House of Lords Journal Volume 7
28 June 1645

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 7: 28 June 1645', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 7: 1644 (1767-1830), pp. 462-465. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=33347 Date accessed: 22 August 2014.


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Contents

Die Sabbati, 28 die Junii.
Message to the H. C. about removing the Prisoners from Tuthill Military Yard; and for Lord Savile to have Leave to sell his Jewels, formerly taken from him. Message from the H. C. with an Impeachment against the Earl of Stamford & al. for assaulting Sir A. Haselrigge. Letter from the Earl of Leven, that he is advanced to Nottingham. Papers about Carlisle, and the Accusation against Messrs. Barwis, &c. Letter from the Gloucester Committee to Sir T. Fairfax, and his Answer. Petition of Mrs. Degennis & al. Widows of Persons who were killed in the Parliament's Service, for Relief. Walker, Quarter-master to Sir S. Luke, Petition to be freed from an Arrest, by Sir A. Smithes. Col. Vermuden freed from an Arrest. E. of Denbigh against Capt. Stone & al. Committees for Stafford. Message from the H. C. to fit a while. Answer. Ordinance concerning Surrey. Message from the H. C. with a Letter to be sent to the E. of Leven, to march towards Worcester. Answer. L. Savile to be brought before the Committee. Letter from the Gloucester Committee, to Sir T. Fairfax, to pursue the King. Letter from Sir T. Fairfax, for Directions how to act; for his Army to be recruited with Men and Horses; and for some Means to be taken to prevent his Soldiers from deserting. Letter to the E. of Leven, to march towards Worcester. Paper from the Scots Commissioners, concerning the Garrison of Carlisle. Letter from the Committees at York to the E. of Leven, about a Proposal from Sir T. Glenham, to surrender Carlisle. E. of Leven's Answer, that he has sent Gen. Leslie to treat about it. Paper from the Scots Commissioners, concerning their Information against Sir Wilfred Lawson, Messrs, Barwis, Lamplugh, &c. Adjourn. Footnotes

Die Sabbati, 28 die Junii.

Prayers, by Dr. Burges.

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.

Comes Northumb.
Comes Kent.
Comes Essex.
Comes Warwicke.
Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Bolingbrooke.
Comes Manchester.
Comes Sarum.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Stamford.
Comes Suffock.
Comes Nottingham.
Comes Rutland.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Ds. North.
Ds. Mountague.
Ds. Rob'ts.
Ds. Willoughby.
Ds. Howard.

Message to the H. C. about removing the Prisoners from Tuthill Military Yard;

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Edw. Leech and Mr. Page:

To desire them to take into their speedy Consideration, [ (fn. *) how to dispose of the Prisoners] in Tuthill Military Yard; both to avoid the Infection of the Plague, which they will assuredly bring amongst us; as also the Inhumanity of keeping them Abroad in the Weather, and where they lie so nastily.

and for Lord Savile to have Leave to sell his Jewels, formerly taken from him.

And whereas there were certain Jewels and Monies of the Lord Savile seized, by a Messenger of the Committee of Examinations, after his Examination before the Lords upon his last coming from Oxon, and after the Discharge of his Restraint under the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod; and now, having lately been under a new Restraint in the same Place, and having no Means to discharge his Duties and Diet of the said Gentleman Usher other than by the Sale of the said Jewels; his humble Desire is, "That the said Jewels and Monies may be delivered unto him, until such Time as Satisfaction be made unto him.

Signed,

"Savile."

Which Desire of his was thought reasonable by this House; and the House of Commons Concurrence was desired herein.

Message from the H. C. with an Impeachment against the Earl of Stamford & al. for assaulting Sir A. Haselrigge.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Lisle, a Member of that House, with an (fn. †) Impeachment against the Earl of Stamford and others; which was read at the Bar by the said Mr. Lisle; and afterwards at the Table; videlicet,

"The Impeachment of Henry Earl of Stamford, and of Henry Polton and Mathewe Patsall his Servants, by the Commons of England assembled in Parliament, for Breach of their Privileges, and for an Assault upon, and other Injuries done unto, a Member of their House.

"The said Commons shew, That the said Earl of Stamford, Henry Polton, and Mathewe Patsall, upon the 20th Day of May, in the Year of our Lord God, 1645, in the Common Highway leading from Perpoole Lane to Clerkenwell, in the County of Midd. (without any Injury, Offence, or Provocation to them given, and for Matters and Things done in Parliament) did forcibly and unlawfully make an Assault upon Sir Arthur Haslerigg Baronet, a Member of the House of Commons (then riding, in a peaceable Manner, from the said House of Commons, unto his own Dwelling-house in Islington, in the said County; and being then well known by them, the said Earl, Henry Polton, and Mathewe Patsall, to be a Member of the said House of Commons); and then and there the said Earl, Henry Polton, and Mathewe Patsall, did suddenly and unexpectedly several Times thrust and strike the said Sir Arthur Haslerigg, with a drawn Sword, and other offensive Instruments, against the Public Peace of this Kingdom, to the high Breach of the Privilege of the said House of Commons, and to the great Damage of the said Sir Arthur Haslerigge.

"For which Offences and Misdemeanors, the said Commons pray, the said Earl, Henry Poulton, and Mathewe Patsall, may be put to their Answers; and that such Proceedings may be had thereupon as shall be agreeable to Justice."

Next, the Remainder of the Letters brought up from the House of Commons, were read.

The Earl of Manchester reported divers Papers from the Committee of both Kingdoms, and from the Commissioners of Scotland:

1. A Letter from the Earl of Leven was read:

Letter from the Earl of Leven, that he is advanced to Nottingham.

"My Lords and Gentlemen,

"I did formerly signify to your Lordships, &c. beeing here in this Place where we doe not desire to lye improfitable (though our Provisions were both sufficient and sure), but to undertake what may be of most Advantage for the Publique Good, and waite to heare from your Lordships what you shall thinke to propound unto,

"My Lords,
Your Lordships humble Servant,

Nottingham, 25 June, 1645.

"Leven."

Directed, "For the Right Honorable the Comittee of both Kingdoms."

Papers about Carlisle, and the Accusation against Messrs. Barwis, &c.

Also a Paper was read, of the Scotts Commissioners, setting forth the Grounds which moved them to present formerly to this House a Paper concerning Carlile.

(Here enter it.)

A Second Paper from the Scotts Commissioners, was read. (Here enter it.)

Next, (fn. *) a Letter was read, written from the Lord Fairefax, &c. to General Leven; and his Answer to it, concerning Carlile. (Here enter it.)

Letter from the Gloucester Committee to Sir T. Fairfax, and his Answer.

A Letter from the Committee at Glo'ster to Sir Tho. Fairefax, was read. (Here enter it.)

Next, the Letter of Sir Tho. Fairefax, in Answer to it, was read. (Here enter it.)

The Earl of Manchester further reported, "That the Committee of both Kingdoms have written to Sir Thomas Fairefax, to (fn. †) do what he shall think fit upon the Place to be best for the Good of the Kingdom; and the said Committee hath written to the Scotch, to desire them to march Southward."

Petition of Mrs. Degennis & al. Widows of Persons who were killed in the Parliament's Service, for Relief.

Upon reading the Petition of Grace Degennis, Bridgett Ferrer, Gertrude Bringhurst, Francis Leighton, Elizabeth Hudson, Mary Wood, Barbara Ballard, and Joanna Morgan; shewing, "That their Husbands have lost their Lives in the Parliament's Service; desiring some proportionable Allowance, suitable to the Debentures of their Husbands, and their Necessities."

It is Ordered, That this Petition be recommended to the House of Commons.

Walker, Quarter-master to Sir S. Luke, Petition to be freed from an Arrest, by Sir A. Smithes.

Upon reading the Petition of John Walker, Quartermaster to Sir Sam. Luke; shewing, "That, upon Action of Debt charged against him by Sir Arthur Smithes Knight, desires he may (fn. *) be discharged by a Habeas Corpus:"

It is Ordered, That Sir Arthur Smithes shall have a Copy of this Petition, and then return his Answer within Ten Days.

Col. Vermuden freed from an Arrest.

Colonel Vermudyn was brought to this Bar, by a Habeas Corpus, and discharged from his Imprisonment; because this House received certain Information from the Treasurer of the associated Counties, that the State owes Colonel Vermuden more Money than Five Hundred Pounds, which is the Sum he is arrested for.

E. of Denbigh against Capt. Stone & al. Committees for Stafford.

This Day the Exceptions to the Charge of the Earl of Denbigh, against some of the Committee of the County of Stafford, were read; being delivered in by the Parties themselves.

The said Exceptions were read; and Ordered, That the Earl of Denbigh and Sir Edward Leech may have a Copy of them; and that, because the Public may not suffer, they shall have Liberty to appoint One of themselves to follow this Cause here; and the rest may go down to their Charges in the County.

Message from the H. C. to fit a while.

A Message was [ (fn. †) brought from] the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Pye Knight, &c.

To desire their Lordships would please to fit a while.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That their Lordships are content to fit a while, as is desired.

Ordinance concerning Surrey.

The Ordinance for putting the County of Surry into a Posture of Defence, was read the First Time.

Message from the H. C. with a Letter to be sent to the E. of Leven, to march towards Worcester.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Nicolls, &c.

To desire their Lordships Concurrence in a Letter to General Leven, and in certain Votes:

"1. That this House doth approve of the Desires of the Committee of both Kingdoms, for the Scotch Army to march towards Worcester and those Parts, to prevent the King's recruiting of His Army there."

Agreed to.

"2. That a Letter shall be sent, from both Houses, to General Leven, to desire that the Scotts Army may with all Speed advance Southwards, and march towards Worcester and those Parts, according to the Desires of the Committee of both Kingdoms, to prevent the King's recruiting of His Army there."

Agreed to.

3. Next, the Letter to the Earl of Leven was read, and Agreed to. (Here enter it.)

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House agrees to the Votes and Letter now brought.

L. Savile to be brought before the Committee.

Ordered, That the Gentleman Usher bring the Lord Savill this Afternoon before the Committee appointed to examine him.

Letter from the Gloucester Committee, to Sir T. Fairfax, to pursue the King.

"Honourable Sir,

"The Intelligence brought in to us here is, That the King is certainly at Hereford; that Gerrard is there; and that they do with all Earnestness intend and endeavour (fn. ‡) for great Levies both of Men and Money in those Countries; so as unto us it appeareth most evident, that they purpose, if they be not disturbed in those Parts, to raise and form a new Army, which, if raised, must needs prove most dangerous to these Parts especially, and unto the whole Kingdom in general. We cannot, therefore, but humbly represent our Sense and Apprehensions of these Things unto you; and earnestly desire that it may be taken into Consideration, whether it may not be the greatest Service that your Army may undertake, to prosecute the King, and endeavour to break those Levies, and so to keep Him stirring, that He may never have any resting fixed Place or Rendezvous for His new Forces."

25 June, 1645.

Letter from Sir T. Fairfax, for Directions how to act; for his Army to be recruited with Men and Horses; and for some Means to be taken to prevent his Soldiers from deserting.

"My Lords and Gentlemen,

"I desire to hear from you about my last Letters, being very unwilling to neglect any Service which is before me; but should be glad of the Addition of your Commands or Approbation, which gives Life to my Undertakings: And indeed, until I hear from you, I am not a little troubled, because I have Two Ways of necessary Service, to both which I am not able to apply myself, and yet both call for my Help, as will appear by these inclosed; that from Mr. Stevens and Mr. Hodges, concerning the King's acting about Hereford, together with Sir Marmaduke Langdale's Brigade sent to the most Westerly Part of Wales, to levy Men, and probably to meet with such Irish as shall come over, together with the Country's Unwillingness (about Hereford) to come in, seems to be of great Consideration; and those that are unwilling to serve them, to deserve Countenance. The other from Colonel Massey, from whom as I formerly received a Doubt of his Ability to perform that Service with so small a Force, so now I perceive he is informed of the Enemy's Advance towards him, and that the Enemy is able both to carry on the streightening our Men in and about Taunton, and either to force the Colonel, with a Party too strong for him to withstand, to retreat, or run the Hazard of an unequal Engagement. I am marching on towards Marleborough, expecting your Answer to my former Letters. I hear Colonel Massey is this Night between Blandford and Salisbury, from whom, and from other Places, I expect frequent Intelligence. If your Lordships command me to advance forwards, I hope (there being so good Forces in other Parts) you will hasten them to the other Service, which undoubtedly will have the easier Work, if their March be with Expedition. I have often humbly represented the State of the Army since the Fight; and truly, my Lords, it cannot be expected but there will be a Loss and Lack of many Things after such an Engagement as that was. It grieves me to see Men not at all armed, badly horsed, after so many tedious Marches, Horses spoiled for Want of Saddles, many Men a-foot who had their Horses killed, and yet all so willing and ready to serve you to the uttermost. I hope your Lordships will not take it ill, that I am a little importunate for the Supply of these Things, because I do it only out of a Desire to serve you. A Particular of my Wants I have sent to the Committee of the Army, hoping it shall have your Lordships Favour and Furtherance to quicken a Supply. My Horse are much weakened; many Men who got rich Booty being gone to bestow it in Places of Safety, and many Men lie wounded in the Garrisons. It is so with my Foot, of whom I believe I have not Half the Number according to the Establishment. The Difficulty of raising Recruits in the associated Counties, which are so populous, and their suffering Men that run from the Army to return and continue unquestioned amongst them, and unsent up to the Army, as they seem strange, so the latter (if no Course be taken to redress it) will certainly be such an Encouragement to those in the Army to quit it, that it will be impossible for me to keep it up, though I should be recruited every Day. I desire, therefore, that some Course may be taken there, by inflicting an exemplary Punishment upon some of those that do thus return, in the Places where they are found. I remain

"Your Lordships most humble Servant,

"Tho. Fairefax.

"I have sent Colonel Hamond with this Letter, who will be ready to give your Lordships such further Account concerning the Army as you shall please to require of him. I humbly desire your Lordships speedy Answer by him, whom I expect to be again with the Army on the next Lords-day in the Evening, not being willing to spare any of my Officers to remain any Time at London. I have writ to Colonel White, to wait upon your Lordships about the other Particulars."

Leechelade, 26 Junii, 1645.

Letter to the E. of Leven, to march towards Worcester.

"My Lord,

"Your Letters, sent to the Committee of both Kingdoms since you came into Nottinghamsh'r, have been read in both Houses of Parliament, wherein they find you are most willing, with all Chearfulness, to undertake whatsoever may conduce most to the improving the late Victory; for which, and your other Expressions to employ your Armies to the best Advantage of the common Cause, the Houses do return unto you their most hearty Thanks; and understanding from the Committee of both Kingdoms, that, by their Letters of the 25th and 27th Instant, they have desired the speedy Advance of your Army into Worcestersh'r, the Houses do approve thereof; and do also desire your speedy March accordingly, which they conceive most necessary, in regard Sir Thomas Fairfax with his Army is gone far Westward, for the Relief of Taunton and our Forces there, whose Necessities were so pressing as we could not stay Sir Thomas Fairfax till you were acquainted; assuring ourselves you will therefore make the greater Expedition, lest the King, who is yet weak, may recruit Himself to a considerable Army, and in the mean Time plunder and destroy all the neighbouring Counties. The Houses do take especial Care for the Month's Pay for your Army: Thirteen Thousand Pounds of it is ready; the rest will be provided in few Days, and sent to meet you."

Paper from the Scots Commissioners, concerning the Garrison of Carlisle.

"At the Conference this Day with your Lordships and these Gentlemen, an Instruction from both Houses of Parliament to their Commissioners sent to Scotland, was read; wherein it is desired, that the Townes of Barwick and Carlile, whensoever they should be secured from the Papists and Malignants, be delivered over into the Hands of such as shall be appointed to receive them by the Two Houses of Parliament; which Instruction was never comunicated to the Convention of Estates of Scotland, nor their Committees: But as the Grounds of those Instructions were layde aside, and other Propositions presented to both Kingdomes, and agreed upon, so contrary to that Instruction, a Scottish Garrison was placed in Berwick, by the mutuall Advise and Consent of both Kingdomes, as that which did most conduce to the mutuall Interest of both Nations, and is expressed in the Narrative of the Treaty concerning that Garrison.

"Wee presented a Paper to both Houses, concerning the Busines of Carlile, the 24th of this Instant; and shall now give an Accompt of our whole Proceedings therein to the Committee of Estates of the Kingdome of Scotland residing with the Army, to whome properly the Consideration of Matters of that Nature doth belonge, and who have much more to say in that Busines then is knowne to us. In the meane Time, wee thought fitt to communicate to both Houses of Parliament a Copy of the Letter from the Lord Fairfax and Committee of Yorke to his Excellency the Earle of Leven, with his Answer, concerning that Busines; and do earnestly desier that the Houses would in their Wisedome be pleased to delay their Resolution therein (beinge the Subject of a Treaty betweene the Kingdomes) till the Retorne of the Answer of the Committee of Estates; or, which wee rather desier, that, according to the earnest Request of the Earle of Leven and that Committee, in their Letters reported to the Houses, a Committee may be speedily sent to the Scottish Army, according to the Treaty, whereby the Busines of Carlyle and all other Things concerning that Army may be carryed with the greater Unanimity and faire Correspondence betweene the Kingdomes.

"By Comaund of the Commissioners for the Parliament of Scotland.

26 June, 1645.

"Jo. Cheislie."

Letter from the Committees at York to the E. of Leven, about a Proposal from Sir T. Glenham, to surrender Carlisle.

"For his Excellency the Earl of Leven.

"My Lord,

"This Day came a Messenger from Sir Thomas Glenham, with a Message of so strange a Nature as we never yet received, or heard to be offered to any before this Time. It was to know, in case he be compelled to surrender the Town (which, as he faith, is in a good Condition to defend themselves), to whom, or what Conditions will be offered him, that he may safely rely. on: To which we know not what Reply to make, but refer it to your Lordship's Wisdom and great Experience in Business of this Kind. We offered the Messenger Directions and a Convoy for his Attendance on your Lordship; but he refused, in regard we would not return to Sir Thomas Glenham an Answer in Writing to his verbal Message.

"We remain
Your Excellency's most humble Servants,

Yorke, the 21th of June, 1645.

"Fer. Fairfax.
Fra. Pierpoint.
Will'm Constable."

E. of Leven's Answer, that he has sent Gen. Leslie to treat about it.

"For the Lord Fairfax and the Comittee at Yorke.

"Right Honorable,

"I wish the Messenger that came from Sir Thomas Glenham had come forward to this Place, by whome I might have knowne the Perticulers of the Message more cleerely then I can understand by your Lordship's Letter, which mentioneth a strange Offer; whereunto if your Lordship knew not what Reply to make, I can farr less know. However, I have sent Liuetenant Gennerall Lesley, with Power from me concerning that Treaty and Capitulation with the Towne of Carlile, trustinge there shall be such Complyance and Agreement betweene him and the Comissioners of Parliament upon the Place as shall give Satisfaction to all that are concerned in the Busines.

"And so I remaine
Your humble Servant,

Nottingham, 23 June, 1645.

"Leven."

Paper from the Scots Commissioners, concerning their Information against Sir Wilfred Lawson, Messrs, Barwis, Lamplugh, &c.

"Accordinge to the Desier of the House of Commons, that wee should acquaint the Members of that House that are of the Committee of both Kingdomes upon what Grounds wee delivered in the Informations wee received concerning a Member of that House and other Persons; wee retorne this Answer:

"That these Informations were delivered to us by John Osmontherly, a Member of the Committee of Cumberland, and John Musgrave Gentleman, under their Hands, who declared they were ready to justisie and make them appeare.

"That they shewed to us these Articles under the Hands of about Seaven Score of the Gentlemen and Inhabitants of the Country.

"That they had Recomendations from Collonel Cholmley, a Member of the Committee of Cumberland, and a Collonel of a Regiment of the Parliament's Forces there, who is a religious and worthy Gentleman; of whose Affection and Forwardnes in the Cause, the Kingdome of Scotland hath much Experience.

"That Collonel Cholmley, in his Recommendation, approves of the Articles, and engages his Life for the Fidelity of the said Mr. Osmontherly and Mr. Musgrave.

"That wee have received diverse Testimonies from Persons heere in Towne, to whome wee give much Creditt, of the Fidelity of the said Mr. Osmontherly and Mr. Musgrave; as,

"1. That, before the coming in of the Scottish Army into this Kingdome, John Osmontherly raised for the Service of the Parliament, of his Freinds, Tennants, and Servants, 500 Men, and opposed the Commissioners of Array, till they were betrayed by Sir Wilfured Lawson, and Sir Patricius Curwyn, neere Kinsman also to Mr. Barwis, who, beinge chosen Comaunders by the County, joyned with the Enemy; whereupon they were all unexpectedly seized on and disarmed, and the said Mr. Osmontherly was forced to fly for his Life.

"2. That Mr. Musgrave suffered much under the Tyranny of the Earle of Strafford, was made Use of as a Wittnes by the Parliament against the Earle of Strafford; and, in the Beginning of these Troubles, was 26 Weekes imprisoned by the Commissioners of Array, and afterwards was banished his owne Country.

"3. That the said Mr. Musgrave is of a different Judgement from the Church of Scotland in Matter of Church Government, and stands for the Independency of perticuler Congregations; and therefore his Information is the less to be suspected of Partiality towards the Scottish Army.

"Concerninge the Matter of the Informations:

"1. Wee finde them agree with the Informations wee received from the Scottish Army.

"2. That it was no new Busines, that they had attended the House of Commons 13 Weekes in Winter, with Articles against those Persons; and in February last were referred to a Committee by the House of Commons, but nothing don thereupon.

"3. That they were now returned with further Articles and Informations against those Persons; were attending the House, but, by reason of the Multiplicity of Busines, could not bee heard; and therfore intreated for our Assistance, which, in Matters of that Consequence, that did so much conduce to the preventinge of Misunderstandings betweene the Kingdomes, and the Vindication of the Scottish Army, wee could not deny: These were the Grounds upon which wee delivered in those Informations; and upon the whole Matter wee desire, That the Busines, in so farr as concernes the Scottish Army, may be examyned by a Committee upon the Place, authorised by both Kingdomes for that Purpose, accordinge to the Ninth Article of the late Treaty betweene the Kingdomes; videlicet,

"That all Matters of Difference that shall happen to arise, betweene the Subjects of the Two Nations, shall be resolved and determyned by the mutuall Advise and Consent of both Kingdomes, or by such Committees as for this Purpose shall be by them appointed, with the same Power as in the precedent Article.

"By Comaund of the Commissioners
for the Parliament of Scotl.

26 June, 1645.

"Jo. Cheislie."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 9a, Monday.

Footnotes

* Bis in Originali.
Origin. Impeach.
* Bis in Originali.
Origin. done.
* Deest in Originali.
Origin. sent to.
Origin, our.