House of Lords Journal Volume 4
3 November 1641

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 4: 3 November 1641', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 4: 1629-42 (1767-1830), pp. 419-421. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=35705 Date accessed: 03 September 2014.


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DIE Mercurii, videlicet, 3 die Novembris.

PRAYERS.

Committee to attend the Queen about Phillips, the Priest.

These Lords following were appointed, to draw up the Heads of the Reasons, which the Lord Seymour is to present to the Queen from this House, concerning the Commitment of Robert Phillips to The Tower: videlicet,

Comes Monmouth.
Comes Dover.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Ds. Pagett.
Ds. Kymbolton.
Ds. Roberts.
Ds. Pierpointe.
Ds. Seymour.
Ds. Capell.

Their Lordships withdrew presently.

Sir William Berkley, etc. stayed from going to Virginia, at the Suit of Wyatt.

The Lord Admiral signified to this House, "That he had, according to their Lordships Order, stayed Sir William Berkeley, Kempe, and Wormeley, that were going to Virginia."

Hereupon Sir William Berkeley was called in, who alledged, "That he had a Patent from the King to be Governor of Virginia, Sir Francis Wyatt's Time being near expiring; and, because it should be no Prejudice to Sir Francis Wyatt, there are Stipulations made by and between Sir William Berckeley and Mr. George Sandys, in the Behalf of the said Francis Wyatt, that Sir William Berkeley should enter upon the Government and Profits thereof presently." It is therefore Ordered, That this Business shall be further [ (fn. *) considered of] To-morrow Morning, at which Time Sir William Berkeley is to be present, and Mr. George Sandys on the Behalf of Sir Francis Wyatt.

Sir John Berkley, concerning his being advised, by the L. Admiral, that he might return with Safety.

The Lord Chamberlain reported to this House, That the Lords Committees have examined Sir John Berkeley, touching a Report which he should make, that he came into England upon the Advice of the Lord Admiral that he might safely return (being fled upon his questioning for having a Hand in the Plot of giving ill Counsel unto the King's Army to force the Parliament); and that Sir John Berkeley confesses he had it in a Letter sent him from Sir Henry Killegrewe, who said he had (fn. *) it from Sir Charles Berkeley, who told him the Lord Admiral spake it to him at The Bath this Summer."

Dated 28th of October, 1641.

Hereupon the Lord Admiral, in Defence of himself, produced a Letter, which his Lordship wrote to Sir Charles Berkeley, to know whether he heard his Lordship speak any such Words: And then the Answer from Sir Charles Berkeley was read, who denied that he heard the Lord Admiral say any such Words, or give any such Advice for Sir John Berkeley's coming into England.

Upon this Relation, this House was fully satisfied; and declared, That the Lord Admiral is clear from giving any such Advice or Encouragement for Sir John Berke's Return into England, as is pretended.

Message to the Queen about Phillips.

After this, the Lords Committees presented to this House a Draught of what they conceived fit to be delivered to the Queen, from this House, by the Lord Seymour, concerning the Commitment of Robert Phillips, which was read, in these Words: videlicet,

"Phillips the Priest being required to take his Oath, he made this Objection, that, in regard the Oath was so general, he might thereby be obliged to accuse himself; and the House giving him this Satisfaction, that this Oath should not bind him to accuse himself, but only as a Witness to reveal the Truth in Matters of Treason, he was thereupon contented to take the Oath; but, a Bible being brought unto him, he, to the Scandal of the whole House of Peers, without any Occasion given, affirmed that the Bible used amongst us was not a true Bible, and therefore his Oath would not bind him; which Words he affirmed a Second Time, and after that took the Oath: Being bid to withdraw, the Lords took his Speeches concerning our Bible into Consideration; and, after some Debate, thought fit to send for him in as a Delinquent, to hear what Answer he would make to this Charge; who answered, That he was a Catholick, and that all Catholicks held this Opinion, that our Bible was no true Bible; and if, therefore, he should have taken an Oath without this Declaration, he should have confirmed this to be a true Bible; but afterwards said, that this Oath did bind him: Upon which being bid to withdraw, the Lords conceived that these Words were used without any Occasion given, or Necessity put upon him, to the Scandal of our Religion, and that in the Face of a Parliament; which to have gone without Punishment, must needs have been divulged, to the Derogation of our Religion, and to the great Dishonour of the Peers, being a Thing never before offered by any of that Religion, in the meanest Court of Justice in the Kingdom."

This being read, and approved of, the Lord Seymour was appointed to deliver it to the Queen, as from both Houses.

E. of Holland delivered the Message to the Queen, about the Prince.

It was this Day declared, "That this House is satisfied that the Earl of Holland did faithfully and truly deliver to the Queen what he was commanded by this House, concerning the Prince."

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Arthur Goodwin, Esquire:

Message from the H. C. to desire Phillips may not be allowed to speak with anybody but in Presence of his Keeper.

To let their Lordships know, that he was commanded to give their Lordships Thanks, from the House of Commons, for their Care and Honour of Religion, in committing Robert Phillips, Priest, unto The Tower; desiring that he may not be released from his Imprisonment without they be made acquainted with it: And that their Lordships would give Directions that none may speak with him at The Tower but in the Presence of some of the Keepers.

Order for it.

Ordered, upon the Request of the House of Commons, That Robert Phillips shall not be permitted to speak with any Person but in the Presence of a Keeper, until he be examined; and that he shall not be released of his present Imprisonment without the House of Commons be made acquainted therewith.

50,000 l. to the borrowed of London.

The Lord Privy Seal reported, "That Yesterday the Committees of both Houses, in the Name of the Parliament, went to the City, to propound the borrowing of Fifty Thousand Pounds, for the Irish Affairs. He said, They gave the City a full Relation of the State and Condition Ireland now is in, by reading unto them the Letters sent from the Council, and the Examinations, describing the Necessity as that Kingdom is in. It being the Cause of Religion, they were much moved at the Relation; and the Committees then told the Three Wants which the Council of Ireland desires to be speedily (fn. *) supplied with, or else that Kingdom (fn. †) will be in Danger to be lost; which are, Men, Arms, and Money. His Lordship said, The Committee told them the Parliament required nothing of them but the Loan of Money, which should be secured to them by Act of Parliament, with Advantage to themselves, with Interest: Upon this, the Mayor and Aldermen, with the Common Council, presently retired themselves, to counsel among themselves, until it was very late, and so the Committees left them. The next Morning the Recorder came to the Lords of the Council at Whitehall, and declared that he had Command from the Mayor and Aldermen and Common Council of the City:

"First, by Way of Protestation, That so great Sums of Money were drawn from them lately, that they were hardly able to supply this Occasion; yet (fn. *) such is their Zeal to this Cause, that they will do their best Endeavours herein.

Complaints from the City.

Protections too frequent.

"Secondly, He delivered, by Way of Plea from the City, 1. That Protections were so frequent, that, unless the Parliament did take some Course therein, they shall not be (fn. *) able to do the Parliament that Service they desire in this Kind, because it decays their Trading.

50,000 l. borrowed by the Council at York, not paid.

"2. Mr. Recorder further declared, That the City had formerly sent Fifty Thousand Pounds, upon the Request of the Great Council at Yorke, which was due the 22d of October last, which yet is not paid, nor any Security given; therefore they desired their Lordships to take the same into Consideration, for they relied more upon their Lordships Honour than their Security.

Power of the Lord Mayor slighted by the Commons of London.

"3. He said there was now such a slighting of the Government of the City, that there is an Equality between the Mayor and the Commons, the Power of the Mayor no more than that of the Commoners of the City. They desire but Countenance (fn. ‡) from their Lordships, and their Lordships shall have Service from them.

They will procure the Money as soon as possible.

"4. The Recorder delivered this as their Answer, That they had hearty and good Affection to the Cause, it being for Religion's Sake, the saving the Lives and Estates of Protestants, the saving of a Kingdom, and preserving it to the Dependency of this Crown; they would do their uttermost Endeavours, but would not promise any Thing, before every Man had consulted with himself what he was able to do, which they promised to do speedily; and he hoped to give a further Account hereof this Night."

Letters from Ireland to be opened.

Information being given to this House, "That a Packet of Letters were brought from Ireland;" it is Ordered, That some of the Lords Committees for this Business do presently withdraw, and open and peruse such Letters as they think may conduce to the Discovery of any Thing which concerns the Affairs of Ireland, and report the same to this House; the rest of the Letters to be delivered to the Owners.

A Letter to be written to the King, entreating His Majesty to return.

Ordered, That the Lord Privy Seal, the Earl of Bristoll, and the Bishop of Lincolne, do consider of a Draught of a Letter, which is to be sent to His Majesty into Scotland, in the Name of both Houses, expressing the great Desire the Parliament hath to enjoy His Majesty's Presence here; which Letter is to be offered to the Consideration of this House To-morrow Morning.

Kemp, &c. discharged of their Attendance.

Ordered, That Richard Kempe, Esquire, Secretary of Virginia, and Captain Christopher Wormeley (who have been staid from their Voyage to Virginia, by a former Order of this House, dated the 30th of October last, upon the Complaint of Anthony Panton, Clerk), shall have free Liberty (by virtue of this Order) to go on the Voyage; and that the Complaints of the said Panton against them are hereby referred to the Examination of the Governor and Council of Virginia.

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem crastinum, videlicet, diem Jovis, 4m diem instantis Novembris, hora 9a Aurora, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Footnotes

* Deest in Originali.
* Deest in Origin.
Origin. which.
Origin. for.