Tuesday, February 1, 1658–9.
Mr. Speaker took the chair at half an hour past eight.
Mr. Cooper (fn. 1) prayed.
Mr. Speaker acquainted the House with a message from the
judges of the Common Bench, touching Henry Nevile's case
against the sheriff, about an election last Parliament.
They desired me to take the record hither. I would not
do it without your directions. It is a new case, primæ impressionis.
Mr. Gewen. I would have this debated in a full House,
when the lawyers are present.
Sir Arthur Haslerigge. I love not to hear it, that there is
a lameness in this House. I know no law-book for you to
be directed by. It is not a case of such difficulty. Yourself
is now the greatest man in England. I look upon you so,
except what is to be excepted. I had almost forgot myself,
but I am pretty right yet; if I can hold myself there.
I say I look upon you as the greatest man in England; the
Speaker of the Parliament of England or Commons, what you
will call it: I would give no offence. It is not fit for you to
take a record from any inferior court: Your clerk is more
proper than yourself to send for it. Make an order for the
judge's clerk to bring it up. That is more proper and fit
than to send your clerk.
Mr. Starkey. It seems there is causa difficultatis found by
the judges in this case; and they desire your directions.
1. It concerns not any member or right of election, this
present Parliament; so is no concern to you; it being of the
last Parliament, now ended and determined.
2. It is not proper to bring the record hither. It should
rather be brought to the Lords' House. I hope it is no offence
for me to call it so here. I would not wade farther into this
business, considering that it was of the last Parliament; but
rather leave it to the judges to determine; or arrest judgment, as they please.
Mr. Knightley. The judges do hæsitare in limine. The
judgment is passed: the jurors are judges. So it is said in
the country. You are not taking it from them. I would
have the proper officer to bring it before you, and then judge
as you see cause.
Mr. Pedley. If it be a case of privilege of the House, then
you may take it upon you; but if otherwise, it is proper for
the Lords' House. The record cannot be brought out of the
Court. It should be certified. In Sir John Le. Stallen's
case, Edw. iii., they sent the clerk of the House to cause them
to certify. Alius et plures issued out. The House heard the
cause, and directed the judges to give judgment. Nobody
complains to you.
Mr. Speaker. I only ask you whether I shall receive the
Sir Walter Earle. I am against bringing the record hither.
The record was once required from the clerk of this House,
but he fell down oh his knees (fn. 2) and besought the King that
his life might rather be taken.
Mr. Manley. This is not an ordinary course of proceeding
in a writ of error, but a special case wherein your directions
are desired. I would have the record brought hither.
Mr. Steward. The rule delivered in the last Parliament
from the chair, was, that the Lord Chief Justice should deliver a transcript, by his own hand, to this House.
Mr. Reynolds. I am against your taking it; but have a
transcript brought by the Lord Chief Justice to be delivered
at the table.
Mr. Croke. The Judges have done their duty in desiring
your advice. This House has ever taken this upon them to
declare a law. You have power of examining all the records,
as in Cole and Rodney's case. (fn. 3) I move that the Chief Justice, at his bringing the record, may express the reasons of
his hesitations and difficulties.
Sir Arthur Haslerigge called this a cunning motion.
Mr. Speaker offered to put the question upon himself.
Sir Arthur Haslerigge. I would not have it upon your
books that any such question was propounded to the Speaker
of the House of Commons, or to this House of Parliament.
I will offend nobody yet.
Mr. Pedley. Sir Arthur Haslerigge offers rather an order
than a question.
Colonel Cox. I would have it wholly laid aside.
Mr. Bodurda. You put limitations upon the Lords'
House; so that they have no power on this case. I would
have it adjourned to the Lords' House.
Mr. Turner. I expected not such a motion this morning,
and would have it laid aside. When the sole legislative was
in this House, it had been proper; but now, you are upon
another footing of account.
Mr. Cartwright. I move that it be laid aside, and that
the Judges in the Exchequer Chamber first have the hearing of it.
Mr. Edgar. I know not yet what the House of Lords is.
I would have it laid aside at present.
Serjeant Seys. The Court declare, that it was usually,
without writ of error, brought into the Parliament. It being
primæ impressionis, there was a privilege in the case. They
thought it fit that the case should be brought to this House,
because of difficulty.
Mr. Chaloner. The Judges desire neither to deny nor to
delay justice to any. I hope you will do neither. So I
would have the transcript brought hither.
Serjeant Waller stood up without making three congees,
and before a member, when he was speaking. The orders
of the House called to.
Mr. Reynolds and Mr. Carew moved, that the orders be
preserved, and that he do his congees.
Mr. Knightley moved, that he had done his duty.
Mr. Steward moved, whether to put the question or not.
Mr. Scot. I wonder to see you so careless of your privileges. Though it was of last Parliament, will you delay
justice ? For whom do you sit ? Is it not for the people of
England ? If the Judge be willing to bring the case hither,
do not you obstruct it. Let the Lord Chief Justice bring
the transcript, as was moved, to you, by those that had the
honour and leave (fn. 4) to sit here in the last Parliament.
Lord Lambert. I incline rather to have it determined in
the Exchequer Chamber, as was moved, but would have you
not wholly lay it aside; but have a transcript of the record
brought hither by the Lord Chief Justice.
Mr. Bodurda moved that the question be put, whether
the question shall be put.
Captain Baynes moved for required, instead of desired.
Sir Arthur Haslerigge. It is well enough, and all one.
Mr. Turner. I move that the question be put now.
The question being put, it passed in the affirmative.
Resolved, on the main question, that the Chief Justice of
the Common Bench be desired to bring hither the transcript
of the record depending before them there in that Court, concerning Mr. Nevile and Mr. Strode, late Sheriff of the
County of Berks; and that the Clerk give notice.
Serjeant Waller. Reported from the Committee of Privileges, that the return of Henry Nevile and Daniel Blagrave
is a good return, and that the other return (fn. 5) be withdrawn.
It was called to him to go to the bar and make his legs; (fn. 6)
for no report could be handed.
Mr. Hungerford. Moved that he might report in order.
Sir Arthur Haslerigge. The House is possessed of this
report, though out of order.
Mr. Knightley. Something is left to the discretion of the
Mr. Hungerford. I could not know what would be reported, till he did report.
Mr. Bodurda, the like.
Sir Arthur Haslerigge. This was but contention. If we
can have patience, all the reports may come in. I move that
he come up with his three legs.
This he did accordingly, and delivered the report on the
left side of the table.
Mr. Pedley. I move to know the reasons of the resolution
of the Committee, for satisfaction of those that were not
Mr. Knightley. December is before January. (fn. 7) That is
Sir Arthur Haslerigge. If I had not been at the Committee, I would also have moved to be satisfied of the reasons,
ere I gave my vote.
He reported the whole reasons upon the debate. In the
second election, there was no Mayor, no precept annexed, no
votes. Force was used to turn out the Mayor, but he continued in his place still. There was but one negative in the
Committee, and a full Committee in this business.
Resolved, to agree with the Committee. Nemine contradicente.
Serjeant Waller. The reason why I did report this first,
was, because it brought in a member, which the other did
Captain Baynes moved to have the pretended Mayor
taken up to be punished; else the consequence may be dangerous.
Mr. Knightley. They tossed the old Mayor like a dog in
a blanket. I would have it referred to the Committee to find
out some way to punish that Mayor and other Mayors. If
this be allowed, your House will be thin enough and certainly break up Parliaments. They promise themselves
Mr. Nicholl and Mr. Turner moved, that the Mayor be
punished. The remedy at law is for the Mayor, but there
is no remedy for you at law.
Sir Arthur Haslerigge. I agree to it; though I thought
not to have troubled you. The chest was broken open and
one of the seals taken out, and a great many outrages. I
would have this Mayor sent for as a delinquent. Members
on such accounts, have been kept out seven years. This
Mayor has relinquished his place of Mayor, and sits now as
an Alderman. I would have him sent for.
Mr. Grove. There is no contempt in the Mayor to you.
Only the difference arises about the right of election of a
Mayor. I would have you proceed no farther.
Mr. Bulkeley. I am sorry that your time should be spent
about such matters. The Mayor was no wilful transgressor.
He was clearly chosen fourteen days before the precept. I
would not have him come under such a lash. He was voted
Mayor and sworn. They claim that they may turn him out
when they please, upon any misdemeanour. They contemn
him so that be comes not so often to the bench. The election by him might be clear. The Mayor is an honest good
Mr. Goodwin. I would not have him sent for as a delinquent, but have it referred to a Committee; this and all business of this nature, to make some precedent in this case.
Mr. Bodurda. I would have you lay this aside, lest upon
farther examination, you find it fit to undo what you have
done, which will not be for your honour.
Serjeant Waller reported, that a double return is in
Oxfordshire, between Lord Falkland (fn. 8) and Sir Francis
Norris, and that the Sheriff being returned a member, (fn. 9) your
Committee desires that the Sheriff may be required to attend
The House proceeded on the report touching Lord Falkland; and it was moved that the Sheriff, viz. Unton Croke,
might attend the Committee; but Sir Arthur Haslerigge excepted against the word attend the Committee. The report
is mistaken, it should have been the House.
Henry Nevile came into the House at ten o'clock.
Mr. Croke. (fn. 10) The Sheriff last week was ill of a fever; I
hear he is somewhat better. I had a letter. He will be here
next week. It proved to be a doubtful case; no malice nor
design in it. The best counsel were at a stand in it. He
will have his deputy and all witnesses in it ready by Thursday.
If it please God to give him strength, he will attend you.
Send it back to your Committee. I desire all the favour
and tenderness that may be.
Mr. Knightley. I move, for favour, and not to have it
postponed; but refer it back to your Committee, and appoint
Lord Lambert. I move not to have it so—when he has
strength; but put it on, three weeks, if he have strength.
Mr. Hungerford moved for a shorter day.
Sir Arthur Haslerigge. It seems Lord Falkland is a de
linquent. (fn. 11) Give the devil his due. Admit him, and then
cast him out tacitly.
Sir John Lenthall. You cannot order the Sheriff to be
well. I move that the under Sheriff attend in the interim.
Sir Arthur Haslerigge. The under Sheriff cannot be answerable for all. How will you have information, if the
High Sheriff be. sick ? You cannot judicially send for the
under Sheriff. I would have you declare; if the High Sheriff
cannot, then the Under Sheriff shall attend.
Serjeant Maynard. A. double return is undoubtedly a
misdemeanour in the Sheriff. Give the Sheriff a day, that
if he be well, he may attend; otherwise, dispense with it.
Your Committee may proceed without either Sheriff or
Mayors; for there they appear but as witnesses.
Resolved, that Unton Croke, Esq. Sheriff of the County
of Oxford, be enjoined to attend the Committee of Privileges
and Elections, on or before Saturday next. And if, by reason of his sickness, he be not able to attend the Committee
by or before that time, that his Under-Sheriff do then or in
the meantime attend the said Committee, to give an account to the said Committee, concerning the said double return.
Mr. Secretary. You have spent some time about the
forms of your House. It is now time to mind other things.
It pleased God to put an end to his Highness's days.
Sad things were expected by that stroke. God has given that
blessing of a son, in his stead, who has the hearts of the
people, testifying his undoubted right of succession. This
can be looked upon as no other thing than the hand of God,
so putting down the late King's family. He raises the
power out of the dust. It is his prerogative royal.
It is not unbecoming this House to recognize this mercy;
to acknowledge his now Highness to be the undoubted successor. In Queen Elizabeth and King James's reign, there
were such recognitions.
Another thing; I hear great endeavours abroad to beget
divisions and troubles amongst us; some contriving abroad
to make addresses to this House to change the Government.
To prevent which, let the nation know we are all of a mind
in the Government; all agreed in the foundation: that those
that offer to pull out any pin of this building, may see their
discouragement, that they have their question with the Chief
Magistrate and this Parliament.
I have a short Bill for a recognition to this purpose.
This he brought to the table. (fn. 12)
Sir Arthur Haslerigge. I am sorry I have a cold, so that
all cannot hear me.
This is not seasonably offered now. The more I hear of
dangers and fears abroad, the more have we need to take
care at home, within these walls. We need not fear, any thing
that the people shall here represent for their good. Any
thing brought to us, if bad, punish them that bring it. You
have many things to do, and have done but one thing. The
next is a Committee of Grievances; the next, Religion.
Wonderful things were taken away by that victorious Parliament. Addresses to the King were nine times refused;
then they took the King away. We were a glorious Parliament
for pulling down. I hope this will be glorious for setting up.
I hope all will agree, that whatever we pulled down, was
good and necessary to be pulled down. We turned out nocent and innocent, as unnecessary, unprofitable, and unfit.
These are great works to do. My head begins to be a little
hot. Let us see what was done since we went out. He that
is gone promised us an account. The army are our children;
they came from us. We are bound to provide for them.
We have one that is our prince, princeps, our chief. I never
knew any guile or gall in him. I honour the person. I will
say no more.
Let us not read a Bill of this consideration till after the
fast; that we may not be put out of our right way, a Committee of Grievances. We never pulled down, but by prayer
and humiliation; let us not build without them. Let us see
our materials. Have we glorious foundations in our buildings ? Let us name our Committee of Grievances, first. (fn. 13)
Mr. Trevor. I would not have a delay put upon such a
Bill. The first weapon is a delay. The honourable person
has better reason to know your danger. It ought not to go
from you till it is read. Read it now, and appoint the second reading after the fast.
Mr. Drake. There was a general fast before. We have
an inclination. God has observed the intercession of his servants. If there must be any thing brought into the House
to know us, where we are, if any thing, this foundation. A
Committee of Grievances should have done first! Not so ingenious.
It is a greater honour to be good at building up, than at
pulling down, as he said of the Long Parliament.
We have Parliamentary grounds, precedents, and reasons.
We are sworn to it, we but say what we have sworn before.
Mr. St. Nicholas. You are upon a point of government,
upon that which is grounded upon a late act, the power of
nomination. There are many things previous to this matter.
I can read the Act, how that has been observed. It may
concern him that is at the head. First, seek God.
Mr. Scot. You anticipate, if you now fall upon this Bill.
I suppose you will not fish before the net. It is irregular to
resolve first, and then inquire. I am not prepared to speak,
as those that haply know of it. I was so tender yesterday as
to put off the Scots' members debate. I should not have been
free to have gone that length, had I thought of this. I profess
myself to be a weathercock of reason. I would have them
confirmed by Act of Union. There is much matter about
the distribution, order, and manner of their coming in to be
First, model your legislatures; one hundred kept out the
last Parliament for want of integrity to the Instrument of
Government, whereof they became guilty themselves in the
Petition and Advice carried but by three suffrages. I would
have that settled first. (fn. 14)
Colonel Birch. I was one of those that was not acquainted with the Bill now offered. I waited for reasons against it.
I went home, rejoicing that the members of Scotland and
Ireland were received hither so unanimously. I take it for
granted they are admitted into oneness with us. I look upon
it as a return of the nations. I can by no means admit us to
a breach. (fn. 15) If it should be heard abroad that though but for
a day this Bill was laid aside! I would not have it laid aside
for an hour. I am readier to pour out tears than words.
Mr. Weaver. Mr. Scot moved not against the union.
There is no foundation of law for the distribution of the
members. I hope we shall all in due time agree to this Bill.
Suspend it two or three days till the fast be over; but first
consider to corroborate those gentlemen that have not yet a
legal authority; to prevent laying it in your dish hereafter
that threescore are not authorized.
Mr. Solicitor-General. I expected no debate in this business. Is this any more than we are sworn to at the doors ?
From Henry IV. and all downwards there was ever a recognition at the entrance of all Parliaments.
Mr. Salway. I move the question, whether this question
shall be put.
Mr. Knightley. This Bill comes in by surprise. I am
sorry it did come in; but, seeing that it is so, I would not
have a question put upon it.
A Bill was brought down from the Lords' House about
the Queen's jointure. There was no negative upon it, but it
was read twice that day.
I had not been here if I had not thought his Highness to
be Chief Magistrate. I am sorry to hear such pulling down
The Bill was read accordingly.
Mr. Attorney-General. I move to have it read a second
time to-morrow. (fn. 16)
Mr. Kinghtley. I am for Monday se'nnight, at the calling
of the House. I would not have the business cool, but that
we may gather heat for it.
Mr. Chaloner. I find, by no law, that the members of
Scotland and Ireland should sit here. I have no disaffection
to them. The gentlemen have done you no wrong in tendering their service here. If they have not power let us give
The fault is in your Commissioners of the Seal. Let them
be punished. I would have Monday se'nnight for the second
Mr. Attorney of the Duchy. I would have no coldness—
no hesitation in this business. I would have it read a second
Sir Arthur Haslerigge. That gentleman may well move
for the second reading. He may know it. I do not. It is
a matter of great weight. I would have a convenient time,
that we may serve posterity in this generation.
It is fit every one should have a copy of it, (I have known
it denied,) if you will bring in a Bill of this nature before a
Committee of Religion be brought in, or grievances.
I understand the grounds formerly gone upon. There
never was such a number of gentlemen so freely chosen. I
move that Monday se'nnight be appointed for the second
time, and that we have copies.
Mr. — (a young man) stood up, and told a story of
Cain and Abel, and made a speech; nobody knew to what
Mr. Steward. We are doing no more all of us now than
we have every one of us done. I cannot blame those that
desire time; for they that must have argument had need
have time to seek it.
Sir Arthur Haslerigge. It is a. reflection; for he knows
not whether I seek arguments for or against it.
Sir William Wheeler. I move to read it the second time
to-morrow. This has been in all times since Henry I.
Copies ought to be given. It was done in the Long Parliament; yet the Clerk cannot without your order.
Captain Baynes. 1 am not against the Bill, if nothing else
be in the belly of it.
It determines the negative voice and the other House. To
set up a House that has not so much interest as two knights!
You have disputed this with blood and treasure, and leave it
now, you will never come to it again. You will either bring
the Government to your property, or your property to the
Government. I had rather give a third part of what I have
than leave things so dubious. The balance will be too great
for the people; and if the army turn mercenary, farewell
Mr. Bodurda. That gentleman moved improperly to speak
to any particulars of a Bill at the first reading. I desire
to-morrow may be the second reading, rather than Monday
se'nnight, because, as a worthy person, Sir Arthur Haslerigge,
said, Monday is before Monday se'nnight.
Mr. Trevor. I wish Captain Baynes's motion could take
effect, that we stand in no need of an army. I hope he
has always been so careful of the charge of the nation as he
seems to be now.
Mr. Starkey. I would have no delay. We reflect upon
ourselves; on the oath we have taken at the doors.
Mr. Manley. The last Bill of Recognition was read the
second time, the same day. I would have no delay; and,
because I see such an unanimous consent, I have a Bill in my
pocket for enabling the Scotch and Irish members.
Sir Arthur Haslerigge stood up to speak to the order of
proceeding, and launched into the merits.
Serjeant Maynard took him down.
Mr. Turner moved for a middle day.
Mr. Reynell. If there were but a bare recognition like
that at the door, I should not say a word. The honourable
person that presented the Bill, said he would have things so
settled, that he that touched a pin of the building might
have a sense of the displeasure of this House and the Protector. (fn. 17) Therefore time is needful. I move for Monday
Lord Lambert. I like the thing, but not the haste. I
would have something go hand in hand with it, touching
your own privileges and the people's rights. A business of
this nature may well be referred to a Grand Committee. I
thought you would have appointed your Grand Committees,
first those of trade, religion, and grievances. It is seasonably
offered, but it is not for your service to be tod hasty. I desire that we may all study moderation.
It was ordered to be read on Monday next, (fn. 18) without a
question. The House rose at one.
The Committee of Privileges sat in the Star-Chamber, and
some members being crowded, it was moved and resolved, to
adjourn to the House. Mr. Serjeant Waller had the chair.
The business of double returns between Luke Robinson and
Colonel Lilburn, against Mr. Philip Howard and Mr. Marwood, was debated, and the Committee inclined for the latter.
This day fortnight was appointed for a full hearing.