House of Lords Journal Volume 7
3 March 1645

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 7: 3 March 1645', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 7: 1644 (1767-1830), pp. 259-262. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=33248 Date accessed: 24 October 2014.


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DIE Lunæ, 3 die Martii.

PRAYERS, by Dr. Hoyle.

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.

Comes Kent.
Comes Rutland.
Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Stamford.
Comes Bolingbrooke.
Comes Sarum.
L. Admiral.
L. General.
Comes Northumb.
Comes Manchester.
Comes Nottingham.
Comes Denbigh.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. Bruce.
Ds. North.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. Mountague.

Message from the H.C. with Ordinances, &c.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Harbottle Grimston Esquire;

To desire Concurrence in these Particulars following:

1. An Ordinance for paying (fn. *) Monies due to Officers of the County of Essex.

2. An Ordinance to present Mr. Blackwell to be Minister of Marstham, in the County of Surry.

Read Once.

3. Two Orders, to reward the Messengers that brought the good News of the taking of Shrewsbury and Wem. (Here enter them.)

Agreed to.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That concerning the Ordinances touching the County of Essex, and presenting Mr. Blacke to perform the Cure of Marstham, their Lordships will take it into speedy Consideration, and send an Answer by Messengers of their own; to the Orders for rewarding the Messengers that came from Shrewsbury with the News of taking it, their Lordships do agree to it.

Ordinance to raise Money in Essex.

Next, the Ordinance for the County of Essex was read Twice; and the House was adjourned into a Committee during Pleasure, to take the same into Consideration.

The House being resumed, the said Ordinance was read the Third Time, and Agreed to. (Here enter it.)

Ogle released.

Ordered, That Devenish, Keeper of the Prison of Winchester House, shall release and set at Liberty John Ogle Esquire; he having entered into Bond, according to the Order of this House.

Message from the H. C. with Names of Officers for Sir Thomas Fairfax's Army; and with Letters intercepted from Sir Lewis Dyves.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Wm. Strickland Knight, &c.

To present to their Lordships a List of the Names of such Officers as are to be employed in the Army under Sir Tho. Fairefaix, which the House of Commons have approved of, and desire their Lordships Concurrence therein; and that their Lordships may see the Necessity of the passing the same, they present to their Lordships Copies of Two Letters lately intercepted, written by Sir Lewis Dyves.

First, the Two Letters were read.

(Here enter them.)

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That their Lordships will take the List and the Letters into Consideration, and send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Next, the List of the Names of the Officers were read, and committed to the Consideration of the Committee (fn. *) of the whole House, to be taken into Consideration To-morrow Morning, at Nine of the Clock.

Message from the H C. to give Thanks to the Commissioners who negotiated at Uxbridge.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Harley Knight of the Bath, &c.

To desire their Lordships Concurrence in these Particulars following:

1. To let their Lordships know, that the House of Commons have given their Members that were Commissioners at the Treaty at Uxbridge Thanks, for their great Care and Pains, and Industry, in the Treaty at Uxbridge; and to desire their Lordships would please to give the Lords of this House that were Commissioners Thanks likewise; and to desire their Lordships would join, to give the Scotts Commissioners Thanks from the Houses, for their great Pains and Industry at that Treaty.

to draw a Declaration concerning that Treaty;

2. To desire Concurrence, That a Declaration be prepared and published, upon the Proceedings of the Treaty; and that it be referred to the Commissioners of both Houses that were employed upon the Treaty, to prepare this Declaration; and have Power to meet with the Scotts Commissioners, and to advise with them herein, and to report the same to both Houses.

Agreed to.

and about borrowing Money from the City.

3. To desire Concurrence, that it be referred to the Commissioners of both Houses, to prepare Heads, to be offered to the Common Council (which is appointed to meet To-morrow at Two of the Clock), for the borrowing of present Monies; and that, among other Propositions, they shall have Power, for their Security, to propound unto them to nominate Treasurers, for receiving the Monies upon the Ordinance for raising Forces to be under the Command of Sir Tho. Fairefaix; and that they consider of what other Security shall be requisite to tender unto them for the said Monies.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will take this Message into present Consideration, and send an Answer by Messengers of their own, presently.

Ordered, That the Lord General, Lord Admiral, Comes Manchester, and the Earl of Denbigh, do (fn. †) presently consider what Answer (fn. ‡) is to be returned to this Message.

Paper from the Scots Commissioners.

The Earl of Northumb. presented to this House a Paper from the Scotch Commissioners, concerning the Army, which was read.

(Here enter it.)

Answer to the Message from the H. C.

The Earl of Manchester reported what the Committee had drawn up, to be given as an Answer to the House of Commons to their last Message, which was read; and Ordered, To have Conference upon this Paper with the House of Commons To-morrow Morning.

"This House desires that Public Thanks be given unto the worthy Members of the House of Commons that were employed in the Treaty at Uxbridge, for their special Care, Prudence, Industry, or Circumspection, and Resolution, in the managing of the Treaty.

"That this House doth agree in giving Thanks to the Scottch Commissioners; and have named Three Lords, Lord General, Earl Manchester, Lord Bruce; and desire the House of Commons to name a proportionable Number, to join with them therein.

"They think it most proper, instead of a Common Council, to have a Common Hall To-morrow, at Three of the Clock in the Afternoon, because it may give the more public Satisfaction.

"That such a general Account of the Treaty at Uxbridge may be given to the Common Hall, as the Commissioners for the Treaty shall think fit; and that they may press that Account, as a Motive to the City to lend such Sums of Money as are necessary upon this important Occasion."

Letters intercepted from Sir Lewis Dyves, concerning the Proceedings of the Forces near Dorchester.

"Dorchester, 26 Febr. 1644.

"My Lord,

"The Church Forts, by a strange Misfortune, was surprized this Night, by the Enemy in Melcombe; but the principal Forts, where all our Ammunition and Provision lies, we still maintain. Sir John Berkly is sent for hither by my Lord Goreing, to draw his Forces hither, to join with ours, he having set up his Rest for the taking both that and the Town of Melcombe together; which, by God's Assistance, we doubt not to effect, Waller's Forces being so scattered by the withdrawing of Essex's Horse and Manchester's Foot from him, as he is not in a Condition to advance towards us; and this News was last Night confirmed to us by Kell Digby, who came from Oxford. I beseech your Lordship, be pleased to employ all your Interests with Sir R. Greenvile, to hasten the sending of One Thousand Five Hundred Foot, or Two Thousand Horse, at the least, towards us, to make good Devonshire against the Forces about Taunton; and that we may be at a near Distance, to join together if there be Occasion; and he shall want no Horse from us that he shall have Need of. The Business is of that Importance, as little less than the Crown depends upon it; so as, we are confident, he will not be wanting to us in this Extremity. So, ceasing your Lordship's further Trouble, I remain

"Your Lordship's

"Humble Servant,

"Lewis Dives.

"To the Right Honourable the Earl of Bristoll, at Exeter."

"From Sir Lewis Dives, to Sir John Barkeley, at Teverton.

"Noble Sir,

"You will, I presume, receive Notice by Colonel Froad, before this will be with you, of the Disaster that happened to us this Day, by Negligence of some of our Horse, which were beaten off their Guards, and pursued by the Enemy to Weymouth; whereupon a Hundred Musketeers were drawn out of Weymouth, to relieve them, which the Enemy in Melcombe taking all Advantage of, made a Sally over the Draw-bridge, and have surprized The Chappell Forts; but the Two principal Forts, where our Provisions and Ammunition lies, we still maintain, and doubt not, by God's Assistance, to keep them still; hoping that this Misfortune will turn to our Advantage, and a Means that we shall gain both the Town and Fort together, whereupon my Lord Goreing hath set up his Rest to go through with it, being confident of the speedy Assistance in a Work of that infinite Importance to His Majesty's Service; and in case Waller should draw this Way, which is not probable, yet your Strength, united with my Lord's, will be much superior to Waller's, so as doubtless we may fight with him upon Advantage; for Kell. Digby came this Night from Oxford, who assured me, that Essex and Manchester's Forces have absolutely left him, and that he hath not a considerable Party with him, his Army being utterly broken; so that, this Place being taken, which, we are confident, cannot be a Work of many Days, the West is not only secured thereby, but my Lord Goreing will likewise have an Opportunity of advancing into the associated Counties, which are now left naked; and there is Order likewise taken, that Two Thousand Horse from Oxford and The Vize shall be ready to attend Waller's Motion. So shall, by God's Blessing, our Game go fair, if not marred in the Playing.

Febr. 26, 1644.

"Lewis Dives."

Orders for Money to the Messengers who came from Shropshire.

"It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That the Committee of Lords and Commons for Advance of Monies at Habberdashers Hall do forthwith advance the Sum of Twenty Pounds, to the Messenger that brought the First News of the Taking of Shrowesbury."

"It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords and Commons, &c. That the Committee of Lords and Commons for the Advance of Money at Habberdashers Hall do forthwith pay to the Messenger that brought the further News from the Committee of Embethen, in Shrewsbury, of the Taking of that Town, the Sum of Ten Pounds."

Ordinance to raise Money in Essex.

"Whereas the County of Essex, in Obedience to an Ordinance of Parliament, intituled, "An Ordinance for putting the associated Counties into a Posture of Defence," hath raised a considerable Number of Horse, Foot, and Dragoons, and must be at great Charges in maintaining of Adjute Officers, to order and exercise the said Forces and other Trained Regiments, and in providing other Things requisite for the Defence and Safety of the said County; and, without the raising of Monies to defray the said Charge, the County cannot be put into such a Posture as is necessary: It is therefore Ordained, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, and by Authority of the same, That, for the Intents and Purposes aforesaid, there shall be Monthly charged, rated, taxed, and levied, upon the said County, from the First of February, 1644, the Sum of Three Hundred Pounds, until the First Day of December next, if this unnatural War shall so long continue.

"And be it further Ordained, That every Person or Persons, that were or are to be assessed or taxed, by virtue of an Ordinance, intituled, "An Ordinance for raising and maintaining of Forces, for the Defence of the Kingdom, under the Command of Sir Thomas Fairefax", shall be assessed and taxed by this Ordinance, in the same Manner as they are or may be assessed and taxed by virtue of the said recited Ordinance; and shall be liable to as great Forfeitures and Penalties for not paying the Sum or Sums to be assessed, as they should or might have been, if the same had been assessed by the said recited Ordinance; and the Committees named and trusted in the said last recited Ordinance, to take Care for the assessing, collecting, or levying of any Monies in the said County, are named and trusted in this Ordinance, and have as full Power and Authority given them by this Ordinance to nominate and appoint Collectors and Assessors, and to levy, distrain, fine, and imprison, or sequester, as they, or any of them, have by virtue of the said last recited Ordinance.

"And the said Collectors shall pay the several Sums by them collected, to the High Constables of the several Hundreds, and the Mayors or other Head Officers of Corporations respectively, within the said County, who shall pay over the said Monies to such Treasurers as shall be appointed by the Lord Lieutenant, Deputy Lieutenants of the said County, or any Three or more of them, who are to issue forth the same for the Use and Service of the said County, by the Vote of the major Part of the said Deputy Lieutenants present, or any Three of them present, and by their Order, in Pursuance thereof, under their Hands, and not otherwise: And it is further Ordained, That Three Pence in the Pound shall be allowed for every Sum of Money which shall be collected and paid, whereof One Penny shall be for the Collectors, One Penny for the High Constables, and Mayors, or other Head Officers of Corporations, and One Penny for the Treasurers; and the Treasurers shall keep a Register-book of the several Sums received and paid by them; and the said Committees, or any Three of them, have hereby Power given them to call all Treasurers, Mayors, and other Head Officers of Corporations, High Constables, Collectors, and others, that have, or at any Time shall be thought to have, any of the said Monies in their Hands, or any other Monies due upon the Ordinance for the new Posture, to an Accompt; and if any of them shall refuse to accompt, or to pay in the Monies wherewith they are charged, then the said Committees, or any Three of them, shall fine them Double the Sum charged upon them; which if it be not paid within Six Days after the Sum is set, and Notice thereof left at his or their Dwelling-house, it shall be lawful to distrain for the same; and if there be not sufficient Distress wherewith to satisfy, then the said Committees may imprison the Offender herein, and sequester his Estate, until the Money charged, and the Fine set, be levied and paid; and in case the said Treasurers, Mayors, and other Head Officers of Corporations, High Constables, or Collectors, to be nominated as aforesaid, shall refuse or neglect to levy or receive the Sums of Money to be assigned and set by virtue of this Ordinance, or the Ordinance for the new Posture, it shall be lawful for the said Committees, or any Three of them, to fine the said Treasurers, Mayors, and other Head Officers of Corporations, High Constables, or Collectors, not exceeding the Sum of Ten Pounds, and to levy the same by Way of Distress and the Sale of their Goods, or by Imprisonment, as they shall think fit."

Paper from the Scots Commissioners, concerning the Appointment of Officers to the Forces raised by the Parliament; and for an Answer to their Paper concerning Money, Arms, &c. for the Scots Army.

"In this Conjunture of Tyme and Affaires, such as hath not bin since the Begining of this unhappy Warre; the late Solemne Treaty of Peace, after soe many Prefaces and soe long Preparation, and after soe greate Hopes and Expectation of all Sorts of Persons, haveing brought forth nothing toward Peace, but on the contrary made manifest, that for any Thing wee can for the present apprehend, the Publique Peace must bee setled in annother Way, and thereby haveing filled the Mynds of Men formerly doubtfull with Resolution; wee the Commissioners of the Kingdome of Scotland, from that Affection wee owe to the Publict, from the deepe Sence of the greate Trust put upon us by that Kingdome, and from our Zeale that, all Differences and Prejudices layd aside, the greate Worke in Hand may, by united Counsell and Strength, bee carryed on to a happy Period, doe finde ourselves pressed to represent our Thoughts and Desires to the Wisdome of the Honnorable Houses of Parliament:

"Whereas, for the better mannaging of this Warre, wherein both Kingdomes by their joynt Counsells and Forces are engaged, and upon which dependeth the Safety of both Kingdomes, in their Religion, Libertyes, and Lives, the Honnorable Houses, by their late Order, did referr the makeing a Moddell and Frame of the Militia, as should bee most for the Advantage of the Publict Service, to the Committee of both Kingdomes, wherein alsoe they had made some Progresse in the Point of the Strength and Mayntenance of the Army; and it hath seemed good since to the Honnorable Houses, to put the Nomination of the Comaunders and Officers into annother Way; wee, according to the common Covennant, Treaty, and Interest of both Nations, doe earnnestly desire, seeing there is nothing in this Warre soe important as the right Constitution of the Army, and nothing in the Army more considerable then the right Choyce of the Comaunders and Officers: That, as the Honnorable Houses have provided, that all the Officers of the Army take the Solemne League and Covenant, wherein wee acknowledge their Piety and Wisdome, it being the strongest Bond to unite the Army both with God and amonge themselves, soe, in the same Piety and Wisdome, they make Choice of such as are knowne to bee most zealous of Reformation of Religion, and of that Uniformity which both Kingdomes are obliged to promote and maintayne with all their Endeavors, and whereof the Honnorable Houses, by their Votes, have layd soe good a Foundation; that soe the Votes of the Parliament, and Strength of the Army (which wee conceive to bee the Wisdome and Power of the Kingdome) may still joyne in One, for the Publict Safety; and that the Scottish Army, which hath bin, and will still bee, ready to spill their Blood and Lives in the common Cause, may bee incouraged in their Undertakeings, by their Assurance, against all that is or may bee alleadged in the contrare; that both Armyes fight in the same Cause, and for the same Ends, especially for the settling of Religion, and Defence of that Liberty and Power whereby it may bee setled and maintayned; and that their Resolutions bee not damped, nor their Activenes obstructed, by the Constitutions of the Forces here, or any other reall Evidence of this Kinde, which, as wee are assured is farre from the Intentions of the Honnorable Houses, soe are wee confident that their Wisdome will provide against it in the Choyse of their Officers.

"Seing the Comaunders and Officers of the Army are to have soe greate a Charge, as is the governing of the Shipp wherein both Kingdomes are embarked in this Tyme of Tempest, wee desire that the Army bee not put in worse Case, or weakned, by chooseng or advanceing of such, who, by their Education, have not military Abilityes and Experience; or, through the removeinge of able and expert Men of Warre from the Army, or assigning of lower Places in the Army to such as by their owne Merritt and the Justice of the Parliament have formerly beene more highly honnored, or, by Want of such Generall Officers as the greate Military Science and longest Experience in Warre have found necessary in all compleate and well-constituted Armyes; and therefore that there bee particular Notice taken of every Officer's Parts for soe greate a Trust, and that the Army bee full and perfect in all the Offices and Officers thereof, and that with such Expedition as the present Posture of Affaires doth require.

"Seing the Honnorable Houses have judged it fitt to invite the Scottish Army to come Southward for the Publict Service, and have written to the Parliament of Scotland for that Effect, referring the particuler Provisions to bee made for their Accomodation to bee reported by us; wee doe againe earnestly desire to have an Answere to our Paper concerning Moneyes, Armes, and Ammunition, &c. that wee may send an Expresse with it, who hath beene attending here for some Dayes, and hath beene every Day expected by them. Wee conceive Dispatch in this to bee the more necessary, that wee are informed, as the Enemy is active toward the West, soe hath he a considerable Strength marching towards the North, which, joyning with other Forces as are there already, and such evill-affected Persons as there bee to many in those Parts, may encrease to such Strength as may bee of dangerous Consequence, if not tymeously prevented.

"These our serious Thoughts and earnest Desires, proceeding from the Integrity of our Hearts and our sincere Affection to the Common Cause in this Tyme of soe greate Exigence, without Prejudice or Respect to any Man's Person, will, wee are confident, bee taken and interpreted to noe other Sence, by the Wisdome of the Houses of Parliament, or by any Person that loveth the Publique Good.

3 Marcii, 1644.

"By Comaund of the Commissioners for the Parliament of Scotland.

"Exam'r.

"J. Cheisly."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 9a cras.

Footnotes

* Deest in Originali.
* Origin. to.
Origin. present.
Origin. it.