House of Lords Journal Volume 5
13 February 1643

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 5: 13 February 1643', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 5: 1642-1643 (1767-1830), pp. 603-605. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=35026 Date accessed: 22 October 2014.


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DIE Lunæ, videlicet, 13 die Februarii.

PRAYERS.

Earl of Manchester, appointed by the House to be Speaker this Day.

Plymouth besieged.

A Letter, written by the Earl of Stamford, to the Speaker of this House, was read, dated the 7th of February, 1642; shewing, "That Sir Ralph Hopton hath besieged Plymouth."

Ordinance for raising Money Weekly.

Next, was read the Ordinance concerning the Weekly Assessment of Monies, for the Maintenance of the Army.

Message from the H. C. to expedite it;

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Wm. Strode:

1. To desire their Lordships to give Expedition in the Ordinances brought up concerning the Raising of Monies.

for Concurrence in Two Orders;

2. To desire Concurrence in an Order concerning the County and City of Exon.

3. To desire Expedition in the Order formerly brought up concerning Nottingham.

and for a Conference, about Propositions to the King.

4. To desire a Conference touching the Propositions. Agreed, To give a present Conference, as is desired, in the Painted Chamber.

The Order concerning the City of Exon was read. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

Answer.

The Answer returned was:

That this House agrees with the House of Commons in this Order concerning the City and County of Exon; that their Lordships have passed the Ordinance concerning Nottingham, and will send it down by Messengers of their own: Concerning the Two Ordinances for raising of Monies, their Lordships will give Expedition therein; and their Lordships will give a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber, as is desired.

Message to the H. C. that the Lords agree to the Order about Nottingham.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Dr. Aylett and Dr. Heath:

To let them know, that their Lordships do concur with the House of Commons in the Ordinance concerning the City of Nottingham, with this Alteration, of making the Quorum of the Committee Four instead of Three.

This House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, this House was resumed.

Report of the Conference, about the Propositions to the King.

Then the Speaker reported the Effect of this Conference:

"That whereas their Lordships sent to the House of Commons Two Votes, tending to the uniting of the King and the People, wherein the House of Commons desired to concur with their Lordships as far as they could, for the Good of the Kingdom; but wherein they differed, they would give Reasons for their Dissent: That the House of Commons have agreed in some Things, and differ in some Particulars, according to the Note following, which they offer to their Lordships Considerations.

"The Resolutions of the House of Commons were read, as followeth:

"Resolved, upon the Question,

"That this House doth concur with the Lords in this Vote: videlicet,

"That there shall be a speedy Disbanding of both Armies.

"Resolved, &c.

"That there shall be a fixed Time appointed for disbanding of both Armies.

"Resolved, &c.

"That the Armies of both Sides in the Northern and Western Parts shall be first disbanded.

"Resolved, &c.

That the Day for the Disbanding of the Armies in the Northern and Western Parts shall be the First of March.

"Resolved, &c.

"That the Day for the Disbanding of all other Armies shall be the Tenth of March.

"Resolved, &c.

"That a Message shall be sent unto His Majesty, to desire His Consent to the Disbanding of the Armies according to the Votes of the House.

"Resolved, &c.

"That Persons shall be appointed to treat with His Majesty, concerning the Manner of Disbanding.

"The Question being put,

"Whether there shall be a present Cessation of Arms, in order to the Treaty upon the Propositions, before the Disbanding of the Armies?

"It passed with the Negative.

"Resolved, etc.

"That, when His Majesty shall have assented to a Disbanding, to the Time and Manner of Disbanding; that then a Time shall be agreed on for the Cessation of Arms in order to the Disbanding.

"The Question being put,

"Whether there should be a Treaty upon the Propositions, before the Disbanding of the Armies?

"It passed with the Negative.

"Reasons of the Votes in the Commons House, that there shall be no Treaty upon the Propositions before Disbanding:

"That a Treaty before the Disbanding will not be effectual to produce such a Peace as may secure Religion against the Designs of the Papists to destroy it, and the Prelatical Party to corrupt it, or to secure the Liberties of the Kingdom and the Privileges of Parliament against Projectors and Delinquents; the Grounds and Evidences whereof are these:

"1. Because Papists, Malignants, and other Delinquents, are now in greatest Power about the King; and this Treaty is like to be managed by their Counsels, whose Hopes and Intents are built upon the Breach and Distemper betwixt the King and His People, whereof they, having been the greatest Cause, will still endeavour to hinder such a Peace as may interrupt their own Design; whereas, if the Treaty be after the Disbanding, the Authority of Parlia ment will be more powerful to remove such Impediments.

"2. If the Treaty be before Disbanding, it will not be so safe for His Majesty to yield to any such Propositions as shall be for the suppressing of Papists and Malignants, His Person being in their Power; nor yet so safe for the Kingdom, whilst Arms are in their Hands, and so great a Party both in Ireland and beyond the Sea, to encourage and assist them in resisting the Observance and Execution of any such Treaty.

"3. If the Army be once disbanded, though the Treaties should not succeed, yet the War cannot be prosecuted, but there will be Time of Mediation to (fn. *) make up those Differences without any further shedding of Blood: Whereas, if the Armies be on Foot, upon every Difference in the Treaty, both Sides may be provoked with more Animosity and Bitterness to refer Matters to the bloody Trial of the Sword, and many intervening Accidents may interrupt the Treaty.

"That it will be more Honourable for His Majesty, and more safe for His People, that the Propositions be yielded after the Disbanding than before; for thereby His Majesty will be freed from the Imputation of granting any Thing by Force, which might both trench upon His Honour, and weaken the Validity of the Things granted; and both Houses shall be free from that Tax of Unparliamentary Proceeding, implied in His Majesty's Answer of requiring new Laws by Arms.

"That, if the Treaty be before Disbanding, it will endanger or delay His Majesty's Consent to the Disbanding at the Time limited; for there will be the same Reason on His Majesty's Part for concluding the Treaty before the Disbanding, as for the beginning it; that so, if He be like to have more Advantage by Arms than by the Treaty, He may still have it in His Power to pursue the same Ends for which His Force was at first raised: And all Delays in that Kind will make the Burthen and Miseries insupportable to the Kingdom, by the necessary Maintenance of all the Armies, and other Charges and Mischiefs which will thereby fall upon the Subject.

"Resolved, &c.

"That, forthwith after the Disbanding of both Armies, this House will send a Committee to attend His Majesty; and, by an humble Treaty, to give Him due Satisfaction concerning the Propositions sent to to them from His Majesty, and those presented from them to His Majesty."

Monies that have been subscribed by the Inhabitants of Devon to be employed for the Defence of that County.

"The Lords and Commons, taking into Consideration the imminent Danger (fn. †) the City of Exon was lately in, by reason of the Approaches of Sir Ralph Hapton and his Forces in a rebellious Manner, assailing and besieging the said City, as also of the great and extraordinary Charges and Expences the Inhabitants thereof have been put unto, in making Fortifications, and keeping many Soldiers in Pay there, for Defence and Preservation of that Place, the Safety whereof is much conducing, not only to the County of Devon, but to most of the Western Parts, and the same Peril and Danger still threatening them, the said Sir Ralph Hopton having again, in a hostile Manner, invaded the said County of Devon, and making his Approaches towards the said City; have, upon the humble Suit and Desires of the Deputy Lieutenants of the said City, thought fit to Order, and do hereby Ordain and Declare, That all such Money or Plate as hath been brought in unto, or subscribed by, any of the Inhabitants of the said City, by Authority of both or either the Houses of Parliament, before the Sheriff, or any other Person or Persons authorized in the said City to receive the same, shall be employed to and for the Public Defence of the said City; and the Deputy Lieutenants of the said City, or any Three of them, are hereby authorized to require and demand the same from all and every the Treasurers and Collectors, and other Persons, that (fn. *) were appointed to receive or have received the same, or in whose Custody or Possession the same shall be, who are hereby enjoined and commanded to pay and deliver the same accordingly; and all and every Acquittance, or Note of Receipt, in Writing, under the Hands of any Three of the Deputy Lieutenants of the said City, shall be a sufficient Discharge for such Treasurers, Collectors, or other Persons, to demand Allowance for the same upon their Accompts; and full Power and Authority is hereby given unto the Mayor and Deputy Lieutenants of the City of Exon, or any Three of them, to raise One or more Troop or Troops of Horse, for Defence and Preservation of the City and Parts adjacent, and to appoint Captains and other Officers of and for the same, and to employ the same for the Public Peace of the said City and Parts adjacent, as they, or any Three of them, shall think convenient."

Slye, Lord Chandois's Servant, a Pass.

Ordered, That Slye, a Servant of the Lord Chandois, shall have a Pass, to go quietly to Oxford, and back again.

E. of Roxborough, Leave to return to Oxford.

Ordered, That the Earl of Roxborough shall have Liberty to return to Oxford, after he hath been at London.

Ordinance concerning Nottingham.

The Messengers return with this Answer, from the House of Commons:

That they agree in the Alteration of the Word in the Ordinance concerning Nottingham. (Here enter it.)

Ordinance for seizing the Effects of Persons in Nottingham, who have been in Arms against the Parliament.

"Whereas divers desperate and ill-disposed Persons, in the County of Nott. and in the County of the Town of Nott. have been, and now are, in actual War and Rebellion against the Parliament and Kingdom, or otherwise have voluntarily contributed Money, Goods, or Plate, to the maintaining and fomenting of this unnatural War and Civil Combustion: It is therefore Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament, That the Committee nominated by both Houses of Parliament for the County of Nott. and the Committee formerly nominated for the County of the Town of Nott. or any Four of them respectively, shall have full Power and Authority, and are hereby authorized, to seize, receive, and take, all Rents, Monies, Horses, Goods, and Plate, of every the Persons so in actual War, or voluntarily contributing as aforesaid, and the said Rents, Horses, Goods, Monies, and Plate, to detain, for the Public Service and Employment of the Parliament and Kingdom, rendering Accompt therefor to the Parliament, or to such as shall be by them appointed: And it is further Ordered, That the Tenants of any such Persons as are in actual War and Rebellion against the Parliament be enjoined and required to pay the Rents accordingly into the Hands of the said Committee, or any Four of them."

Message to the H. C. to join in an Order to Colonel Venu, to remove Sir Francis Doddington from Windsor to Westminster.

It was moved, "That whereas this House made an Order for the removing of Sir Francis Doddington, from Windsor, to Mr. Brigham's House in Westm. in regard of his ill Health; but because there is an Order of both Houses, That Colonel Venn shall not deliver any Prisoners out of his Custody without Order of both Houses, he desires that the said Order may be made in the Name of both Houses:"

Hereupon this House sent a Message to the House of Commons, by Dr. Aylett and Dr. Heath:

To deliver to the House of Commons the Petition of Sir Francis Doddington, and the Order of this House made thereupon, and to desire their Concurrence in the said Order.

Footnotes

* Origin. take.
Origin. of the.
* Origin. was.