House of Lords Journal Volume 9
4 May 1647

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 9: 4 May 1647', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 9: 1646 (1767-1830), pp. 173-176. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=37029 Date accessed: 01 October 2014.


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DIE Martis, 4 die Maii.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Gibbons.

Domini præsentes fuerunt:

Comes Manchester, Speaker.

Comes Kente.
Comes Warwicke.
Comes Sarum.
Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Lyncolne.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Comes Suffolke.
Comes Mulgrave.
Comes Northumb.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. Grey.
Ds. Hunsdon.
Ds. Bruce.
Ds. Dacres.
Ds. North.
Ds. Maynard.
Ds. Willoughby.
Ds. Wharton.

Ordinance to disband Col. Collingwood's Regiment.

An Ordinance was this Day brought in, for disbanding the Regiment of Collingwood, in the County of Northumberland; and read Twice.

Papers from the Prince Elector.

The Lord North reported, "That the Committee of both Houses had been with the Prince Elector, to receive from him what he had to communicate concerning the Affairs Abroad, which concern the Protestant Cause; and his Highness did deliver to them some Papers, which do state the Condition of the Affairs of the Protestant Religion as it stands Abroad:" Which were read in this House. (Here enter them.)

Committee to prepare Heads for a Conference about them.

Ordered, That it be referred to these Lords following, to recollect out of all these Papers what they think sitting to be offered to the House of Commons concerning this Business, and report the same to this House:

Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Warwicke.
Comes Mulgrave.
Comes Manchester.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Comes Sarum.
Comes Lyncolne.
Ds. North.
Ds. Grey.
Ds. Hunsdon.
Ds. Howard.

Any Three, to meet To-morrow in the Afternoon, at Three of the Clock; and afterwards to adjourn from Time to Time, as they shall see Cause.

Langham & al. and Lymbry & al.

The Judges this Day delivered their Opinion in Writing, concerning the Case referred to them upon the Case of Alderman Langham, &c. and Captain Lymbery; which was read, as follows:

"May it please your Lordships,

"We have considered of the Reference to us, between Alderman Langham and Mr. Lymbery; and we find that the Case, as it is drawn up, doth comprehend many Matters and Passages in several Courts, without concluding upon any particular Question: And the Order of Reference is, to deliver our Opinions thereupon, without directing the same to any particular Point or Question, which we conceive not to be the Intent of your Lordships; and therefore we humbly desire that your Lordships will be pleased to declare to what Points or Question your Meaning is, we shall deliver our Opinions."

And the Question being put, "Whether their Lordships will appoint this Day Sevennight, to debate this Cause themselves, before they hear further from the Judges ?"

And the Votes were even.

Washington arrested, for Free Quarter taken by him when in the King's Army.

Upon reading the Petition of Henry Washington Esquire; complaining, "That he being an Officer in the King's Army, and by his Commission quartered with his Regiment at the Town of Evesham; and he is arrested, upon Three several Actions, amounting to Three Hundred Pounds, at the Suit of John Tudman, Thomas Jones, and Isaac Diston, for Free Quarter: Therefore desires some speedy Consideration may be had of his Case."

It is Ordered, That an Ordinance be brought to this Purpose in general.

Message from the Assembly, about Bell's Translation of a Book of Luther's.

A Message was brought from the Assembly of Divines, by Doctor Smyth, concerning the Business referred to them touching the Translation of a Book of Martin Luther's; which was read, as follows. (Here enter it.)

And it is Ordered, That the Order concerning this Business, depending in this House, shall be laid aside.

Sir J. Thynn's Petition.

The House took into Debate (fn. *) the Business about Sir James Thynne's Petition.

And the Question being put, "Whether to receive this Petition from Sir James Thynne?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Ordered, That the Petition of Sir James Thynne shall be read and considered of on Thursday next.

Message from the H. C. to sit a while.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Herbert:

That, upon some urgent Occasions, they desire their Lordships would please to sit a while.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will sit a while, as is desired.

Message from thence, with an Order.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Colonel Harvey, &c.

To desire Concurrence in an Order concerning the Tenants of the Doctor Juxon, late Bishop of London.

(Here enter it.)

Read, and Agreed to.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House agrees to this Order now brought up.

Chaplin to be instituted to Witheringsett cum Brockford;

Ordered, That Doctor Heath shall give Institution and Induction to Abraham Chaplyn Clerk, to the Rectory and Church of Wetheringsett cum Brockford in the County of Suffolke, void by Death of Wm. Withers late Incumbent; he producing his Presentation under the Hand and Seal of Sir Wm. Soames, Patron; he taking the Covenant: And this to be with a salvo Jure cujuscunque.

and Lawson to East Doniland.

Ordered, That Doctor Heath shall give Institution and Induction to Mr. Thomas Laswon, to the Rectory of East Doniland, in the County of Essex; he being presented thereunto by Henry Tunstall Esquire; he taking the Covenant: And this with a salvo Jure cujuscunque.

Simpson and Thomas, in Error.

Ordered, That the Errors in the Writ of Errors between Sympson and Thomas shall be argued, by Counsel on both Sides, To-morrow Sevennight, at this Bar.

Captain Poe's Petition.

Ordered, That the Petition of Captain Poe be sent to the House of Commons, with Recommendations.

Message from the H. C. with an Ordinance.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Denzell Holles Esquire:

To (fn. †) deliver an Ordinance for constituting the Persons chosen by the City of London to have Power of the Militia of London, wherein they desired their Lordships Concurrence.

(Here enter it.)

Read Thrice, and Agreed to.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House agrees to this Ordinance now brought up.

Papers from the Prince Elector, concerning the Protestant Cause, containing Observations on the Articles delivered by the Emperor's Ambassador.

"Some Observations upon the Articles delivered by the Ambassadors of the Emperor.

"Amnestia. This pretended Amnestia hath been concluded by the Emperor, and most Parts of the Catholick Princes and States of the Empire, confirming the Peace of Prague, and is infinitely to the Prejudice of the Protestants, who, at the same Diet at Ratisbone, Anno 1641, and ever since, have protested against it, desiring that a general and altogether unlimited Amnestia might be established in the Empire.

"Guithelmiane Line.
By this Line [ (fn. *) are understood] all the Descendents of Duke William, Father to the Duke of Bavaria. Those that are at this present living are, the said Duke, his Two Sons, the Elector of Collen, and Duke Albertus with his Two Sons. The Consequence of this Article is the more dangerous, because by it not only his Highness the Prince Elector Palatine, his Family, and all the Palatine Line, are most unjustly excluded for ever from the Electoral Dignity, and all Rights appertaining to them, but also the Protestant Religion and Professors thereof put to the Hazard of Persecution whensoever it pleaseth the Emperor and Catholic Princes; since, by the Exclusion of the Palatine Family from the said Electoral Dignity, the Catholic have the major Part in the Electoral College, and by this the Means to decree and practise whatsoever they please against the said Protestants.
"Thirteen Millions.
The Emperor oweth to the Duke of Bavaria the Sum of Thirteen Millions, for his Assistance in and since the War of Bohemia; and, for Security thereof, mortgaged to the said Duke a Part of his own Country, The Upper Austria.
"Eighth Elector.
The Electoral College is composed of Six Electors; Three Ecclesiastical; Mentz, Trier, Collen; and Three Secular, The Palatine, Sane, and Brandebourg; which, with the Emperor, advise and direct the Affairs of the Empire. The King of Bohemia is only admitted at the Election of an Emperor, or King of the Romans, for a casting Vote: Now, being that the Establishment of an Eighth Elector would breed a great Inconvenience at the said Election in case the Votes should be even, and that it is against the fundamental Laws of the Empire, the other Princes and States thereof (who must join with the Emperor and the Electors for the altering of the said Law) will hardly ever consent to such a Novelty, which may carry with it many other Incumbrances.

"Besides, this present Offer implies that the Duke of Bavere is to retain all the Rights and Advantages which belong to the Palatine Electoral; (videlicet,) amongst many others,

"1mo, After the Death of an Emperor, the Prince Elector Palatine is Vice Emperor (or Imperii Vicarius), in the Rhinish, Suevian, and Franconian Circles, till another Emperor be elected.

"2o, In Differences between the Emperor and another Prince of the Empire, he is the only Judge.

"3o, When the Emperor is absent, and gone beyond The Alpes, or out of the Empire, he is Vice Emperor through the whole Empire.

"4, He is Generalissimo over all those Forces and Armies that are levied and conducted in the Empire, against a Public Enemy thereof.

"5, He may release the Towns and Lands of the Empire that have been mortgaged by former Emperors, at the same Price, and the same Conditions, as they were mortgaged; and may possess the same till they are released again by the Emperor.

"6, He hath Power to create Noblemen and Gentlemen.

"So that (fn. *) if these Privileges be taken away, nothing will remain but the bare Title and Vote; and the Upper Palatinate being also defaulked, the Lower infinitely ruined and depopulated, The Bergstraes which hath been these Two Hundred Years incorporated into it now taken from it, the Queen of Bohemia's Jointure, the Maintenance of his Four Brothers according to their Rank, and Four Sisters to be provided for, many Debts upon the Country and Family, will render the Remainder very inconsiderable, and the Support of the State and Quality of an Elector altogether impossible.

"The Prince Elector Palatine, having had too certain Knowledge that the Distractions of this Kingdom, and of the Kingdom of Scotland, have for some Years been such as have wholly disabled them to undertake and do any Thing in Avowment and Pursuance of that Manifest which was published by His Majesty, and confirmed by the Parliaments of both the said Kingdoms, about Six Years since, at the Time that Sir Thomas Rowe was sent Ambassador Extraordinary to the Emperor, hath been in that respect thus long spared the troubling them with any Representation of the State of his Public Affairs; looking still and longing for that happy Hour, wherein it might please God to reduce these Kingdoms to such a Settlement, as might enable them to demand the full Restitution of his Electoral Highness to his ancient Estates and Dignity, in such a Way as, by God's Blessing, might be likely to take Effect: But having now received a reiterated Information, as well from those Deputies which, by the Persuasion of the Crowns of France and Sweden, his Electoral Highness sent to the General Treaty of Peace held at Munster and Osnabrug about Two Years since, and whom he hath there continued at great Charges ever since, as also from divers other sure Hands, that the Peace between the King of Spaine and The States of The United Provinces is in the most, and the most difficult, Points fully agreed; and further, on the said Kings Part, already provisionally confirmed; that the Peace between the Emperor and the said Crowns of France and Sweden is also either agreed, or far advanced; that the Differences between the Crowns of France and Spaine are also in a Way, and upon Terms, of being reconciled, by the Interposition of the Free States of The Low Countryes, whom the King of Spaine hath been contented to admit for Mediators between Himself and the King of France; and that whereas certain Articles concerning the Affairs of his Electoral Highness were a while since presented, by the Imperial Plenipotentiaries at Munster, to those of Sueden there, but such as his Elector Highness cannot either with Honour or good Conscience, nor without the manifest and utter Ruin not only of himself and of his Family, but of the whole Reformed Religion in Germany, yield unto and accept, as appears by this annexed Paper, Num. 1°; in which respect the said Articles were at first rejected by the Suedes: Yet, after some Replies on the one Side and the other, which are to be seen by Num. 2, and 3, the Imperialists seem resolved to abate very little of the Rigour of the said Articles, and the Plenipotentiaries of France too much inclined to give Passage to the most impassable Points of the same, as the Extracts, Num. 4, do shew; insomuch that his Electoral Highness is in imminent and extreme Danger, either to be concluded with an infinite Diminution of his Rights and Territories, and no less Prejudice to the Protestant Cause and Party, by the said Articles, or, upon his Refusal of them, to be excluded out of the General Peace, which will render his Case altogether irremediable, unless some speedy and effectual Course be taken to prevent the same.

"In this Extremity, his Electoral Highness, fearing that he might hereafter be blamed if he should not give seasonable Notice of this critical Exigent of his Affairs, could no longer delay to have his Recourse to the Honourable Houses, who have in all Times shewed so much true Affection and sincere Zeal to his Cause, and to the Interest of the Protestant Reformed Religion very much depending thereupon; and doth therefore earnestly desire that they would be pleased to advise upon the most likely and practicable Means to support his Affairs, being in so dangerous a Posture, from going to sudden Ruin, with regard as well to the present Condition of this Kingdom as to the above mentioned Manisest.

"Whitehall, this 26th of March, 1647."

Message from the Assembly, about Bell's Translation of Luther's last Divine Discourse.

"To the Right Honourable the House of Peers in Parliament assembled.

"The Assembly of Divines having received an Order from this Honourable House, referring the Translation of a Book, called "Marten Luther's last Divine Discourses," made by Captain Henry Bell, to the Consideration of the Assembly of Divines sitting at Westm'r, and to make Certificate of their Opinions therein; do humbly certify, That they have perused the Translation of the said Luther's Discourses (a Man whose Praise is throughout all the Churches of Christ), and do find in them many good Things, the most whereof are extant in his known and approved Works: But withal there are very many Passages contrary to such Gravity and Modesty, so, as we humbly conceive, they are very unfit for public Use, notwithstanding the great Pains of the Translator.

May 3, 1647.

"Charles Herle, Prolocutor.
Corn. Burges, Assessor.
Herbert Palmer, Assessor.
Henry Roborough, Scriba.
Adoniram Byfeild, Scriba."

Order for Doctor Juxon Bishop of London's Tenants to pay him their Rents.

"Whereas divers of the late Tenants of Doctor Juxon, late Bishop of London, have refused, and do refuse, to pay the Rents, or other Sums of Money, due unto him, as Bishop of London, at or before the First of November last: It is Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That the said Tenants do pay the said Rents and Sums of Money: And it is further Ordered, That the Trustees for the Sale of Bishops Lands be hereby authorized and required to appoint their Receiver or Receivers of the Revenues and Rents of the said Bishopric forthwith to demand, receive, and levy, all the said Arrears of the said several Tenants so due as aforesaid, and to pay the same unto Doctor Juxon, or to such other Person or Persons as he shall under his Hand and Seal authorize to receive the same, who are also to use all such due Ways and Means, for Recovery of the said Arrears, if they be denied, as by any Ordinance of Parliament they are enabled, for the levying of the present Rents and Revenues of the said Bishopric."

Ordinance for the Persons chosen by the City of London to have the Power of their Militia.

"Whereas the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Commons, of the City of London, in Common Council assembled, in Pursuance of an Ordinance of Parliament, of 16 April. 1647, have nominated, and presented to both Houses of Parliament, the Lord Mayor and Sheriffs of the City of London for the Time being, Sir John Wollaston Knight, Thomas Adams, John Langham, James Bunce, William Gibbs, Samuell Avery, and John Bide, Aldermen of the said City, and Major General Skippon, and Francis West Lieutenant of The Tower, Christopher Pack, Cap tain John Jones, Colonel John Bellamy, Lieutenant Colonel Nathaniell Camfeild, Captain Richard Venner, Edwin Browne, Walter Boothby, Colonel Robert Manwaringe, Thomas Arnold, Tempest Milner, Maurice Gethin, Colonel Thomas Gower, Colonel Edward Hooker, Richard Glyer, Colonel Richard Turner, William Kendall, Lieutenant Colonel Lawrence Bromefeild, Lieutenant Colonel Edward Bellamy, and John Grace, as fit Persons to be a Committee for the Militia of the City of London and Liberties thereof, and all other Places within the Line of Communication and Weekly Bills of Mortality: The Lords and Commons do hereby approve of the said Persons, to be a Committee as aforesaid; and the said Lords and Commons do thereby Ordain, That the said Persons, or any Nine of them, whereof Three to be Aldermen and Six to be Commons, are hereby constituted a Committee for the said Militia, to order and direct the same, according to the true Intent and Meaning of the said Ordinance of Parliament."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 10a cras.

Footnotes

* Deest in Originali.
Origin. desire.
* Bis in Originali.
* Deest in Originali.