SPEECHES and DEBATES In the Sixth Session of the First Parliament of King George II.
Anno 6. Geo. II. 1732-33.
On the 16th of January the King came to the
House of Peers, and the Commons attending, his
Majesty open'd the Sessions with the following
Speech.
King's Speech at opening the Sixth Session.
My Lords and Gentlemen,
"It is a great Satisfaction to me, that the present Situation
of Affairs, both at Home and Abroad, makes it unnecessary for me to lay before you any other Reasons for
my calling you together at this Time; but the ordinary
Dispatch of the Publick Business, and that I may have an
Opportunity of receiving your Advice upon such Affairs as
may occur to you, and shall require the Care and Consideration of Parliament.
Gentlemen of the House of Commons,
"I will order the proper Officers to lay before you the
Estimates for the Service of the current Year; and I
make no Doubt but that you will, with the same Chearfulness as I have always experienced in you, effectually
raise such Supplies, as you shall judge necessary for the
Honour, Safety, and Defence of the Kingdom; and I
cannot but recommend it to you, as a Consideration worthy the Commons of Great Britain, that in all your Deliberations, as well upon raising the annual Supplies, as the
Distribution of the Publick Revenues, you pursue such
Measures as will most conduce to the present and future
Ease of those you represent.
My Lords and Gentlemen,
"You must be sensible, that it is very desirable to give
all possible Dispatch to the Publick Business, and that nothing can give more Weight and Credit to all your Resolutions, than to avoid unreasonable Heats and Animosities, and not to suffer yourselves to be diverted, by any
specious Pretences, from stedfastly pursuing the true Interest of your Country: Let that be your first and principal Care; and the People will be sensible of the Benefits
they shall receive from your Wisdom and Resolution, in
preferring their Ease and the Publick Good to all other
Considerations.
Mr H Bromley's Motion for an Address of Thanks. ; Debate thereon.
The Commons being returned to their House, Mr Speaker
reported his Majesty's Speech to both Houses, and the same
being read, Mr Henry Bromley, Knight of the Shire for
Cambridge, stood up and took Notice, 'That the present
profound Tranquility was entirely owing to his Majesty's
great Wisdom and Conduct, by which he had surmounted
all those Difficulties, which were thrown in his Way by the
Enemies of the Nation, and had thereby at last establish'd
our Affairs both at Home and Abroad upon a most firm, and
he hoped, a lasting Basis: That we ow'd a great many Acknowledgements of Thanks to his Majesty, for his prudent
and careful Management of our Affairs both at Home and
Abroad, and therefore he would beg Leave to move, That an
humble Address be presented to his Majesty, to return the
Thanks of the House for his most gracious Speech from the
Throne; to express the Satisfaction of the House at the
present Situation of Affairs both at Home and Abroad; and to
assure his Majesty, that the House would, with all possible
Duty to his Majesty, and just Regard and Concern for those
they represented, chearfully and effectually raise such Supplies as should be necessary for the Honour, Safety, and Defence of his Majesty and his Kingdoms; and that, in all
their Deliberations upon raising the annual Supplies, and the
Distribution of the Publick Revenues, they would pursue
such Measures as would most conduce to the present and future Ease of their Fellow-Subjects; and that, in order to give
the necessary Dispatch to the Publick Business, and that their
Proceedings might carry with them that Weight and Credit
in the Nation, which ought always to attend the Resolutions of the Commons of Great Britain, they would endeavour to avoid all unreasonable Heats and Animosities, and
not suffer themselves to be diverted, by any specious Pretences
whatsoever, from stedfastly pursuing the true Interest of their
Country, which should upon all Occasions be their first and
principal Care.' This Motion was seconded by Mr Knight,
Member for Sudbury, who likewise spoke in Praise of his
Majesty's Conduct, and added, 'That he hoped the House
would be unanimous in agreeing to the Address of Thanks,
moved for by the honourable Member who had spoke before
him.' Hereupon Sir John Barnard, Member for London,
rose up and mov'd for an Amendment to the said Motion
as follows:
Mr Speaker,
'I shall always be ready to make all proper Acknowledgements of Thanks to his Majesty; but there are some
Words in the Motion made by the honourable Gentleman
who spoke first, which I cannot but take Notice of. I do
not really know what the honourable Gentleman means by
saying, 'We will endeavour to avoid all unreasonable Heats
and Animosities, and not suffer ourselves to be diverted
by any specious Pretences whatsoever.' I hope there never
were, nor never will be any unreasonable Heats or Animosities in this House, nor any specious Pretences made use of
by any Gentleman who has the Honour to be a Member
thereof; at least, I hope, that if any Man shall ever be vain
enough to endeavour to impose upon this House, by making
use of specious Pretences for concealing Designs which he
dare not openly avow, that there will always be in this House
Men of Understanding and Integrity sufficient to expose any
such Attempt, and to render it vain and ridiculous. But if
any Gentleman of the House happens not to like what is
said, or what is moved for by another, cannot he oppose it,
and give his Reasons for so doing, without being guilty of any
unreasonable Heat or Animosity, or of making use of specious Pretences? I must say, Sir, that the desiring such
Words to be put into our Address of Thanks to his Majesty,
to me looks as if the Gentleman was conscious that there is
something to be brought before us, in this Session of Parliament, which he foresees will meet with a warm Opposition;
and, I hope, if any Thing of an extraordinary Nature is to
be brought before us, no Gentleman will be precluded by
these Words, or by any Words that can be put into our Address, from giving his Sentiments freely upon any Question
that may occur. If any Thing should happen to be proposed in this House, which evidently appears to be inconsistent
with the Liberties or the Trade of this Nation, I hope the
Indignation of every Man that thinks so, will rise against
such a Proposition, and that he will oppose it with that
honest Warmth, as becomes every Man who has the Happiness of his Country really at Heart: Such a Warmth is no
unreasonable Heat; it does not proceed from Animosity,
but from that honest Zeal, which every Man in this House
ought to have for the Constitution of his Country, and for
the Liberties and Properties of the People he represents.
'But before I say any Thing more upon this Subject, I
must take Notice of a preceding Part of the Motion made
by the honourable Gentleman: He proposes for us to say,
'That we will raise the Supplies in such Manner as will most
conduce to the present and future Ease of the Subject.'
Now, there seems to be a great Jealousy without Doors,
as if something were intended to be done in this Session of
Parliament, that may be destructive to our Liberties, and detrimental to our Trade: From whence this Jealousy hath
arisen, I do not know; but it is certain that there is such a
Jealousy among all Sorts of People, and in all Corners of the
Nation; and therefore we ought to take the first Opportunity to quiet the Minds of the People, and to assure them
that they may depend upon the Honour and Integrity of
the Members of this House; and that we never will consent
to any Thing that may have the least Appearance of being
destructive to their Liberties, or detrimental to their Trade;
for which Reason I must move for an Amendment, and that
these Words, And such as shall be consistent with the Trade,
Interest, and Liberty of the Nation, may be added to what
the honourable Gentleman has already proposed.'
Mr Sandys.
Sir John Barnard was back'd by Mr Sandys, Member
for Worcester, who declared, 'That he saw no Manner of
Occasion for inserting, 'That they should endeavour to avoid all unreasonable Heats and Animosities, nor suffer
themselves to be diverted by any specious Pretences;' for
that twas never to be presum'd with regard to the House
of Commons, that they should fall into any unreasonable
Heats and Animosities, or suffer themselves to be diverted by
specious Pretences from stedfastly pursuing the true Interest of
their Country: That such a Reflection was derogatory to the
Honour of the House in general, and of that House in particular, who deserved it, in his Opinion, as little as any
House ever did; nay, 'twas somewhat strange that this
House, after having sat so quietly for so many Sessions, and
granted so many considerable Supplies, should at length so
officiously be put in mind of their Duty, and desired to avoid unreasonable Heats and Animosities: And as for the
other Part of the Motion, taken Notice of by Sir John Barnard, 'twas his Opinion the Amendment proposed was not
only very proper, but also became absolutely necessary at
that Juncture.'
Mr Shippen.
Then Mr Shippen moved for a farther Amendment as
follows:
Mr Speaker,
'I have always been against long Addresses; I am ready
enough to agree to an Address of Thanks to his Majesty for
his most gracious Speech from the Throne; but such Address ought to be in the most concise Terms, and the most
general Words: This was the ancient Usage of Parliament,
and I find but few of our old Customs that are alter'd for the
better: However, if we must go on with the Custom of
making long-winded Addresses, I think we ought to take
some Notice of the Spirit that is at present among the People. It is very certain, that there are great Fears, Jealousies,
and Suspicions without Doors, that something is to be attempted in this Session of Parliament, which is generally
thought to be destructive to the Liberties and to the Trade
of this Nation. There is at present a most remarkable and
general Spirit among the People, for protecting and defending
their Liberties and their Trade, in Opposition to those Attempts which they expect are to be made against both:
From all Quarters we hear of Meetings and Resolutions for
that Purpose; and this Spirit is so general, that it cannot be
ascribed to any one Set of Men: They cannot be branded
with the Name of Jacobites or of Republicans, nor can it
be said that this Opposition is made only by Jacobites and
Republicans; no, the whole People of England seem to be
united in this Spirit of Jealousy and Opposition. Whether
there be any Reason or Ground for exerting such a Spirit
at present, I do not know; but I am sure it ought not to be
entirely neglected. It is well known that I am no Friend to
popular Remonstrances; a Man that is a Favourer of Monarchy cannot well approve of such Measures; but such Remonstrances are not to be contemned: A thorough Contempt
of them may produce the most terrible Effects.
'I look on it as a most certain Maxim, that the People never
would so generally complain, unless they found themselves
some way hurt; and then they have a Right to complain,
and it is our Duty to take Notice of their Complaints; but
at the same Time we ought to have a Regard to the Honour and Dignity of Parliament; for which Reason I shall beg
Leave to add to the Amendment proposed, and move that
these Words, And such as shall be consistent with the Honour
and Justice of Parliament, may be added to what has been
before proposed.'
Sir R. Walpole.
The Addition of these Words being approved of by Sir
John Barnard and Mr Sandys, Sir Robert Walpole stood up
next, and spoke as follows.
Mr Speaker,
'I now rise up, Sir, to do what is not usual for me to
do; it is to second a Motion made by my worthy Friend
who spoke last. I was really of Opinion, that his Majesty's
Speech was in such Terms, that no Exception could have
been taken to any one Word at it; and the Motion for an
Address of Thanks was so short and so agreeable to his Majesty's Speech, that I could not imagine any such Objection
could have been made, as has been made to some of the
Words thereof. His Majesty in his Speech recommends the
avoiding of unreasonable Heats and Animosities, and in Answer to that Part of his Majesty's Speech, the honourable
Gentleman, who moved for the Address, proposed that we
should say, that we would avoid all unreasonable Heats and
Animosities: In my Opinion, there cannot be a more proper Return to that Part of the Speech: And as his Majesty
only desires that we would avoid all unreasonable Heats
and Animosities, he surely did not thereby intend to preclude
any Man from offering his Sentiments freely on whatever
may be proposed. If any Thing be proposed that is inconsistent with the Publick Good, no Opposition thereto can be
called an unreasonable Heat or Animosity; nor is such an
Opposition any Way comprehended in the Words made use
of by his Majesty, in his most gracious Speech from the
Throne.
'As for the Amendment proposed In the other Part of
the Motion, it really seems to me to be liable to the same
Objection, that has been made to the Words I have just now
taken Notice of. It is not to be presumed that we will do
any Thing that is inconsistent with the Honour and Justice
of Parliament; if any such Thing should be proposed, it
would, without Doubt, be rejected with Scorn. And as for
the Trade of the Nation, I do not know what the Gentlemen mean thereby; but as to what I mean by the Trade of
the Nation, and in so far as I understand it, I hope nothing
will ever be brought into this House that is or can be detrimental thereto; if there should, it would most certainly
be rejected. I am sure, Sir, that I know of no such Design,
I know of nothing that is to be brought in, that can any
Way injure the Trade of the Nation; but if any Thing can
be proposed for the Improvement thereof, I shall very readily
agree to it, and so, I hope, will every Gentleman in this
House.
'I agree with the honourable Gentleman who spoke last,
that the Complaints of the People are not to be neglected,
when they are sincere and true; I hope they will always be
regarded by every Gentleman in this House: If the People
are hamper'd in their Trade, or in any other Way hurt, they
must feel it, and they will feel it before they begin to complain; in such Case it is the Duty of this House, not only
to hear their Complaints, but to find out a Remedy, if possible: But the People may be taught to complain, they may
be made to feel imaginary Ills, and by such Practices they
are often induced to make Complaints before they feel any
Uneasiness. However, let the People's Complaints be real or
imaginary, let them be well or ill founded, it does not signify to the present Question: If the Gentlemen think it
necessary to add the Words they have proposed, the Adding
or not Adding of them is to me a Matter of absolute Indifference, they may do whatever they think proper.'
Mr W. Plumer.
Sir Robert Walpole having done speaking, Mr. Walter
Plumer hereupon replied, 'That he did not know whether
or no the People might be taught to complain when they
felt no Hurt; but was well assur'd, that if by any Means they
were taught not to complain, they would at last come to
feel the Hurt severely, when perhaps their Complaints would
avail nothing, but rather expose them to the Contempt of
those who had done them the greatest Injuries.'
Sir J. Barnard.
Then Sir John Barnard stood up again, and spoke as
follows:
Mr Speaker,
'If the honourable Gentleman on the Floor [Sir Robert
Walpole] thinks that our Trade cannot be hurt by what the
People seem to be afraid of, I am sure he must think that he
understands Trade better than all the Traders in England;
and if that is his Notion, I do not really understand what
Trade he means, but he must mean, by the Trade of the
Nation, something different from what is thereby meant by
all those that are concern'd therein, I thought I had given
a sufficient Reason for adding the Words I proposed; but
since it has been infinuated, that they are liable to the same
Objection as the Words first taken Notice of by me, I must
explain myself a little farther. It is certainly to be presum'd,
that this House will never agree to any Thing that is destractive to the Liberties, or detrimental to the Trade of the
Nation: I am sure, if ever we do, we shall do what is inconsistent with the Honour and Justice of Parliament. This is
certainly not to be presum'd; yet we find there is a Spirit of
Jealousy gone forth; there are very general Apprehensions
that some such Thing is intended; and for this Reason, I
moved for the Amendment; but there are no Jealousies, no
Fears of our falling into unreasonable Heats and Animosities;
his Majesty, I hope, never had any such Jealousy, and I am
sure the Body of the People apprehend no such Misfortune;
and therefore there is no Reason for having any such Words
in our Address.'
Sir T. Aston.
The Question was then put, and the Amendment proposed
was agreed to without any Division: Then Sir Thomas
Aston, Member for Leverpool, stood up, and made a farther
Objection to Mr Bromley's Motion as follows:
Mr Speaker,
'I cannot in any Address, to be presented to his Majesty,
approve of saying what I do not believe to be true. It is
proposed, that we should congratulate his Majesty upon the
Situation of our Affairs both Abroad and at Home. This I
cannot by any Means agree to, because I do not really think
that our Affairs are in the best Situation either Abroad or at
Home. Are not our Neighbours the French still going on
in fortifying and restoring the Harbour of Dunkirk, under
our very Nose, and contrary to the Faith of the most solemn
Treaties? We cannot now say that the French are our good
Allies; and by their Behaviour in this Particular, we may see
that we cannot much depend upon the Faith of any of the
Treaties now subsisting between us and them: Even this very
Affair we may, perhaps, in a little Time hear made Use of,
as an Argument for our keeping up a numerous Standing
Army in Time of Peace; and can we express a Satisfaction
at the present Situation of our Affairs, as long as there is
any Argument lest for keeping up a numerous Standing
Army in Time of Peace, which has always been thought so
inconsistent with the Constitution and Liberties of our
Country ?
'Have our Merchants as yet met with any Redress for
those Depredations committed upon them by the Spaniards?
Is not that Affair still delay'd and put off, notwithstanding
the most explicite Engagements enter'd into by the famous
Treaty of Seville? That Treaty which we have heard so
much applauded, and by which we enter'd into Engagements
of the greatest Consequence; on our Part it has been most
punctually perform'd, and yet our plunder'd Countrymen,
our Merchants, are still waiting for that Reparation, which
in Justice is due to them, which by the most solemn Engagements has been stipulated for them, and which was, I may
say, the only Stipulation in our Favour contain'd in that
Treaty. Shall we then say, that we are satisfy'd with the
present Situation of our Affairs, while the Cries and Complaints of our injur'd and unredressed Countrymen are dally
meeting us in every Corner of the Streets?
'Again, as to our Home Affairs, is not our Trade daily
decaying? Even our Staple Manufacture is almost quite
undone. There is scarcely any Sort of Trade in a thriving
Condition, but that in Change Adley; and there, Sir, there
are such abominable Frauds, and such wicked Impositions
daily practised, that many honest well meaning Men have
thereby been totally ruin'd and undone. Does not almost
every Session of Parliament open to us some new Scene of
Villainy and Roguery? These Calamities are almost universal, they do not fall upon single Persons, or upon a few,
but upon Multitutles at a Time; and these, for what I
know, may be owing, in some Measure, to some of those Persons who have in their Hands the Management of Publick
Affairs: It may be owing to their Neglect that Rogues are
thus enabled to dress up and manage such publick Scenes of
Knavery. While such fraudulent Practices are suffer'd, and
our Trade thereby so much injured, can we approach the
Throne, and say in such a solemn Manner, that we are satisfy'd with the Situation of our Affairs at Home? For my Part,
I am no Way satisfy'd with the present Situation of our
Affairs either Abroad or at Home, and therefore I must move
that these Words should be left out, or some Way alter'd.'
Mr Speaker.
Upon this Mr. Speaker stood up, and told Sir Thomas
Aston, 'That by the Orders of the House, and the constant
Forms of their Proceedings, the making of an Amendment
to any Part of a Motion, was an Approbation of every preceeding Part of that Motion; and as that Part of the Motion, which he proposed to amend, preceded that which the
House had agreed to amend, therefore they could not now
receive his Motion.' This last Motion was therefore dropp'd:
Then the Question was put upon the Motion made by Mr
Bromley, as amended by Sir John Barnard and Mr Shippen,
which was carry'd without any Division; and an Address was
drawn up and approv'd of by the House.
Jan. 18. The same was presented to his Majesty as follows:
The Address.
Most gracious Sovereign,
We your Majesty's most dutiful and loyal Subjects, the
Commons of Great Britain in Parliament assembled,
humbly beg Leave to return your Majesty our most sincere and hearty Thanks, for your most gracious Speach
from the Throne.
'The Situation of Affairs, both at Home and Abroad,
gives your faithful Commons the highest Satisfaction, and
fills their Hearts with the deepest Sense of Gratitude to
your Majesty, being fully sensible, that the present Happiness we enjoy is the entire Effect of your Majesty's Wisdom and Resolution.
'Such Supplies, as shall be necessary for the Honour,
Safety and Defence of your Majesty and your Kingdoms,
shall chearfully and effectually be raised by your faithful
Commons, with all possible Duty to your Majesty, and a
just Regard and Concern for those we represent.
'We also beg Leave to assure your Majesty, that in all
our Deliberations, as well in raising the Supplies, as in the
Distribution of the publick Revenues, we will pursue such
Measures, as will most conduce to the present and future
Ease of our Fellow Subjects, and such as, agreeably to your
Majesty's known Goodness and gracious Intentions towards
your People, and the constant Endeavours of your faithful
Commons, shall be consistent with the Honour and Justice
of Parliament, and with the Trade, Interest, and Liberty
of the Nation.'
'That our Proceedings may carry with them the Weight
and Credit, which always ought to attend the Resolutions
of the Commons of Great Britain; and that the necessary
Dispatch may be given to the Publick Business, we will use
our utmost Endeavours to avoid all unreasonable Heats and
Animosities, and not suffer ourselves to be diverted, by any
specious Pretences whatsoever, from stedfastly pursuing the
true Interest of our Country, which, in Pursuance of your
Majesty's most gracious Recommendation, from your great
Example, and our own indispensible Duty, shall upon all
Occasions be our first and principal Care.
To this Address his Majesty return'd the following Answer.
The King's Answer thereto.
Gentlemen,
"I Return you my Thanks for these dutiful Assurances of
your Zeal and Affection for me; and I make no
Doubt but that your Resolutions to pursue such Measures,
as will most conduce to the Ease and true Interest of all
my Subjects, will as effectually recommend you to the good
Opinion and Esteem of my People, as they are acceptable
to me.
Jan. 31. The House having no immediate Business before them, Mr Sandys stood up and spoke as follows:
Mr Sandys's Motion for bringing up the same Pension-Bill, which was pass'd last Session by the Commons, and rejected by the Lords.
Mr Speaker,
'As the House seems at present to be at Leisure, I shall
take the Opportunity to put them in Mind of a Bill, that for
two or three Sessions successively has passed in this House,
without any Opposition whatever, and has been as often
thrown out in the other. What their Reasons were in the
other House for so often throwing out such a Bill, I shall
not take upon me so much as to guess at; but I think it never
met with any real Opposition in this House: There were indeed some Gentlemen, who testified a Sort of a Dislike to the
Bill, but I think they never carried it so far as to form any
Argument against it, or to bring the Affair to a Debate. It
has been often remarked, that there never was, as yet, any
thing brought into either House of Parliament, that was really in itself useful and necessary for the publick Welfare, but
what, by a proper Perseverance, was at last carried through
and passed into a Law. Even a good Thing may, for a considerable Time, by many be mistaken; from private Passions
and Prejudices, for want of being rightly understood, it may
for some Time meet with Opposition, but Truth and Reason
will always at last prevail; and when we are fully convinced
of the Goodness and Usefulness of what is offered, it has
always hitherto been found, that a Sense of our Duty has in
both Houses of Parliament got the better of all other Passions,
which some Men might privately harbour in their Breasts.
This, Sir, encourages me to persevere in what I have so often
had the Honour to offer to this House, and to renew it again
this Session, notwithstanding its bad Fate in former Sessions
of Parliament. I am thoroughly convinced, that what I
have to offer, is not only a good Thing, but absolutely necessary for the Preservation of our Constitution; and therefore I hope it will, by its own Weight, at last force its Way
through the Opposition it has hitherto met with.
'I believe, Sir, every Gentleman in the House, by this
Time, supposes that I mean the Bill, For making more
effectual the Laws in being, for disabling Persons from being
chosen Members of, or Sitting or Voting in this House, who
have any Pension during Pleasure, or for any Number of
Years, or any Office held in Trust for them. This is the Bill
I propose to have renewed; and as this House has been fully
apprized of the Contents of the Bill, designed in former Sessions,
for these good and salutary Purposes, I have prepared a Bill
which I have here ready to offer to the House, and which is
the very same, Word for Word, with that which in the very
last Session of Parliament had the Approbation of this House;
I therefore think it quite unnecessary to move the House for
Leave to bring in such a Bill; but my Motion shall be for
Leave to bring up the Bill which I have now in my Hand.'
Mr Winnington's Objection to that Manner of Introducing the Pension-Bill. ; Debate thereon. ; Sir E. Stanley.
'Hereupon Mr Winnington observed, 'That the constant
Practice of the House, for an hundred Years past, has been
to move for a Bill to be brought in, and not for Leave to
bring it up to the Bar: That should this laudable Method
be broke into, and the ancient Custom reviv'd for each Member to present what he pleas'd, they might be surpriz'd
into Things very improper and inconsistent with the Dignity of the House: That therefore, though he had nothing
to say against the Bill, 'twas his Opinion the honourable
Gentleman's Motion ought not to be comply'd with: Then
to wave the Question, he call'd for the Order of the Day. Upon this Sir Edward Stanley, Knight of the Shire for Lancashire, spoke for the Motion, and declar'd, 'That he saw
nothing in it irregular; for that Leave to bring in a Bill,
or Leave to bring up a Bill, was in Effect the same Leave;
nor could he conceive wherein lay the mighty Difference.'
Sir W. Yonge.
Hereupon Sir William Yonge spoke as follows:
Mr. Speaker,
'I do not at all wonder to see the Gentleman who made
the first Motion, persevere in the same Thing; but I must confess I am a little surprized to see several State-Topicks every
Year renewed and insisted on by some Gentlemen in this
House, notwithstanding their having seen these Topicks so
often disapproved of by a Majority of the House. As to
these, I am really quite tired with hearing the same Arguments repeated over and over again every Session of Parliament: The honourable Gentleman should not have said, that
the Bill he mentioned had always passed, even in this House,
without Opposition; there were generally some Gentlemen
appear'd against it, and even testified their Dislike to it: But
let the Bill be what it will, let it be a good Thing, or let it
be a bad Thing, the Manner in which the Gentleman desires to have it introduced is very extraordinary. It is indeed a Privilege of the Members of the other House, that any
Lord may offer a Petition or a Bill to the House without asking Leave of the House; but this Privilege the Members of
this House have, for the Sake of Decency and Order, given
up long ago; and I can see no manner of Reason for our reassuming it, or for our beginning now to extend our Privileges beyond what they have been for so many Years past. As
to the bringing of Bills into this House, it is well known,
that the usual Motion on such Occasions is for Leave to bring
in such a Bill as is proposed; but this is a new Sort of Motion; it is a Motion for Leave to bring up such a Bill, which is
a very extraordinary Motion, and such as I am sure there is,
in the present Case, no manner of Occasion for, and therefore I really think the Motion ought to be rejected, it ought
to have a Negative put upon it; but since the worthy Gentleman near me [Mr Winnington] has waved that Point, and
has moved for the Order of the Day, I shall now only second
his Motion.'
Mr W. Plumer.
Mr Walter Plumer stood up next, and took Notice of
what Sir William Yonge had urg'd touching the same
Arguments being repeated every Session of Parliament, tho'
the Majority had often determined against them; and added, 'That whatever that Gentleman might think in that
Respect, it was his Opinion the Majority could not alter the
Nature of Right and Wrong; and for his Part, let the
Majority determine as often as they would, yet he should
always be ready to offer those Arguments, which he took
to be good ones, against such as he thought were not so:
As for the Gentleman's being afraid lest the Members of
this House should re-assume any ancient Privilege, or extend those they at present enjoy, he saw no Reason for his
being so cautious in that Respect, since what was proposed
was in Effect no Reassumption of any old Privilege; nor
Extension of any Privilege they enjoy'd, it was at most neglecting only a Piece of Form upon an extraordinary Occasion, when there appear'd no manner of Use in observing it.'
Then Sir William Wyndham spoke as follows:
Sir W. Wyndham.
Sir,
'I am surpriz'd to hear any Gentleman in this House
find Fault with Gentlemen insisting upon their Opinions, notwithstanding their having been disapproved of by a Majority in former Sessions of Parliament. I do not think that
the Majority's being of a contrary Opinion, can ever be
made Use of as an Argument for convincing Men that they
are in the wrong: The Minority, notwithstanding their being out-voted, may still have as good an Opinion of their
Opinions, as the Majority have of theirs. It has often happened, that what has been disapproved of by the Majority
in one Session of Parliament, has been approved of by a
Majority in some future, perhaps in the very next Session
of Parliament; and even as to the Bill now in Hand, it has
been two or three Times approv'd of by the Majority of this
House, and as often rejected or disapproved by the Majority
of the other House; what their Reasons were I do not
know, but I am of Opinion, that the same Reasons against
the Bill were not offered to the Members of this House, that
were offered to the Members of the other; for if they had,
it would probably have been disapproved of, and rejected by
the Majority even of this House. From hence it appears,
that the Majority's being of any one Opinion, is no infallible
Sign of that Opinion's being right. This, Sir, I thought myself obliged to take Notice of, that those Gentlemen, who
happen to be generally of the same Opinion with the Majority, may not from thence conclude that they are certainly
right. As to the Matter now in Dispute, I really think it
is of no Moment: Whether the Gentleman shall have Leave
to bring up the Bill, or to bring in a Bill, is to me a Matter
of so much Indifference, that I cannot find out a Reason why
the Gentleman's Motion should have been opposed; for to
order a Gentleman to prepare a Bill, after he has told us
that he has prepared one, and that it is the very same
with what the Majority of this House has in former Sessions approved of, really seems to me to be a little incongruous: I can find out no Reason for Gentlemen's insisting
upon this Piece of Incongruity, unless it be that they have
a Dislike to the Bill itself. We certainly ought in general
to observe the usual Method of Proceedings; but surely,
we ought not to observe any customary Method, when the
observing it appears to be in itself absurd.'
Sir J. Rushout.
Upon this Sir John Rushout declar'd, 'That he saw nothing
in the Motion either new or unprecedented: That he remembred there was a Bill presented in the House of late Years,
in the same or rather in a more extraordinary Manner, and
this was the last Suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act in
the late Reign; when the Gentleman who brought in that
Bill, sitting close at the Bar of the House, rose up, and after informing the House of the Danger the Crown and Kingdom were in from the rebellious Plots then carrying on, and
the Necessity of impowering his Majesty to secure all suspected Persons, he told them he had prepared a Bill for that
Purpose, and therefore moved for Leave to bring it up,
which was immediately granted; and the Bill, to the best
of his Memory, was read twice that Day, and ordered to
be committed: That this was something more extraordinary
than the Motion before them, because the Bill then ordered
to be brought up had never been before the House, and by
Consequence no Member could be any way appriz'd of the
Contents thereof; whereas the Bill in Question had been
before the House, and frequently had their Approbation:
That as for the Privilege inherent in every Member of this
House, he believ'd none would dispute but that the ancient
Method has been for any Member to offer what he pleases.'
Sir W. Yonge.
Hereupon Sir William Yonge stood up, and explained himself with regard to that Part of his Speech, which touched on
the Privilege of Members. He said, 'That there seem'd
to be a Mistake, as to what he had mentioned about the Members of the House not being allowed to bring in any Thing
without Leave of the House: That this has not properly any
Relation with what are called the Privileges of the House:
That it is only a Restraint which the Members of the House
have thought proper to lay on themselves, for the more orderly carrying on the Publick Business, and to prevent any
Thing that is trisling from being brought before us; and this
Restraint has been found so convenient and necessary for preserving the Honour and Dignity of the House, that it has
never for many Years been departed from, but upon the
most extraordinary Occasions.'
Sir R. Walpole. ; Mr Sandys.
Sir William Yonge was back'd by Sir Robert Walpole,
who added, 'That the Precedent quoted by Sir John Rushout was on one of the most extraordinary Occasions that
ever can happen, and in a Case that required the utmost Dispatch; That in short there was no Comparison between that
Case and the Case before them; That the Case of this Bill
did in no ways depend on this extraordinary Method; for
should the Gentleman move in the usual Manner for Leave
to bring in the Bill, and Orders should thereupon be given
by the House to some Gentlemen to prepare and bring in the
same, this Method would be no Hindrance to the passing of
the Bill, or occasion its being put off 'till the next Session of
Parliament.' Upon this Mr Sandys rose up, and spoke a second Time as follows;
Sir,
'I shall be very far from making any Comparisons between the Case in Hand, or between any Case, and that
which immediately concerns the Safety and Preservation of
the Crown: But, as I had assured you that the Bill, which
I have in my Hand, was the very same with that which had
before been approved of by this House, I thought it was
quite unnecessary for the House to observe that Ceremony of
ordering some Gentlemen to prepare and bring in a Bill, which
was already prepared; and which the House has approved of
in the very last Session of Parliament: This was my Reason
for moving for Leave to bring it up. I do not desire to bring
any Thing into this House without first having the Leave of
the House for so doing; yet I cannot think, that though
the antient Method of proceeding were revived, the House
would be in any Danger of being surprized into any Thing:
There is no Bill can pass in this House 'till it has been three
Times read in the House, and has passed thro' a Committee
of the House; and while those Forms are observed, the House
never can be surprized into the passing of any Bill, even
though we should again re-assume that Privilege of every
Member's having a Power to bring into the House whatever
he pleases. It is not the Restraint we have laid ourselves
under, that prevents the House's being surprized; it is the
Necessity of having the Bill so often read before it can pass;
for when a Gentleman has moved for Leave to bring in any
Bill for the Purposes he mentions, the House cannot know
whether the Bill prepared and brought in be according to
their Orders till it be once read in the House: Some Gentlemen might move for Leave to bring in a Bill, and upon
their obtaining such Leave, and being ordered to prepare and
bring in the same, might bring in a Bill of a quite different
Nature; but this would probably be discover'd on the first
Reading, and the Bill would without Doubt be thrown out;
and whoever endeavoured thus to impose on the House, would
deserve, and would probably meet with a most severe Censure.
'But the present Dispute is not whether any Thing shall be
brought into the House without Leave; the whole Dispute
really seems to be between the Words to bring up, and the
Words to bring in; for my Part, I am quite indifferent in this
Affair; whether I have Leave to bring it up now, or to
bring it in a little while hence, does not, in my Opinion,
signify much; if I have Leave to bring it up, I must immediately take a Walk to the Bar; if I have Leave to bring in
a Bill, and am order'd to prepare one for that Purpose, I
shall take a Walk the same Way in a very little Time; this
I do not take to be any material Difference: But as for the
Bill itself, I do think it of such Consequence, that if there
were any Method by which we could shew a more than ordinary Regard to this Bill, that Method ought certainly to be
observed.'
A Precedent relating to the bringing up a Bill, read by Mr Speaker.
Then Mr Speaker read, from the Journal of the House of
the 9th Year of the Reign of King George I. the Precedent mention'd by Sir John Rushout, and said,
Gentlemen,
The usual Method of Proceeding in this House, as to
bringing in of Bills is, first, to move for Leave to bring
in a Bill for such or such Purposes, and that being agreed to,
the House then orders some of their own Number to prepare
and bring in the Bill; this is the usual Method, but in the
Precedent I have now read to you it appears, that the then
Solicitor General [Sir P. Yorke.] moved for Leave to bring
up such a Bill, which was granted, and be immediately
brought up the Bill, and the same was read a first Time;
from which it is plain that Mr Solicitor, when he made his
Motion, inform'd the House that he had prepared such a Bill,
and had it then ready to be laid before them, and therefore
be moved for Leave to bring it up, which it seems the House
at this Time comply'd with.
Upon this some Members suspecting that Mr Speaker was,
in Pursuance of this Precedent, going to put the Question
on the Motion made by Mr. Sandys, they call'd out, No,
No. Hereupon Mr Speaker immediately resum'd his
Speech, as follows.
Gentlemen,
At to the Affair in Hand, or any Affair that comes before
this House, I am not to appear of one Side of the Question
nor of the other. It is my Business to take Care that the
Orders and Methods of Proceeding shall be regularly observed.
In all Questions about Order I am to inform you, so far as
consists with my Knowledge, of what has been formerly done
in the like Cases; and I am to take Care that all Decency
and Order shall be observed, both in our Debates and Proceedings: This is my Duty, and this I shall always endeavour to perform as far as lies in my Power: In all Cases I
am to observe those Directions that the House shall be pleased
to give; and in the present Case I only desire to know from
you, what Method you will observe, whether you are inclin'd
to follow the Precedent now read to you, or if you are inclined to proceed according to the Method usually observed: But
I must put you in Mind, that if you proceed according to the
usual Method, Decency requires that the Bill shall not be
brought in immediately after the Order for preparing and
bringing in the same; it is necessary that some Time should intervene between the Order for preparing it, and the Presenting of it to the House; and therefore I must desire; that those
Gentlemen who shall be order'd to prepare and bring it in, may
not go immediately to the Bar, and tell us, that they have, according to Order, prepared such a Bill, and are ready to bring
it in.
Mr Sandys drops his Motion for bringing us the Pension-Bill. ; And Instead thereof a Bill to the same Effect is order'd to be brought in.
Hereupon Mr Sandys not insisting on his Motion, but
agreeing to have the Bill brought in according to the usual
Method, the Question was put, That Leave be given to bring
in a Bill, For making more effectual the Laws in Being for
disabling Persons from being chosen Members of, or sitting or
voting in, the House of Commons, who have any Pension during Pleasure, or for any Number of Years, or any Offices held
in Trust for them; This being agreed to without any Opposition, Mr Sandys and Sir Edward Stanley were order'd to
prepare and bring in the same. Then the House resolv'd
itself into a Committee of the Supply, and as soon as that
was over; Mr Sandys presented the said Bill to the House,
which was received and read the first Time, and order'd to
be read a second Time.
Debate concerning the Number of Land-Forces, ; Mr Andrews.
February. 2. The House resolv'd itself into a Committee,
to consider farther of the Supply granted to his Majesty, and
Mr (fn. 1) Andrews, Member for Hindon, moved, 'That the Number of effective Men to be provided for Guards and Garrisons in Great Britain, and for Guernsey and Jersey, for the
Year 1733, be, including 1815 Invalids, and 555 Men,
which the Six Independent Companies consist of, for the
Service of the Highlands, 17,709 Men, Commission and
Non-Commission Officers included.
This Motion was seconded by Mr Whitworth, Member
for Minehead; and supported by Sir Thomas Robinson,
Member for Morpeth; Sir Richard Lane, Member for
Worcester; Sir Archer Croft, Member for Beeralston; Sir
William Yonge, Hon. Mr Henry Pelham, Mr Horatio Walpole, and Sir Robert Walpole: But was very warmly oppos'd by several Members; and the Lord Morpeth thereupon
mov'd, 'That the Number of effective Men for the Year
1733, be only 12,000; he was seconded by Mr Harley,
Member for the County of Hereford; and back'd by Mr
Bramston, Member for Malden; Mr Rolle, Knight of the
Shire for Devonshire; Sir John Barnard, Sir Joseph Jekyll,
Mr Shippen, Sir William Wyndham, Mr Palmer, Member for Bridgewater; Mr Thomas Wyndham, Hon. Mr Edward Digby, Knight of the Shire for Warwick; Mr Pulteney,
Sir John St. Aubin, Knight of the Shire for Cornwall; Sir
Thomas Saunderson, Knight of the Shire for Lincoln; and Sir
John Hinde Cotton, Member for Cambridge. The Courtiers
urg'd in Support of the Motion, ' That tho' the publick
Tranquility of Europe was now established, yet the Preservation thereof depended on so many Accidents, that it could
not be certainly rely'd on, and therefore we ought always to
be in such Circumstances, as to be able not only to defend
ourselves, but likewise to fulfil all our Engagements to our
Allies: That there was still a very powerful and considerable
Party in the Kingdom, firmly attach'd to the Interest of the
Pretender, and daily watching for an Opportunity to disturb
the Quiet of the Nation, by endeavouring to overturn the
present happy Establishment; and therefore it was necessary
to keep up an armed Force sufficient to dissipate any sudden
Insurrection that might be raised by such Men: That this
Party was still the more audacious, and the more to be
dreaded, because they were encouraged and spirited up by a
great many scandalous and seditious Libels, which were daily
spread abroad, even by those who pretended to be Friends to
the Protestant Succession, and to the illustrious Family now
on the Throne.' Sir Archer Croft said on this Occasion,
'That the continuing of the same Number of Forces was the
more necessary, because to his Knowledge Popery was increasing very fast in the Country, for that in one Parish
which he knew, there were no less than seven Popish Priests;
and that the Danger from the Pretender was the more to be
feared, because they did not know but that he was then
breeding his Son a Protestant.' Then Sir Robert Walpole
took Notice, 'That a Reduction of the Army was the chief
Thing wished for and desired by all the Jacobites in the
Kingdom; that no Reduction had ever been made, but what
gave fresh Hopes to that Party, and encouraged them to
raise Tumults against the Government; and he did not
doubt, but that if they should resolve to reduce any Part of
the Army, there would be Post-Horses employ'd that very
Night, to carry the good News thereof to the Pretender and
his Adherents beyond Seas.' To this Mr Horatio Walpole
added, 'That the Number of Troops then proposed was
absolutely necessary to support his Majesty's Government,
and would be necessary, as long as the Nation enjoy'd the
Happiness of having the present illustrious Family on the
Throne.'
Sir W. Wyndham.
Sir William Wyndham alledg'd, in Support of Lord Morpeth's Motion, 'That if they gave any Credit to his Majesty's
Speech from the Throne at the Opening of the Session, which
they were in Duty bound to do, the Tranquility of Europe
never was, nor ever could be on a more firm Basis than
at present, and therefore a Reduction was now to be
made in the Army, or such Reduction was never to be expected: That as to the Pretender, he did not believe that there
was any considerable Party for him in this Nation: That
that Pretence had always been a Ministerial Device made
use of only for accomplishing their own Ends; but that it
was in reality a meer Bugbear, a Raw-Head and BloodyBones, fit only to frighten Children; for that he was very
well convinced his Majesty reigned in the Hearts and Affections of his People; upon that his Majesty's Security depended; and if it did not depend on that, the illustrious
Family now on the Throne could have but little Security in
the present Number, or in any Number of Standing-Forces,
that could be kept up for its Defence: That if there was
any Disaffection, or any Discontent in the Nation, it was
owing to the keeping up of such a numerous Standing Army
in Time of Peace within this Kingdom, whereby the People
were subjected to many Loads and Hardships which they
were never before acquainted with: That the People of England had never gone into any violent Measures, or carry'd
their Resentment to any Pitch against the Prince upon the
Throne, but when the Prince, or those employ'd by him,
were first in the Fault: That this Maxim was so generally
true, that in our whole History, there was no Instance to the
contrary, but only that which happen'd in the Reign of
King Charles I. and that therefore, if there was any Uneasiness among the People, the proper Remedy was, to remove those Things which were the Causes thereof: If the
Ministers should change their Measures, the People would
certainly alter their Minds: That the Dutch were, by the
Situation of their Country, in a much more dangerous State
than we are or can be in, and yet the Dutch had then resolved on a Reduction of their Army, and therefore we
could have no Pretence for continuing ours.'
Mr Shippen.
Mr Shippen likewise observ'd, 'That though the general Arguments in the Affair before them had often been
canvassed in that House, yet, that the Debate of this Day
seem'd to him something new: In former Years the Gentlemen, who argued for the Continuance of a numerous Standing Army in Time of Peace, always argu'd for the Continuance thereof only for one Year longer; but that Gentleman had now thrown off the Mask, and were become daring
enough to declare, 'That the same Number of Forces must
always be kept up; and that a numerous Army must for
ever be continu'd, and be made, as it were, a Part of our
Constitution:' That we have already continu'd the Army so
long, that some Gentlemen had told the House this Day,
what no Man would have ventur'd to have told them a few
Years ago: That if they continued the same Army but a
little while longer, it might be in the Power of some Gentlemen to talk to the House, in Terms no Way agreeable to
the Constitution or to the Liberties of our Country: That to
tell the House that the same Number of Forces must be always
kept up, was a Proposition fraught with innumerable Evils,
and more particularly with this, that it may make wicked
Ministers more audacious, than otherwise they would be, in
projecting and propagating Schemes, which may be inconsistent with the Liberties, destructive to the Trade, and burthensome on the People of this Nation: That in Countries
which are governed by Standing Armies, the Inclinations of
the People are but little minded, the Ministers place their
Security in the Army, the Humours of the Army they only
consult, with them they divide the Spoils, and the wretched
People are plunder'd by both.' He added, 'That in this
Kingdom, his Majesty has the Hearts, the Hands, and the
Purses of all his Subjects at his Service, and he wish'd he
might have them always at his Service; but he hoped they
would never be in his Power; That his Majesty desired no
such Thing; That he never can desire it; That he depends
only on the Affections of his People; That therefore he was
convinced, that the Demand of so numerous a Standing Army
never could come from him: That it was no Way necessary
for his Support, whatever it might be for the Support of
those who now desired to have it continued.' Mr Rolle said,
'To him it appear'd, in order to preserve ourselves against one
who might perhaps prove a Tyrant, we were going to establish 18,000 Tyrants, and to make their Establishment in
some Measure a Part of our Constitution: And that in order
to be free of a Religion which we think a bad one, we are
resolved to have none at all: That as to the Party which the
Pretender had in this Nation, he could not believe there
was any such Thing: It was nothing but a mere Pretence,
and the making Use of that Pretence on all Occasions, really
could not but make him recall to Mind that wicked and
blasphemous Saying of Pope Leo X. who, on Occasion of a
Procession's passing by while he was at an elegant Entertainment, said to his Cardinals, Quantum prosuit Nobis bæc Fabula
Christi! He concluded with these Words: Let us do as
our Forefathers used to do, Let us remove the Wicked from
before the King, that so his Throne may be establish'd in
Righteousness.' Mr Pulteney said, 'That he could not but
be diverted with some Arguments that were then, and had
been on former Occasions made Use of, for keeping up a
Standing Army in Time of Peace: That the last Year the House
was told, that a Popish Solicitor was a dangerous Man to the
Government, [See p. 123.] and now that Popish Solicitor had
spawn'd out seven Popish Priests, [See p. 268.] and even the
Post-Horses [See p. 269.] had join'd in this traiterous Confederacy.'
In Answer to the Argument brought from the Reduction
of the Dutch Forces, Mr Pelham declar'd, 'That the
Reduction mention'd was not then agreed to by the States
General: That it was a great Question whether it would
or no, and if it should, it was only a Reduction of the last
Augmentation, whereas the last Augmentation had been reduced by us long ago; so that the Dutch were now only
going to make that Reduction, which we had made upon the
first Prospect we had of seeing the Tranquility of Europe
establish'd: That tho' the Reduction proposed in Holland
should be made by them, yet they would still have in Proportion a much greater Number of Standing Forces, than
what was now proposed to be kept up in this Kingdom.' Sir
Robert Walpole added, ' That he could not help taking Notice of an Observation one Gentleman had made, as to the
People's never carrying their Resentment to any Pitch against
the Prince upon the Throne, unless the Prince, or those employ'd by him, were first guilty of some Fault: That that
Member was pleased to admit of one Exception to this Rule,
in the Case of King Charles I. But the Gentleman ought
to have admitted of another Exception, and that was in the
Time of King George I. That he did not know what Pitch
of Resentment the Gentleman might mean, but he was sure
there were some People, who carry'd their Resentment against
that King to a very high Pitch; and it could not be said that
he was ever guilty of any Fault, nor that those employ'd by
him had, then at least, been guilty of any Fault; yet some
people carried their Resentment so high, that they appear'd
in Arms, in order to dethrone him; That he thank'd God,
they did not succeed in their Attempt: That they happen'd
to be defeated by the small Number of Regular Forces we
had then in the Kingdom, which were much inferior to them
in Number; such was our great good Luck at that Time;
but that he must say, That those Gentlemen, who desired
to have the Country left as void of Defence as it was at that
Time, could have but little Regard for our present happy
Constitution, or for the Security of the illustrious Family
now upon the Throne.'
Then the Question being put on the Motion made by
Mr Andrews, it was agreed to by 239 against 171.
Mr W. Williams Wynne's Motion for recommitting the Resolution of the Committee relating to the Land-Forces. ; Debate thereon.
Feb. 5. The above Resolution of the Committee was reported to the House, and thereupon Mr Warkin-Williams
Wynne, Knight of the Shire for Denbigh, mov'd for the
recommitting of that Resolution; which Motion was seconded by Mr William Bromley, Member for Warwick; and
supported by Sir John St Aubin, Mr Sandys, Sir Wilfrid
Lawson, Mr William Gwyn Vaughan, Mr Heathcote, and
Mr Wyndham. They were oppos'd by Lord Hervey, Lord
Malpas, Mr Danvers, Mr Clutterbuck, Sir Philip Yorke,
and Col. Bladen. In this Debate Mr Clutterbuck having
said, 'That he wonder'd to see Gentlemen so jealous of
Encroachments upon our Constitution, at a Time when it
was in its greatest Vigour, and shone forth in its purest Lustre;'
Mr Wyndham, in answer thereto, gave the House an historical Account of our Constitution, and of the several Dangers it had been in, and the Changes it had gone through;
and from thence he shew'd, 'That it was very far from being
now in its greatest Vigour, and that on the contrary, there
were many bad Customs had crept in of late, which were of
dangerous Consequence to our Constitution; and might prove
to be the Cause of its Overthrow, if some effectual Remedy
was not speedily apply'd.'
The Resolution of the Committee agreed to by the House.
Then the Question being put, for recommitting the above mentioned Resolution of the Committee, it was carried in
the Negative, by 207 against 143; after which the said
Resolution was agreed to by the House.
Lord Morpeth moves for an Address to the King, to reduce the Land-Force on the first Opportunity. ; Debate thereon.
Then the Lord Morpeth stood up, and represented the
bad Circumstances of the Nation, by reason of the great
Debts and the many Taxes the People groan'd under, and
therefore mov'd, 'That an humble Address be presented to
his Majesty, to desire his Majesty, that he would be graciously pleased, from his earnest Desire to ease his People of
every Charge not absolutely necessary, and his Regard to the
Constitution of this Kingdom, to take the first favourable
Opportunity of making a Reduction of those Forces, which
this House hath voted in pursuance of the Estimate laid be
fore them by his Majesty's Direction.' His Lordship was
seconded by Mr Sandys, Sir William Wyndham, Mr
Pulteney, Mr Shippen, and Mr Heathcote, who urg'd,
'The great Necessity that there was for taking all Opportunities to reduce the publick Expence; that thereby some of
those Taxes might be taken off, which at present lay so
heavy on our Trade and our Manufactures, that most of our
Neighbours were enabled to undersell us in foreign Markets:
That the keeping up of a Standing-Army in Time of Peace,
without any absolute Necessity for so doing, was altogether
inconsistent with the Liberties of this Nation: That tho'
there might be at present an absolute Necessity for keeping
up the Number of Forces agreed to by that House, yet that
that Necessity might cease in a few Months, perhaps in a
few Weeks; and if so, it would then become necessary both
for the Ease of the Nation, and for the Preservation of the
Constitution, to disband some of then. That though the
King was always to be presumed to be thoroughly acquainted
with the Circumstances of the Nation, and always inclined
to do that which might most contribute to the publick Welfare; yet it had always been the Custom of that House,
and was their Duty, to address the King upon Matters of very
great Consequence; in order to recommend to his Majesty
those Measures which they thought would conduce most to
the Happiness and Safety of the Nation.' But this Motion
was oppos'd by Mr Talbot, Lord Hervey, Mr Henry Pelham,
and Sir Robert Walpole, who alledg'd, 'That the Presenting of such an Address was in some Measure inconsistent
with the Resolution they had then agreed to: That it was resolving that the Number of Forces for the Year 1733 should
be so many; and addressing that they should not be so many:
That these two Resolutions, following one another upon their
Journals, would appear to be very extraordinary: That besides, the Presenting of such an Address would be disrespectful to his Majesty, in so far as it would be a Sort of Insinuation that his Majesty might neglect taking the first Opportunity of reducing the Army, and thereby lessening the
publick Charge; and as they never yet had the least Occasion to suspect any such Thing, it would be now unjust to
harbour any such Suspicion: That in many Cases it might
be the Custom, it might be the Duty of that House, to address the Throne on particular Emergencies; but in a Case
that regarded his Majesty and his Administration in such a
general Manner, as the Case in Hand did, it would be most
disrespectful: That they might as well address his Majesty to
govern according to Law, or not to encroach upon the Constitution; and an Address in such Terms would, they believ'd, be
allow'd to be shewing a very high Disrespect to the King
upon the Throne.' Mr Shippen, on the other Hand, insisted, 'That his Majesty knew how much the Nation was
loaded with Debts and Taxes, and how inconsistent it was
with our Constitution to keep up a Standing-Army in Time
of Peace, and that therefore his Majesty, he was sure, would
not look on their Presenting of such an Address as any Way
disrespectful to him.' Some Members having taken Offence
at these Expressions Mr Shippen reply'd, 'That he could
not but look on himself as a very unfortunate Man, for that
in the late Reign he had incurr'd the Displeasure of many
Gentlemen, and had undergone a severe Censure of that
House, for saying that it was one of the greatest Misfortunes of his late Majesty's Reign, that he did not know our
Language, and was unacquainted with our Constitution; [See
Vol. I. p. 157.] and that now he had disobliged several
others, by saying that his present Majesty well knows the
Circumstances of the Nation, and is acquainted with our
Constitution: But that, however, he could not help thinking
but that his Majesty was thoroughly acquainted with both; and
that therefore he would look upon such an Address, as proceeding from that honest Care and Concern, which every
Member ought to have for those who sent them thither,
and not as proceeding from any Disrespect towards him: That
his Majesty could not be displeased therewith, and that those
they represented must be highly pleased to see the House so
watchful of all Opportunities to lessen their Charge, and to
recommend their Ease and Advantage to the Crown.' But
the Question being put on the Lord Morpeth's Motion, it
was carried in the Negative, by 203 against 136.
Motion for raising the Supply for the current Year, without creating a new Debt on any of the Funds.
Feb. 7. Being the Day on which the House was, according
to Order, to resolve itself into a Committee to consider of
Ways and Means for raising the Supply granted to his Majesty; a Motion was made, 'That this House will raise the
necessary Supplies for the current Service of this Year, without creating any new Debt upon any Fund whatsoever.' But
upon the Question's being put, it was carried in the Negative.
Feb. 13. The Affair of the Spanish Depredations having
given great Uneasiness to the whole Nation, Sir Wilfrid
Lawson rose up, and spoke as follows:
Sir Wilf. Lawson's Motion for an Address to the King, to know what Satisfaction had been made by the Spaniards to the British Merchants. ; Debate thereon.
Sir,
'The many and great Losses our Merchants have sustained by the Depredations committed on them by the Spaniards,
are, I believe, well known to every Gentleman in this House;
and it is likewise known, that by the second separate Article
of the Treaty of Seville, all those Affairs were to have been
settled and adjusted in the Space of three Years: These
three Years are now expired, but I do not find that any Body
knows how any of those Affairs have been settled and adjusted, at least I cannot hear of any one of our Merchants
who has met with any Redress.
'As the Time is now expir'd, I hope our Merchants have
already got, or are very soon to receive a sufficient Reparation for all their Sufferings; this I hope for, and I should be
extreamly glad to have my Hopes confirmed; it is an Affair
on which the Happiness of many private Men depends, and
is of so much Consequence both to the Honour and Trade
of this Nation, that it is incumbent upon us, as Members
of this House, to inquire into it; and therefore I shall move,
That an humble Address be presented to his Majesty, that he
will be graciously pleased to give Direction, that there may
be laid before this House, Copies of the Reports made by
his Majesty's Commissaries in Spain, together with all Letters
and Papers relating thereto; and what Satisfaction has been
made to the Subjects of Great-Britain, for the Losses they
sustained by the Depredations of the Spaniards in Europe, or
in the Indies, pursuant to the second separate Article of the
Treaty of Peace, Union, Friendship, and mutual Defence,
between the Crowns of Great-Britain, France, and Spain,
concluded at Seville on the 9th of November, 1729.'
Sir R. Walpole.
This Motion being seconded, Sir Robert Walpole stood
up and spoke as follows:
Mr Speaker,
'Such an Address as has been moved for, may, if Gentlemen insist on it, be presented to his Majesty, but I can
now assure you, that there is as yet nothing that his Majesty
can lay before you; for though by the Treaty of Seville the
Commissaries of the two Nations were to settle all the Affairs, referred to them by that Treaty, within the Space of
three Years from the Date thereof, yet, by Reason of several
unforeseen Accidents, they never could meet so as to enter
upon, or do any Business till the Month of February last:
Since that Time they have been proceeding upon the Affairs
referred to them; but as yet there is nothing brought to that
Maturity, or formed into such a Shape, as to be proper to
be laid before this House. The Delays they at first met with
made it necessary to prolong the Time for settling and adjusting those Matters, and therefore it has been agreed between
the two Nations, that the three Years shall be computed from
that Day in February last, on which the Commissaries first
met; and by that Time it is to be hoped that all those Affairs
will be settled in such a Manner, as will give full Satisfaction
to every Member of this House, and full Reparation to every
one of the Subjects of Great-Britain, who has met with a
real Injury from the Spaniards.'
To this Mr Pulteney replied,
Mr W. Pulteney.
Sir,
'There is a Term made use of in the Exchequer, called
Nichil, which Term has been sometimes made use of by the
Gentleman who spoke last, and has often been given as an
Answer to this House, when Accounts of the Produce of
some certain Branches of the Revenue have been called for.
Now as to the present Affair, it may be that there has not
as yet been any Thing done, or at least not brought to Maturity, and formed into such a Shape, as to be proper to be
laid before this House: This, I say, may be the Case,
though I must say it is a little surprizing, that in so long a
Time there should have been nothing done; however, supposing that it is the Case, yet his Majesty may give us this
Exchequer-Term for Answer; he may tell us that there has
not as yet been any Thing done: It is from his Majesty only, that this House can properly have an Answer; even such
an Answer we are not to take from any Member of this
House, or from any Subject whatsoever. And as the Presenting of such an Address to his Majesty, will shew our Constituents that we are careful of the Affairs of the Nation,
and have a Concern for the Merchants, who have been so
great Sufferers by the Depredations committed by the Spaniards; therefore I am for agreeing with the Motion.'
Sir T. Aston.
Mr Pulteney was back'd by Sir Thomas Aston as follows:
Sir,
'If in all this Time there has been nothing done by
those Commissaries, I am much afraid that this Affair may
be spun out to a very great Length. I do not know but
that it may last as long as the Gentlemen who are employed
as our Commissaries may live; for as they have thereby a
good Salary from, and all their Charges borne by their
Country, they may not perhaps be too hasty in concluding
the Affairs referred to them, and thereby putting an End to
the beneficial Post they enjoy; and on the other Hand it is
to be presumed, that the Spaniards will make use of all the
Excuses they can invent, for delaying their making that Reparation, which in Justice they ought to do, and which we
are engaged in Honour to insist on. It is therefore our Duty, as Members of this House, to desire from Time to Time
to know what is doing in an Affair, in which both the Interest
and the Honour of the Nation is so much concerned, in order to prevent all unnecessary Delays, and to satisfy the
World that this Nation does not tamely put up such Injuries.'
Mr Conduit.
Hereupon Mr Conduit (fn. 2) replied to Sir Thomas Aston:
Sir,
'I find there is a very great Mistake in Prejudice to the
worthy Gentlemen our Commissaries in Spain: I must do
them the Justice to declare, that to my Knowledge they very
much despise the Salaries they have from the Publick,
and are pushing as much as possible the Accommodation
of all the Affairs referred to them, in order that they may
return home to look after their private Affairs. I am very
sure that there is not one of those Gentlemen, who, for the
Sake of the Salary would have gone out of the Kingdom, or
who would stay one Month in Spain, or any where, for the
Sake of enjoying so trifling a Benefit. It was the Hopes only of being serviceable to their Country, that prevailed on
any of them to go thither, and they are doing as much as
lies in their Power to render their Service as beneficial as
possible to their Country; the sooner that Affair is brought
to a Conclusion, the more beneficial will their Service certainly be. This I know to be the Case as to the Gentlemen
that are employed, but if it were otherwise, his Majesty
could certainly take Care, that no unnecessary Delays should
be allowed in an Affair of such Consequence, and certainly
will lay before this House an Account of all the Proceedings in that Affair as soon as it can be conveniently done;
and therefore I must be of Opinion, that there is no Occasion for our presenting any such Address as has been
moved for.'
Mr W. Pulteney.
To this Mr Pulteney answered,
Sir,
'We may always depend on it, that his Majesty will take
all possible Care of this, as well as of every other Affair that
regards the Honour or the Happiness of the Nation; but in
all Affairs his Majesty must employ others under him, he
must necessarily employ Ministers and other inferior Agents,
to transact and manage the publick Affairs of the Nation;
and as they may be dilatory or negligent, therefore it is the
Duty, and has always been the Practice of this House, to inquire into the Management of Affairs of great Consequence.
In the present Case I am for the Address proposed, because
it will be a Spur to the Ministers, to procure as speedy and
as ample a Satisfaction to our injured Merchants, as they can
possibly get. Our having taken Notice, in the last Session of
Parliament, of the Spanish Depredations, procured, I believe,
those Commissions and Instructions, which were last Summer
sent to his Majesty's Ships of War in the West Indies: That,
I believe, was the chief Cause of sending some of our Ships
to the Spanish Coast to demand Satisfaction for English Merchant-Ships, which they had violently taken, and unjustly
confiscated. One of these Captains did accordingly, in Pursuance of the Instructions he had received, send his Boat with
his Lieutenantand some of his Sailors on Shore, to demand the
Satisfaction proposed; but the Spaniards were so far from
complying with so just a Demand, that they added a new Affront, by making the Lieutenant and the Men Prisoners;
whereupon he, like a brave, honest, downright English Captain, did what he ought to do, he seized the first Spanish
Ship he could meet with; but I have been since informed,
that this Spanish Ship has been restored, tho' the English Ship
has neither been restored, nor have the Owners met with any
Satisfaction for the Damage and Loss they have sustained.
How this came about, how we came to restore this Ship to
them, before they had agreed to release our Ship, is more
than I know, or can comprehend; for as they had done the
first Injury, they ought, in my Opinion, to have been obliged
to have made the first Reparation. As to the Gentlemen
that are employ'd as our Commissaries in Spain, I do not
know whether they despise their Salaries or not, but I am
sure, if they continue as long in Spain as one Gentleman
seems apprehensive they may, it will verify what I said in
this House in relation to those Affairs, that it would have
been better for the Nation, and more to the Satisfaction of
the Sufferers, to have given up the Affair at first, and to have
given the Sum of Money, which such Commission might have
cost the Publick, to be divided among our Merchants, who
had been robbed and plunder'd by the Spaniards; for
even as it is, I am afraid that if the Charges which that
Commission has already, and will stand the Publick in, were
to be deducted from the Sum, which we may recover from
the Spaniards by Way of Reparation, there will very little
remain to be divided among the Sufferers.'
Sir R. Walpole. ; Mr Plumer.
Mr Pulteney having done speaking, Sir Robert Walpole
observ'd, 'That wherever that honourable Gentleman got
his Information, in relation to the Restitution of the Spanish
Ship he made Mention of, to his Knowledge it was erroneous, for that at the same Time Orders were sent from hence
for releasing the Spanish Ship, Orders were in like Manner
sent from the Court of Spain, for releasing and restoring the
English Ship and Cargo, which they had before taken; and
that her not being restored was no Neglect, either at this or
the Spanish Court, but owing to the Excuses and Delays of
his Catholick Majesty's Governors in the West-Indies; who,
notwithstanding express Orders from their Court for delivering up the Ship and Cargo, had found some new Pretences
for delaying it.' To this Mr Plumer reply'd, 'That if the
Case was, as the honourable Gentleman who spoke last was
pleased to assure them, he could not but with Pleasure observe, 'That if ever a War should happen between Spain and
us, we must certainly get the better of them; for that our
Governors and Officers in the West-Indies are, it seem'd,
most punctual and exact in observing and obeying the Orders
and Instructions received from hence, even tho' they may
be perhaps not much to their own private Liking; whereas
on the other Hand it appear'd, that his Catholick Majesty's
Governors and Officers in those Parts had but little Regard
to the express Orders they received from him; that King,
it seem'd, having no Authority over his own Officers; and
consequently in Case of a War between us, we should have a
very considerable Advantage over that Nation.'
An Address agreed on.
At last the Question being put on Sir Wilfrid Lawson's
Motion, it was agreed to without any Division; and the Address was accordingly presented.
The King's Answer thereto.
Feb. 16. Sir Conyers D'Arcey (fn. 3) reported his Majesty's
Answer to the said Address, viz. "That although by the
Treaty of Seville, the Commissaries on the Part of Great
Britain and Spain were to meet within four Months after
the Exchange of the Ratification of that Treaty, and
their Commissions to continue for three Years from the
Date of the said Treaty; and altho' his Majesty's Commissaries were appointed on the 2d of April 1730, yet by
several unforeseen Accidents, the Meeting of the Commissaries in Spain was so long delay'd, that the first Conferences were not open'd 'till the 23d of February 1732,
N. S. And that as so much Time was elapsed before the
opening of their Commissions, it has been since agreed between the two Crowns, that the three Years, for finishing
the Commission of the said Commissaries, shall be computed from their first Meeting on the 23d of Feb. last;
which makes it impracticable for his Majesty to give the
proper Orders, for laying a perfect Account before this
House, of what is desired in their Address."