House of Lords Journal Volume 4
11 November 1641

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 4: 11 November 1641', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 4: 1629-42 (1767-1830), pp. 434-435. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=35712 Date accessed: 01 September 2014.


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DIE Jovis, videlicet, 11 die Novembris.

PRAYERS.

Letter from Ireland for Aid.

A Letter was read, sent from the Council in Ireland, to the Lord Keeper, dated the 5th of November; shewing, "That the Protestants there will be utterly destroyed, and that Kingdom lost from the Crown of England, if present Supply of Men, Munition, and Money, be not sent them from hence."

Hereupon the House Resolved, To communicate this Letter to the House of Commons, at a Conference, To this Purpose, a Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Rich and Sir Edward Leech:

Message from the H. C. for a Conference to communicate this Letter.

To desire a Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, touching a Letter lately received from the Council of Ireland, concerning the Rebellion there.

Mr. Oneal to be examined.

Pleads the Act of Oblivion.

It was signified to this House, "That Mr. Oneale, being appointed to be examined before the deputed Lords, concerning ill Counsel which was given to the King's late Army in the North, he desired, before he were examined of his supposed Crime, that he might have the Judgement of the House of Lords, and the Resolution of the House of Commons, whether the Act passed concerning an Act of Oblivion and Pacification do not interpose, and exempt him from being questioned for the supposed Crime, whether it be Civil or Criminal; this he doth not plead as a Pardon, which would imply a Crime, which he is not guilty of, but as his own Sense of that Act."

The Act of Oblivion was read; and afterwards the Lords Commissioners (that were present) did aver, "That, in their Treaty with the Scotts Commissioners, they never intended the said Act should extend further than to Things past between the Two Kingdoms of England and Scotland, in Matters of Hostility, and Things thereunto belonging, and not to Things to come."

This House to interpret Laws during the Parliament.

For further debating hereof, this House was adjourned into a Committee during Pleasure; and the House being resumed, it was Resolved, upon the Question, nemine contradicente, and hereby declared, That it belongs to this House of Peers, by the ancient Laws and Constitutions of this Kingdom, to interpret Acts of Parliament, in Time of Parliament, in any Cause that shall be brought before them.

Mr. Oneal to be examined.

And it (fn. *) was likewise Ordered, That Mr. Oneale shall be examined by the deputed Lords appointed for that Purpose, notwithstanding his Allegation.

Letters from Ireland.

The Lord Lieutenant of Ireland acquainted the House, "That he had received a Packet of Letters from Ireland." The House hereupon appointed his Lordship to retire himself, and peruse the Letters, and communicate such to the House as he thought material to the Affairs of Ireland: Which his Lordship did accordingly.

Rioters in Windsor Forest and Egham Walk rescued.

Upon Information given this Day to this House, "That certain Persons of Egham were apprehended, by Order of this House, for killing the King's Deer, and committing Riots, in the Forest of Windsor and Egham Walk, and, being in the Custody of the Messenger, were rescued (fn. *) out of his Hands, by the Violence of some of their Companions:" Hereupon it is Ordered, That a Warrant be sent to the Sheriff of Surrey, to assist the Messenger of this House, for the apprehending of the former Delinquents, and of such Persons that rescued them out of the Messengers Hands; and that they be brought before this House, that they may receive Punishment according to their Deserts.

The Messengers return with this Answer:

Answer from the H. C.

That the House of Commons will give a Meeting presently, as is desired, in the Painted Chamber.

Conference about the Letter from Ireland for Aid reported.

Then this House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed; and the Lord Keeper reported, "That he had delivered the Letter to the House of Commons, having first read it."

Letter from the Council of Ireland.

The Lord Lieutenant of Ireland presented a Letter to this House, sent from the Council of Ireland to the Council here in (fn. †) England, dated the 5th of November 1641, shewing "That the Rebels there do proceed in their Rebellion, and have seized on the Houses, Estates, and Persons, of divers Men and Women of good Quality, and have murdered many; that they are, in several Parts of Ireland, gathered to the Number of Thirty Thousand, and threaten that they will not leave an English Protestant there; and that they will not lay down their Arms, until an Act of Parliament be passed for Freedom of their Religion; that the Council desires that they may be speedily supplied with Ten Thousand Men and Arms, and One Hundred Thousand Pounds in Money; and they offer it to their Lordships Consideration, whether it be not fit and convenient that Magwire and M'Mahowne be sent into England, for their better Security, &c."

Which Letter being read, this House thought it fit to be comunicated to the House of Commons presently.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Mr. Baron Henden and Mr. Justice Malett:

Message to H. C. for a Conference about these Letters.

To desire a Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, touching Letters come from the Council of Ireland to the Lords of the Council here, being of great Haste and Importance.

The Messengers return with this Answer.

Answer.

That the House of Commons will give a present Meeting, as is desired, in the Painted Chamber.

Conference reported.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed; and the Lord Keeper reported, "That he had read the Letter at the Conference, and delivered the same unto them."

Instructions to be sent to the Committee in Scotland.

After this, the House Resolved, To have a Conference with the House of Commons, touching the Instructions which are to be sent to the Committees in Scotland; and to let them know, that this House agrees to the Six First Instructions; that, for the rest, they have been taken into Debate; but, in regard they are of great Consequence, and will require some Time of Consideration, and for that the State and Affairs of Ireland presseth a present Resolution, their Lordships have therefore thought fit to return an Answer to the Six First Articles, which immediately concern the Safety of that Kingdom; and the rest their Lordships do leave to a further Time.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Rich and Sir Edward Leech:

Message to the H. C. for a Conference about them.

To desire a present Conference (if it may stand with their Conveniency), by a Committee of both Houses, touching the Instructions which are to be sent into Scotland, to the Committees there.

Committee for Gun-powder and Salt-petre.

Ordered, That the Committee to consider of the making of good Gun-powder, and preserving of Saltpetre Mines, do meet on Saturday Morning next, at Nine a Clock; at which Time the Officers of the Ordnance and the Salt-petre Men do attend; and the King's Counsel to be present, for to prepare Heads for the drawing up of a Bill.

Ordered, That the Earl of Nottingham, Lord Newneham, and the Lord Grey de Warke, be added to the Committee for Powder.

The Messengers return with this Answer:

Answer from the H. C.

That the House of Commons will return a present Answer, by Messengers of their own.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Henry Vane, Knight, Junior:

Message from thence for this Conference, and about the Irish Affairs.

To let their Lordships know, that the House of Commons are ready to give their Lordships a Meeting, touching the Instructions which are to be sent into Scotland; and that the House of Commons desires a Free Conference, at the same Time, touching the Affairs of Ireland.

The Answer hereunto returned was:

Answer.

That their Lordships will give a present Meeting, touching the Two Particulars, as is desired, in the Painted Chamber.

Conference reported.

Propositions from the Commons.

Letters from Ireland to be imparted to London.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure; and the Lords returning from the Conference, the House was resumed. The Lord Keeper reported, "That he had delivered their Lordships Answer touching the Instructions." And next reported, "That the House of Commons desires the Letters read this Day, sent from Ireland, to the Lords of the Council, may be communicated to the City of London, to let (fn. *) them see the Truth of the Affairs of Ireland, that so they may be the better stirred up, and induced to lend Monies, for the present Supply of the Business of Ireland; and, to this Purpose, the House of Commons will employ some Members of their own."

Which Proposition this House agreed to.

Aid for Ireland.

"2. Next, that, in regard of the present urgent Occasions of Ireland, the House of Commons thinks it fit the Six Thousand Men, which both Houses resolved should be sent into Ireland out of England, shall be increased to the Number of Ten Thousand Men and Two Thousand Horse."

Which this House agreed to.

Aid from Scotland.

"3. That the House of Commons had voted, To desire the Assistance of our Brethren in Scotland, against Ireland, for Ten Thousand Men, not presently to be sent, but at such Times, and in such Manner, as shall be agreed upon by Articles and Conditions of both Parliaments, according to future Occasions."

And it was Resolved, upon the Question, That this House shall desire the Aid of our Brethren of Scotland for One Thousand Scotts, for the present, to be sent over into Ireland, with an Intimation of a Desire of Nine Thousand Men more, to make up Ten Thousand Men (if Occasion be), according to such Articles as shall be agreed upon by the Parliament of England.

Answer to these Propositions.

The House of Commons staying for an Answer in the Painted Chamber, the Lord Keeper was appointed to let them know the aforesaid Agreements and Resolution to their Propositions.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went into the Painted Chamber, to the House of Commons. The House being resumed;

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli, declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem crastinum, videlicet, diem Veneris, 12m instantis Novembris, hora 11a Aurora, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Footnotes

* Deest in Originali.
Origin. Ireland.
* Deest in Origin.