House of Lords Journal Volume 4
24 March 1642

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 4: 24 March 1642', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 4: 1629-42 (1767-1830), pp. 666-669. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=35810 Date accessed: 30 September 2014.


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DIE Jovis, videlicet, 24 die Martii.

PRAYERS.

The Lord Keeper was appointed to be Speaker this Day.

Archbishop of Cant. to present Mr. Smith to St. Leonard's.

Upon reading the Petition of the Archbishop of Canterbury; it is Ordered, That he shall confer forthwith the Presentation of St. Leonard's, Foster Lane, upon George Smith, Clerk, according to former Orders of this House.

Petition of the impeached Judges.

Counsel assigned them.

Upon reading the Petition of the Judges impeached by the House of Commons; it is Ordered, That the said Judges shall have Liberty to make their several Answers and Defences, by their Counsel, on Thursday the 31st of this Instant March, to the several Impeachments brought up against them by the House of Commons; and it is further Ordered, That Mr. Herne, Mr. Chute, Mr. Fountaine, Mr. Adams, the Prince's Attorney, Serjeant Pheasant, Serjeant Bacon, and Serjeant Roules, are hereby assigned them for Counsel.

Next, was read the Answer of the Lord Marquis of Hertford: videlicet,

Marquis of Hertford's Answer concerning his Commission of Lieutenancy.

"He says, he should be very glad to obey this House, and serve the Commonwealth in what he may: but desires, at this Time, to be excused for accepting of the Lieutenancy of the County of Som'sett, for this Reason, That he was not at the Debate of the Militia, and therefore is utterly ignorant of what hath passed in it; neither doth he yet know that the King hath given His Consent to it, without which, he hopes, your Lordships will not impose it upon him.

"For the Return of the Commission of Lieutenancy and Commission of Array for the County of Som'settshire, it was in joint Commission with the Lord Phillip Herbert, and his Lordship conceives it is in his Hands, because he never made Use of it, neither doth he know that he hath any; but, if he shall find any such, he will deliver it to their Lordships."

E. Bridgewater's Answer concerning his Commission of Lieutenancy.

The Earl of Bridgewater returns this Answer, "That he knows not whether his Commission of Lieutenancy be at Ludlow, or at his Country House; but he will send for it with all convenient Speed, for he doth willingly submit unto their Lordships Order."

Ld. Strange accepted not of the Lieutenancy of Chester.

The Lord Strange desired their Lordships to excuse him for not accepting his Lieutenancy of the County of Chester; of which Refusal this House accepted of.

Ld. Wharton accepted of the Lieutenancy of Lancaster.

(fn. *) The Lord Wharton accepted of the Lieutenancy for the County of Lancaster; and said, "he would deliver the Names of Deputy Lieutenants to the House of Commons within a few Days."

These Answers communicated to the H. C.

Ordered, That the aforesaid Answers of the Lord Marquis of Hertford, the Earl of Bridgwater, and the Lord Strange, be communicated to the House of Commons, which were accordingly sent down, by Message by Sir Robert Rich and Mr. Page.

The King's Answer concerning Earl Warwick's being Commander in chief at Sea under the Ld. Admiral.

The Lord Admiral reported to the House the King's Answer, concerning the Earl of Warwicke to be employed by the Lord Admiral, to be chief Commander in this Summer's Fleet: videlicet,

"That His Majesty sees no Reason, why He should give Way to the Alteration of him, who was first made Choice of by the Lord Admiral for that Charge, and approved of by His Majesty; and therefore His Majesty cannot, in Honour or Justice, approve of any other for that Charge than Sir John Pennington, of whose Ability and Integrity His Majesty hath had so long and good Experience."

Ordered, That the Letter sent to the Lord Admiral from the King, concerning the Earl of Warwicke, shall be communicated to the House of Commons, with an Expression of a Desire that both Houses of Parliament may join in an humble Petition to His Majesty, that the Earl of Warwicke may command in chief in this Summer's Fleet; and to present what Reasons shall be thought fit for the said Desire.

Commission for the Royal Assent to the Bill for 400,000l.

After this, the Lord Keeper signified to this House, That the Commission is returned, signed by the King, for giving the Royal Assent to the Bill for raising Four Hundred Thousand Pounds."

Likewise his Lordship acquainted the House, "That he had received Two Letters from His Majesty;" which Letters were commanded by the House to be opened, and read, as followeth:

"To our Right Trusty and Well-beloved Counsellor, Edward Lord Littleton, Lord Keeper of Our Great Seal of England.

CHARLES R.

"Right Trusty and Well-beloved Counsellor, We greet you well. Our Will and Command is, That, at the next Sitting of Our House of Peers, after your Receipt hereof, you deliver Our Declaration inclosed, in Answer to that presented to Us at Newmarket the 9th of this present, to be read in Our said House, and afterwards communicated to Our House of Commons. For which this shall be your Warrant.

"Given at Our Court at Yorke, the 21st of March, 1641.

His Majesty's Answer to the Declaration of both Houses against Fears and Jealousies, and Ill Copnsels.

"Though the Declaration lately presented to Us at Newmarket, from both Our Houses of Parliament, be of so strange a Nature, in respect of what We expected, after so many Acts of Grace and Favour to Our People, and some Expressions in it so different from the usual Language to Princes, that We might well take a very long Time to consider it; yet the Clearness and Uprightness of Our Conscience to God, and Love to Our Subjects, hath supplied Us with a speedy Answer; and Our unalterable Affection to Our People prevailed with Us to suppress that Passion, which might well enough become Us upon such an Incitation.

"We have considered Our Answer by the First of this Month at Theobalds, which is urged to have given just Cause of Sorrow to Our Subjects: Whosoever looks over that Message (which (fn. *) was in Effect to tell Us, that, if We would not join with them, in an Act which We conceived might prove prejudicial and dangerous to Us and the whole Kingdom, they would make Law without Us, and impose it upon Our People) will not think that sudden Answer can be excepted to.

"We have little Encouragement to Replies of this Nature, when We are told of how little Value Our Words are like to be with you, though they come accompanied with all the Actions of Love and Justice, where there is Room for Actions to accompany them; yet We cannot but disavow the having of any such evil Counsel or Counsellors about Us, to Our Knowledge, as are mentioned; and if any such be discovered, We will leave them to the Censure and Judgement of Our Parliament. In the mean Time, We could wish that Our own immediate Actions (which We avow) and Our own Honour might not be so roughly censured under that common Stile of evil Counsellors.

"For Our faithful and zealous Affection to the true Protestant Profession, and Our Resolution to concur with Our Parliament in any possible Course for the Propagation of it, and Suppression of Popery; We can say no more than We have already expressed in Our Declaration to all Our loving Subjects, published in January last, by the Advice of Our Privy Council; in which We endeavoured to make as lively a Confession Ourself in this Point as We were able, being most assured that the constant Practice of Our Life hath been answerable thereunto; and therefore We did rather expect a Testimony and Acknowledgement of such Our Zeal and Piety, than those Expressions We meet with in this Declaration of any Design of altering Religion in this Kingdom; and We do, out of the Innocency of Our Soul, with that the Judgements of Heaven may be manifested upon those who have or had any such Design.

"As for the Scotts Troubles, We had well thought those unhappy Differences had been wrapt up in perpetual Silence by the Act of Oblivion, which being solemnly passed in the Parliaments of both Kingdoms, stops Our Mouth from any other Reply, than to shew Our great Dislike for reviving the Memory thereof.

"If the Rebellion in Ireland (so odious to all Christians) seems to have been framed and maintained in England, or to have any Countenance from hence, We conjure both Our Houses of Parliament, and all other loving Subjects whatsoever, to use all possible Means to discover and find out such, that We may join in the most exemplary Vengeance upon them than can be imagined: But We must think Ourself highly and causelessly injured in Our Reputation, if any Declaration, Action, or Expression of the Irish Rebels, any Letter from Count Rosetti to the Papists for Fasting and Praying, or from Trestram Whitcombe of strange Speeches uttered in Ireland, shall beget any Jealousy or Misapprehension in Our Subjects, of Our Justice, Piety, and Affection; it being evident to all Understandings that mischievous and wicked Rebels are not so capable of great Advantage, as by having their false Discourses so far believed, as to raise Fears and Jealousies to the Distraction of this Kingdom, the only Way to their Security: And We cannot express a deeper Sense of the Sufferings of Our poor Protestant Subjects in that Kingdom than We have done in Our often Messages to both Houses, by which We have offered, and are still ready to venture, Our Royal Person for their Redemption; well knowing that, as We are (in Our own Interest) more concerned in them, so We are to make a strict Accompt to Almighty God for any Neglect of Our Duty, or their Preservation.

"For the manifold Attempts to provoke Our late Army, and the Army of the Scotts, and to raise a Faction in the City of London and other Parts of the Kingdom, if it be said as relating to Us, We cannot (without great Indignation) suffer Ourself to be reproached to have intended the-least Force or Threatening to Our Parliament, as the being privy to the bringing up of the Army would imply; whereas We call God to Witness, We never had any such Thought, or know of any such Resolution, concerning Our late Army. For the Petition shewed to Us by Captain Legg, We well remember the same, and the Occasion of that Conference: Captain Legg being lately come out of the North, and repairing to Us at Whitehall, We asked him of the State of Our Army, and (after some Relation made of it) he told Us that the Commanders and Officers of the Army had a Mind to petition the Parliament, as others of Our People had done, and shewed Us the Copy of a Petition, which We read; and finding it to be very humble, desiring the Parliament might receive no Interruption in the Reformation of the Church and State to the Model of Queen Elizabeth's Days, We told him We saw no Harm in it; whereupon he replied, That he believed all the Officers of the Army would like it, only he thought Sir Jacob Ashley would be unwilling to sign it, out of Fear that it might displease Us. We then read the Petition over again; and then observing nothing in Matter or Form We conceived could possibly give just Cause of Offence, We delivered it to him again, bidding him give it Sir Jacob Ashley, for whose Satisfaction We had written C. R. upon it, to testify Our Approbation; and We with that the Petition might be seen and published, and then We believe it will appear no dangerous one, nor a just Ground for the least Jealousy or Misapprehension.

"For Mr. Jermyn, it is well known that he was gone from Whitehall before We received the Desire of both Houses for the Restraint of Our Servants; neither returned he thither, or passed over by any Warrant granted by Us, after that Time.

"For the Breach of Privilege, in the Accusation of the Lord Kymbolton and the Five Members of the House of Commons, We thought We had given so ample Satisfaction, in Our several Messages to that Purpose, that it should be no more pressed against Us; being confident, if the Breach of Privilege had been greater than hath been ever before offered, Our Acknowledgement hath been greater than ever King hath given, besides the not examining how many of Our Privileges have been invaded in Defence and Vindication of the other; and therefore We hoped Our true and earnest Protestation, in Our Answer to your Order concerning the Militia, would so far have satisfied you of Our Intentions then, that you would no more have entertained any other Imagination of any other Design than We there expressed. But why the listing of so many Officers, and entertaining them at Whitehall, should be misconstrued, We much marvel, when it is notoriously known the Tumults at Westm. were so great, and their Demeanour so scandalous and seditious, that We had good Cause to suppose Our own Person, and those of Our Wife and Children, to be in apparent Danger; and therefore We had great Reason to appoint a Guard about Us, and to accept the dutiful Tender of the Services of any of Our loving Subjects, which was all We did to the Gentlemen of the Inns of Court.

"For the Lord Digby, We assure you, in the Word of a King, that he had Our Warrant to pass the Seas, and had left Our Court, before We ever heard of the Vote of the House of Commons, or had any Cause to imagine that his Absence would have been excepted against.

"What your Advertisements are from Rome, Venice, Paris, and other Parts, or what the Pope's Nuncio solicits the Kings of France or Spaine to do, or from what Persons such Informations come to you, or how the Credit and Reputation of such Persons have been sifted and examined, We know not; but are confident, no sober honest Man in Our Kingdoms can believe that We are so desperate, or so senseless, to entertain such Designs, as would not only bury this Our Kingdom in sudden Distraction and Ruin, but Our own Name and Posterity in perpetual Scorn and Infamy; and therefore We could have wished, that, in Matters of so high and tender a Nature (whereby the Minds of Our good Subjects must needs be startled) all the Expressions were so plain and easy, that nothing might stick with them with Reflection on Us, since you thought fit to publish it at all.

"And having now dealt thus plainly and freely with you, by Way of Answer to the particular Grounds of your Fears, We hope (upon a due Consideration and Weighing both together) you will not find the Grounds to be of that Moment to beget, or longer to continue, a Misunderstanding betwixt us, or force you to apply yourselves to the Use of any other Power, than what the Law hath given you; the which We always intend shall be the Measure of Our own Power, and expect it shall be the Rule of Our Subjects Obedience.

"Concerning Our Fears and Jealousies, as We had no Intention of accusing you, so are We sure no Words spoken by Us (on the sudden) at Theobalds will bear that Interpretation.

"We said, for Our Residence near you, we wished it might be so safe, and so honourable, that We had no Cause to absent Ourself from Whitehall; and how this can be a Breach of Privilege of Parliament We cannot understand: We explained Our Meaning in Our Answer, at Newmarket, at the Presentation of the Declaration concerning the printed seditious Pamphlets and Sermons, and the great Tumults at Westm. and We must appeal to you, and all the World, whether We might not justly suppose Ourself in Danger of either; and if We were now at Whitehall, what Security have We that the like shall not be again? especially if any Delinquents of that Nature have been apprehended by the Ministers of Justice, and been (fn. *) rescued by the People, and so as yet escape unpunished. If you have not been informed of the seditious Words used in, and the Circumstances of those Tumults, and will appoint some Way for the Examination of them, We will require some of Our Learned Counsel to attend, with such Evidence as may satisfy you; and, till that be done, or some other Course taken for Our Security, you cannot (with Reason) wonder that We intend not to be where We must desire to be.

"And can there yet want Evidence of Our hearty and importunate Desire to join with Our Parliament, and all Our faithful Subjects, in Defence of Our Religion and Public Good of the Kingdom? Have We given you no other Earnest but Words to secure you of those Desires? The very Remonstrance of the House of Commons (published in November last) of the State of the Kingdom allows Us a more real Testimony of Our good Affections than Words; that Remonstrance valued Our Acts of Grace and Justice at so high a Rate, that it declared the Kingdom to be then a Gainer, though it had charged itself, by Bills of Subsides and Poll-money, with the Levy of Six Hundred Thousand Pounds, besides the contracting of a Debt to Our Scotts Subjects of Two Hundred and Twenty Thousand Pounds.

"Are the Bills for the Triennial Parliament; for relinquishing Our Title of imposing upon Merchandize, and Power of pressing of Soldiers; for the taking away of the Star-chamber and High Commission Court; for the regulating the Council Table; but Words? Are the Bills for the Forests, the Stannary Courts, the Clerk of the Markets, and the taking away the Votes of the Bishops out of the Lords House, but Words? Lastly, what greater Earnest of Trust and Reliance on Our Parliament could or can We give, than the passing of the Bills for the Continuance of this present Parliament? the Length of which (We hope) will never alter the Nature of Parliaments, and the Constitution of this Kingdom, or invite Our Subjects so much to abuse Our Confidence as to esteem any Thing fit for this Parliament to do, which were not, if it were in Power to dissolve it To-morrow.

"And, after all these and many other Acts of Grace on Our Part (that We might be sure of a perfect Reconciliation betwixt Us and all Our Subjects), We have offered, and are still ready, to grant a Free and General Pardon, as ample as yourselves shall think fit. Now, if these be not real Expressions of the Affections of Our Soul for the Public Good of Our Kingdom, We must confess that We want Skill to manifest them.

"To conclude (though We think Our Answer already full to that Point concerning Our Return to London), We are willing to declare, That We look upon it as a Matter of so great Weight, as with Reference to the Affairs of this Kingdom and to Our own Inclinations and Desires, that all We can say or do can raise a mutual Confidence (the only Way, with God's Blessing, to make us all happy); and, by your Encouragement, the Laws of the Land, and the Government of the City of London, may recover some Life, for Our Security; We will overtake your Desires, and be as soon with you as you can (fn. †) wish; and, in the mean Time, We will be sure that neither the Business of Ireland, or any other Advantage for this Kingdom, shall suffer, through Our Default, or by Our Absence; We being so far from repenting the Acts of Our Justice and Grace which We have al ready performed to Our People, that We shall with the same Alacrity be still ready to add such new ones as may best advance the Peace, Honour, and Prosperity of this Nation."

The Second Letter was read, as followeth; videlicet,

"To Our Right Trusty and Well-beloved Counsellor, Edward Lord Littleton, Lord Keeper of Our Great Seal of England.

"CHARLES R.

The King's Answer, about passing the Bill for clearing Lord Kymbolton and others.

"Right Trusty and Well-beloved Counsellor, We Greet you well. We have signed a Commission, for giving Our Royal Assent for passing the Bill for raising Four Hundred Thousand Pounds, for the necessary Defence of Our Kingdom of Ireland. As for the other Bill sent unto Us, intituled, An Act for the clearing and vindicating of the Lord Kymbolton, Mr. Holles, and the rest; albeit We are well pleased to pass an Act for the clearing of them all, according to Our Gracious Promise, yet We are not, by that Promise, nor otherwise, obliged to lay any Imputation on Ourself, or to clear them in Words that may reflect upon Our Honour: Wherefore Our Command is, That you make known to Our Parliament, that, if they shall pass a Bill for the freeing and clearing of the Lord Kymbolton and the rest, in such Terms and Words as may be strong for them, and not reflect upon Us, We will readily give Our Royal Assent thereunto.

"Given at Our Court at Yorke, the 21st of March, in the Seventeenth Year of Our Reign."

Whether this Answer is not a Breach of Privilege.

Ordered, That this House will take into Consideration whether this Answer be not a Breach of the Privilege.

Ordered, That the King's Answer to the Declaration of both Houses, and the Letter concerning the Lord Kymbolton and others, and the Letter concerning the Earl of Warwicke, shall be communicated to the House of Commons, at a Conference.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Rich and Mr. Page:

Message to the H. C. for a Conference, about these Letters of the King.

To desire a present Free Conference, in the Painted Chamber, touching a Letter from the King, concerning the Earl of Warwicke, and an Answer of the King to the Declaration of both Houses, delivered to Him at Newmarket, and concerning a Letter touching the Bill for clearing the Lord Kymbolton, etc.

Message from the H. C. with a Bill against Innovations in the Church.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Serjeant Wylde; who was commanded, by the Knights, Citizens, and Burgesses of the House of Commons, to bring up to their Lordships a Bill, which hath passed their House, intituled, "An Act for the suppressing of divers Innovations in Churches and Chapels, in and about the Worship of God; and for the due observing of the Lord's-day, and the better Advancement of the Preaching of God's Holy Word, in all Parts of this Kingdom." The House of Commons desires their Lordships to pass this Bill, and to give it all the Expedition as conveniently may be.

Ordered, That this Bill shall be read the First Time To-morrow.

Sir Robert Mansell against Bagg and Bristow.

Whereas a Petition of Sir Robert Mansell, Knight, was this Day read, and an Order of this House, dated the 13th of May 1641, reciting, "That the said Sir Robert Mansell had a Grant from His Majesty, by Lease, for the sole making of Glass in England, which was by the said Order declared not to be impeached, but to remain, and be in Force, until the Parliament should declare the contrary; yet one Francis Bristowe and Jeremy Bagg have continued making of Glass, contrary to the said Order, and in Contempt of this Court, although they have been served with the same, and required Obedience thereunto; and the said Francis Bristow said, he cared not for the said Order, and that he would not obey the same:" It is therefore Ordered, That the said Bristow and Bagg shall be sent for as Delinquents; to appear before the Lords in Parliament, to answer their high Contempt of the said Order of this House.

Lenthall and Brewton in Error.

This Day a Writ of Error was brought in, by the Lord Chief Justice of the King's Bench, wherein Sir John Lenthall, Knight, was Plaintiff, and Brewton, Defendant.

Ordered, That Sir John Lenthall shall assign Errors within a Week.

Babb and Trelaway in Error.

Ordered, That Errors shall be assigned within a Week, in the Writ of Error between Babb and Trelawny.

Ordered, That the Report, which the Lords should have made this Morning, shall be made To-morrow.

Ld. Loftus's Cause.

Ordered, That the Lord Viscount Loftus's Cause shall be heard on Monday next.

Ordered, That the Lord Keeper shall be added to the Committee, which is appointed to draw up the Form of Lords Lieutenants, and the Deputations to be given to Deputy Lieutenants.

Answer from the H. C. about the Conference touching the King's Letters.

The Messengers return with this Answer from the House of Commons:

That they will give a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber, as is desired.

Then this House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Veneris, videlicet, 25m diem instantis Martii, 1642, hora 9a Aurora, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Footnotes

* Bis in Originali.
* Deest in Originali.
* Origin. resolved.
Origin. with.