House of Lords Journal Volume 4
27 December 1641

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 4: 27 December 1641', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 4: 1629-42 (1767-1830), pp. 490-493. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=35748 Date accessed: 26 November 2014.


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DIE Lunæ, videlicet, 27 die Decembris.

PRAYERS.

False Reports concerning a Speech by the E. of Newport, about seizing the Queen and Her Children, at a Meeting of some Lords and Commoners at Kensington.

Information was given to this House, "That some Members of this House have had false Rumours reported of them, which was, That, during the Time of the King's being last in Scotland, it was told the Queen, that, at a Meeting at Kensington (where the Earl of Essex, the Earl of Newport, the Lord Viscount Say & Seale, the Lord Mandevile, and the Lord Wharton, Members of this House, and the Lord Dungarvan, Mr. Nath. Fynes, Sir Jo. Clatworthy, and Mr. Jo. Pym, Members of the House of Commons, were present), upon a Discourse of some Plots that should be done in this Kingdom or in Scotland, the Earl of Newport should say, If there be such a Plot, yet here are His Wife and Children; meaning that the Person of the Queen and Her Children should be seized upon."

Upon this, the Earl of Newport stood up, and gave the House this Account:

E. of Newport's Defence.

"That, hearing of such an Information which had been presented to the Queen, he went with some other Lords, and waited on the Queen, and, with many Protestations, assured the Queen, that never any such Words were spoken, nor the least Thought thereof conceived, of any such Fact; with which the Queen seemed to rest satisfied.

"But, upon Friday last, His Majesty asked his Lordship, whether he heard any Debate at Kensington, about Seizing upon the Queen and Her Children; which his Lordship denying, His Majesty replied again, That He was sorry for his Lordship's ill Memory."

This Information being ended, the House considering it to be a Matter of great Consequence, and because some Members of the House of Commons are concerned therein, it was thought (fn. *) fit to have a Conference, that they would join with their Lordships in making narrow Search into this Business, that so the Bottom of it may be found out, and the Reporter of this false Rumour brought to condign Punishment.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Baron Henden and Justice Mallet:

Message to the H. C. for a Conference about this.

To desire a present Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, touching some scandalous Report concerning some Members of both Houses.

Committee to prepare Heads for it.

These Lords following were appointed to draw up the Heads of this Conference: videlicet,

The L. Archbp. of Yorke.
L. Admiral.
Comes Bristoll.
Comes Holland.
Ds. Robartes.
Ds. Savill.

These Lords withdrew presently.

Tumult at the Door of the Parliament. Gentleman Usher sent to disperse them.

There being a Concourse of People about the Parliament Door, and the Places adjoining, the Gentleman Usher was directed to go and command them, in the King's Name, to be gone, and disperse themselves to their Places of Abode, or else they shall be proceeded against according to Law.

Their Answer.

The Gentleman Usher returned this Answer to the House: "That he had commanded the People, in the King's Name, to be gone; and they are willing so to do, but they say they dare not, because there is Colonel Lunsdford, with other Soldiers, in Westminster Hall, that lie in Wait for them, with their Swords drawn; and that some of them that were going through Westm. Hall Home, have been wounded and cut in their Heads by the said Soldiers."

Committee appointed to enquire the Cause of the Tumult.

The House, taking this into Consideration, appointed these Lords Committees following, to examine what Warning hath been given to Soldiers to come down this Day unto the Parliament House, and likewise what Notice hath been given to others to come down to Westm. in Multitudes, and who gave the Occasion that Swords were drawn, and Blows given, in Westm. Hall, and near thereabouts, amongst the People; and to inquire why the Justices of Peace, and other His Majesty's Officers, did not prevent the Tumults this Day, according to Law, and the Commands formerly given them.

The Names of the Committee: videlicet,

The L. Steward.
The L. Great Chamberlain.
L. Chamberlain.
Comes Bedford.
Comes South'ton.
Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Sarum.
Comes Warwicke.
Comes Clare.
Comes Carnarvan.
Lo. Visc. Say & Seale.
Epus. London.
Epus. Durham.
Epus. Winton.
Epus. Cov. & Litchfeild.
Epus. Bath. & Wells.
Ds. St. Johns.
Ds. Digby.
Ds. Kymbolton.
Ds. Goringe.
Ds. Dunsemore.
Ds. Seymour.
Ds. Mowbray.
Ds. Wentworth.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. Pagett.
Ds. Brooke.
Ds. Howard de Charlton.
Ds. Robartes.
Ds. Pierpoint.
Ds. Howard de Estcrik.
Ds. Spencer.

Their Lordships, or any Seven of them, to meet on Tuesday, the 28th of December, 1641, at Nine a Clock in the Morning, in the Painted Chamber, and when after they please.

The Lord Archbishop of Yorke reported the Heads of the Conference; which, being read, were approved of, and were to be communicated to the House of Commons.

The Messengers return this Answer from the House of Commons:

Answer from the H. C.

That they will give a present Meeting [ (fn. *) as is desired], in the Painted Chamber.

Hereupon the House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

The Scots Propositions concerning Ireland.

Then the Lords Commissioners delivered in all the Scotts Commissioners Propositions, which were read: videlicet,

"Since it is desired that we should give in all our Propositions concerning the Ten Thousand Men that are to be sent out of Scotland into Ireland, we do offer to your Considerations these following Propositions to those we have already given in.

"1. In respect that the Country is for the most Part wasted by the Rebels, and that it is necessary, for the better Provision and Safety of our Army, that there be delivered unto us some Places convenient for the preserving of our Victuals, and for Retreat in Case of Necessity; it is therefore desired, that the Town and Castle of Carrickfergus, Colraine, and Londonderry, be put into our Hands, wherein we may plant Garrisons, and make Use of them, for Magazines of Victuals, Arms, and Munition, and for Retreat upon any Occasion; and that the Magistrates and Inhabitants thereof be ordained to carry themselves to any of our Commanders there as is fit and ordinary in such Cases, we giving Assurance to use them with all Brotherly Kindness and Respect, and to give full Satisfaction for what we shall receive from them; and that we shall make use of the said Places for the Honour and Advantage of His Majesty and the Crown of England, and faithfully restore them to any having Commission from the King and Parliament, when the War shall end; or that our Army shall be by them discharged and satisfied of all Dues and Conditions made in this present Treaty.

"2. That the Town of Carrickfergus, Colraine, and London-Derry, be instantly provided with Victuals of all Kinds, necessary for Soldiers, both for the Garrisons, and to furnish the Army, or any Part thereof, in Expeditions into any Part of the Province, or where they shall go, for Payment of such reasonable Prices as shall be agreed upon; and that likewise Powder, Bullet, and Match, be sufficiently provided, for at least Six Thousand Musketeers, and Four and Twenty or Thirty Pieces of good Ordnance; and that there be Gunsmiths, and ingenious Carpenters, sent thither, for the mending of Guns and Carriages, and such like; One Engineer or Two to attend our Army; and that some Hand-mills be provided for the Companies in Marches.

"3. That Horses be provided for the Baggage of the Army and Train of Artillery, and Carts for Carriage of Bread, and other Provisions, for the Month; and that, to make Dragooners, every Hundred Men have Ten Horses appointed for them.

"4. That the Inhabitants of any Towns or Villages, in any Province where our Army shall be, for the Time, be appointed to receive Orders from our Commanders, and to bring in Victuals for Money, in an orderly Way, as shall be directed by them, with Provisions of Oats, Hay, and Straw, and such other Necessaries; and that, when it shall be found for the Good of the Service, the Country People which are not levied in Regiments be ordained to rise, and concur with our Troops, and receive Commands and Directions from our Commanders.

"5. That the Troops of the Kingdom of Scotland go in the Way and Order of an Army, under their own General and Subaltern Officers; and that they have a Circle, or Province, appointed them, which they shall fall upon and assail, wherein they shall prosecute the War as in their Judgement they shall think expedient for the Honour of the King and Crown of England; and that they have Power to give Conditions to Towns, Castles, and Persons, which shall render and submit themselves, as they shall find for the Good of the Service wherein they are employed, which they shall oblige themselves faithfully to do and perform to the uttermost of their Power, and shall be answerable to His Majesty and the Parliament of England for their whole Deportment and Proceedings, whereof they shall from Time to Time give them an Account: That such Towns and Places as shall be recovered from the Rebels by our Army be at the disposing of our Commanders, during their Abode there; and when it shall please God that the Rebellion shall be suppressed in the Circle assigned to our Army, they shall be ready to do Service in any other Place which shall be appointed to them; and, if it shall be found for the Good of the Service that our Army join with the King's Lieutenant and his Army, that our General shall only cede to the King's Lieutenant of Ireland, and receive in a free and honourable Way Instructions from him, or in his Absence from the Lord Deputy, or any other who shall have the Government of that Kingdom by Authority derived from the Crown of England, and shall precede all others, and only give Orders to the Officers of his own Army; and that the Armies (fn. *) the Right and Left Hand, Van, and Rear Charges, and Retreat successively, and mix not in Quarterings nor Marchings; and, if it shall be found fit to send Troops out of either Army, that the Persons to be sent out of our Army be appointed by their own General, the Lieutenant of Ireland prescribing the Number, which shall not exceed the Fourth Part of our Army, whereunto they shall return after the Service is done.

"And that no Officer of ours be commanded by one of his own Quality; and, if the Commanders of the Troops so sent out of either Army be of one Quality, that they command the Party by Turns.

"6. That our Army be assured of Three Months Pay, to be put in the Hands of Treasurers and Commissaries appointed by us at their Rendezvous in Ireland; and that, before that Time expires, there be a Month's Pay put in their Hands, and so from Month to Month; and in this, that our Brethren of England may be put to no more Charge than is just and necessary, and that it may appear we offer our Assistance for Love only, we do desire that there be a Muster-master appointed, to make strict and frequent Musters of our Troops, and that their Ways be so looked unto that they make no such unlawful Advantages.

"7. Seeing we have voluntarily and freely made Offer of our Forces to this Service, and to transport them to Ireland upon our own Charges, and will be subject to all Hazards which may follow thereupon, and will have the same Friends and Enemies with England in this Employment, and must therein stand and all with them, we expect and desire that the King and State of England will take us in the same Consideration, and reward our Service with the like Honours, Recompences, and Plantations, as they shall do the English or Irish who shall deserve well in this Business; for, if we shall, with the Hazard of our Lives, do good Service to His Majesty and the Crown of England, it is most agreeable to Reason that we be Sharers of the Fruits of our Pains, the Persons so rewarded being always tied to the same Conditions, and being subject to His Majesty and Crown of England as the English are and shall be.

"Sic subscribitur,

"Ja. Primrose."

Ordered, That these Propositions be debated Tomorrow.

Letter from the Council of Ireland, about Ships at Dunkirk being laded with Arms for Ireland.

Next, a Letter was read, written from the Council of Ireland, to the Lord Lieutenant, dated the 30th of November; the principal Contents whereof was, "That they understand that there are Ships laden with Arms and Ammunition at Dunkerk, to be carried to the Rebels in Ireland; and that the Rebels are on both Sides of Treda, which makes that Town in great Want for Victuals."

To be communicated to the H. C.

This Letter is to be communicated to the House of Commons.

Further Information of Men and Arms at Dunkirk for the Rebels in Ireland.

The House was informed by the Earl of Warwicke, "That he had received Information that there were Four Ships laden at Dunkerke with Arms, and that Men are providing there to be shipped for Ireland:" Hereupon it is Ordered, That his Lordship be desired, by the next Packet Boat that goes for those Parts, to send over some discreet Men, to give true Informations of the Preparations there.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Edward Hungerford, Knight:

Message from the H. C. to join in a Petition to learn who the Informer of the Report was, concerning the Earl of Newport.

To let their Lordships know, that the House of Commons are very willing to join with their Lordships, to search the Business to the Bottom, touching the scandalous Report which hath been made to His Majesty of the Earl of Newporte, and some Members of the House of Commons; and the House of Commons do intreat their Lordships to join with them in an humble Petition to His Majesty, that He would be pleased to express and discover who the Person is that did inform His Majesty thereof; and that His Majesty would be pleased to move the Queen, that She would likewise reveal who the Informer was of that false Report.

Petition to be drawn up for that Purpose.

Ordered, That this House will join with the House of Commons in the Matter of this Conference; and that the Committee appointed this Day to draw up Heads for the Conference are likewise appointed to meet with a Committee of a proportionable Number of the House of Commons, to make a Draught of a Petition to be presented to His Majesty concerning this Business, and the Committee to meet To-morrow Morning, at Nine a Clock.

A Message was sent down to the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Rich and Mr. Page:

Message to the H. C. to acquaint them with it.

To acquaint the House of Commons with the aforesaid Order.

More Tumults about the House.

The Gentleman Usher was sent again to the People gathered together about the Parliament Houses, and was to let them know, "That this House dislikes their coming in Multitudes, and commands them to be gone; and, if they have received Injury or Hurt by any body, if they represent their Names to this House, their Lordships will see that Justice be done."

The Messengers return with this Answer:

Answer from the H. C.

That the House of Commons will return an Answer, in convenient Time, by Messengers of their own.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Hollis:

Further Answer.

That they have appointed a proportionable Number of their House, to meet with the Lords Committees Tomorrow Morning, to prepare a Petition to present to His Majesty, from both Houses, to desire Him that He would be pleased to express who (fn. *) told Him of the Report concerning the Earl of Newporte and some Members of the House of Commons; and that His Majesty would be pleased to move the Queen to do the like.

Message to the H. C. for a Conference, concerning the Tumults about the Parliament.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Rich and Dr. Bennett:

To desire a present Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, if it may stand with their Conveniency, concerning the Multitudes of People gathered about the Houses of Parliament.

Committee to prepare Heads for it.

These Lords following were appointed to draw up Heads for the Conference:

The Archbp. of Yorke.
Comes Bathon.
Comes South'ton.
Comes Bristoll.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. Digby.
Ds. Robartes.
Ds. Savill.
Ds. Goringe.

The Messengers return with this Answer:

Answer.

That the House of Commons will give a present Meeting, as is desired, in the Painted Chamber.

The Committee reported the Heads for the Conference, which were read: videlicet,

Heads for the Conference.

"1. To desire the House of Commons to join with this House in a Declaration, to be printed and published, of their Dislike of the assembling of the People in such Companies and Disorders, about the Houses of Parliament.

"2. To join with them in a Petition to His Majesty, that the Houses of Parliament may have a Guard.

"3. To desire that the House of Commons will give an Answer with such Speed as the Necessity of the Occasion doth require."

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

Arms to be sent to Ireland.

Ordered, That the Lord Steward, the Lord Great Chamberlain, the Earl of Bath, the Earl of Bristoll, and the Earl of Holland, do move His Majesty, That He will be pleased to give Warrants to the Earl of Newport, Master of the Ordnance, that Powder and Armour and Ammunition be (fn. *) forthwith sent for the Province of Munster, and other Places in the Kingdom of Ireland, for His Service there, and the Defence of that Kingdom.

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Martis, videlicet, 28m diem instantis Decembris, hora 2a post meridiem, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Footnotes

* Deest in Originali.
* Bis in Originali.
* Sic.
* Deest in Originali.
* Origin. forth.