Saturday, May 2, 1657.
I moved for the engrossed Bill for Captain Blackwell to be
read, which was done accordingly, without further debate.
A Bill for establishing of several lands in the counties of
Dublin and Kildare, in Ireland, upon John Blackwell the
younger, Esquire, and his heirs, and for confirmation of the
letters patent to him made, was this day read the third time;
and, upon the question, passed.
Ordered, that the Lord Protector's consent shall be desired
to this Bill. (fn. 1)
Mr. Barton moved to be first read
"A Bill for settling of Worcester House, in the Strand, in
the county of Middlesex, upon Margaret, Countess of Worcester, during the life of Edward, Earl of Worcester, and
some discoveries in lieu of the arrears of her fifths." (fn. 2)
After the engrossed Bill had been read, this was read accordingly.
Colonel Grosvenor moved for the second reading of Lady
Mr. Burton. I move for the commitment of it, for it wants
a title, and it is fit you should give a name to your own gift.
Also, it relates to the Act for sale of Estates for Treasons;
and to several orders and ordinances about fifth parts.
Mr. Bacon seconded that motion, to commit it, and did
highly plead for Lady Worcester, in point of charity.
Colonel Cooper, Mr. Bond, and Sir John Thorowgood,
moved that the Records and Committees sitting there, (fn. 3)
might be continued.
Lord Strickland spoke very favourably on Lady Worcester's behalf.
The Bill was committed to Mr. Burton and others, to meet
on Tuesday next, at two of the clock in the afternoon, in the
Inner Court of Wards.
Major Morgan reported from the Committee to whom the
business of John Blont, Esquire, and others, against Mr.
Levingston and others, was referred, that the Petition of the
said Mr. Blont and others, being to reverse certain fines,
upon the suggestion of force and fraud; and fines being the
common assurance of the nation, upon which all men's estates
depend, cannot be reversed otherwise than in Parliament;
and having depended in former Parliaments, to the great
charge of both parties, the Committee are of opinion, that for
those reasons, and that the thing may receive an end, sitting
this Parliament, that this cause be heard at the bar of the
House, with what convenient speed may be; and that both
parties be required to attend accordingly. (fn. 4)
Major Morgan moved for a trial at the Bar in Levingston's
Mr. Bacon moved to adjourn till Tuesday, and not slack
your former vote, but see the great business over before you
do any thing else; and then that business, and Mrs. Bastwick's (which Colonel Gorges moved), will come time enough.
Lord Strickland. I move to go on, for our idleness will
not further the great business moved a month hence to be
The Master of the Rolls. It is a dangerous precedent to
admit of an appeal in this case. You will never be quiet
for men's clamours. Any man will pretend that the fine was
unduly obtained, and better a mischief than an inconvenience,
and it will shake all men's inheritance.
Sir Richard Onslow spoke twice, for a day to be appointed
this day month. If there be force and fraud in the case it
was only fit for Parliament to relieve the parties. Those two
are the only enemies to men's rights.
Colonel Cox. I am well acquainted with this business,
and move that it might be relieved against the fine, that this
day month might be appointed for it.
Colonel Grosvenor moved that it might be heard at the
bar, the House being best able to judge of the validity of the
fine. Very few lawyers were at that Committee.
Mr. Speaker. I was of counsel in this case, where, for
two hours together, I argued, and it was fully argued at the
Common Pleas bar. It cannot be heard till this day month,
because Lord Craven's business must be heard before it.
Major Morgan moved for a shorter day, for a fortnight.
The Master of the Rolls moved that the witnesses that are
dead or sick, may have their depositions in Courts of Records
allowed as evidence.
Sir Richard Onslow. I move that it may be this day fortnight. I doubt the House may not sit a month, because of
Colonel Shapcott. As to the matter-of-fact, I doubt there
are great delays on both sides. I attended at the Committee,
last Parliament, and found nothing but delay in it. Counsel
spoke two or three hours together, the same things over and
Mr. Fowell moved, that Tuesday three weeks might be appointed.
Mr. Speaker. By the orders of the House, I must put the
greatest time first, unless you agree.
Colonel Grosvenor moved, that Tuesday three weeks might
be the time, and save the question for the furthest time.
Mr. Hoskins. It is but just and reasonable that the depositions should be heard, where the witnesses are dead. They
cannot be kept alive, and it is hard that survivorship of witnesses should carry on a cause. Yet I would have those depositions allowed, saving to the parties their just exceptions.
Some of them are printed.
The Master of the Rolls. You are going to hear a cause
judicially, which, in the consequence, is of the greatest concernment that can be to the House. So I hope you consider
what you are going to do. You must go according to the
rules of justice. You cannot hear affidavits, but only depositions.
Mr. Speaker. I did argue it in the Common Pleas, that
affidavits should not be allowed, but only depositions; yet
they were allowed of there, as being very proper; for they
were judges most properly of the fine. As a Serjeant at Law,
I am bound to vindicate the Common Pleas.
Resolved, that this cause, upon the petition of John Blont,
the Lady Stirling, and others, against Mr. Levingston and
others, shall be heard at the bar, on Tuesday three weeks.
Resolved, that either party at this hearing, shall have use
of the depositions taken in Chancery, in the cause, of such
witnesses as are dead, or cannot be here, against whom no just
exception shall be taken. (fn. 5)
Sir Richard Onslow moved for warrants to be given by the
Speaker for summoning witnesses.
Resolved, that Mr. Speaker have power to give warrants
under his hand, for such witnesses as either side shall desire to
attend on that day. (fn. 6)
The Master of the Rolls reported from the Committee
appointed to attend his Highness, that they did attend his
Highness yesterday, and presented and read unto him the
Resolves and the Order of the House, which his Highness
took some time to consider of, and answered that he would
give a speedy and a positive answer, and that he would acquaint the Committee with it. (fn. 7)
He, therefore, moved to adjourn till Tuesday, and to let no
other business interpose till this great business is over. He
stood up two several times, and spoke to this purpose with
Sir John Reynolds. We have more reason to expect an
answer now than ever, because his Highness has promised it.
I therefore move that you would adjourn till Tuesday, and
let no business interfere with the great affair.
Mr. Bond and others seconded him; so it was
Resolved, that the business of the Lord Craven be heard at
the bar on Tuesday fortnight.
That the Bill for Mrs. Bastwick be read on Wednesday
That the House be adjourned till Tuesday morning next.
The House adjourned itself accordingly. (fn. 8)