Friday, March 11, 1658–9.
Mr. Speaker took the chair at nine.
Prayers by Mr. Cooper.
Ordered, that Cole and Rodney's case (fn. 1) be heard this day
It was moved that Colonel Overton (fn. 2) being come to town,
he might be called to the bar.
Sir Henry Vane. He is brought so weak with four years
imprisonment, that he can scarce go over the floor. If you
please, he may be called in on Monday. He is now a prisoner at your doors, by your commands.
Mr. Bodurda. You were in fetters yourself. First deliver
yourself from that, and then let the other business be the
Mr. Swinfen. You are but in a parenthesis, in the midst
of a debate.
Serjeant Maynard. You ought not, without leave, to
speak against the orders of the House; for nought was to intervene.
The order of the day was read.
Mr. Bodurda. I have something to offer which may seem
to put you by your debate. If there be a question concerning
three hundred that sit here, if there be withdrawing in the
case of Major-general Packer, there is a member whose election was in question yesterday. His case is, that he was
chosen a burgess, and was neither resident nor freeman.
Counsel agreed the law to be so.
If that member must sit, whose election was questioned,
then I believe above a hundred who sit upon the same foot
must go out.
A learned counsel, Mr. Finch, (fn. 3) counsel for the member
sitting, did press to be heard in this case, and would make it
I only press this to prevent withdrawing in the case. This
is a personal incapacity. The other is national. This is
something which does not depend upon former precedents.
Colonel Morley. This is a report for the Committee of
Sir Henry Vane. This is no new precedent. It has been
often adjudged in Parliament. I like not scrutinizing votes.
I never knew it thrive. That is not ingenuous. I would
have the truth known.
I have known, in former Parliaments, such telling of noses,
that one has set down persons names before the vote passed.
This is but upon a private counsel's opinion, Mr. Finch,
a person to be honoured. (fn. 4) I expected some great matter.
This is no new case.
I beseech you, let us come plainly to the business. It is
of greater weight, the more you consider it.
Sir Walter Earle. I can justify what Mr. Bodurda has
moved. Something is in it.
Colonel Birch. I move that the matter of debate be,
whether the Scotch members shall continue to sit in this
House; that you may have some certain foot to debate upon.
Mr. Godfrey seconded.
Mr. Knightley. I move that the clerk of the Commonwealth attend with the indentures and returns; to see by
what writ they sit.
Colonel Morley. I have observed that all questions in
former Parliaments have arose out of debate. Now, debate
must arise out of questions. You ought to collect the sense.
I wish I could hear arguments of legality and prudence.
Serjeant Maynard. I think every man that speaks in this
House will not take it upon his oath that all he speaks in this
House is law. The question offered is very proper and
agreeable to the debate. If I be not satisfied in the right of
it, I shall not give my vote for it.
Sir Henry Vane. You must be enlightened by the debate,
before any question can arise; I would have the Petition and
Advice considered. I have cast my eye upon it. I speak to
the defect about the distribution.
I believe, before the calling this Parliament, it did not
take them up a little time to consider how to call it; and
there was, I believe, much difference in judgment.
They saw plainly that by breaking up the last Parliament
there was a defect. If any distribution had been agreed on
for Scotland, surely it would have been for England. The
lawyers and judges durst not advise to choose according to
any distribution since 42. If the Scotch and Irish be called
by the late distribution, why not so for England?
They had a sure foundation to retire to, the law of the
land, the old distribution. Then you will say, why did they
not call another House? They could not call any but old
Peers, and there was a bar before that which they durst not
bite on, an act of Parliament. They set up another House de
bene esse, and these members for Scotland and Ireland
likewise, to see if you would swallow. They both sit on one
They know their own imperfections: else you had heard
from them before this. With England they durst not
meddle upon another foot than the old law, (fn. 5) and you now
sit upon that clear foot of law; and it is a great providence
that you are now come together to debate these grounds.
I would have the Petition and Advice, and writs, and
returns, before you.
Serjeant Maynard. That gentleman spoke to the order of
proceedings, and then spoke to the whole matter. Be a person never so great, he ought not to wander so in the debate.
Mr. Grove. Any member may offer a question. It hasbeen now two days debated. The question offered you, is
very suitable to the debate.
Lord Lambert. This question was never yet in debate
before you. Let us go to the open matter, and understand
the whole business.
Sir Walter Earle. I would clear what arises out of the
Petition and Advice. His Highness is to rule according to
the Petition and Advice in all things, (fn. 6) and in other things
according to law. I would have it considered if this distribution be according to law.
Captain Baynes. Yesterday there was a general debate
both of Scotch and Irish. You have now tied yourselves
to debate upon Scotland only. None has spoken against the
justness and reasonableness of their sitting in an English
Parliament. The Act of Union agrees, that they shall have
thirty members. I shall not now speak to Ireland. The
It is said, members have anciently been called from Scotland to sit here. It is offered you, that they can make
their right out by law. If so, haply you will not think
it fit that they should withdraw.
It may be both the ordinance for the union and the
distribution are confirmed by Parliament. I suppose his
Highness and his privy and learned council did advise about
calling this Parliament. They had recourse to the laws of
the land, for England.
I would not have us make a flaw in our whole foundation.
We sit upon one foot, and they on another. I should be
glad they could make it out by law, that they sit here
rightfully; that they might not withdraw.
The question will not be, whether they shall sit here or no,
but whether they shall sit, till they be brought in upon a
legal foot of account. They had their votes in the Petition
and Advice, which voted them out of this, so no great injury
to them when by their own consent. I would have the
record of the Petition and Advice before you, not a printed
copy. Something may be put in as well as the article that is
They plead the Act of Union, and that they ought thereby
to have thirty members. If so, inquire whether they sit
upon a legal foot. If that be not made out when you have
heard them, they may then withdraw.
Mr. Hobart. I judge not upon particulars. First, hear
all that Scotland can say, and if you be not satisfied,
call what particulars you please, and then let them withdraw at your question.
Serjeant Maynard. They sit no more for Scotland than
for another place. They are not arraigned here.
Dr. Clarges. I move that three things be read; the
Declaration in 51, the act of the Long Parliament, and the
Act of Union. They are all before you.
Mr. Lockyer. I hope you are satisfied it is no intrusion in
those members. I shall not speak to the Declaration, nor
to the act of the Long Parliament, (fn. 7) nor to the treaty about
the union. I shall confine myself to the right of that nation.
That they had a right, and have a right to sit here.
The 4th article (fn. 8) makes it out that the distribution shall
be as agreed in Parliament. A bill of union was debated in
a grand committee, and ready to be reported to this House.
In that was a clause that thirty members should be for that
nation. The House not having time to pass this, they did
confirm the ordinance of union, wherein were provided thirty
members for Scotland. Pursuant to this they had a possession
last Parliament. I shall not say we have as good a right as
England, (fn. 9) but we have a sufficient right.
Although the nation of Scotland have a right to send
thirty members, yet no part of Scotland has a right to send
any. That the distribution is not equal, is not consequent to
any member in this House, unless he speak for a county or
borough of that nation.
An assessment was laid upon Scotland by the last Parliament. You regard not the distribution, so you have your
whole sum. If you have given us thirty members, you
have your number. What have you to do more ?
Again: If the Parliament of England be obliged to give
this nation a distribution, an equal distribution, if that
nation be in possession of this distribution, as equal, it cannot
be broken. If this be, bonâ fide, our possession, I say, then,
you are obliged to give the nation this distribution.
It is said there is no distribution according to law, therefore they ought not to sit.
I answer: there is a distribution according to law. I
shall make it out upon the Petition and Advice;per the
fourth and sixth articles. (fn. 10)
None will say this annuls any laws, else no member sits
here upon a foot of law. Then, whatever is not disposed of
there, is referred to the laws of the land. This is a relative
Whatsoever is not disposed, per Petition and Advice, must
be according to law. It is confessed out of their own mouths,
that it must be according to law. There was a law in being,
before the Petition and Advice.
We have sat here three Parliaments upon that distribution;
and have five years possession. By the law of our own na
tion, and upon the Petition and Advice, we have right.
Some gentlemen will say we have forfeited this. Let that be
made out. Your and their enemies would gladly throw this
bone between you and them. There is only the want of a
I move, to put the question, if they shall continue to sit ?
Mr. Manley. It is the happiest day that ever we saw, to
see them here. I shall never go on any thing that the law
will not warrant. I would have a clear debate, that neither
party be entangled. Let your question be, whether they
have a right to sit or no.
Mr. Weaver moved, that the papers offered be read.
Colonel Terrill. I doubt, not that worthy learned gentleman (fn. 11) spoke rationally. I heard not a word he said, but that
they had a right to sit. I shall speak to that claim of right.
I am not satisfied that they have a right by law to sit,
though I doubt not but before this Parliament dissolve, we
shall confirm them on a legal foot.
The writ is not grounded upon the Petition and Advice.
It is a writ at large. The writ should have showed who
should choose them. They might be chosen in London, or
by votes or letters, (fn. 12) for aught appears.
14 Henry VI. (fn. 13) The King sent letters to the Sheriff to
return such knights as he named. There was an Act of Parliament to confirm that, else all done that Parliament had
been invalid, and the Sheriff punished besides.
5 Henry VI. (fn. 14) A statute was determined by the determining the Parliament. The dissolution of the last Parliament
determined the article in toto. (fn. 15) His Highness being but one
estate, could not restore it.
If we sit per the Petition and Advice, I agree with that
learned Dr. Clarges; (fn. 16) they have a better foot than we, for
their number is grounded on thirty. Our number is uncertain. It is a nemo scit, how a Parliament of England could
sit on that foundation. Seeing they could not ground it on
that, they had recourse to the law of England. We sit by
that writ, and cannot sit by any other law.
I would have the record brought hither, of the Petition
and Advice. A printed book is not enough. It may be
mistaken. Observe, the word Highness in the fifth article,
and word "successor" in the explanatory, carry it to perpetuity.
In the name of God, let them carry it! but consider it well.
It can never relate to the fifth article. Successor is a word
of no signification in that place. (fn. 17) I have the form of the
writ in my hand. It relates not a word to the Act of Parliament. That was not pursued. His Highness, having but
a personal power, never pursued it. There was never any
constitution of a Parliament according to this institution, of
the Petition and Advice. If he never executed it, then it is
impossible that his successor should do it.
I acknowledge Acts of Parliament ought to be construed
as wills. (fn. 18) If it appear that his Highness called a Parliament
upon the Petition and Advice, then the other House is the
Parliament, and we are not; for we were not called by that
Petition. If his successors may call, then may his heirs, and
he may appoint his successor. I would have an Act of Parliament brought in to confirm their right.
Mr. Attorney-general. The first and, last part of what he
spoke, concerned the Scotch members: the other part—you
heard it.—I shall say nought to it. Much of this was said
three weeks since, in the debate of the single person, (fn. 19) which
is not now before you.
I am glad it is agreed by that gentleman, that the Petition,
and Advice is a law. He has read upon it. As you are
called hither, not as counsellors at law, but as counsellors of
state, you must advise what is best and safest for the good of
the whole, and not go upon quirks of law, and talk of England, and never come to Scotland.
As to arguments of prudence, if you dissolve this of Scotland, then is the Act of Pardon § gone, and the Act for settling
Courts of Justice and Court Barons (fn. 21) there, is gone. Acts for
Excise, and for taxes, and the Act of Union (fn. 22) also gone. If
there were a formality wanting, whether is it not better to
dispense with it, than to throw off a nation ?
I would, therefore, have you make this your question, that
the nation of Scotland have a right to sit here.
Colonel Matthews. I second the motion, and would have
that worthy gentleman bring in a Bill to that purpose. It
Mr. Secretary. All Colonel Terrills arguments went
against the other House, in answer to a learned Serjeant's
speech. I shall not mention that now. I shall come as near
the question as I can, where it pinches.
The Union, I perceive, is agreed on by all. The ordinance, in 54, to send thirty members from Scotland, was confirmed in 56. That Parliament, in 56, styled themselves
knights, citizens, &c. of the Commonwealth of England,
Scotland, and Ireland, &c.
This Parliament, of necessity, must consist of members sent
from each nation. The means are made as suitable to the.
Petition and Advice as could be. The Protector was bound
to call a Parliament out of the three nations. He was guided
by the Act of Union as to the number, and by former distributions as to the distribution. He found them in actual possession of it, two Parliaments before. He was sworn to maintain this right. He had broken his oath, and turned them
out of this liberty, if he had not done this. Should his Highness put any doubt in this, his safest way was to send his
writs according to foundations before laid. Else, in so great
a case, he had seemed to rob them of their right. They are
before you. Put the question to continue them.
Mr. Skipwith. Id facimus, quod jure facimus.
I would have them united according to a foundation of law,
that it might be unquestionable. Again, union gives not a
right to send members. Wales sent no members, though
they were united in 12 Edward I. till Henry VIII.
I make a question whether they think themselves well represented by persons chosen from hence, that never saw Scotland, but in a map. Is this for Union ? I question whether
thirty members for them be enough.
I conceive there is no record before you of that Union.
You should repeat the Ordinance (fn. 23) itself.
Serjeant Maynard. It argues such a thing in being, by
saying it shall be in force. I cannot come and dispute this in
Westminster-hall. If the Protector had done it out of design
to out-vote you, he would have put more. (fn. 24) I would have no
such thing spoken without evidence.
Colonel Terrill was rising up to explain; but the Chair told
him he could not explain till the Chair called him.
Serjeant Maynard. We cannot, in leagues and contracts
between nations and nations, impose upon one another. It is
jus gentium must; determine it. This Act of Union passes it
out of our power to alter it. It is passed and confirmed by
I shall not, one way, nor other, dispute upon what foot you
stand. Admit, if you should question this, whether may not
they say, but a hundred members are reasonable for you. You
call them a free people, and yet will let them neither have a
Parliament at home, nor have liberty to sit here. You make
laws to bind that nation. You cannot bind them, but by that
Act of Union.
Either you had a power to make laws for that nation, or
you had none. How, then, can the laws touching taxes and
the like bound them, if they have no representatives? I understand not how this can be answered.
As God has united us by situation and by the law, why
should we endeavour thus to break it ? Edward I had reduced
a great part of that nation. He did not own them as a con
quest, but claimed part of that nation as his own. He sent
for Burgesses from thence to Parliament. (fn. 25)
If you turn them out, do you not then judge that the Act
of Union is not a law? Can they take it otherwise ? Is it not
a tacit admission, when you make laws, with them, to lay taxes
on them ? You do, at least, admit them to be members with
What shall the world say of you ? What will the consequence be ? What will it draw upon you, to overturn all
these things for want of form ?
Both for justice and conscience, honour and safety, to avoid
inconveniences; put the question, "That they be continued,"
Resolved, that the House be adjourned until two of the
clock this afternoon.
Afternoon at half-past three.
Mr. Gewen. I honour the Scotch nation, but find no law,
justice, nor right reason, why they should sit here. The
argument for conveniency is no more to me than that for our
fathers' polygamy, vitium temporis, non vitium hominis.
They were united to us when we were a Commonwealth.
I doubt now that that Commonwealth is gone, it ceases to be
It is not for the honour of the English nation to have foreigners to come and have a power in the legislature. They
are but provinces, at best. In justice, you ought not to admit
any other to have an equal power with your own nation. I
remember what an inconveniency it was to have so many
bishops; so many votes for the king; so many votes to comply with the Chief Magistrate. Res loquitur.
I move to put the question, whether they have a right to sit
Dr. Loftus. (Ireland.)
I have not tasted of the waters of Meribah (fn. 26) to be conten
tious, but hearing those reflections upon these nations, I cannot be silent.
He was taken down.
Mr. Weaver said, we ought not to hear him.
Sir Arthur Haslerigge and Mr. Knightley moved, that Dr.
Loftus might take him down if he saw him run into extravagancy.
Sir Anthony Ashley Cooper. He ought to have been
heard out. Let him go on, at the peril of a person's discretion that he keep himself to the orders of the House.
Dr. Loftus went on, and said, that there were a sort of people in the Lords' House, formerly, that went ad nutum Regis, (fn. 27)
there are sixty now that vote ad nutum protectoris.
This is a high reflection. I pray that he may give satisfaction.
Mr. Higgons. It is for the honour of this nation to be incorporate with the Scots. There is no danger of carrying the
The question is not now, whether the deputies for Scotland
shall be admitted. They are admitted, already, but whether
they shall be continued to sit.
He made a very florid speech, and told us how many ways
the Spaniard did make them subject, that he conquered.
Serjeant Wylde. I find those gentlemen sometimes cry up
things done by the Long Parliament, when they make for
their turn, and again reject them when they do not. It was
the most famous memorable Parliament that ever was, since
The humble Petition and Advice is a very humble one indeed; a monstrous thing, a kind of Hydra's head. You have
abolished kingship, and House of Lords. You have not
abolished the laws.
He made a long chattering, and. concluded against their
Serjeant Seys. In the books there are an infinite number of
cases to show that the successor is always bound where the
law is but personal. They that would advise that the word
Highness does not bind, successors, may have their deserts, as
well as he that advised Henry VIII. to avoid Magna Charta,
because he was under age.
The divine, on the fast-day, (fn. 28) told us, if we were always
planting a tree, it would never grow. My motion is, that
they may continue, &c.
Sir Richard Temple. I speak without prejudice either to
the Union or the worthy persons sent.
I am not satisfied with the Act of Union. What was objected is not so clearly answered. For the House to confirm
a record, of which they have no transcript, is strange. If you
were to confirm an indenture, you would have a transcript,
and on record here with you.
I find not by the Petition and Advice that either his late or
his present Highness has power to call Parliaments from the
three nations. There is something in that paragraph rather
that he shall not call them out of the three nations, but as
often as the affair of the nation shall require, not nations.
Laws of the land shall be observed, not laws of the lands.
I confess, in the fourth paragraph, there is a kind of implication that the distribution be for England, Scotland, and Ireland. These are not of constitution, but those words are.
I will show you how they maybe a Parliament of England,
Scotland, and Ireland, and yet have no members from thence.
Commonwealth and kingdom are synonymous. I instance
in Wales. The Parliament of England made laws for Wales,
after it was incorporated, before they had any members.
The like, when our kings had foreign dominions in France,
Aquitaine, and now Jersey and Guernsey. They made laws
for them here. I take Wales and Scotland to be all one.
He was at a wore ultra, and was turning his book, and they
called, go on.
Lord Lambert moved that he might not be disturbed. In
the mean time he got his eyes into his books, and went on.
Sir Richard Temple. That Repetitus Actus, or possession,
on which they insist, does naturalize their distribution.
If this Parliament should say they will lay a tax upon this
nation in such manner as shall after be agreed on, the Parliament rises, re mfecta. There is no distribution agreed on.
If it be in the Protector's power to distribute (fn. 29) as he pleases,
he may lay it upon one country. They never had possession,
since the Act of Union. Unless you admit them now, they
never have had any possession. If the Protector had been
successive and hereditary, I see not but the case might be
The Actum Walliœ distributes the members, though it
leaves the writ at large.
There being such distribution, nought but an Act of Parliament, and an Act of the Parliament of England, can do it.
As to the second objection, ab incommodo, from a breach
of Union, there is no such matter. Does it vitiate any of
your proceedings, more than admitting two members for
Higham Ferrars? (fn. 30)
I am humbly of opinion, that by law they have yet no
foundation. I pray they may be suspended, till they have;
and when the Act comes in I shall give my consent.
Mr. Godfrey. It passes my understanding, to know how
a law made by one nation shall bind another nation. This
sounds to me, as much as that you will neither allow them a
Parliament here, nor at home.
No doubt, the gentleman that last spoke, had well digested
cases of precedent. I have not so good a memory as to mention them all; but if that worthy gentleman may please to
remember that some of them have been long since answered,
viz. that of Wales. Wales, it was told you, was made part
of Engknd. It was hot the Commonwealth of England and
Wales. This is the Commonwealth of England, Scotland,
and Ireland. It was one part of the agreement with that
nation, that there should be an Union. It is said, there was
no Union till the last Parliament, and no possession till this
Parliament. By that very admission, they have a possession.
The precedent is not so dangerous. As to that of laying
taxes, the case differs.
The honour and justice of a Parliament is engaged, that
they shall have the fruit of what they now have a possession.
It proposes an impossibility, that they should be shut out, till
an Act of Parliament call them in. This is to set them
aside. I would have the question put, that they shall be
Mr. Knightky. Though I am not satisfied fully of their
legal right, yet in their equitable right I am not against their
admission. They have an article for their title. No indenture nor decree outs an equitable title.
Cui conceditur aliquid, omnia necessaria concedentur, was
well moved by a learned gentleman of that country. (fn. 31) If I
grant you twenty trees out of my wood, if I make you not a
gate, you will make a gap. We must do like prudent men,
not as counsel at the bar to plead, but to advise. It is no
dishonour to them, that we have brought them into question.
If you please, put the question for their continuance, I shall
give my yea to it.
Mr. Gott. There are three rights, possessory, political,
We were afraid to transact with the Lords, because we
were afraid to own them. We have transacted with these,
and yet we have not owned them.
For the political right. If it be political that they should
be united, it is also so that they should have a part of legislature with us.
We are stopped by our oaths, and the Lord Protector is
also, stopped by our Act of Union, and by our Act of Recognition. We cannot alter the Union. All the parts of the
Commonwealth ought to contribute to the legislature.
The four seas do environ this happy island, as the four
rivers did the garden of Eden.
Queen Elizabeth made way for it. (fn. 32) They always declared
she kept her virginity purposely to bring forth such a happy first-born. (fn. 33) King James endeavoured. (fn. 34) This Union
must be preserved by natural means, and not by force. This
is the natural way to preserve them in our bosom, by that
happy accession of them to our legislature.
This has been one occasion of the great tumults in Ireland,
that we have not till now taken them into our legislature.
As to the legal right. The Declarations, Act of Union,
and Petition and Advice, have been so fully spoken to, both by
members for that nation and our own nation, that I can add
nought to that. What is objected against it is but as the
Tweed, which a man may easily wade through.
It is agreed that Berwick is a part of Scotland; and we
have members sitting here for Berwick. (fn. 35) Let us not do
what our posterities may for ever repent. I should thus far
consent that an act may be brought in, if it be but declaratory. My motion is to continue their sitting.
Mr. Scot. Which of us have said, (unless one,) that
the Union is not desirable ? It is not so voluntary on their
part. Are you not forced to maintain it with an army at
11,000l. per mensem? It is hearty, it seems, on one side. We
sent our own commissioners to invite them to an Union.
They claim their title from Edward I. (fn. 36) Haply those were
sent for from Scotland to treat, but none makes it out that
it was to have part in the legislature. Edward the First's
title and practice is no rule to you.
All the constitution of England, I perceive, is built upon
intentions now. Another House, upon intention of another
House, and his Highness must prosecute this intention.
The like for the distribution of those members. What sit
you for, if another must supply your laws by his own implication ? If you rise re infecta, whose fault is it ?
Possession and intention is all that the Chief Magistrate or
the other House has. The like title is this now claimed. It
was told you if this be not admitted, Major-generals will
come, or you must fight for the other House after. (fn. 37)
I would have us give them a title irrefragable, a coalition,
indeed, when it has had your sanction. Till then, they are
not united to you. Till then, they are a wooden leg (fn. 38) tied to
a natural body.
We use not those words expel, eject, or the like. This is
like putting one in a bear's skin and then baiting him. (fn. 39) If
I let another, man set dung upon my land, shall this carry
away a title to my land. By this possession, all they have
is but a single constitution by implication from this House,
and by exemption of the single person. This may be done
by declaring you need no concurrence of another House. If
you please, you may take the concurrence of the Chief
He reflected upon his Highness that is gone.
Serjeant Maynard. I would have these reflections spared.
Colonel Whetham. We can judge of none but by their
submission, their protestation. I cannot look into their
hearts. I know they desire union as much as may be. I
would have these reflections spared. I have occasion to
know their nature by an employment (fn. 40) too honourable for
me, that his Highness has been pleased to give me there.
Sir John Lenthall. That nation has had as free a Parliament as ever we had, amongst themselves. (fn. 41) All their fault is
submission to us and our laws. We may very well allow
them a yea, and a no, in making laws for us. If you should
shut them out; they go home and tell their neighbours.
May not they, by the law of nature, take a power to call
a Parliament of their own ? I speak as well for Ireland.
The Spaniards have made great advantages upon the
temper of the Irish; and Scotland is apt, to invade.
If every unhappiness of ours must be theirs, while they
are incorporated with us, my motion is, that you would spare
such reflections for the future.
Mr. Ross. (Scottish.) It may be thought strange that I
should speak in a matter of this nature. But that the nation
is concerned, I should hold my peace. That which called
me up is to supply what the worthy person in the corner
omitted. (Mr. Scot.) It was said, that all our affection to
England was shown in 40. I suppose we owned it in 43.
I suppose those acts are not out of mind. It is said our affections to another nation, to France, have been more expansive.
We are not to judge hearts. We expected not this language when we came. I shall not mention the consequence,
what may happen, upon the prudential account, after so
long possession, if this right, which we legally possess by the
Union, be denied.
We are called Pharisees and hypocrites. I am sure I find
none of that language in the declaration of 43; (fn. 42) there is
nought there but your dear brethren: I hope we have not
lost that title by our union with you. It is excepted, that
we send not natives but English. It is a good sign that we
reap the fruit of our union, when we can trust one another.
We have an affection for this nation. You have won our
affection, not by the dint of your swords; but that worthy
person, General Monk, to his honour be it spoken, and those
worthy officers amongst us, have won our affections. (fn. 43) We are
not so senseless as not to know better what is for our good,
than to bear a greater affection for another nation than this.
We are said (fn. 44) to know no more but yea and no. I confess
I am not able to contribute much to your debate; but
I hope we are more than ciphers.
One gentleman complimented with us, and told us, that
of civility and modesty we. should withdraw. A noble
knight in the corner (fn. 45) made us a rhetorical speech to that
purpose. For my part, it is not the rhetoric of the one
nor of the other that shall compliment me out of doors.
I think myself at home when I am here.
It was dark and I could not write any farther. He concluded his motion, that reflections for the future might be
Divers stood up to speak. Some moved for candles;
others to adjourn. There was a great noise and horrid confusion.
Mr. Young compared it to a cockpit.
Dr.Clarges excepted against him, as using unparliamentary
Sir Arthur Haslerigge justified him.
This, confused noise held for an hour, and doctors differed
on the orders of the House, whether a candle should be
brought to the table. It was brought thither, and carried to
the table, per Mr. Speaker's command, and then set in the
midst of the floor.
Mr. Speaker forced through a question for candles, many
standing up in the mean time.
The question was put that candles be now brought in.
Mr. Speaker declared for the Yeas.
Sir Arthur Haslerigge declared for the Noes.
The House was divided. The Yeas went forth.
Yeas 148. Colonel Grosvenor and Colonel Fielder, Tellers.
Noes 160. Sir Richard Temple and Colonel Mildmay,
So the question passed in the negative.
Resolved, that this debate concerning the sitting of the
members returned for Scotland, be adjourned until tomorrow morning at eight of the clock, and that the same be
than proceeded in; and that nothing else do then intervene.
The House rose at seven.
Sir Henry Vane. We are not able to hold out sitting
thus in the night.
Sir Henry Ingoldsby. He might well be spared.
Some excepted against that expression; but it was late.