The Diary of Thomas Burton
15 June 1657

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History of Parliament Trust

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John Towill Rutt (editor)

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1828

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'The Diary of Thomas Burton: 15 June 1657', Diary of Thomas Burton esq, volume 2: April 1657 - February 1658 (1828), pp. 248-254. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=36856 Date accessed: 22 October 2014.


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Monday, June 15,1657.

Mr. Cary reported, from the Committee appointed to methodize the Petition and Advice, an Act for Confirmation of several Acts and Ordinances, (fn. 1) which was read the first time.

Colonel Shapcott. I move that it be read the second time to-morrow morning; in regard it must be done before you rise.

Ordered.

Mr. Secretary. I move that the explanatory Petition and Advice be now proceeded upon; in regard that must also be dispatched before you rise.

The same was read the second time accordingly.

Dr. Clarges. Therein is nothing but what you have already agreed upon in full debate; I therefore move for sparing your time, that it may be ingrossed.

Colonel Shapcott and Sir Christopher Pack seconded that motion.

Major Morgan and Alderman Tigh moved, that Ulster and Munster might be added, (fn. 2) for it is very narrow not to let it extend to the protestants elsewhere, as those in Munster.

Colonel Jones. Those protestants in Munster least deserve your favour of anybody, for they were enemies; and why should it light upon others more than upon those that have served you ?

Colonel Sankey. You have as much reason to take in Connaught as Munster, who have deserted from you most of any.

Colonel Chadwick. I stand up to move you, that your favour may not be narrower to the other counties than to Munster, which, it seems, has least served you.

Colonel Trayle moved for Ulster to be added.

Mr. Secretary. This was done upon good consideration at the Committee. It was thought too general to take all protestants in; but you may use it as you please.

Colonel Cooper and Major Morgan moved, either to exclude or to comprehend all, and leave them for the greatest of signal testimonies. (fn. 3) If you exclude Leinster, you do exclude your real and best friends, that were only passive under Lord Ormond, (fn. 4) in the time of Cess, (fn. 5) and it does exclude Dublin and all those that have served you.

Major-General Whalley. Those that came in, in 1649, there are no thanks due to them for they could not help it. If you please, exclude all but such as have given signal testimonies, &c.

Colonel Sankey. Unless you make some explanation, what shall be meant by signal testimonies, you may still exclude your best friends.

Mr. Lloyd. Leave out the whole clause and provide for this in the Bill for settling the distribution of members.

Resolved, that this clause be re-committed, and the Committee appointed and ordered to withdraw. (fn. 6)

Major-General Goffe. I move that the clause for Scotland be re-committed, for it is short by saying, " invading Scotland," unless you say aided, assisted, or abetted.

Colonel Shapcott. This was moved at the Committee, and it was found, that if it were so general, it would exclude all Scotland.

Colonel Cooper. Unless you make your clause more general, you will not exclude ten persons. There were many godly men in arms against that invasion. Most of those that were actually in the invasion are either dead, killed, banished, or imprisoned.

Colonel Sydenham. You have been truly told that the worst enemies you have in Scotland will be brought into places of trust. You take the lands of those that now keep them out of trust, and let all in. You hinder the work of reformation; if, for any person's sake, you should let in a general evil. If you admit both these nations, what shall become of England ?

Mr. Fowell. This was all said at the Committee, and it appeared that all will be excluded that now serve you in Parliament.

Major-General Disbrowe. If that clause be put in, it will exclude all that are fit to serve you, unless it be some ministers. I can evidence it to you. I would leave it to any man, whether, in a strict consideration, all persons have not aided or assisted by horse, arms, or monies. You are misinformed that there were any protestations in that Parliament. Indeed there was one gentleman that sits by me, (Sir John Wemyss or Colonel Lockyer) that did dissent, and divers others, but none protested. I would have you, to save long stories, add it thus: " such as have counselled, or advised, or willingly and voluntarily contributed."

Major-General Kelsey. You cannot make that too large. I had rather have twenty honest men excluded than admit all knaves.

Dr. Clarges. I move that the clause may stand as it does; for if you make it so general you will exclude all. There was no such thing as a protestation. The dissention between Argyle and Hamilton's faction was the cause of all, and it was more to support Argyle's lust and ambition than out of any godliness. The condition of Scotland is now between those of the public resolution and the remonstrators. It is not your interest to give a greater encouragement to one than to another, though both contend for the most godliness. Argyle is a crafty man.

Major-General Haines. The generality of the malignants came sooner over to you that they might oppress the rest. I doubt it will prove so upon examination. I am not for a general exclusion, but for the expedient that is offered.

Colonel Lockyer. The general clause will take in all the people. There was not a gentleman in Scotland but did contribute. The matter of fact is mistaken. Every person that did not contribute was liable for the old troops to take all he had. Before 1648, Scotland was independent of any. For my part, I speak more freely because I am not concerned. This will exclude many godly men from public trust, and it will disaffect and disturb the Government; whereas they are in a way of compliance. It will not be for your service if you exclude all that sat in that Parliament, or in the council of war, or the like.

Colonel Stewart. You ought to sweeten that nation as much as you can, so you do not admit your enemies. You have admitted them to union, and to sit in Parliament; and if you give a privilege with one hand, and take it away with another, it will discourage that people. Though we may now take the liberty to call it a faction upon the dissention between the parties, yet all were concluded by the vote of Parliament.

Sir John Mac Dowell. To put a character upon one part of that nation more than another will not be for your service. If you please, exclude all that treated with Charles Stewart, to bring him over, or to assist him at Worcester. I would have it re-committed, to pen it more restrictively.

Sir Christopher Pack. I move not to give a greater privilege to Scotland than you do to yourselves; viz. aiding, assisting, or abetting. A greater latitude, as it may trouble Scotland, so it may trouble England.

Judge Smith. I move for some restriction and limitation, and that the words, Signal Testimonies, may, in some measure, have your sense; otherwise, I doubt it will return as it came in.

This clause was also committed to the same Committee.

Mr. Secretary moved the Bill for setting a fine upon unqualified officers and members of Parliament, till the other report was ready. The same was read accordingly the second time.

Mr. Alderman Foot moved, that the Bill for adventures for lands in Ireland might be read.

Mr. Godfrey moved, that a clause might be added to this explanatory Petition and Advice, touching the time of continuation of future Parliaments, and that triennial Parliaments might continue six months, and intermediate Parliaments three months.

Sir Christopher Pack and Sir Thomas Wroth seconded that motion, and moved that the first triennial Parliament might be called three years next after the dissolution of this Parliament.

Mr. Fowell and The Master of the Rolls. It is not advisable at this time to enter upon such a debate.

1. It is not properly before you, being no part of his Highness's exceptions.

2. It is not good now to break in upon the Petition and Advice, further than to explain the votes.

3. There are matters of as great consequence as that, left unprovided for, and that upon which all the war arose. All may be considered in season.

4. Wise men thought that long Parliaments might be as prejudicial to the people as short Parliaments.

5. By the Petition and Advice his Highness has consented to govern, and to call Parliaments according to the laws.

6. By the laws Parliaments ought to be called twice a year. No repeal known of that law.

7. The triennial Bill provides for fifty days for every Parliament, and many wise men then thought that it was time long enough.

8. It should not be in the Chief Magistrate's power to continue Parliaments so long as he pleases.

Upon these and other considerations the debate fell, and Mr. Speaker had no mind to it.

Colonel Clarke reported the clause, touching excluding the members for Ireland, which was re-committed; and upon the question, resolved to agree with the Committee.

Colonel Sydenham reported the clause concerning the members for Scotland. (fn. 7)

Lord Lambert offered an addition in the same clause to exclude all such also from public trust.

The House was sick of the addition, and arguments urged, for fear of breaking in upon the whole petition. Some would thus have shaken it off.

Lord Lambert defended it four or five times by standing up, and, upon the dividing the House, carried 50 to 42. See the Journal inde. (fn. 8)

The whole so amended was ordered to be ingrossed.

Mr. Secretary. I move two things, which will much further the service of the House in this strait of time.

1. That you exclude all private business for this week.

2. To sit forenoon and afternoon.

This was ordered accordingly, (fn. 9) only several private businesses upon several motions, as Sir William Dick's, (fn. 10) and the like, were ordered also to dispatch.

The House rose at half an hour past one, and adjourned till three, upon the Bill of Assessments.

Post Meridiem.

Major-General Whalley. I move that the Committee for the Bill of Indemnity be renewed, that has been neglected, and is postponed sine die. I desire the Committee may be revived to meet to-morrow morning at seven.

It was resolved accordingly. (fn. 11)

Alderman Geldart and Mr. Vincent moved for a day for the Bill for the Probate of Wills, that it might be read, and a day appointed.

Colonel Jones and others. It is better to let it be without a day, lest it be put by.

Sir Richard Lucy moved, that it might be read on Friday, for that the term would end on Wednesday; and that it was fit that the judges and lawyers should be here in a matter of that nature.

It was resolved to be read on Thursday morning next. (fn. 12)

Colonel Jones. To shorten your time, I move that you pass a vote, that the Grand Committee for Assessments have power to relate to former acts, both as to committees and powers.

It was resolved accordingly.

Mr. Grove. I move that you add some commissioners for Wiltshire, and that was also resolved. (fn. 13)

Mr. Speaker left the chair, and a great debate who should take the chair; whether Mr. Bampfield, Mr. Fowell, or Mr. Nathaniel Bacon. The last was most called on. Before they could come to any resolution, Mr. Speaker was called to the chair again, and Mr. Bacon called there. Mr. Speaker left the chair; Mr. Bacon, to the chair. (fn. 14)

Colonel Jones moved, and it was resolved, to refer it to a sub-committee to shorten the Bill, as to the powers and committees.

Captain Baynes. I move that you will consider where to lay that part of the assessments which you take of Cardigan and Pembroke, and how you will provide for the charge of levying it, that it come in a clear revenue to his Highness.

Mr. Bampfield. Such a motion never was in any tax laid upon the people that the Chief Magistrate,— (fn. 15) but the same was always levied and brought in, by way of the Exchequer.

The Act was referred to a Committee to shorten the same, viz. to Mr. Burton and others to withdraw presently, and to proportion the sums.

Footnotes

1 " Made since the 20th of April, 1653." Journals.
2 To the provisions, on the Protestants of Ireland in "the humble, additional, and explanatory Petition and Advice." See Journals.
3 See supra, p. 176, note †.
4 Lord Lieutenant, appointed by Charles in 1644, " upon the cessation in Ireland." See Clarendon, ii. 456.
5 " Cesse, or Casse, (Irish law term), an exacting of provisions, at a certain rate, for the Deputy's family, and the garrison soldiers." Dict. Anglo-Brit. (1715).
6 "Presently; and to bring it in, setting the House." Journals.
7 " Touching the excluding of persons of Scotland." Journals.
8 This account of the division agrees with the printed, Journals.
9 See Journals.
10 " Ordered, that the distressed condition of Sir William Dick's children and creditors be referred to Colonel Shapcott, &c. to offer to the House some expedient for some relief to them, until the Parliament meet again." Ibid.
11 See Journals.
12 "The third time." Journals.
13 See Journals.
14 " Resolved, that Mr. Nathaniel Bacon do take the chair in the Grand Committee for the Bill of Assessments." Ibid.
15 An omission in the MS.; probably,—should receive it directly.