House of Lords Journal Volume 4
18 November 1641

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 4: 18 November 1641', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 4: 1629-42 (1767-1830), pp. 445-446. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=35718 Date accessed: 20 October 2014.


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DIE Jovis, videlicet, 18 die Novembris.

PRAYERS.

Conference of Yesterday reported.

The Lord Keeper reported the Effect of the Conference Yesterday with the House of Commons: videlicet,

Opinion of the H. C. concerning securing the Persons of Recusants.

"That the House of Commons were of Opinion, That there was Occasion enough now, to join for the securing the Persons of Popish Recusants; and that they were not satisfied with their Lordships Answer at this Time touching that Business:

"1. Because they conceive the Popish Recusants are of as much Danger in the Country, amongst their Friends and Neighbours of their Religion, as they are here at this Time, especially when they have Liberty to go abroad.

"2. That the Penalty is only against convicted Recusants; and the House of Commons desires it may be against suspected Persons and Favourers of Recusants.

"3. It would ask too much Time to stay for the putting the Laws into Execution at this Time; therefore the House of Commons desired that they may be secured by imprisoning of their Persons, and that for these Reasons:

"1. They always took Security against the Breach of the Peace, if it concern a private Person; this concerning the Security of the whole Kingdom, none is so sitting to be given as the Imprisonment of their Persons.

"2. At this Time they had Reasons to suspect the Papists, and to secure them, upon these Grounds:

"1. The Tie that lies upon their Consciences to secure the Kingdom when it is so much in Danger.

"2. Considering the Rebellion now in Ireland, for the Cause of Religion.

"3. Considering the Informations and Relations from sundry Parts, of the Danger of Recusants here; and the Correspondency (fn. *) it is conceived they have with the Business in Ireland.

"4. Considering both Houses had joined by Ordinance to disarm Recusants, according to Law.

"This, the House of Commons said, had been done formerly, upon Suspicion of Danger, as in 88.

"The House of Commons intended this should extend to the most chief and active Recusants, of the greatest Quality and Danger; a List of such Names as they desire may be secured, the House of Commons will bring up very speedily; and they intend they should be as Hostages for the Peace and Security of the Kingdom, no Hurt being meant to their Persons. If this were not done, the House of Commons said, they could not answer for the Safety of the Kingdom."

And about sequestering the Isle of Wight from the E. of Portland.

Next was reported, "That the House of Commons delivered some Reasons why they desired that the Government of the Isle of Wight, being of so great Importance to this Kingdom, may be sequestered for the present into another Hand:

"1. Because the Earl of Portland's Father, Mother, and his Wife, were and are Recusants; and that a Sister of his married a Recusant.

"If these Reasons did not satisfy their Lordships, they desired Liberty to bring up other Reasons hereafter, as they shall think fit."

To debate these Particulars, this House was adjourned into a Committee during Pleasure; and concerning the First Proposition, touching the securing the Persons of Reusants for the Safety of the Kingdom, it was thought fit, and agreed, That the further Debate thereof should be deferred until the House of Commons brought up the particular Names of such Popish Recusants as they desired might be secured; and then this House fell into Debate and Consideration of the Request of the House of Commons, to join to move the King for the sequestering of the Isle of Wight into another Hand, in this Time of Danger.

E. of Portland's Defence.

Then the Earl of Portland affirmed, "That his Father lived and died a Protestant, as he can make it appear by credible Witnesses that were with him when he died. If his Wife be one, he said, it was against his Will; and for himself, his Lordship professed, that his Father bred him a Protestant, and he would ever live and die one."

Committee to draw up an Answer to the H. C. in this Business.

After he had spoken this, he withdrew himself; and then the House took the Merits of the Cause into Consideration. And, after a long Debate, the House was resumed; and the Lord Admiral, Lord Chamberlain, Earl of South'ton, Earl of Bristoll, Earl of Holland, and the Lord Viscount Say & Seale, were appointed to consider, and draw up, upon Consideration of the whole Debate, what is fit to return by Way of Answer to the House of Commons, concerning this Business. Their Lordships went presently into the Prince's Lodgings.

Ld. Loftus's Cause.

Ordered, That the Lord Viscount Loftus's Cause is deferred to be heard until this Day Fortnight.

Croft's sworn.

Mr. William Crofts was sworn, and is to be examined before the deputed Lords.

Wall discharged of his Imprisonment and Attendance.

The Petition of Thomas Wall was read; declaring his Sorrow for his offending this House; desiring their Lordships Pardon for the same, and that he may be released from his Imprisonment: Hereupon it is Ordered, That he be released of his Imprisonment, but not to be admitted as an Attendant about the House.

The Venetian Ambassador's Excuse about his Paper.

The Earl of Holland reported, "That the Venetian Ambassador had been with him, and desired that the ill Expressions in his Paper may be excused, for (fn. *) he professes he meant nothing in Derogation of any Member of this House, but spoke it as what Reputation other States had of such an Action; and that he further signified, That he hath written a fair Letter to the State of Venice, concerning the opening of his Letters, which he hopes will satisfy them."

Answer to the H. of C. about the E. of Portland.

The Lords Committees reported the Draught of an Answer to be given to the House of Commons, touching the Earl of Portland, which was read, and approved of: videlicet,

"That, in the Desire concerning the Earl of Portland, it seemeth by the Reasons alledged by them, that they are doubtful of his Religion; wherein he hath publicly in the House made so solemn Protestation of his having been ever bred in the Protestant Religion, and of his firm Resolution to live and die in the same, as hath given good Content in that Particular.

"And for that which concerns his Father, he affirmed that he lived and died a Protestant, which the Lords thought good to acquaint them with."

Agreed, That this should be communicated to the House of Commons, at the next Conference.

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Veneris, videlicet, 19m diem instantis Novembris, hora 12a Aurora, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Footnotes

* Deest in Originali.
* Origin. his.