House of Lords Journal Volume 7
11 November 1644

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 7: 11 November 1644', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 7: 1644 (1767-1830), pp. 61-62. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=33155 Date accessed: 21 September 2014.


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Die Lunæ, videlicet, 11 die Novembris

Prayers, by Dr Gouge

Ds Grey de Warke, Speaker

Comes Kent
Comes Rutland
Comes Sorum
Comes Nottingham
Comes Stamford
Comes Bolingbrooke
Comes Suffolke
Comes Denbigh
Comes Northumb
Ds North
Ds Dacres
Ds Willoughby
Ds Maynard
Ds Bruce
Ds. Howard

White and Middleton

Ordered, That the Cause between White and Midle ton shall be heard this Day Sevennight, concerning Greye's Estate

Vannenden versus Crosle & al

Upon reading the Petition of Wm Crosse, Joos Gooschall, John Rushoult, David Otger, and others, Defendants, against Ann Vannenden Plaintiff, humbly shewing, "That their Lordships, upon hearing of the Cause between Mrs Vanenden and the Petitioners in this House, Ordered that the Defendants should give an Appearance grotis in some Court at Common Law to the Plaintiff, and a Trial to be touching the Validity of the Will of Alexander Vanenden, which was proved in this House by divers Witnesses, who dwell in several Parts, and if they should die, or be absent at the Trial, the Petitioners may lose the Benefit of their Testimony, which may be much to their Prejudice, and in regard the Original Will is in the Clerk of the Parliament's Hands, and for that there is a Cause depending in Chancery by Mrs Vanenden, and the Petitioners have answered, but the Plaintiff proceeds not Therefore the humble Desire of the Petitioners is, that the Original Will may be returned into the Office of the Chancery, and that the Defendants, giving Notice to the Plaintiff, may examine their Witnesses in Chancery, for Proof of the Will, whereto Mrs Vonenden may cross examine if she please, to the End Use may be made of the Depositions of such Witnesses as shall be dead, or cannot be produced at any Trial which she may prosecute when she please, and that the said Will may remain in Chancery for Security"

Hereupon this House Ordered and granted the Prayer of the Petition, as is desired

Paper from the Assembly about Church Government

Next was read, the Paper lately brought from the Assembly of Divines, concerning some of the Government of the Church

Ordinance to mitigate the One for Martial Law

The Ordinance for mitigating a Clause in the Ordinance giving (fn. *) Power of Martial Law to Commissioners was read, and Agreed to with adding of the Word ["Corporal]

The Earl of Northumb reported to this House a Letter, which the Committee of both Kingdoms received from the Earl of Manchester, Sir Wm Balfore, and Sir Wm Waller, which was read, dated from Newberry, the 9th of November

Letter from the E of Manchester, &c that they had repulsed the Kings Forces at Newbury

"My Lords and Gentlemen,

"Yesterday, late in the Evening, we had certain Intelligence that the Enemy's whole Army were within Five or Six Miles of us, and this Day, betwixt Ten and Eleven of the Clock, they drew up to Donnington Castle, and from thence, they both with their Horse and Foot drew into a plain Field, between the Town of Newberry and the Castle It was not held safe for us to draw out, in regard the Castle by their Ordnance would have done much Spoil upon us, therefore we resolved to make good the Town The Enemy came on upon us, but, by the Blessing of God, he received such a Repulse as that he is retreated, and the Night falling on, we could not pursue them, but we have sent out Scouts to observe their Motions, and do in tend to follow them We shall have a particular Care of the Town of Reading, according to your Lordships Commands in your Letter of the 8th of November, which we received this Night My Lords and Gentlemen, we have nothing more to give your Lordships an Account of, but rest

"Your Lordships humble Servants,

Newberry 9th Nov 1644

"E Manchester
"W Balfore
"Wm Waller"

Message to the H C with the Ordinance to mitigate the One for Martial Law

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Rich and Mr Page

To desire their Concurrence in the Alteration concerning the mitigating of a Clause in the Ordinance concerning Martial Law

Paper from the Assembly of Divine about Church Government

"To the Right Honourable the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament

"The humble Advice of the Assembly of Divines by Ordinance of Parliament now sitting at Westm concerning some Part of Church Government

"1 The Scripture doth hold out a Presbvtery in a Church, both in the Trust Epistle to Tymotoy, Chapter the Fourth, Verse the 14th, and in Acts, Chapter the Fifteenth, Verses the 2d, 4th, and 6th

"2 A Presbytery consisteth of Ministers of the Word, and such other Public Officers as are agreeable to, and warranted by, the Word of God, to be Church Governors, to join with the Ministers in the Government of the Church, as appears in the Epistle to the Romans, Chapter the Twelfth, Verses the 7th and 8th, 1 Epistle to the Corinthians, Chapter Twelfth, Vorse the 28th

"3 The Scripture doth hold forth, that many particular Congregations may be under One Presbyterial Government

"This Proposition is proved by Instances

"First, of the Church of Hierusolem, which consisted of more Congregations than One, and all those Congregations were under One Presbyterial Government

"This appears thus

"1 The Church of Hierusalem consisted of more Congregations than One, as is manifest,

"1 By the Multitude of Believers mentioned in divers Texts collated, both before the Dispersion of the Believers there (by Means of the Persecution mentioned in The Acts of the Apostles, Chapter the Eighth, in the Beginning thereof), Witness, Chapter the First, Verse the 15th, Chapter the Second, Verses the 41th, 46th, and 47th, Chapter the Fourth, Verse the 4th, Chapter the Fifth, Verse 14th, and Chapter the Sixth of the same Book of Acts, Verses First and Seventh, and also, after that Dispersion, Acts the Ninth, Verse 31th, Chapter the Twelfth, Verse 24th, and Chapter the One and Twentieth, Verse the 20th, of the same Book

"2 By the many Apostles and other Preachers in the Church of Hieruso lem, and if there were but One Congre gation there, then each Apostle preached but seldom, which will not consist with Chapter the Sixth, Verse the 2d, of The Acts of the Apostles

"3 The Diversity of Languages amongst the Believers, mentioned both in the Second and Sixth Chapters of The Acts, doth argue more Congregations than One in that Church

"2 All those Congregations were under One Presbyterial Government, because,

"1 They were One Church, Acts, Chap ter the Eighth, Verse the First, and Chapter the Second, Verse 47th, compared with Chapter the Fifth, Verse the 11th, Chapter Twelfth, Verse the 5th, and Chapter Fifteenth, Verse the 4th, of the same Book

"2. The Elders of that Church are mentioned, Acts, Chapter the Eleventh, Verse the 30th, Chapter the Fifteenth, Verses the 4th, 6th, and 22th, and Chapter the One and Twentieth, Verses the 17th and 18th, of the same Book

"3 The Apostles did the ordinary Acts of Presbyters, as Presbyters in that Church (which proves a Presbyterial Church before the Dispersion), Acts, the Sixth Chapter

"4 The several Congregations in Hierusalem being One Church, the Elders of that Church are mentioned as meeting together for Acts of Government, Acts, Chapter the Eleventh, Verse the 30th Acts, Chapter Fifteenth, Verses 4th, 6th, and 22th, and Chapter the One and Twentieth, Verses 17th, 18th, and so forward, which proves that those several Congregations were under One Presbyterial Government

"And whether those Congregations were fixed or not fixed in regard of Officers or Members, it is all one as to the Truth of the Proposition

"Nor do there appear any material Difference betwixt the several Congregations in Hiervsalem and the many Con gregations now, in the ordinary Condition of the Church, as to the Point of Fixedness in regard of Officers and Members

"3 Therefore the Scripture doth hold forth, that many Congregations may be under One Presbyterial Government

"William Twisse, Prolocutor
"Cornelius Burgesse, Assessor
"John White, Assessor
"Henry Robrough, Scribe
"Adoniram Byfield"

Adjourn

House adjourned till 9a, Wednesday next

Footnotes

* Deest in Originali