Ds. Evre.
Ds. Pagett.
Ds. North.
Ds. Compton.
Ds. Wootton.
Ds. Petre.
Ds. Spencer.
Ds. Stanhope de H.
Ds. Arundell.
Ds. Stanhope de Sh.
Ds. Noel.
Ds. Kymbolton.
Ds. Newnham.
Ds. Brook.
Ds. Mountague.
Ds. Grey.
Ds. Deyncourt.
Ds. Ley.
Ds. Robarts.
Ds. Conway.
Ds. Vere.
Ds. Tregoze.
Ds. Carleton.
Ds. Tuston.
Ds. Craven.
Ds. Mountioy.
Ds. Fawconbridge.
Ds. Lovelace.
Ds. Pawlett.
Ds. Harvy.
Ds. Brudnell.
Ds. Maynard.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. Weston.
Ds. Goringe.
Ds. Mohun.

Absent Lords excused.

LORD Steward, Excused.
Earl of Bolingbrooke,
Earl of Dover,
Lord Bishop of Rochester,
Lord Fawconbridge,

Message from the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Phillipps and others:

Message from the House of Commons, concerning the Amendment of the Petition of Right.

That the Commons received this Morning a Gracious Message from His Majesty, expressing how much it concerns Him to have a speedy Conclusion of His great Business: Whereupon they took into their Consideration how Things stood touching their Petition of Right, and found that their Lordships had taken some Exceptions to the same. They desire their Lordships Resolution, whether they will insist upon those Exceptions or not; which if they will do, then they desire a free and a mutual Conference, to debate it: And, that being done, they will enter into Consideration of the Addition unto the said Petition propounded by their Lordships on Saturday last, as they may expedite His Majesty's Business.

Answered:

Answer.

The Lords will presently take this into their Consideration, and send them a speedy Answer, by Messengers of their own.

After long Debate of this Matter, this Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Mr. Serjeant Crewe and Mr. Serjeant Davenport:

Message to the House of Commons, for Conference concerning the Points in it to be altered.

That the Lords desire a present and free Conference, between both Houses, in the Painted Chamber, touching those Points of Alterations of the Petition which were first propounded unto them by this House.

Answered:

Answer.

They will meet accordingly.

The said Alterations were read.

The House being adjourned during Pleasure, the Lords went to the Conference.

Report of the Conference.

At their Return, the House being resumed, the Lord Keeper made a brief Report of the said Conference, to this Effect: videlicet,

"Touching the First Alteration, the Commons gave a Reason of the Word ["Pretext"], but yet assented to alter the same into the Words ["by Means whereof"], as the Lords desired.

"Touching the second Alteration, for the inserting these Words ["upon urgent and pressing Causes of the State then alledged, touching the late Loans"], the Commons gave divers Reasons against it.

"1. That all Loans, against the Free Will of the Subject, are unlawful; and these Words "upon pressing Occasions, etc." infer a tacit Assent for the said Loans, in such Cases, to be lawful.

"2. The Law is general, by Two Acts of Parliament against Loans.

"3. If they should admit of these Words, it will not be conformable to the Conclusion of the Petition.

"4. Before the Commons can admit of these Words, they must know it to be true, which will ask great Debate.

"Touching the Third Alteration of the unlawful Oath, they affirm the Subject of the Oath to be unlawful, and the Loans unlawful.

"Touching the Fourth Alteration; videlicet, To omit ["before the Privy Council"], and to put in ["at London"], they gave Reasons against it: First, the Truth is so, the Parties were bound to appear before the Privy Council: Secondly, the omitting of the Privy Council will be prejudicial to Future Ages: Thirdly, this is no Parliamentary Course, which requires Verity and Particularity.

"To the Fifth Alteration they gave the same Reasons.

"To the Sixth and Seventh Alterations, touching the Addition to the Clause against Martial Law; videlicet, ["upon any but Soldiers, etc. or when Your Majesty's Army is not on Foot, etc."] they gave many Reasons not to admit thereof.

"First, Their Complaint is against Commissions in Time of Peace: Secondly, it may be a Time of Peace, and yet His Majesty's Army on Foot; and that Martial Law was not lawful here in England in Time of Peace, when the Chancery and other Courts do sit, They cited the Earl of Lancaster's Case, who was taken in fiagranti Crimine, in a pitch'd Field, against the King, Tempore E. II, and afterwards executed; and in the Time of E. III, upon Petition in Parliament to reverse the Judgement against him, it was adjudged erroneous, and reversed; for, when it may be tried by Common Law, it ought not to be tried by the Martial Law. The like for the Countess of Kent, Tempore E. III; for in the Times of Peace, when the Chancery and Ordinary Courts of Justice sit, Martial Law hath no Place touching Life and Member.

"That 13 R. II. Cap. 2. sets down what belongs to the Constable of England. They feared that this Addition might extend Martial Law to the Trained Bands, for the Uncertainty thereof, and cited the Act of Parliament, Anno 5° H. IV. N. 24 and 25."

Message from the House of Commons, that they will expedite this Business.

This Report ended; a Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Dudley Digges and others: That such is their Desire to give all Expedition unto this Business, that they will sit this Afternoon, as is desired; but such is the Weight thereof, that they shall not be ready for any further Conference this Afternoon.

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem crastinum, videlicet, 20m diem instantis Maii, hora nona, Dominis sic decernentibus.