Die Lunæ, 6 Decembris, 1641.
Letter to Sheriffs.
A LETTER to be sent to the several Sheriffs of the
several Counties respectively, was read: And Ordered, that several Copies be made of it, and signed by
Mr. Speaker, and sent to the several Sheriffs.
Loan from the City.
The Ordinance for securing to the City of London
Two Fifty thousand Pounds, &c. read.
Ordered, That Mr. Speaker do subscribe the same.
Ordered, That the Committee for the Forest of Deane
be revived; and do meet To-morrow at Eight of Clock,
in the Star-chamber.
Commrs of Subsidies.
Ordered, That Sir Gilbert Gerard, Sir Jo. Francklyn,
and Mr. Law. Whittacre, do call before them the Commissioners for the Subsidies in the Com' of Midd'; and
examine the Difference between the Commissioners, of
those that would raise the Subsidies and keep them to
the Height, and those that would let them fall, and
certify the whole State of the Business.
Abuses in Elections.
Mr. Pym, Mr. Lisle, Mr. Cromwell, Sir Guy Palmes,
Ld. Falkland, Mr. Strode, Sir Jo. Strangewayes, Sir *
Armyn, * Hide;
This Committee is to present some such Course to this
House, as may be fit to prevent all Abuses in the Elections of Members to serve in this House: And they are
in particular to take into Consideration the Information
that is given to this House, concerning the Election at
Arundell in Sussex.
Ordered, That this Business concerning the Calves
Skins, formerly staid by Order of this House, be referred to the Committee for the Customers: And they
are to consider what is fit to be done in the Business; and
to report their Opinions to the House: And are for this
Service to meet To-morrow at Seven of Clock, in the
This House taking notice that much of the Monies,
payable upon the Bills of Subsidies, are behind, and must
be brought in upon Process; they do therefore order and
require the Barons of the Exchequer, that all such Monies as are due by virtue of the Bills of Subsidies, and
shall come in upon Process as aforesaid, shall be paid into
the Chamber of London, and not into the Receipt; according to the Directions of the Acts of Parliament:
And the Officers of the Receipt are to take Notice of
this Order; and not to receive any Monies from any
Bailiff or Sheriff, that shall come in upon any of the
Bills of Subsidy as aforesaid.
Ordered, That the Treasurers of the Four Subsidies
do make their Accounts: And that Sir Edmund Sawyer,
and Mr. Philips, do take their Accounts, and certify
who are behind, that such Monies as are behind may be
paid into the Chamber of London.
vice lecta est Billa, An Act for the present disarming
of Romish Recusants.
Mr. Solicitor, * Maynard, * Glyn, * Widdrington,.
Serjeant Wilde, Mr. Whistler, * Prideaux, are to withdraw presently, and consider of some Reasons (and to
present them to this House) concerning the Proceedings
against the Bishops, upon the whole Debate that hath
been here this Day upon that Business.
Proceedings against Oneile, &c.
According to the Order made on Saturday last, for the
Taking the Business concerning Mr. Oneile into Debate,
the House entered into Consideration of that Business.
Resolved, upon the Question, That it is sufficiently
proved, that Mr. Daniel Oneile did, upon a second Design, in or about the Months of June and July last, publish false Rumours in the Army to the chief Officers
thereof, "that there were Dislikes between the King
and the Parliament;" and thereupon did persuade divers
of the principal Officers of the Army to take Part with
the King against the Parliament; to awe the Parliament,
and to interrupt the Proceedings thereof.
Resolved, upon the Question, That Mr. Daniel Oneile
shall, for this Offence, be accused by this House of
Resolved, upon the Question, That the Votes passed
in this House against Mr. Piercy, Mr. Jermyn, Sir Jo.
Sucklyn, and Mr. Oneil, be referred to the Committee
that is now withdrawn; to consider in what Manner it is
fit for this House to proceed upon those Votes against
those Gentlemen: And Mr. Serjeant Wilde, and Mr.
Peard, are added to this Committee.
And it is farther Ordered, That it shall be taken into
Consideration on Wednesday Morning next, what Name
to give to the Matter of Fact voted against Mr. Ashburneham, Mr. Pollard, &c. And are to me .. * *
Resolved, upon the Question, That it be recommended
to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, that if any Gentlemen
of Quality, fit for that Service, do make Propositions for
the Raising of Horse or Dragoons in Ireland, that his
Lordship do accept of the same; provided the Number,
in the Total, exceed not Six hundred, whereof Three
hundred to be Dragoons, and Three hundred Carabines,
in regard they may be raised there at easier Rates, and
readier, and more convenient for that Service, than here.
Resolved, upon the Question, That Two Thousand
Pounds shall be forthwith imprested out of the Chamber of London, to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, upon
Account, or to such Officers as he shall appoint, and for
whom he will undertake; for the Raising of One thousand Foot (whereof Four hundred to be Firelocks) for
the Service of Ireland.
Ordered, That Mr. Pym shall go through with his
Report, concerning the Affairs in Ireland, To-morrow
at Ten of Clock.
Proceedings against the Bishops.
Mr. Glyn reports from the Committee appointed to
consider of Reasons to be offered to the Lords, for admitting this House to their Proof against the Thirteen
Bishops formerly impeached by this House, That the
Committee conceive this Course is most fit to be held in
the Managing of this Conference:
1. To make a Narration of the Proceedings since the
first Impeachment, and of the Votes of both Houses
concerning the Canons: First, That it is voted by both
Houses, that the Canons, &c. made by the late Convocation, do contain in them Matter contrary to the
King's Prerogative, to the fundamental Laws of the
Land, against the Liberty of the Subject, the Property of
their Estate, and tending to Sedition, and of dangerous
That, these Canons being thus voted by both Houses
of Parliament, and, to bring the principal of the Persons
in the making of those Canons to Judgment, according
to their Demerit, the House of Commons did, 4° Augusti last, by Word of Mouth, impeach, at the Bar of the
Lords House, these Thirteen Bishops by Name; and, To
repeat to the Lords that Impeachment, as it was then delivered, as it is entered in the Book; concluding, that they
might be put to answer in the Presence of the Commons.
That, because some Objections might be made, that
That Impeachment was too general, the House of Commons did, 13° Aug. of the same Month, impeach the
said Bishops, at the Bar of the Lords House, by Word
of Mouth; and, to read at the Conference that Impeachment, which did declare, that all and every the
said Canons, &c. were and are contrary to the King's
Prerogative, the fundamental Laws of the Land, &c.
and were so contrived, made, and promulged by them,
&c.; and that therefore they might be put to answer in
the Presence of the Commons.
That in both these Charges the Commons did desire,
that these Thirteen Bishops might be put to answer in
the Presence of the Commons: That afterwards the Bishops had several Days given them to answer; and, at
last, 10 Nov. last, was appointed peremptorily unto
them to answer: That when 10° Novemb. came, these
Bishops put in a Writing, which they call a Plea and
Demurrer; which Writing the Lords send down to this
House: Upon Notice of which Writing (which they term
a Plea and Demurrer, wherein they neither confess nor
deny the Fact) this House did desire the Lords to appoint a Day when they might come and make good their
Charge against them.
That the Lords sent a Message to this House, that
they have ordered To-morrow to hear the Council of the
Bishops upon their Plea and Demurrer; and that such
Members of this House, as this House shall think fit,
may be there present.
Thus much for the Matter of Narration.
That, upon this, the Committee have drawn these
Conclusions; That it appeareth, by the Message from
the Lords, they were impeached 4° Augusti; and that
divers Days were given them to answer; and 10° No.
1641, they made then no Answer, but put in a Plea and:
Demurrer, as they call it; and therefore that their Demurrer ought not to be admitted, because their Defence
ought to be made to the Impeachment of the House of
Commons but in their Presence, and that the Commons
ought to be thereunto called; and that in all Courts of
Justice it is so, that the Party concerned ought to be
called to all Answers, Pleas, and Demurrers; for otherwise Mistakes might arise, which, by being present,
would be rectified, as in this Case; for if the Commons
had been present when the Bishops made their Answer,
there would not have been that Mistake; for that, upon
Search, it appears in the Lords Book, that the Second
Impeachment, whereby all Arguments of Incertainty
were taken away, and supplied any Defects in the first,
as in this Particular "all and every the said Canons, &c.
were so expressed" in the Second Charge, and yet not
so entered in the Lords Books of Journals; which would
have been rectified, if the Commons had been present at
their Answer: So, in regard of Conveniency, the Commons ought to have been admitted to be there present.
Next, That the Commons conceive, they ought to
have been called in this Case; for, that they have desired
it, in both their Charges, to be present at their Answer;
and that it was their Right to have been called.
Next, That the Charge consisting of mere Matter of
Fact, not done above a Year before, ought to be called
to answer to the Matter of Fact, and not to tender a
Thing called a Plea and Demurrer.
Next, To observe the long Delay to the Commons;
for, that they having charged these Thirteen Bishops long
since, for mere single Matter of Fact, and but brought
so lately to answer, which introduces great Inconvenience
in this Particular, and in the Consequence; and is not
exampled by former Precedents.
That therefore, upon these Grounds, the Commons
desire the Lords, they may be admitted to make good
their Proof against these Thirteen Bishops; and that they
may be brought to Judgment.
Mr. Hollis is appointed to go to the Lords; to desire their Lordships, that they would be pleased to sit
awhile, in regard they shall have Occasion to come unto
Mr. Goodwyn is appointed to go to the Lords; to desire
a free Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, concerning the Proceedings against the Thirteen Bishops.
Ordered, That the Collectors of the Poll-money for
Midd. and London shall pass their Accounts in the Exchequer, notwithstanding they have not yet received the
Monies from the Moneyers of the Mint; in regard that
the Business that concerns their Payment of the Pollmoney, is referred to a Committee.
Bailing a Prisoner.
Ordered, That Mr. * Brunsden, now in the Serjeant's Custody, by a former Order of this House, shall
be bailed upon good Bail.
Mr. Goodwyn brings Answer, that their Lordships will
give Meeting, at a free Conference, by a Committee of
the whole House, as is desired.
The Committee that was appointed to consider of the
Proceedings against the Thirteen Bishops; are appointed
Managers of a free Conference.