House of Lords Journal Volume 7
29 January 1645

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 7: 29 January 1645', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 7: 1644 (1767-1830), pp. 162-164. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=33220 Date accessed: 29 July 2014.


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DIE Mercurii, 29 die Januarii.

PRAYERS, by Dr. Smith.

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.

L. General.
L. Admiral.
Comes Kent.
Comes Rutland.
Comes Northumb.
Comes Sarum.
Comes Manchester.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Bolingbrooke.
Comes Suffolke.
Comes Stamford.
Comes Pembrooke.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. Willoughby.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. Mountague.
Ds. Bruce.

Papers from the Scots Commissioners, concerning the Instructions to the Commissioners for the Treaty.

The Lord Wharton reported Three Papers from the Scotts; which were read:

1. A Paper with an Addition to the Paper received from them last Night.

2. A Declaration with (fn. †) what they understand by Matters of Religion.

3. Reasons why (fn. *) they made the Addition in the Vote.

The First Paper was read; and, after Debate, it was Resolved, upon the Question, That this House agreed to the same.

Message to the H. C. to concur in their Amendment;

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page:

To desire their Concurrence in the Paper now received from the Scottish Commissioners, and that it may be One of the Instructions.

and that the Lords will sit P. M.

2. To let them know, that this House will sit at One of the Clock this Afternoon.

The Lords went to the Fast Sermon, in the Abbey Church.

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 1a post meridiem.

Post meridiem.

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.

L. General.
L. Admiral.
Comes Kent.
Comes Rutland.
Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Suffolke.
Comes Sarum.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Manchester.
Comes Bolingbrooke.
Comes Stamford.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Comes Northumb.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. Bruce.
Ds. Mountague.
Ds. Willoughby.
Ds. Wharton.

Letter from Colonel Fortescue, concerning the Wants of the Army near Farnham.

The Lord General acquainted this House with a Letter written to him from Colonel Fortescue, dated from Farneham, 28th January, 1644; shewing the Wants of the Forces, both of Monies and other Provisions.

Hereupon the House Ordered, That, for the present, this Letter be communicated to the House of Commons; and to take the Business further into Consideration To-morrow Morning, and to have a Conference with the House of Commons about it.

Answer from the H. C.

Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page returned with this Answer from the House of Commons:

That they will send an Answer, by Messengers of their own, to the Paper from the Scotts Commissioners.

Message to them, that this House will fit a while.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page:

To deliver the Letter to them, sent from the Lord General; and to let them know, that this House is to fit; and, if they have any Thing to bring up for the Dispatch of the Commissioners to Uxbridge, their Lordships are ready to receive it.

Message from thence, with an Ordinance.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Nicolls:

To desire Concurrence in an Ordinance for Continuance of the Ordinance concerning the Excise.

Read Thrice, and Agreed to. (Here enter it.)

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House agrees to this Ordinance concerning the Excise.

Thanks to the Preachers at the Fast.

Ordered, That Mr. Vynes and Mr. Newcomen have hereby Thanks returned them, for their great Pains in preaching this Day in the Abbey Church; and they are desired to print their Sermons.

Preachers at the next.

Ordered, That this House appoints Mr. Ash and Mr. Perne to preach the next Fast Day, in the Abbey at Westm.

Message from the H. C. for a Conference about the Instructions to the Commissioners for the Treaty.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Erle:

To desire a Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, so soon as it may stand with their Lordships Conveniency, touching the Instructions to be given to the Committees that are to go to Uxbridg to treat; and that the Lords of the Committee of both Kingdoms may meet at Derby House, at the Rising of the House, they having Ordered their Members of that Committee to meet likewise.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will give a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber, as is desired; and that they have appointed the Lords of the Committee of both Kingdoms to meet at Darby House, at the Rising of the House.

The Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

Report of the Conference.

And the Speaker reported the Effect of the Conference, "That they have considered of the Paper concerning the Instructions, as it came from the Scotts Commissioners; and they agree unto it with the Alterations."

Which being read, this House Agreed with the House of Commons therein. (Here enter them.)

Papers from the Scots Commissioners.

(Here enter the Two Papers of the Scotts, concerning what they understand, touching the Matter of Religion, and their Reasons for their Addition to the Paper.)

Ordinance to continue the One for the Excise.

"Whereas the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled have thought fit to continue the several Rates and Charges of Excise, or new Impost, already settled and established by Authority of both Houses: Be it hereby Ordained, by the said Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That all and every the Ordinances touching the Excise or new Impost, and every Clause, Sentence, Article, and other Thing and Things, in them and every of them contained and expressed, and now in Force, as well for the governing and ordering of the Excise, as for the settling, laying, and imposing, several Rates and Charges upon sundry and divers Commodities, shall, next after their and every of their particular and respective Expirations, be, and hereby are, continued, prolongued, and to be received, in and throughout the Kingdom of England, Dominion of Wales, and Town of Berwicke, until the First Day of April, 1646: And it is further Ordained and Declared, by Authority aforesaid, That John Towse, Thomas Foote, John Kendrick, Thomas Cullum, Symond Edmonds, Esquires, and Aldermen of the City of London, John Lamott and Edward Claxton, of the same, Esquires, the present Commissioners of Excise or new Impost, shall remain and be the Chief Commissioners and Governors of the whole Office and Receipts of the Excise and new Impost, in and through the whole Kingdom of England, Dominion of Wales, and Town of Berwicke; and shall and may do and execute all and every the said Ordinances, Clauses, Articles, and other Thing and Things, in all and every the said Ordinances contained, mentioned, and expressed, in the same Manner and Form, and to the same Intents and Purposes, for, during, and until, the said First Day of April, 1646, with the like Allowance of Six Pence upon every Twenty Shillings that shall come in upon the Receipts of the Excise or new Impost: And it is further Ordained, That the said Commissioners and their Sub-commissioners shall make and deliver up their respective Accompts, in such Manner as is directed and prescribed by the Ordinance of the 31th of August last past: And it is likewise Ordained, That as well all and every the said Commissioners, their Sub-commissioners, and Officers, as all and every other Person and Persons whatsoever, who shall do, (fn. *) or cause any Thing to be done, in Pursuance of this Ordinance, shall be protected, saved harmless, and indemnified, by Authority of both Houses of Parliament."

"Instructions for the Committee of both Houses of the Parliament of England, and for the Commissioners of the Kingdom of Scotland, respectively agreed upon.

Instructions for the Commissioners appointed to treat with the King's Commissioners at Uxbridge.

"1. You shall repair to Uxbridge, where you, or any Ten of you, whereof some of either House of the Parliament of England and some of the Commissioners of the Kingdom of Scotland to be present, shall treat with the Persons sent thither by His Majesty, from the 30th Day of January, during the Space of Twenty Days, upon the Propositions concerning Religion, the Militia, and for Ireland, formerly sent to His Majesty from His humble and loyal Subjects assembled in the Parliaments of both Kingdoms.

"2. You shall treat upon the Propositions concerning Religion, the Militia, and Ireland, Three Days apiece (alternis vicibus), during the Space of Twenty Days, beginning First with the Propositions of Religion; which, as it is of most Excellency, so is it to be sought after, and finally agreed upon, in the First Place, before any final Agreement be made upon any of the other Propositions.

"3. You shall use your best Endeavours, that the aforementioned Propositions may be agreed unto, without receding from the Matter of them.

"4. You shall deliver your Demands, and receive Answers to them, in Writing.

"5. The Members of both Houses of the Parliament of England are to give frequent Advertisements of their Proceedings in this Treaty to both Houses of Parliament, by some of their own Number, or otherwise."

Papers from the Scots Commissioners; concerning the Propositions for the Treaty, touching Religion.

"By the Agreement upon the Propositions for Religion, before a finall Agreement bee made upon any of the other Propositions, wee understand the approveing of the Covenant, the Directory for Worshipp, the Votes given in by the Assembly of Divines concerning Church Government, and passed the Houses, the assenting to the Bill against Episcopacy, &c. the ratifying of the Ordinance for the calling of the Assembly of Divines, &c. and soe much as shall passe both Houses before the expireing of the Twenty Dayes.

29 Jan. 1644.

"J. Cheisly, Sec. Commiss.

"1. As the Rule of universall Righteousnes prescribeth, that wee give to each One that which is due unto him; soe doth the Lawe of Piety and true Policy require, that Religion which rendreth unto God His Due, have the Precedency, not only in Debate, but in Determination; and that the House of God, according to the Example of the wisest of Men, bee built before our owne Houses.

"2. In relation to ourselves, wee are First to seeke the Kingdome of God, and to provide for the Meanes for our Salvation; haveinge a Promise, that other Things shal bee added; and Confidence that, from the House of God, Blessings shall issue forth upon our owne Matters.

"3. Religion had, upon good Reason, the First Place in our Solemne League and Covenant; and, upon the same Reason, ought to have the First Place now in the performing of our Vowes.

"4. All the Reformed Churches, which have their Eyes now upon us, and greate Hopes from us, will expect this Order at our Hands; and, according to their Intelligence in the Matter of Religion, will bee comforted or dejected.

"5. Wee cannott expresse how greate an Incouragment the setling of Religion will bee to the Parliament and Nationall Assembly, now sitting in Scotland, and to that whole Kingdome, in their Undertakeing; and how much it will excite them to maintaine Religion once established, and to obtayne our other Demaunds, without which Religion cannott bee preserved.

"6. The inverting of this Order would obdure the Hearts of too many in their Errors, that Religion is not principally intended by us.

"7. It might alsoe give Hopes to His Majesty, that wee may bee moved by Tyme to dispence in some Matters of Religion, and to part from our Conclusions.

29th Jan. 1644.

"Jo. Cheisly, Secr. Commiss."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 9a cras.

Footnotes

Deest in Originali.
* Bis in Originali.
* Deest in Originali.