DIE Sabbati, 22 die Februarii.
PRAYERS, by Mr. Sallaway.
Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.
|
L. General.
Comes Kent.
Comes Rutland.
Comes Bolingbrooke.
Comes Manchester.
Comes Nottingham.
L. Admiral.
Comes Stamford.
Comes Suffolke. |
Ds. North.
Ds. Mountague.
Ds. Willoughby.
Ds. Bruce.
Ds. Berckley.
Ds. Dacre.
Ds. Howard. |
Message to the H. C. to sit P. M; and with the Letter from Holland about Mr. Counteen.
A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by
Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page:
To acquaint them, that this House intends to sit this
Afternoon, at Four of the Clock, in regard it is the
last Day of the Treaty at Uxbridge; and desire them
to sit likewise, if it may stand with their Conveniency.
Also to deliver unto them the Letter received from
The States of Holland, &c. concerning Mr. Courten.
Ordinance for Officers to repair to their Colours.
Next, the Ordinance for commanding Officers to
repair unto their Colours, was reported, as fit to pass,
with a small Alteration; which being read, was Agreed
to, and Ordered to be sent down to the House of
Commons, to desire their Concurrence therein.
Wright, Printer to this House, freed from serving as a Soldier.
Upon reading the Petition of John Wright, Printer
to this House: It is Ordered, in regard of his daily
Attendance upon the House, for printing Public Business, That he shall be freed from being compelled
to serve as a Soldier, and shall not be charged therewith.
The Speaker acquainted this House with a Packet
he received from the Commissioners at Uxbridge; which
being opened, these Particulars following were read:
Letter from the Commissioners for the Treaty; with Papers about the Propositions concerning Ireland.
"For the Right Honourable the Speaker of
the House of Peers pro Tempore.
"My Lord,
"We sat up so late the last Night upon the Conclusion of the Business of Ireland, and the Papers
that passed between us are so many and long, that
we could not give you an Account thereof until this
Time. You will now receive all the Papers of the
last Three Days of Treaty concerning Ireland, and
some other Papers which were delivered unto us
Yesterday by the King's Commissioners, with our
Answers. We shall be ready in all to observe your
Directions, and remain
"Your Lordship's Faithful and humble Servants,
Uxbridge, Februarii 21, 1644.
"Northumb.
Pembrook & Mount.
B. Denbigh."
After this, the several Papers of the Treaty concerning Ireland were read.
(Here enter them.)
Answer from the H. C.
Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page return with this Answer from the House of Commons:
That they will sit this Afternoon, at Four of the
Clock; touching the Letter concerning Mr. Courten, they will send an Answer by Messengers of their
own.
Message to the H. C. with the Ordinance for Officers to repair to their Colours.
A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by
Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page:
To deliver to them the Ordinance concerning commanding of Officers to repair to their Colours, to which
this House (fn. *) Agrees with the Alterations, wherein this
House desires Concurrence.
De La Salle & al. and Pickering, & al.
Upon reading the Petition of Peter De La Salles:
It is Ordered, That this House will hear the Counsel
on both Sides, touching the Business between him and
Pyckeringe, and others, on Tuesday next come Sevennight, at this Bar.
Mansell and Harris.
Ordered, That Sir Rob't Mansell's Business shall be
heard on Thursday Morning next, the First Business.
"18 Febr. 1644.
Parliament's Commissioners Reasons, why the King had not Power to grant the Cessation with the Rebels in Ireland.
"We conceive that the Arguments used by us, that
His Majesty neither had or hath Power to make the
Cessation with the Rebels of Ireland, might have
fully satisfied your Lordships; and if any Doubts
yet remain, we are ready by Conference to clear them.
Your Lordships may well call to Mind the several
Causes we insisted upon in the Statute, and the Arguments we have given from the Common Law, and
other Proceedings in Parliament; and we do affirm,
that several great Sums of Money were raised by particular Persons, and by Corporations, according to the
true Intent of the Statute, who ought to have the Benefit of the same, according to divers other Acts of
Parliament in Pursuance thereof; and, upon Failure
of Payment by any particular Persons, the Forfeiture
was to accrue to the common Benefit of the rest
not failing; and we do deny that the Argument of
Interest was at all waved by us: And we conceive
these Wants alledged by your Lordships (if any such
were), in justifying the Cessation, were supplied, from
Time to Time, by the Houses of Parliament, until
His Majesty's Forces were so quartered in and about
the common Roads to Ireland, that Provisions going
thither were intercepted, and neither Monies, Cloaths,
Victuals, or other Things, could pass by Land with
Safety to be transported; and when that both Houses
of Parliament were desirous further to supply those
Wants, and for that Purpose did tender a Bill to His
Majesty, it was refused: And we still alledge, that we
have no Reason to be satisfied concerning the Cessation, by any Arguments used by your Lordships, or
by any Thing contained in the Extracts of the Letters and Papers delivered to us by your Lordships, as
from the Lords Justices and Council of Ireland, and
the Officers of the Army; nor, though desired by
us, have your Lordships afforded us Liberty to compare those Extracts with the Originals, whereby we
might have the Names of the Persons by whom they
were written, which we now again desire. We are
therefore still clearly of Opinion, as is expressed in our
former Paper of the 10th of February, concerning the
Cessation; and do desire your Lordships full Answer
to our Demands concerning Ireland.
"By Command of the Commissioners for
the Parliaments of both Kingdoms.
"Exam'r.
"John Thurloe.
Jo. Cheisly."
King's Commissioners justify the Cessation; and assign the Reasons why the King did not pass the Bill for raising more Money for Ireland, as the former Money raised for that Purpose was diverted to other Uses.
"18 Febr. 1644.
"We did not conceive that your Lordships had believed that any Arguments used by you could satisfy
us against His Majesty's Power to make a Cessation
with the Rebels in Ireland, which appears to have
been made by Him by the Advice of His Council
there, and for the Preservation of His Majesty's Protestant Subjects of that Kingdom, who in all Probability would have perished by Famine and the
Sword, if that Cessation had not been made; and
we shall be very ready to receive further Information
from your Lordships, by Conference or otherwise,
in that Particular, either concerning any Clauses in
the Statute, or Arguments of Common Law, or Proceedings of Parliament (your Lordships having never
mentioned the one, or made any Case upon the other),
upon which you intend (fn. *) to insist: And for the several great Sums of Money that were paid by particular Persons and Corporations upon that Statute
mentioned by your Lordships, we are sorry that we
are compelled, by your Lordships insisting thereon,
to inform your Lordships, that His Majesty had clear
Information, that not only much of the Money raised
by the Act for the Four Hundred Thousand Pounds,
which was passed for the better suppressing that most
wicked and execrable Rebellion in Ireland, and for
the Payment of the Debts of this Kingdom, but also
of the Money raised by the Statute (on which your
Lordships insist) for the speedy and effectual reducing of the Rebels of Ireland, &c. and other Monies
raised by Contribution and Loan for the Relief of His
Majesty's distressed Subjects of that Kingdom, were
(fn. †) expended (contrary to the Intent of the Acts by
which the same were levied, and of the Persons who
lent and contributed the same) towards the Maintenance of the Forces in this Kingdom under the
Command of the Earl of Essex; and that many Regiments of Horse and Foot, levied for the War of
Ireland, under the Command of the Lord Wharton,
the Lord Kerrey, Sir Faithfull Fortescue, and others,
were likewise employed in that Army under the Earl
of Essex, at Edge Hill; and therefore His Majesty
refused to consent to the Bill presented to His Majesty after this, for the levying more Money for Ireland, justly fearing that the same might be used as
the former had been: And for the few Cloaths (for
there were no Monies) intercepted by His Majesty's
Soldiers in His Majesty's Quarters, which are said to
be intended for Ireland, the same were intercepted
near Coventry, and going thither, after that City had
refused to receive His Majesty though at the Gates:
But His Majesty never refused to give any safe Pass
through (fn. ‡) His Quarters for any Goods or Provisions
which were intended or prepared for Ireland; neither
was the same ever desired. Forthe Extracts and Copies
of Letters delivered by us to your Lordships from
the Lords Justices and Council of Ireland, and the
Officers of the Army, we have been and are willing
that your Lordships should compare them with the
Originals; but for your having the Names of the
Persons who writ the same (since there can be no
Doubt of the Truth of our Assertion), we conceive it
not reasonable to deliver the same, not knowing what
Inconveniency any of them might incur (since you
seem not to like that Advice), if at any Time they
should be found within your Quarters. And having
now satisfied your Lordships in the Matter of the
Cessation, we shall gladly proceed in the Treaty with
your Lordships, upon any Thing that may be apparently good for His Majesty's Protestant Subjects
there, and the re-settling of (fn. *) that Kingdom in His
Majesty's Obedience.
"By Command of His Majesty's Commissioners.
"Exam'r,
"John Thurloe Secretary.
Wm. Dugdale.
Daniel Earle Secretary.
Nic. Oudart."
Parliament's Commissioners insist on their Demands concerning Ireland; that the Money made Use of was reimbursed; and that the King had used all possible Means to prevent the raising Money to suppress the Rebellion there.
"18 Febr. 1644.
"We do conceive that the Arguments used by us
might have fully satisfied your Lordships against
His Majesty's Power to make a Cessation with the
Rebels in Ireland, having answered whatever your
Lordships hath hitherto alledged to the contrary,
and offered, if any Doubts yet remain, by Conference to clear them, which still we are ready to
do; and we have heard nothing just or reasonable
for that Cessation: It will be made evident that the
Necessities, which by your Lordships were made
Excuses for the Cessation, were created on Purpose
to colour the same; and we are compelled, by your
Lordships Paper, to let you know, that the Committees of Parliament, sent into Ireland to endeavour
to supply their Necessities, were discountenanced by
the principal Instruments for that Cessation; and,
when they had taken up Two Thousand Pounds,
upon their Personal Security, for the Army there,
they were presently after commanded from the Council, by a Letter brought thither from His Majesty
by the Lord Ormond's Secretary; and when the Officers of the Army were contented to subscribe for
Land in Satisfaction of their Arrears, it was declared from His Majesty, that He disapproved of
such Subscriptions, whereby that Course was diverted. And we do affirm, that whatever Sums of Money raised for Ireland were made Use of by both
Houses of Parliament were fully satisfied, with Advantage; and, as we are informed, before the Bill
mentioned in our former Paper was refused by His
Majesty. And for the Regiments of Horse and
Foot, mentioned by your Lordships to be raised for
Ireland, and employed otherwise by the Houses of
Parliament, it is true that Forces were so designed;
and, when the Money, Arms, and other Provisions,
were all ready, and nothing wanting but a Commission from His Majesty for the Lord Wharton, who
was to command them, the same could not be obtained, which was the Cause these Forces did not go
thither: And when Twelve Ships and Six Pinnaces
were prepared, with One Thousand or more Land
Forces, for the Service of Ireland, and nothing desired but a Commission from His Majesty, the Ships
lying ready, and staying for the same near Three
Weeks together, (fn. *) at Three Hundred Pounds a Day
Charge, yet the same was denied, though often desired. And where your Lordships seem to imply
that the Provisions seized by His Majesty's Forces
were going from Coventry, it was made known to His
Majesty that the same were for Ireland. And your
Lordships must needs conceive that (the Papers you
delivered to us being but Extracts, and for that
you deny us so to compare them with the Originals
as to have the Names of the Persons by whom they
were written) it is altogether unreasonable for us to
give any Credit to them; it being manifest, by this
and our former Papers and Debates, that the Cessation with the Rebels in Ireland is both unjust and
unlawful: And therefore we insist on our Demands
concerning Ireland, as apparently good for His Majesty's Subjects there, and for the reducing of that
Kingdom to His Majesty's Obedience.
"By Command of the Commissioners
for the Parliaments of both Kingdoms.
"Exam'r.
"John Thurloe.
Jo. Cheisly."
King's Commissioners desire to know, if the Article in the Treaty with the Scots, that no Treaty of Peace shall be made without mutual Consent, extends to Ireland.
"19 Febr. 1644.
"In the Eighth Article of the Treaty for the coming
of the Scotts Army into England, dated 29 Nov.
at Edinburgh, delivered to us by your Lordships
amongst the Papers for Ireland, and desired by the
Twelfth Proposition to be confirmed by Act of Parliament, it is agreed, that no Cessation, or any Pacification or Agreement for Peace whatsoever, shall
be made by either Kingdom, without the mutual
Advice and Consent of both Kingdoms, or the Committees in that Behalf appointed, (fn. *) who are to have
full Power for the same, in case the Houses of the
Parliament of England, or the Parliament or Convention of Estates of Scotland, shall not sit. We desire to know, whether that Article extend to any
Cessation, Pacification, or Agreement, in Ireland.
"By Command of His Majesty's Commissioners.
"Exam'r,
"John Thurloe Secretary.
Wm. Dugdale.
Daniel Earle Secretary.
Nic. Oudart."
The Treaty already delivered to them.
"19 Februarii, 1644.
"We did, in Answer to your Lordships Paper of
the First of February, upon the Propositions concerning Religion, deliver the Treaty of the 29th of Nov.
1643, mentioned in your Lordships, and not among
the Papers for Ireland, to which (fn. †) it hath no Relation.
"By Command of the Commissioners
for the Parliaments of both Kingdoms.
"Exam'r.
"John Thurloe.
Jo. Cheisly."
King's Commissioners desire to know, if either Kingdom has a Negative, with regard to the Management of the War in Ireland.
"19 Febr. 1644.
"By the Thirteenth Proposition, it is demanded, that
an Act be passed, to settle the Prosecution of the
War of Ireland in both Houses of Parliament of
England, to be managed by joint Advices of both
Kingdoms: We desire to know, whether, if the Two
Kingdoms shall not agree in their Advice touching
the War, each have a Negative Voice; or whether
the Scotts Commander in Chief of the Forces in Ireland may manage the War, in such Case, according
to his own Discretion.
"By Command of His Majesty's Commissioners.
"Exam'r,
"John Thurloe Secretary.
Wm. Ducdale.
Daniel Earle Secretary.
Nic. Oudart."
The Irish War to be managed by a Committee of both Kingdoms; but, in Case of a Disagreement, by the Two Houses here.
"19 Febr. 1644.
"In Answer to your Lordships Second Paper, the
Prosecution of the War of Ireland is to be settled in
the Two Houses of the Parliament of England; but
is to be managed by a joint Committee of both Kingdoms, wherein the Committees of each Kingdom hath
a Negative Voice; but, in Cases of Disagreement, the
Houses of the Parliament of England may prosecute the
War as they shall think fit, observing the Treaty of the
6th of August, 1642, between the Two Houses and the
Estates of the Parliament of Scotland, and the Ordinance of the 11th of April, 1644, formerly delivered
to your Lordships.
"By Command of the Commissioners for
the Parliaments of both Kingdoms.
"Exam'r,
"Jo. Thurloe.
Jo. Cheisly."
King's Commissioners desire to know, who is to nominate the Lord Deputy and Officers for Ireland, in the Intervals of Parliament.
"19 Febr. 1644.
"By the Twentieth Proposition, in the Intervals of
Parliament, the Commissioners for the Militia have
Power to nominate the Lord Deputy of Ireland, and
other Officers and Judges there. We desire to know,
whether that Power be limited to the Commissioners
of both Kingdoms, or only to the Commissioners for
England; and whether, in such Cases, the Commissioners in Scotland shall vote as single Persons.
"By Command of His Majesty's Commissioners.
"Exam'r,
"John Thurloe Secretary.
Wm. Dugdale.
Daniel Earle Secretary.
Nic. Oudart."
The Nomination to be in the Commissioners of the Parliament of England for the Militia.
19 Febr. 1644.
"The Powers of the Commissioners, in the Intervals
of Parliament, to nominate the Lord Deputy of Ireland, and other Officers and Judges there mentioned,
in the Twentieth Proposition, being no Matters of
joint Concernment, is to be limited to the Commissioners for the Parliament of England, wherein, we
conceive, the Commissioners are to vote as single
Persons.
"By Command of the Commissioners for
the Parliament of both Kingdoms.
"Exam'r,
"Jo. Thurloe.
Jo. Cheisly."
King's Commissioners desire to know, whether the Lord Deputy, or the Scots Commander, is to command the Forces in Chief.
"19 Febr. 1644.
"The Articles of the Treaty of the 6th of August
giving Power to the Lieutenant of Ireland, when the
Scottish Army shall be joined with his Army, to give
Instructions to the Scottish Commander in Chief;
and the Orders of the Two Houses, of the 9th of
March, 1644, and the 11th of April, 1644, appointing the General of the Scottish Forces in Ireland to
command in Chief over all the Forces, as well Brittish as Scotts, and both being desired to be enacted;
we desire to know, whether the Lieutenant of Ireland
shall command the Scottish Forces, or whether the
Scottish General shall command all Forces both Brittish and Scotts.
"By Command of His Majesty's Commissioners.
"Exam'r,
"John Thurloe Secretary.
Wm. Dugdale.
Daniel Earle Secretary.
Nic. Oudart."
Parliament's Commissioners will answer it, when there is a Lord Deputy appointed.
"19 Febr. 1644.
"In Answer to your Lordships Fourth Paper, we
say that the Ordinances of the 9th and 11th of April,
1644, were made when there was no Lieutenant of
Ireland; and, when a Lieutenant shall be made by the
Approbation of both Houses, according to former
Demands in the Seventeenth and Twentieth Proposition, it will be a fitting Time to give further Answer
to your Lordships.
"By Command of the Commissioners
for the Parliaments of both Kingdoms.
"Exam'r,
"Daniel Earle.
Jo. Cheisly."
King's Commissioners desire to know; if the E. of Leven is to observe the Directions of the Commissioners for the Militia.
19 Febr. 1644.
"The last Part of the Seventeenth Proposition gives
Power to the Commissioners for the Militia of both
Kingdoms, as a joint Committee, to order the War
of Ireland, according to the Ordinance of the 11th of
April; and to order the Militia, and conserve the
Peace, of the Kingdom of Ireland; and, by that Act
of the 11th of April, the Earl of Leven being appointed Commander in Chief over all the Forces, as
well Brittish as Scotts, we desire to know whether he
shall be subordinate to these Commissioners for the
Militia, and be obliged to observe such Orders as he
shall receive from them.
"By Command of His Majesty's Commissioners.
"Exam'r,
"John Thurloe Secretary.
Wm. Dugdale.
Daniel Earle Secretary.
Nic. Oudart."
E. of Leven to observe the Orders of the Commissioners.
"19 Febr. 1644.
"The Commissioners of the Militia, desired by the
Seventeenth Proposition, are to order the War of
Ireland according to the Ordinance of the 11th of
April; and the Earl of Leven, being by that Ordinance Commander in Chief of the Forces there, is
obliged to observe such Orders as he shall receive
from those Commissioners.
"By Command of the Commissioners for
the Parliaments of both Kingdoms.
"Exam'r,
"Daniel Earle.
Jo. Cheisly."
Parliament's Commissioners desire no Cessation may be treated of, without Consent of both Houses.
"19 Febr. 1644.
"We desire that no Cessation of Arms or Peace in
Ireland may be treated upon, or concluded, without
Consent of both Houses of the Parliament of England.
"By Command of the Commissioners for
the Parliaments of both Kingdoms.
"Exam'r,
"John Thurloe.
Jo. Cheisly."
They desire to know, if any Cessation is granted, or on Foot.
"19 Febr. 1644.
"We desire to know, whether any Peace or Cessation
of Arms in Ireland be consented unto by His Majesty, and for what Time; and whether any Commission be now on Foot, or other Authority given by His
Majesty, for that Purpose.
"By Command of the Commissioners for
the Parliaments of both Kingdoms.
"Exam'r,
"John Thurloe.
Jo. Cheisly."
They desire a Conference, about disposing of the Three remaining Days of the Treaty.
19 Februarii, 1644.
"There being but Three Days left to treat upon the
Propositions for Religion, the Militia, and Ireland;
and for that your Lordships having given no satisfactory Answer to our Demands concerning them;
we therefore now desire to confer with your Lordships, how to dispose of the Three Days yet remaining, that we may receive your Lordships full and
clear Answers thereunto.
"By Command of the Commissioners for
the Parliaments of both Kingdoms.
"Exam'r,
"John Thurloe.
Jo. Cheisly."
King's Commissioners will give it; and a full Answer about Ireland.
19 Febr, 1644.
"We see no Cause why your Lordships should think
our Answers upon the Propositions for Religion and
the Militia were not satisfactory; and for that of
Ireland, we have received many Papers from your
Lordships concerning that Business, besides the Propositions themselves; to all which we doubt not to
give a full and clear Answer to your Lordships Tomorrow, being the Time assigned, and the last Day
for Treaty upon that Subject. After which, we shall
be ready to confer with your Lordships of disposing
the Remainder of the Time.
"By Command of His Majesty's Commissioners.
"Exam'r,
"Jo. Thurloe Secretary.
Wm. Dugdale.
Daniel Earle Secretary.
Nic. Oudart."
Time of delivering the Treaty with the Scots to the King's Commissioners.
"20 Febr. 1644.
"Your Lordships did (fn. *) deliver the Treaty of the 29th
of November, 1642, to us, with the Papers concerning Ireland, on the 3d Day of this Instant February,
and not upon the First of February, upon the Propositions concerning Religion.
"By Command of His Majesty's Commissioners.
"Exam'r,
"John Thurloe Secretary.
Wm. Dugdale.
Daniel Earle Secretary.
Nic. Oudart."
Paper from the Parliament's Commissioners about it.
"20 Febr. 1644.
"When your Lordships peruse your Papers, you
will rest satisfied with our Answer of the 19th of this
Instant to your First Paper that Day given to us;
for it will appear, by your Lordships Third Paper
of the 1st of February, and our Paper given to your
Lordships in Answer to it, that the Treaty of the
Date at Edinburgh, 29th November, 1643, was delivered to your Lordships on the First of February,
upon the Propositions of Religion, and not upon the
3d of February, with the Papers concerning Ireland.
"By Command of the Commissioners of
the Parliaments of both Kingdoms.
"Exam'r,
"Jo. Thurloe.
Jo. Cheisly."
King's Commissioners desire an Answer about the Power of the Lord Deputy and the Scotts Commander in Ireland.
"20 Febr. 1644.
"We desire a full Answer from your Lordships to
our Fourth Paper delivered to your Lordships Yesterday, concerning the Power of the Lord Lieutenant
of Ireland, and the General of the Scotts Forces;
your Lordships having proposed to us that the Articles of the Treaty, and the Ordinance of the 11th
of April, be enacted by His Majesty; by One of
which, the General of the Scotts Forces is to receive
Instructions for the managing of the War there from
the Lieutenant of Ireland; and by the other (which
is the latter), the General of the Scotts Forces is to
command in Chief both the Brittish and Scotts Forces;
by which it seems the Lieutenant of that Kingdom
is to have no Power in the Prosecution of that War.
"By Command of His Majesty's Commissioners.
"Exam'r,
"John Thurloe.
Wm. Dugdale.
Daniel Earle.
Nic. Oudart."
Scots Commander in Chief there to be under the Lord Deputy, and the War to be managed by the joint Advice of both Kingdoms.
"20 Febr. 1644.
"We do insist upon our former Papers, that the
Prosecution of the War in Ireland is to be settled in
both Houses of Parliament, and is to be managed
by the joint Advice of both Kingdoms, as in those
Papers is set down; and when a Lieutenant of Ireland shall be appointed, as is expressed in the Propositions, and if it shall be necessary for the Good
of the Service that he and the Commander in Chief
of the Scottish Army join, the Commander of the
Scottish Army shall receive Instructions from the Lord
Lieutenant, or Deputy, or of whom shall have the
Chief Government of that Kingdom for the Time,
according to the Order which shall be given by the
Commissioners of both Kingdoms.
"By Command of the Commissioners for
the Parliaments of both Kingdoms.
"Exam'r,
"Dan. Earle.
Jo. Cheisly."
King's Commissioners Arguments, to support His Right to grant the Cessation in Ireland, and to shew the Necessary for it.
"20 Febr. 1644.
"We have already told your Lordships, how far
we are from being satisfied by what you have alledged against His Majesty's Power to make a Cessation
with the Rebels in Ireland; neither have your Lordships in any Degree answered the important Reasons
which induced His Majesty so to do; it being very
evident that, by the Cessation there, His Majesty's
Protestant Subjects have been preserved and subsisted,
which without it they could not have done, the Two
Houses forbearing to send any Relief or Supply to
them, and His Majesty not being able; and we desire your Lordships to consider, how impossible it
was, whilst the War continued in England with such
Fierceness and Animosity, by Arms to reduce the
Kingdom of Ireland to His Majesty's Obedience;
and therefore His Majesty had great Reason to preserve that by a Cessation, which He could not reduce
by a War; and we are most confident, that the Necessities (which are not offered as Excuses for, but
were the real Grounds of, the Cessation) were very
visible to all these in that Kingdom, whose Advices
His Majesty ought in Reason to follow, and whose
Interests were most concerned, and would not have
given such Advice if any other Way could have
been found out to preserve them: And we have been
credibly informed, that the Committee sent into Ireland (which His Majesty never understood to be sent
thither to supply their Necessities, but to observe the
Actions of His Majesty's Ministers there, having,
in their Journey thither, signed Warrants in their
own Names, to apprehend the Persons of Peers of
this Realm, and Persons of His Majesty's Privy Council) were never discountenanced there; for His Majesty's Directions, that Persons who were not of His
Privy Council there should not be present at those
Councils, cannot be interpreted a Discountenance to
them in any Thing they ought to do: And we are
most assured, that His Majesty sent no Message or
Letter to divert the Course of the Officers subscribing for Land, in Satisfaction of their Arrears; but
the Soldiers were meerly discouraged from the same,
by discerning that, for Want of Supplies, they should
not be able to go on with that War: And we do assure your Lordships, that His Majesty doth not believe that the Sums of Money raised for Ireland (which
your Lordships do admit to have been made Use of
by both Houses of Parliament otherwise than was appointed) are yet satisfied in any Proportion; the
greatest Part of the Monies raised upon the Bill for
Four Hundred Thousand Pounds, and of the Monies
raised upon the charitable Collections, as well as the
Adventurers Monies, being employed upon the War
here; and if the same were since satisfied, it doth no
Ways excuse the diverting of them, when, in the
mean Time, that Kingdom suffered by that Division;
and that the Fear that other Monies so raised might
likewise be misemployed was not a great Reason
amongst others, that made His Majesty not consent
to that Bill mentioned by your Lordships: And for
the Regiments of Horse and Foot, which your Lordships, in your Paper of the 18th of this Month, say
were designed for Ireland, though they were employed (fn. *) otherwise because a Commission could not be
obtained for the Lord Wharton who was to command those Forces, it is well known that those Forces
were raised before His Majesty's Commission was so
much as desired, and then the Commission that was
desired should have been independent upon His Majesty's Lieutenant of that Kingdom; and therefore His
Majesty had great Reason not to consent to such a Commission; and so the Damages of keeping these Six
Pinnaces and the Thousand Land Forces (if any such
were) proceeded not from any Default of His Majesty: And for the Provisions seized by His Majesty's
Forces, it is notorious that they were seized in the
Way to and near Coventry; and that it was not made
known to His Majesty that the same were for Ireland
till after the Seizure thereof, when it was impossible
to recover the same from the Soldiers who had taken
them; whereas, if a safe Conduct had been desired
from His Majesty, as it ought to have been, the same
being to pass through His Quarters, there would have
been no Violence or Interruption offered: For the
giving the Names of the Persons who subscribed the
Letters delivered to your Lordships (the Originals
of which have been shewed to you by us), we have
given your Lordships a full and reasonable Answer;
and if your Lordships will assure us, that the giving
their Names to you shall be no Prejudice to the Persons who did subscribe, if any Time any of them
shall be found within your Quarters, we will forthwith deliver their Names to you; otherwise we conceive your Lordships cannot but give Credit to what
we have said and shewed to you: All which, we hope,
hath clearly satisfied your Lordships, that the Cessation with the Rebels was neither unjust or unlawful; and that you will proceed to satisfy us by what
Means the War may be managed in Ireland, with
probable Hope of the Preservation of His Majesty's
Protestant Subjects there, we being very willing to
concur with your Lordships in any just and honourable Way for the Good and Settlement of that miserable Kingdom.
"By Command of His Majesty's Commissioners.
"Exam'r,
"John Thurloe.
Wm. Dugdale.
Daniel Earle.
Nic. Oudart."
Parliament's Commissioners Answer to them.
"20 Februarii, 1644.
"We expected that your Lordships would have been
fully satisfied, by that we have alledged against His
Majesty's Power to make the Cessation with the Rebels in Ireland; and we cannot find those important
Reasons which your Lordships mention, to have induced His Majesty so to do, or that thereby His Majesty's Protectant Subjects there have been preserved,
or subsisted; but we have made it evident, that this
Cessation tended to the utter Destruction of the Protestants in that Kingdom, as we conceive was designed by those who advised His Majesty thereunto;
and we observe your Lordships urge, that this Cessation was the only Means for the Subsistence of the
Protestants there, when it cannot be denied that very
many of the Protestants, in Ulster, Munster, and Connaght, have yet subsisted, although they have refused to submit to that Cessation, and opposed the
same as the Means intended for their Ruin; and we
do affirm unto your Lordships, that the Two Houses
of Parliament have been so far from failing to supply
His Majesty's good Subjects in that Kingdom, that,
although His Majesty's Forces have as much as in
their Power endeavoured to prevent the same, and
have taken to themselves that which was provided
for those whom your Lordships mention to have been
in so great Want and Extremity, yet the Two Houses,
not discouraged thereby, have constantly sent great
Proportions of all necessary Supplies unto the Protestants there, whereby they have subsisted; and have
very lately sent thither, and have already provided to
be speedily sent after, in Money, Victual, Cloaths,
Ammunition, and other Necessaries, to the Value of
Sevenscore Thousand Pounds; and they have not desired any other Provision from His Majesty but what
He was well abled to afford herein, only His Assistance and Consent in joining with the Two Houses
of Parliament, for the better enabling them in the
Prosecution of that War; and so far from apprehending any Impossibility of reducing that Kingdom
during the unhappy Distractions here, that, although
many of the Forces provided by the Two Houses for
that End were diverted, and employed against the Parliament, to the increasing of our Distractions, yet the
Protestants in Ireland have subsisted, and do still subsist; and we have just Cause to believe, that, if this
Cessation had not been obtained by the Rebels (and
that in the Time of their greatest Wants), and that
those Forces had not been withdrawn, they might in
Probability have subdued those bloody Rebels, and
finished the War in that Kingdom: For the pretended Necessities offered as Grounds of this Cessation, we have already given your Lordships (we
hope) clear Information; for the Persons (fn. *) whose Advice His Majesty followed therein, your Lordships
have not thought fit to make them known unto us,
and we cannot conceive their Interest in that Kingdom to be of such Consideration as is by your Lordships supposed; but we know very well, that many
Persons of all Sorts have forsaken that Kingdom,
rather than they would submit unto this Cessation;
and great Numbers of considerable Persons, and other
Protestants, yet remaining there, have opposed, and
still do oppose, that Cessation, as the visible Means of
their Destruction. The Two Houses sent their Committees into Ireland, for the better supplying and encouraging of the Armies there, and to take an Account of the State of the War, to be represented hither, that what should be found defective might be
supplied: What Warrants there issued, we are ignorant of; but are well assured, that what they did was
in Pursuance of their Duty, and for Advancement
of the Public Service, and suppressing of that horrid
Rebellion; and we cannot but still affirm, they were
discountenanced and commanded from the Council
there, where the Prosecution of that War was to be
managed; and that it was declared from His Majesty, that He disapproved of the Subscriptions of
the Officers of the Army, by Means whereof that
Course was diverted. Concerning the Monies raised
for Ireland, we have in our former Paper given your
Lordships a full and just Answer; and we are sorry
the same cannot receive Credit: Those Monies raised
upon charitable Collections, we do positively affirm,
were only employed to those Ends for which they
were given; and we cannot but wonder the contrary
should be suggested. We are confident, the Commission desired by the Two Houses for the Lord
Wharton (and which your Lordships acknowledge was
denied) was only such as they conceived most necessary
for Advancement of that Service, and the Denial thereof proved very prejudicial thereunto: And we must
(fn. †) again inform your Lordships, that it was well known,
that at the Time when the Goods were seized by His
Majesty's Forces, as your Lordships alledge, near
Coventry, that the same were then carrying for the
Supply of the Protestants in Ireland; and some other
Provisions, made and sent for the same Purpose, were
likewise seized and taken away by some of His Majesty's Forces, as we have been credibly informed not
without His Majesty's own Knowledge and Direction. Your Lordships may believe, that those who
signed the Letters mentioned in your Papers have
done nothing but what they may well justify; and if
the same be well done, they need not fear to give an
Account thereof, nor your Lordships to suppose that,
if they come within our Quarters, they shall be otherwise dealt withall than shall be agreeable to Justice.
Upon the whole Matter, notwithstanding the Allegations, Pretences, and Excuses, offered by your
Lordships, for the Cessation made with the Rebels in
Ireland, we are clearly satisfied that the same was altogether unjust, unlawful, and destructive to His Majesty's good Subjects, and of Advantage to none but
the Popish bloody Rebellion in that Kingdom; and
therefore we still earnestly insist, as we conceive ourselves in Conscience and Duty obliged, upon our former Demands concerning Ireland, which we conceive
most just and honourable for His Majesty to consent
unto. We know no other Means to propound more
probable for the reducing of (fn. *) the Rebels there; and
these being granted, we shall chearfully proceed in the
managing of that War, and doubt not but, by God's
Blessing, we shall speedily settle that Kingdom in their
due Obedience to His Majesty.
"By Command of the Commissioners for
the Parliaments of both Kingdoms.
"Exam'r,
"Daniel Earle.
Jo. Cheisly."
King's Commissioners Answer, about the Cessation being granted, or a Treaty on Foot in Ireland.
"20 Febr. 1644.
"To your Lordships Sixth and Seventh Papers delivered to us Yesterday, concerning any Peace or Cessation of Arms in Ireland; your Lordships well know,
that (fn. †) long after the War begun in this Kingdom,
and for Want of a Supply from hence, that a Cessation hath been made, with His Majesty's Consent;
and we conceive that the same expires in March next,
and we are consident there is no Peace made there:
But for the making a Peace, or a further Cessation,
we can give no further Answer, till we may know
whether there may be a blessed Peace made in England; since, if the miserable Civil Wars shall continue in this Kingdom, we cannot conceive it possible for His Majesty by Force to reduce the Kingdom
of Ireland, or to preserve His Protestant Subjects there,
without a Peace or Cessation.
"By Command of His Majesty's Commissioners.
"Exam'r,
"John Thurloe.
Wm. Dugdale.
Daniel Earle.
Nic Oudart."
Parliament's Commissioners desire a clear Answer, whether any Treaty is on Foot in Ireland.
"20 Febr. 1644.
"We conceive your Lordships have given no Answer to us, whether any Commission be now on Foot,
or other Authority given by His Majesty, for any
Peace or Cessation of Arms in Ireland, other than
that which determines in March next; nor to our
Desire that no Cessation of Arms or Peace in Ireland may be treated upon or concluded, without Consent of both Houses of the Parliament of England;
nor do we understand why your Lordships should
delay your Answer herein till the Peace of England
be concluded, since it hath been clearly manifested to
your Lordships, by the true Meaning of the Acts
passed by His Majesty this Parliament, that His Majesty can make no Peace nor Cessation without the
Consent of the Two Houses; and that your Lordships satisfactory Answer to this, and our other Demands concerning Ireland, will much conduce to the
settling the Peace of this Kingdom: We therefore
again desire your Lordships full and clear Answer to
the Particulars expressed in our Sixth and Seventh Papers, Yesterday delivered to your Lordships.
"By Command of the Commissioners for
the Parliaments of both Kingdoms.
"Exam'r,
"John Thurloe.
Jo. Cheisly."
King's Commissioner Reasons, why the Management of the War in Ireland should not be in the Two Houses here, by the joint Advice of both Kingdoms.
"20 Februarii, 1644.
"Having given your Lordships clear Reasons why
the Cessation which hath been made in Ireland is not
in Reason or Justice to be made void, and the making void thereof (if the same might be done) is not,
nor cannot be, for the Benefit or Advantage of His
Majesty's Protestant Subjects in that Kingdom, so
long as the unhappy Wars in this Kingdom continue; to the Part of your Lordships First Paper
concerning Ireland, for the Prosecution of the War
there to be settled in both Houses of the Parliament of
England, to be managed by the joint Advice of both
Kingdoms, and His Majesty to assist; we say,
"That appears by the other Papers delivered to us
by your Lordships, as the Articles of the Sixth of
August, and the Ordinances of the 11th of April, 9th
of March, and otherwise, that the Intent is, that that
War shall be managed by a joint Committee of both
Kingdoms, and that the Committee of each Kingdom shall have a Negative Voice; and consequently
it is very probable, that, upon Difference of Opinion
between them, that War may stand still, or, to the
utter Ruin of His Majesty's Subjects there, be absolutely dissolved: For whereas your Lordships say,
that, in case of such Disagreement, the Houses of
the Parliament of England may prosecute the War
as they shall think fit, observing the Treaty of the
6th of August, 1642, and the Ordinance of the 11th
of April; your Lordships well know, that, by that
Treaty and that Ordinance, the Two Houses of the
Parliament of England alone cannot prosecute that
War, that Ordinance of the 11th of April expressly
making the Earl of Leven, the Scotts General, Commander in Chief of all Forces in that Kingdom both
Brittish and Scotts, without any Reference to His Majesty, or His Lieutenant of that Kingdom, and directing that the War shall be managed by the Committee
of both Kingdoms, without any other Reference to
the Two Houses of the Parliament of England; and
therefore we cannot consent that such an Act of Parliament be passed, for the Confirmation of that Treaty,
or the Ordinance of the 11th of April, as your Lordships propose, by reason thereby all His Majesty's
Authority would be wholly taken away in that Kingdom, and in Truth that whole Kingdom be thereby
delivered into the Hands of His Majesty's Subjects
of Scotland, which, we conceive, is neither just, prudent, or honourable to done: And we are of Opinion,
that it is not agreeable to His Majesty's Honour, or
the Justice or Protection which He owes to His Subjects of (fn. *) His Kingdom of Ireland, to put the Nomination of His Lieutenant and Judges of that Kingdom
out of Himself, and to commit the whole Power of
that Kingdom to others; and to bind Himself to pass
all such Acts of Parliament as any Time hereafter
shall be presented to Him, for raising of Monies, and
other Things necessary for Prosecution of the War in
that Kingdom, which your Lordships say, in your
Paper of the 9th of this Instant, you intend by those
Words ["His Majesty to assist"], in your First Paper:
And we conceive it cannot be expected that His Majesty should consent to an Act of Parliament for Prosecution of the War in Ireland, to be managed by the
joint Advice of the Houses of Parliament here and
the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland, so long as
the War in this Kingdom shall continue.
"For these and many other Reasons, we conceive, it
(fn. †) doth appear to your Lordships, that the Propositions, as they are delivered to us by your Lordships,
are by no Means fit to be consented to; and therefore
we desire your Lordships to make other Propositions
to us, which may be for the Preservation and Relief
of his Majesty's Protestant Subjects there, and for
the Settlement of that Kingdom, in which we shall
very readily concur; and we shall be very willing
that the Business of that Kingdom shall, after a Peace
settled in this, be taken into Consideration, and or
dered as His Majesty and both Houses of Parliament
here shall think fit.
"By Command of His Majesty's Commissioners.
"Exam'r,
"John Thurloe.
Wm. Dugdale.
Daniel Earle.
Nic. Oudart."
Parliament's Commissioners Answer to them.
"20 Februarii, 1644.
"We cannot understand how, out of any of the Papers, Articles, or Ordinances, delivered by us unto your
Lordships, there should be a Ground for your Opinion,
that, upon any Difference between the Committees or
Commanders employed about the War of Ireland, the
War should stand still, or be dissolved; nor do we find
that the Ordinance of the 11th of April can produce
any such Inconveniency as your Lordships do imagine; nor doth the making the Earl of Leven Commander of the Scottish and Brittish Forces, and the settling of the Prosecution of the War of Ireland in the
Two Houses of the Parliament of England, to be managed by the joint Advice of both Kingdoms, take
away the Relation to His Majesty's Authority, or of
the Two Houses of Parliament, or of the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland; for, in the First Place, His Majesty's Consent is humbly desired, and the whole Power
is derived from Him; only the Execution of it is put
into such a Way, and the General is to carry on the
War according to the Orders he shall receive from
the Committee of both Kingdoms; and, in case of
Disagreement in the Committee, the Two Houses of
Parliament are to prosecute the War, as is expressed
in our Answer to your Lordships Second Paper of the
19th of February; and when there shall be a Lieutenant of Ireland, and that he shall join with the
Commander in Chief of the Scottish Army, the said
Commander is to receive Instructions from him, according to the Orders of the Commissioners of both
Kingdoms, as we have said in our Answer to your
Lordships Second Paper of this Day; nor doth the
Earl of Leven to be General any more take away the
Power of the Two Houses, than if he were a Native
of this Kingdom; or is there any Part of the Kingdom of Ireland delivered over into the Hands of His
Majesty's Subjects of the Kingdom of Scotland, who
do only join with their Counsels and Forces, for carrying on the War, and reducing that Kingdom to His
Majesty's Obedience; and we conceive it most conducing for the Good of His Majesty's Service, and
of that Kingdom, that the Lieutenant and Judges
there should be nominated by the Two Houses of
Parliament, as is expressed in the Twentieth Proposition, who will recommend none to be employed by
His Majesty, in Places of so great Trust, but such
whose known Abilities and Integrity shall make them
worthy of them, which must needs be best known to
a Parliament; nor are they to have any greater Power
conferred upon them, by the granting of this Proposition, than they have had who did formerly execute those Places; and we know no Reason why
your Lordships should make Difficulty of His Majesty's consenting to such Acts as shall be presented
unto Him, for raising Monies and other Necessaries
from the Subject, which is without any Charge to
Himself, and is for no other End but the settling of
the true Protestant Religion in that Kingdom, and reducing it to His Majesty's Obedience, for which we
hold nothing too dear that can be employed by us:
And we cannot but wonder, that your Lordships
should make the Prosecution of that War of Ireland,
which is but to execute Justice upon those bloody
Rebels who have broken all Laws of God and Man,
their Faith, their Allegiance, all Bonds of Charity,
all Rules of Humanity and human Society; who have
butchered so many Thousands of innocent Christians,
Men, Women, and Children, whose Blood cried up
to Heaven for Vengeance, so many of His Majesty's
Subjects, whose Lives He is bound to require at their
Hands that spilt them, and to do Justice upon them,
to put away innocent Blood from Himself, His Posterity, the whole Land. These execrable Antichristian
Rebels, who have a Covenant with Hell to destroy
the Gospel of Christ, and have taken up Arms to
destroy the Protestant Religion, and set up Popery,
to rend away One of His Majesty's Kingdoms, and
to deliver it up into the Hands of Strangers, for
which they have Negotiations with Spaine and other
States. A War which must prevent so much Mischief, do so much Good, offer up such an acceptable Sacrifice to the great and just God of Heaven, who groans under so much Wickedness to lie so
long unpunished; a War which must reduce that
Kingdom unto His Majesty's Obedience, the most
glorious Work that this Kingdom can undertake; that
the Prosecution of such a War your Lordships should
make to depend upon any other Condition, that the
Distractions of these Kingdoms should be laid as Impediment unto it, and there should be any Thought,
any Thing, which should give those Rebels Hope of
Impunity, if our Miseries continue; whereas, according
to Christian Reason, and the ordinary Course of God's
Providence, nothing can be more probable to continue our Miseries, and increase our Judgements, than
the least Connivance in this Kind. What can be said
or imagined, should be any Inducement to it? We
hope not to make Use of their Help and Assistance
to strengthen any Party here, to bring over such
Actors of barbarous Cruelties to exercise the same in
these Kingdoms. We desire your Lordships to consider these Things; and that nothing may remain
with you, which may hinder His Majesty from giving
His Consent to all good Means for the reducing of
Ireland, according to what is desired by us in our
Propositions.
"By Command of the Commissioners
for the Parliaments of both Kingdoms.
"Exam'r.
Jo. Thurloe.
Jo. Cheisly."
Parliament's Commissioners have sent the King's Letter for an Addition of Time to the Treaty to the Two Houses.
"20 Febr. 1644.
"Your Lordships Paper of the 14th of this Month,
for an Addition of Time for this Treaty, together
with His Majesty's Letter concerning the same, were
sent by us to the Houses of Parliament; who, as we
have already acquainted your Lordships, have declared, that, if they shall be satisfied in the good Progress of the Treaty upon the Propositions concerning
Religion, the Militia, and Ireland, will give Time
for the Treaty upon the Propositions by His Majesty; but, further than this, have not as yet signified
their Pleasures to us.
"By Command of the Commissioners for
the Parliaments of both Kingdoms.
"Exam'r.
"Daniel Earle.
Jo. Cheisly."
King's Commissioners desire to know, if any further Time is granted for it by the Houses.
"20 Februarii, 1644.
"By our Paper delivered to your Lordships the 14th
of this Month, we moved your Lordships to endeavour an Addition of Time for this Treaty after the
Expiration of the Days limited for the same, upon
the Reasons mentioned in His Majesty's Letter,
which Letter we then delivered to your Lordships;
whereunto your Lordships then returned Answer, That
you would send Copies of His Majesty's Letter, and
of our Paper, to the Houses of Parliament; and,
after Signification of their Pleasure, you will give
further Answer. We now desire to know, whether
there be an Addition of Time for this Treaty, after
the Expiration of the Days limited for the same, upon
the Reasons mentioned in His Majesty's said Letter;
and what Time may be added.
"By Command of His Majesty's Commissioners.
"Exam'r,
"John Thurloe.
Wm. Dugdale.
Daniel Earle.
Nic. Oudart."
King's Commissioners desire to employ the Two remaining Days of the Treaty about the Propositions for Religion, the Militia, and Ireland; that the King may come to the Parliament, the Armies being first disbanded.
"20 Februarii, 1644.
"Having now spent (18) Days with your Lordships,
in the Treaty upon Religion, the Militia, and Ireland; and, besides the present Satisfaction we have
given your Lordships in those Particulars, we having
offered that further Consideration and Order be
taken therein by His Majesty and the Two Houses
of Parliament; and your Lordships having proposed
many important Things, in the said several Particulars, to be framed, settled, and disposed, by the Two
Houses, before a full Agreement can be established;
we propose to your Lordships, whether the Two
Days remaining may not be best spent, towards the
satisfying of your Lordships in those Three Propositions, and the procuring a speedy blessed Peace,
upon finding out some Expedient for His Majesty's
Repair to Westm. that so all Differences may be composed, and the poor Kingdom to be restored to its
ancient Happiness and Security; and to that Purpose
(if your Lordships shall think fit) we are willing to
treat with your Lordships concerning the best Means
whereby (all Armies being First disbanded) His Majesty may, with Honour, Freedom, and Safety, be
present with His Two Houses of Parliament at Westm.
To which Two Particulars, that is, first concerning the
disbanding all Armies, and for His Majesty's speedy
Repair, and Residence, with Honour, Freedom, and
Safety, at Westm. we shall, if your Lordships think
fit, apply ourselves; and accordingly To-morrow will
be ready to deliver to your Lordships some Propositions upon that Subject; and, if your Lordships
shall concur with us herein, we hope it will be a good
Inducement to procure an Addition of Time to this
Treaty, according to His Majesty's Proposition in His
late Letter to us, which we delivered to your Lordships.
"By Command of His Majesty's Commissioners.
"Exam'r,
"John Thurloe.
Wm. Dugdale,
Daniel Earle.
Nic. Oudart."
Parliament's Commissioners will proceed in the Propopositions for Religion; and will procure further Time for the Treaty.
"20 Februarii, 1644.
"We shall, according to mutual Agreement between His Majesty and the Two Houses of the Parliament of England, and the Commissioners for the
Parliament of Scotland, treat these Two remaining
Days upon the Three Propositions, for Religion, the
Militia, and Ireland; and shall be glad to receive
Satisfaction in them from your Lordships, as the
best Expedient for procuring a speedy and blessed
Peace, that the Armies may be disbanded, and the
Happiness of His Majesty's Presence may again be
enjoyed by those, who have nothing more in their
Prayers and Endeavours than, by His Majesty's Conjunction with His Parliament, to see all those sad
Differences composed, and these distracted Kingdoms
restored to their ancient Happiness and Security:
Accordingly we shall be ready to begin again Tomorrow upon the Proposition for Religion, and receive what your Lordships will propose; and, being
satisfied upon that and the other Two Propositions,
we are confident we shall have further Time given
us to treat upon such other Particulars as shall be
necessary for the attaining of those Ends which we all
desire.
"By Command of the Commissioners for
the Parliaments of both Kingdoms.
"Exam'r,
"Jo. Thurloe.
Jo. Cheisly."
Adjourn.
House adjourned till 4a post meridiem.
Post meridiem.
PRAYERS, by Mr. Sallaway.
Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.
|
L. Admiral.
Comes Kent.
Comes Rutland.
Comes Manchester.
Comes Bollingbrooke.
Comes Stamford.
Comes Nottingham.
Comes Suffolke.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
L. General. |
Ds. North.
Ds. Willoughby.
Ds. Mountague.
Ds. Dacres.
Ds. Bruce. |
Answer from the H. C.
Sir Edw. Leech and Mr. Page return with this Answer
from the House of Commons:
That they agree to the Alterations in the Ordinance
for commanding the Officers to repair to their Colours.
Order for all Officers and Soldiers to repair to their Colours.
"It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in this present Parliament assembled, That all
Officers and Soldiers (other than such as shall have
Leave or Licence from the Lord General, or other
Commander in Chief) shall and do, within Eight and
Forty Hours after Notice of this Ordinance, upon
Pain of Death, repair to their several Colours; and
all Officers are hereby enjoined to take special Care
to keep their Soldiers together, as they will answer
the contrary at their extreamest Peril: And, for the
more speedy and effectual Execution of this Ordinance, it is further Ordained, That the several Committees of the several and respective Counties, Cities,
and Places, shall, immediately upon Receipt hereof,
cause the same to be published in every Market Town,
and Parish Church, within their respective Limits:
And it is further Ordained, by the Authority aforesaid, That the Committees and Deputy Lieutenants
of the several Counties aforesaid, or any One of them,
shall apprehend every Soldier, who, after Publication hereof, shall not repair to their Colours according to this Ordinance, and commit them to Prison
and, with all convenient Speed, take Order that every
Person so committed may be sent to his Commander
in Chief, to the Intent they may be proceeded against
according to the Course of War; and every Person
that, after Publication of this Ordinance, shall willingly harbour or entertain any Officer or Soldier that
hath or shall depart from his Colours (without the
Pass of his superior Officer) shall, for every Day that
he shall so harbour or entertain, forfeit the Sum of
Ten Shillings, to be levied by the Warrant of the
said Committees, or any Two of them, by Distress
and Sale of the Offender's Goods; and the Committees are hereby required and enjoined to levy the
said Fines accordingly."
Earl of Clare and Elsworth, about a Building.
Ordered, That John Elsworth shall have Liberty to
build the House in Clare Streete, after the same Manner it was when he made the Purchase of it, and no otherwise.
Mansell and Harris.
Ordered, Friday next the Cause between Sir Robert
Mansell and Harris shall be heard, by Counsel on both
Sides.
Sir R. Sharpey's Ordinance.
Next, the Committee that formerly were appointed
to consider of the Ordinance concerning Sir Robert Sharpey reported, "That they have considered of it, and
think it fit to pass as it is."
Hereupon it was read the Third Time, and approved
of, and Ordered to be sent to the House of Commons,
to desire their Concurrence therein.
Message to the H. C. for a Conference about the Treaty.
A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by
Mr. Serjeant Whitfeild and Mr. Serjeant Finch:
To desire a Free Conference, presently, if it may
stand with their Conveniency, concerning the Treaty
and the safe Conduct.
The Answer returned:
Answer.
That the House of Commons will send an Answer
by Messengers of their own to this Message.
Message from the H. C. for a Conference about it.
A Message was brought from the House of Commons,
by Sir Edward Ayscought Knight, &c.
To desire a Conference, touching the last, Message.
The Answer returned was:
Answer.
That this House will give a present Conference, in the
Painted Chamber, as is desired.
Message to the H C. for a Conference, about some Papers from the Commissioners for the Treaty.
A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by
Mr. Serjeant Whitfeild and Mr. Serjeant Finch:
To desire a Conference, concerning a Letter and some
of the Papers received from the Commissioners at Uxbridge.
The Answer returned was:
Answer.
That they will give a present Meeting, as is desired.
Heads for this Conference.
The Earl of Manchester is to manage this Conference, and to read the Letter and the Four last Papers
to them; and afterwards to let them know, "That
their Lordships, considering this Paper may carry
some specious Shew of the King's Desire of settling a
Peace by the disbanding of all Armies, and coming
to His Parliament; though my Lords do not conceive
any Hopes of receiving Satisfaction in their Desires
by this Treaty, yet they think it fit that the Committee of both Kingdoms do meet To-morrow in
the Afternoon, and consider of something that they
may offer unto the Houses upon this Paper on Monday Morning; and that, in the mean Time, Order
be sent to the Commissioners at Uxbridge, to stay
there until they receive further Orders from the
Houses; and further to desire, that they would consider whether the safe Conduct do expire on Monday
next or not."
The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the
Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the
House was resumed.
Next, was read a Packet, a Letter which came from
the Commissioners at Uxbridge.
(Here enter them.)
Letter from the Commissioners for the Treaty, with Papers about the Propositions for a Peace.
"For the Right Honourable the Speaker of the
House of Peers pro Tempore.
"My Lords,
"We have this Day received several Papers; One
of them, with our Answer to it, we have herewith
sent; the others are concerning Ireland, and are very
long, to which we are preparing Answers; and, when
they are finished, we shall present both unto your
Lordships, to whom we desire to give an Account of
all the Proceedings of
"Your Lordship's Humble and faithful Servants,
"A. Northumberland.
Pembroke & Mount.
Salisbury."
King's Commissioners desire an Answer to the King's Propositions for a Cessation, and to know if any longer Time is granted for the Treaty.
"22 Februarii, 1644.
"By our Paper delivered to your Lordships 1
Februarii, we did desire to know, whether your Lordships have any Instructions concerning His Majesty's
Propositions for settling a safe and well-grounded
Peace; and, by our Paper of the Third of February,
we did desire to know, whether your Lordships had
received any Instructions concerning that Proposition
of His Majesty for a Cessation; and, if your Lordships had not received any, that you would endeavour to procure Authority to treat thereupon; and,
by our Paper of the 10th of February, we did desire
to know, whether your Lordships had received any
Instructions concerning His Majesty's Propositions,
that we might prepare ourselves to treat upon them
when your Lordships should think fit; and, by our
Paper delivered to your Lordships 14th February,
upon Directions received from His Majesty, we moved your Lordships, that you would endeavour to procure an Addition of Time for this Treaty, after the
Expiration of the Days limited for the same, upon
the Reasons mentioned in His Majesty's Letter,
which Letter we then delivered to your Lordships;
and, by our Paper delivered to your Lordships the
20th of this Month, we moved your Lordships to endeavour an Addition of Time for this Treaty after the
Expiration of the Days limited for the same, upon
the Reasons mentioned in His Majesty's said Letter;
to which we have not [ (fn. *) received full Answers, nor
have we yet] had any Notice from your Lordships,
whether the Two Houses of Parliament have given
any further Time for this Treaty. And having
hitherto, according to the Order prescribed us, treated only upon the Three First Heads, of Religion,
the Militia, and Ireland, and the Twenty Days expiring this Day, we again desire to know, whether
there is any Direction of Time granted (fn. *) for this
Treaty, our safe Conduct being but for Two Days
longer.
"By Command of His Majesty's Commissioners.
"Exam'r.
"Wm. Dugdale.
Nic. Oudart."
Parliament's Commissioners Answer to it.
"22 Februarii, 1644.
"Your Lordships Papers, of the First, Third, and
Tenth of February, whether we had any Instructions
concerning His Majesty's Propositions, and Power
to treat for a Cessation, as also your Papers of the
Fourteenth and Twentieth of February, concerning
His Majesty's Letter of an Addition of Time to this
Treaty, with your Lordships Desire thereupon, have
been by us sent up to both Houses of Parliament,
from Time to Time, as we received them, together
with our Answer given to them; and, in our Answers,
we have, from Time to Time, declared to your Lordships, that, when the Houses shall be satisfied in the
good Progress of the Treaty, upon their Propositions
concerning Religion, Militia, and Ireland, they will
give an Addition of Time for the Treaty: And we
do conceive, that, if your Lordships Answers to our
Demand concerning Religion, the Militia, and Ireland, had been such as to have given Satisfaction in
the good Progress of this Treaty, mutually consented
for Twenty Days upon the said Propositions, we
should have before this been enabled with Power to
continue the Treaty, as well upon His Majesty's
Propositions as the rest of the Propositions. But,
your Lordships having not given full and satisfactory
Answers concerning Religion, the Militia, and Ireland, you cannot, for the Reasons abovementioned,
expect an Addition of Time; neither have we received any Instructions to continue this Treaty longer
than the Twenty Days, of which this is the last.
And as for your Lordships safe Conduct, we conceive the Three Sundays last past being not (fn. *) "