April 7th. Mr. Speaker reported that the House attended
his Majesty yesterday with their Resolution and Address of
the 30th of March last; to which his Majesty was pleased to
give this most gracious Answer, viz.
His Majesty's Answer to the said Address.
Gentlemen,
I Am fully sensible of the many and unwarrantable Depredations committed by the Spaniards; and you may
be assured, I will make use of the most proper and effectual Means, that are in my Power, to procure Justice
and Satisfaction to my injured Subjects, and for the future
Security of their Trade and Navigation. I can make no
Doubt, but you will support me, with Chearfulness, in all
such Measures, as, in Pursuance of your Advice, I may
be necessitated to take, for the Honour of my Crown
and Kingdoms, and the Rights of my People."
Debate upon the Petition of the Needle Button Makers.
The next Debate we shall give an Account of, is that
upon the Petition of the Manufacturers of Raw Silk and
Mohair, and of Needle-work Buttons, which was presented
to the House, March 3, and set forth,
'That Raw Silk and Mohair, employed in making Button-holes, being Commodities that are purchased in Turkey, and other foreign Parts, in Exchange for the Woollen
and other Manufactures in the Kingdom; the Parliament,
for the greater Encouragement of the Consumption of the
said Commodities, had passed an Act, in the Seventh of
his late Majesty, intitled, An Act for employing the Manufacturers, and encouraging the Consumption of Raw
Silk and Mobair, by prohibiting the wearing of Buttons
and Button-holes made of Cloth, Serge, and other Stuffs.
In Consequence of which, and other Acts of the like Tendency, many Thousands of Families were preparing Silk,
Mohair, Yarn, and Thread employed in making of Buttons and Button-holes with the Needle. But that in Evasion, and contrary to the Intention of the said Act, great
Quantities of Stuffs made of Horse-hair, or mixed therewith, have been lately wove in narrow Breadths or Slips,
and used only for making and binding of Buttons and
Button-holes, to the great Detriment and Impoverishing
of many Thousands, who had no other Way of subsisting
but by working of Buttons and Button-holes with the
Needle, and Prejudice of the Woollen Manufactures of
the Kingdom. And therefore the Petitioners prayed that
the House would give Leave that a Bill be brought in, to
explain the said Act, and that the Petitioners be relieved
in such Manner as to the House shall seem meet.'
Tho' this Debate was not of so public a Nature as those
we have already given; yet, as it shewed the Sense of the
House upon a very important Point, we shall give the Reader a connected View of the whole Arguments and Proceedings upon this Bill.
Progress of the Petition. ; Bill brought in upon the same. ; Petition against it.
This Petition being referred to the Consideration of a
Committee, March 19, Mr. Cholmondley made the Report
from the said Committee, and Leave was given to bring in
a Bill according to the Desire of the Petition. The Bill was
accordingly presented, and read for the first Time on the
24th of March, and ordered a second Reading; but before
it came to a second Reading, several Petitions were presented from the Manufacturers and Dealers in Woven Buttons,
praying to be heard by Counsel against the Bill; the Desires
of which Petitioners were granted, and the Petitions ordered
to lie upon the Table until the Bill was read a second Time;
as were also Petitions from the Manufacturers and Traders
in the Needle-work Buttons in the several Towns in England,
expressing their Apprehensions that the general Trade of the
Kingdom would be affected, and the Exports of the Woollen and other Manufactures to Turky greatly decreased, and
many Thousands of themselves reduced to great Indigence, if
the said Bill did not pass into a Law.
April 10, The Bill was read a second Time, and Counsel
being heard both for the Bill and against it, and several
Witnesses examined, the Bill was committed, and all who
came to the Committee were to have Votes.
April 18. Mr. Cholmondley reported from the Committee,
that they had found the Allegations in the Bill true; upon
which the Bill, with the Amendments made in the Committee were ordered to be engrossed.
Debate upon the same.
April 25. The Bill was read a third Time, and the Question being put if it should pass,
Henry Fox, Esq; spoke as follows:
Henry Fox, Esq.
Sir,
'I don't stand up to oppose this Bill from any Consideration how far particular Persons may be affected by its Fate,
but from a Conviction that, instead of its being of real Service to the Commerce or Manufactures of the Kingdom, if
it passes into a Law, it may do hurt to both. I have heard
the Witnesses both for and against the Bill examined; I was
likewise present when the Counsel on both Sides was heard
at the Bar of the House; and by what I could gather from
the Evidence of the one and the Pleadings of the other, the
Practice of weaving Buttons can never prevent any of the
good Consequences that were intended by the several Acts of
Parliament, in favour of the Consumption of Raw Silk and
Mohair, from being effectual; and that the Manufacture
which the Bill is intended to destroy, ought to receive the
greatest Encouragement from the Legislature. Therefore,
Sir, till I hear better Reasons in Support of this Bill than
any I have yet heard, I must be against our passing it into a
Law.'
He was answered by Mr. Cholmondley, as follows:
Charles Cholmondley, Esq;
Sir,
'I have the Misfortune to differ so much from the honourable Gentleman who spoke last, that I think, if ever any
Bill of this Kind deserved the Encouragement of the Legislature, the present does. I think it is generally allowed that
one of the Characters of a beneficial Trade, is, when a Nation exports of its Manufactures and native Commodities for
such Goods as receive a further Manufacturing in that Nation. Former Parliaments seem to have been so sensible,
that the Importation of Raw Silk and Mohair was of the
greatest Advantage to the Nation, by increasing the Export
of our Woollen and other Manufactures, that few Branches
of Trade have met with greater Encouragement from the
Legislature, than the making of Buttons and Button-holes
with the Needle. So far back as the 14th Year of Charles
the Second, this House thought a Petition from the Manufacturers of wrought Buttons and Button-holes so worthy their
Consideration, that an Act was passed, Prohibiting the Importation of foreign Buttons and Needle-work, under the
Penalty of fifty Pounds, and Forfeiture of the Goods so prohibited The Petition, Sir, that gave Rise to that Act, was
presented to the House, on the very Motive, that gave Occasion to the Bill now before us; which was the Relief of
great Numbers of the Inhabitants of this Kingdom, who
gained their Living, and had been able to relieve their indigent Neighbours, and set on work many poor Children, by
their Skill and Dexterity in this Manufacture; and who were
in Danger to have been all ruined by the Practice, then introduced, of importing foreign Buttons and Button-holes into
the Nation.
'In the tenth Year of King William, the Intention of the
former Acts in favour of this Manufacture, had been so
much frustrated by the making and wearing Buttons made of
Shreds of Cloth, Camblet, and other Stuffs, that Numbers
of poor People employed in manufacturing Buttons with the
Needle were thrown upon their respective Parishes: This induced the Legislature to pass an Act just of the same Nature
with that now under our Consideration; by which, Buttons
made of Cloth, or any of the Stuffs of which wearing Apparel was usually made, were prohibited. But as this Act did
not extend to Button-holes, in the Eighth Year of Queen
Anne an Act passed, which took notice, that the Intention
of the last Act had been of late, in a great Measure, rendered ineffectual by an artificial and unforeseen Practice of
making and binding Button-holes with Cloth, Serge, and
other Stuffs, to the utter Ruin of Numbers of Families.
Therefore, Button-holes as well as Buttons, made of, or
bound with such Stuffs, were prohibited under the Penalty of
five Pounds per Dozen on the Taylor, Seller, or Maker of
any such Buttons or Button-holes so prohibited. But this
Act, Sir, proving no more effectual than the former Acts I
have mentioned, for answering the good Intentions of Parliament, an Act was made in the fourth Year of his late Majesty, by which all Clothes and wearing Garments made
with Buttons and Button-holes, prohibited by the former
Acts, were liable to be forfeited and seized, except where
the Clothes were made of Velvet. It might have been reasonably hoped, Sir, after such Precautions taken by Parliament, that the good Ends proposed by the several Acts I
have mentioned would have been no longer eluded; but in
the seventh Year of his late Majesty some further Regulations
on this Head were found absolutely necessary. Some Gentlemen who are present may remember, that at that Time
the only Method that could be thought of for that Purpose,
was to extend the Penalty to the Wearer of such prohibited
Buttons and Button-holes, as well as to the Maker and Taylor. This gave Occasion for passing the Act intitled, An
Act for employing the Manufacturers, and encouraging the
Consumption of Raw Silk and Mohair Yarn, by prohibiting
Buttons and Button-holes made of Cloth, Serge, or other
Stuffs. And by this Act a Penalty was laid upon the Person
who wore such prohibited Buttons and Button-holes. This
Act, for some Time, had a very good Effect, and the Manufacturers, from the Encouragement which the Parliament
has given them from Time to Time, have made a great
many Improvements in their Trade, and brought it to such a
Perfection, that they are able not only to supply this Nation,
but export considerable Quantities of them to foreign Parts.
So that, Sir, another Character of a good Trade is answered
by this Manufacture, which is, the manufacturing and improving, in order for a Re-exportation, a Commodity that is
imported. Therefore, Sir, this Act deserves the Countenance of the Legislature as much, if not more, than any
Act relating to our Manufactures, that has passed this House
for some Years: First, as it tends to take off large Quantities of a staple Commodity of this Nation; and, secondly,
as it adds to our Exports: Both which in a Nation that subsists by Commerce are of the greatest Consequence.
'But, Sir, besides the Advantages I have already mentioned, it is easy to make it appear that the Encouragement
given to this Manufacture is a considerable Ease to the landed
Interest. I could name, Sir, many Places of the Kingdom,
where the Poor, if not employed in this Manufacture,
must be either thrown upon their respective Parishes, or
obliged to beg their Bread. I dare say, Sir, that in the
several Towns and Cities from which Petitions have come
before this House in favour of the Bill, there are no fewer
than 140,000 Inhabitants who are incapable to get their
Bread in any other way than by applying to this Business.
For, give me leave to observe, that in this Manafacture,
there is one thing peculiar, which is, that there are sew Infirmities either of Age or Sickness, that disable the Manufacturers from applying themselves to some Branch of it,
either in twisting the Yarn, making the Molds, or sewing
the Buttons; besides many other smaller Arts that are absolutely necessary for carrying it on. This, Sir, may be the
Reason why so great Numbers are employed in this Manufacture, and why some Traders have found their Account in
employing all their Stocks, which often are very considerable,
that Way.
'Having thus laid before you, Sir, the Advantages arising
to this Kingdom from the carrying on and improving this
Manufacture, I shall beg leave to trouble the House with a
few Words more, with regard to the Discouragement
which it must meet with, if this Act should not pass. The
late Practice of weaving Silk and Mohair in Looms, for the
making of Buttons and Button-holes, is but in a very few
Hands, when compared with the Numbers who get their
Bread by the Needle-work Manufacture, and, if encouraged,
may, in a short Time, quite frustrate the Intentions of the
former Acts relating to this Affair. Those Buttons that
are covered with Slips wrought in the Loom, not being distinguishable from those covered with Shreds of Camblet or
other Stuffs, cannot fail of encouraging that Practice, which,
as the Act of the 7th Year of his late Majesty is still in
Force, may put the Subjects to very great Inconveniencies.
For Instance, if a Gentleman should employ a roguish Taylor
to make him a Sute of Cloaths, and the Taylor, instead of
giving him Buttons either made with the Needle, or woven in
the Loom, shall give him those covered with Shreds of Camblet or other Stuffs: In such a Case, the Gentleman, Sir,
is liable to a Penalty, tho' quite innocent of any Intention
to break this Act of Parliament; so that, Sir, this Practice
of weaving Buttons is not only subject to the Inconvenience
I speak of, but gives a Handle to intolerable Impositions and
Frauds that may be practised by Tradesmen. We had a
remarkable Instance, Sir, how easily this Fraud may be
practised, in the Evidence given in at the Bar of this
House, by some of the principal Witnesses brought to support the Arguments of the Counsel against the Bill. When
a Parcel of Buttons was laid before them, some woven in
the Loom, others made of Shreds of Camblet and other
such Stuffs, tho' it was pretended that the one might be easily
distinguished from the other, yet none of the Evidences
could possibly say which was the one or which was the other,
till they had looked to that Part of the Button that is
sewed to the Coat; and not even then without great Difficulty; for some of them were obliged to go to the Light, in
order to view them more narrowly, and after all some of
them were mistaken, and others could not positively distinguish them. If it was so hard, Sir, for these Evidences,
who are themselves Manufacturers and Dealers in woven
Buttons, how hard must it be to me, or another Man who
knows nothing of the Matter! But, Sir, besides this Inconvenience to particular Persons, such a Practice must soon
very much affect the Trade of the Nation. The Practice
of making Buttons of Shreds of Stuff will in a short Time
become common amongst our lower and midling Sort of
People, and do great Prejudice both to the Exportation of
Woollen Manufactures, and to the numerous Dealers in
Needle-work Buttons at Home: By diminishing the Demand
for raw Silk and Mohair, we diminish the Exports of our
Woollen Goods; and by encourageing woven Buttons, we
endanger the Sale of the Commodities in foreign Markets;
and thereby we may diminish another Branch of our Exports.
For, Sir, let us suppose that a foreign Dealer gives Commission to his Factor here for a Parcel of Buttons; the
Factor, either through Ignorance or Design, sends him Buttons covered with Shreds of Camblet or other Stuff, instead
of Buttons woven in the Loom. Is it not plain, Sir, that
such a Practice must soon prove the Ruin of this Branch of
Trade, and intirely sink the Credit of those who deal in it in
foreign Markets? But this, Sir, is not the only bad Consequence that will attend our not passing this Bill into a
Law. It will be evident to any Gentleman, who shall take the
Trouble of reading former Acts that have passed on this Head,
that in passing them, the Legislature had an Eye not only to
the Encouragement of the Consumption of Raw Silk and
Mohair, and the Exportation of our Staple Commodities,
but likewise to the Employment and Subsistence of many
thousands of Men, Women and Children, who must have
been very burdensome to the Publick, had it not been for
the Needle-work Manufacture And give me leave to say,
Sir, that if the common Maxim is true, that, that Manufacture is most profitable for a Nation which employs the greatest
Number of Hands; the Manufacture of Needle-work
Buttons deserves the Attention and Encouragement of Parliament perhaps better than any other in the Kingdom.
For in the Preamble of the Act of the 10th of King
William, no less than five different kinds of Workers are
mentioned to be employed in preparing the Materials for
making the Buttons. Therefore, Sir, I think by all the
Rules of good Policy, we are obliged to second the Intentions of former Parliaments in favour of this Manufacture,
by passing the Bill now before us. It has already employed
great Part of our Time this Session, and every Step made in
it has been taken upon the most mature Deliberation, and
after weighing all the Consequences that can attend it of
every Kind. By passing this Act, we do no more than
former Parliaments would have done, had the Inconveniency
complained of been foreseen at the Time of passing the
several Acts, I have mentioned; and in not passing it, I am
afraid all their Intentions, in favour of this Manufacture,
may be rendered ineffectual.'
He was answered to the following Effect, by Henry
Archer, Esq;
Mr. Archer.
Sir,
'I shall readily agree with the honourable Gentleman
who spoke last, that the Manufacture now under our Consideration is of very great Consequence to the Trade of this
Kingdom, and that it has from Time to Time met with great
Encouragement from the Legislature. Therefore, Sir, if I
thought that the good Ends proposed by former Parliaments
had been rendered ineffectual, and that our passing the
present Bill could render them more effectual, I should be
far from opposing it. But, on the other Hand, as I am
persuaded that it can no way answer that Purpose, and
at the same time, that it tends to do a manifest Injustice to
many of his Majesty's Subjects in their private Properties,
I shall beg Leave to give my Reasons why I think myself
obliged to oppose it.
'The Design of the Encouragement, which the Manufacturing of Raw Silk and Mohair into Buttons and Buttonholes has met with, was principally, as the honourable Gentleman who spoke last seemed to allow, to increase the Exportation of our Woollen Manufactures: Therefore, Sir, I
think it undeniably follows, that if the Manufacturing of
Buttons by weaving them in the Loom, consumes as much
Raw Silk and Mohair as working them Needleways, it effectually answers the chief End proposed by former Acts of
Parliament that relate to this Manufacture. But by the
Manner in which the honourable Gentleman reasons on this
Head, one should be apt to think that these Acts restrained
this Manufacture to be carried on by the Needle alone, and
laid a Prohibition upon all other Methods of improving it.
But this, Sir, is a Consequence that can never be admitted
by any one who either looks into these particular Acts, or
understands the Nature of our Laws in general. If these
Words Needle and Needle-work occur in these Acts, it can
be for no other Reason but because no other Words were
known at that Time to express the Manner of manufacturing of Raw Silk and Mohair into Buttons. Had the Practice of weaving them in the Loom been at that Time known,
I think we have not the least Reason to doubt that the same
Acts would have regarded that Manner of exercising this
Art, as well as the other by the Needle. So that, Sir, I
humbly conceive, if it can be proved, First, That not a less,
but rather a greater Quantity of Raw Silk and Mohair is
consumed by the Loom Manufacturers, than by the Needleworkers: Secondly, That there is no Weight in the honourable Gentleman's Argument drawn from the great
Numbers of Hands employed in the Needle-work Manufacture: And lastly, That the Dealers in the Loom Manufacture have in Proportion exported greater Quantities of
their Goods than the Needle-workers have done; I say, Sir,
if these three Points can be made appear, as I shall undertake to do, than the Arguments advanced in favour of this
Bill must fall to the Ground.
'The Gentlemen who were present when the Witnesses
against the Bill were examined at the Bar of this House, may
remember, that it appeared by some of them who had weighed the Materials employed in covering a Dozen of Needlework Buttons with the same Quantity of woven Buttons,
that the latter exceeded the former in Weight; and that,
after the woven Buttons were made, the Manufacturers were
obliged to cut off some Part of the List from each Button,
where it was sewed to the Coat, which Waste still increases
the Consumption of the Materials. Nor could the Evidences
for the Bill, Sir, deny, that there was at least an equal
Consumption of the Materials in the one Manufacture as in
the other. From hence, Sir, it is evident, that the carrying
on this Manufacture by the Loom effectually answers the Intention of the Acts passed in its Favour. As to the honourable Gentleman's other Arguments, drawn from the Number of Hands employed in the Needle-work Manufacture,
which was the second Point I proposed to speak to, it is, in
my humble Opinion, a very good Argument for dismissing
this Bill; because, as the Manufacture may be carried on
by a much fewer Number of Hands, with equal Advantage
to our Trade in general, those who are employed in the
Needle-work Way, are so many Hands taken from other
Arts and other Manufactures, in which they might be employed to much better Purpose. I believe, Sir, it is not
unknown to some Gentlemen in this House, that many of
our Manufactures, very beneficial to the Nation, labour under great Disadvantages from the Dearness of Wages, occasioned by the Scarcity of Hands employed in them. But
that Inconveniency would be soon removed, if the useless
People employed in this and other Manufactures were turned
over to the Manufactures that absolutely require them.
Thus the honourable Gentleman's Objections arising
from his Tenderness for these poor People, deprived
of this Way of earning their Bread, will be removed to the
Advantage both of the Kingdom, and perhaps of themselves.
But to convince Gentlemen how unreasonable this very Argument is, I shall beg leave to apply it to other Cases, where
a Manufacture or an Art has received farther Improvements
by carrying it on with fewer Hands. There was a Time,
Sir, when all the Learning of this Kingdom, and the rest of
Europe, was contained in Manuscripts, the writing of which
employed great Numbers of Hands, and took up a vast deal
of Time in re-copying. But, Sir, how ridiculous would it
have been, if on the Discovery of the Art of Printing, the
Transcribers and Copyers of those Manuscripts had joined
in a Petition to the Legislature, that it would be pleased to
prohibit the Art of Printing, for the same Reason which the
honourable Gentleman now uses, because great Numbers
would thereby be deprived of Bread! But admitting, Sir,
this Instance should be thought a little foreign to the present
Purpose, I shall beg leave to mention another, which, I
think, exactly answers the Case of the Petitioners for this
Bill: The Manufacturing of Wooll, Silk, and Thread into
Stockings, when that Manufacture was carried on by Knitting, gave Bread to, I believe, as great Numbers of People,
as the Manufacture of Needle-work Buttons now does. But,
Sir, I never heard that, when the Invention of working
Stockings in the Loom was introduced, great Numbers of
the Subjects were reduced to Want, and in Danger of starving; or that any Application was made to Parliament in
their Behalf. In all civilized Countries, Sir, Inventions for
the Improvement of Arts and Manufactures have been encouraged; sometimes Rewards, and sometimes exclusive
Rights to exercise them, have been assigned to the Inventors,
who are always looked upon as Benefactors to their Country.
'Not only his Majesty, and the general Approbation of
the Nation, gave a Sanction to a late Invention for improving
one Branch of the Manufacture of Raw Silk, but this very
House rewarded the ingenious Inventor with a Present of
14,000 Pounds. This excellent Invention enabled us to
carry on the Manufacture with fewer Hands than it required
before, and was therefore jstustly looked upon as a publick
Advantage. Now, Sir, I should be glad to know, if Gentlemen would not have thought it a very ridiculous Step in
the former Manufacturers, if they had presented a Petition
to this House, setting forth, 'That if the Use of the Engine invented by Sir Thomas Lombe, was not prohibited by
the Parliament, many Thousands of the Petitioners would be
'in Danger of wanting Bread.' I believe no Gentleman can
shew me wherein a Petition of this Kind is different from the
Petition that gave Rise to the Bill now under our Consideration. Nor can I imagine that any Argument can be advanced in favour of this Bill, that does not equally serve against the Improvement, nay the Invention of any Manufacture. The Longitude, Sir, is a Discovery that would
consequently be a great Improvement of Navigation, by rendering it more safe, and Voyages performed in a shorter
Time, and so make less Employ for Mariners. Were an
ingenious Man to discover the Longitude, would not our
Sailors have as good Reason to petition this House against that
Improvement of their Art, as the Needleworkers have to
petition us against the Improvement of theirs? and would
they not have the same Right to Redress? Having therefore,
I hope, shewn that this Argument, drawn from the greater
Number of Hands employed in the one Manufacture than are
employed in the other, is unreasonable in itself, and attended
with the grossest Absurdities, I shall now proceed to consider
what Effect this Improvement can have upon our Exports.
'I believe, Sir, it cannot be disputed that the cheaper
a Manufacture is carried on by a Nation, the greater Quantities of that Manufacture will that Nation be able to export. This Truth, I am afraid, appears but too plain in
the present State of the British Manufactures; in which our
Neighbours, the French, being able to furnish the same
Commodities at a cheaper Rate, undersel us at most of the
Markets in Europe. Therefore, I think, Sir, it is undeniable that every Improvement, which, by diminishing the
Number of Hands required in a Manufacture, reduces the
Price of the Commodity, ought to meet with Encouragement from this House. That the Method of weaving Buttons
is more expeditious than that of Needle-working, has I think
in effect been owned by the honourable Gentleman, and the
Counsel who have spoke for the Bill. Now, Sir, the more
expeditious the Method, the greater is the Reduction of Hands
employed: Because, if a Man who now deals to the Value of
six thousand Pounds a Year in Buttons, is obliged to employ
eight Hands every Day; if four Hands, Sir, can do the same
Work that these eight Hands can do; and in as short
a Time, he can discharge four of his Hands, and thereby
save half his Expences; consequently he will be able to
serve a foreign Market at a cheaper Rate than he could before have done. The good Effect of the Reduction of
Hands employed in this Manufacture appears from the Examination of the Witnesses against the Bill: For it has been
proved, Sir, that, notwithstanding the Obstructions they
have met with from the Petitioners for the Bill, the Loom
Manufacturers have exported larger Quantities in proportion
to the Number of Dealers, than the Needle-workers have
ever yet done; and there is, Sir, an obvious Reason
for it, which is, that the Loom Manufacturers not only can
afford their Commodities much cheaper than the Needleworkers can, but their Commodities are much better in their
Kind, much neater, and more lasting, as has been fully
proved at the Bar of this House. There is, I think, only
one Objection more, which I shall beg leave to answer: The
Petitioners for the Bill alledged, that in the Loom Manufacture many Materials are used which are not Mohair, and
that therefore the Loom-workers in some Measure elude the
Intent of the Acts of Parliament, made for encouraging the
Consumption of that Commodity. This Allegation might have
had some Weight; but unfortunately for the Petitioners, it
is not grounded on Fact. For the Loom-Manufacture does
not elude the Intention of these Acts of Parliament, because,
though the Manufacturers indeed, make use of some Materials besides Mohair and Raw Silk, yet when the Mohair and Raw Silk of an equal Number of Buttons are weighed, the Materials employed in the Loom exceed those of the
Needle-workers; and the other Materials employed in each
Buton, are not so heavy as the Waste of the Raw Silk and
Mohair which the Loom Manufacturers are obliged to make
But, Sir, besides this Answer drawn from a plain Fact, that
appeared at the Bar of your House; give me leave to say,
that this Objection against the Loom Manufacture is a very
strong Reason that we ought to support it; for, as the Intention of these Acts was to encrease the Consumption of our
Commodities, therefore, whatever best answers that Intention, best deserves our Encouragement. Now, Sir, it appears that the Materials, besides those of Raw Silk and Mohair, made use of by the Loom Manufacturers, are the Produce of this Kingdom; it appears that their using them does
not diminish the Consumption of the other Commodities;
and therefore it undeniably follows, that the Loom Manufacture is best calculated for answering the Intentions of the
Legislature.
'Having thus, Sir, I think, obviated the principal Arguments in favour of the Bill, I shall now beg leave to put
Gentlemen in Mind, that, by passing it, we shall do a Thing
which I am sure every Gentleman in this House would willingly avoid. We make an Encroachment, Sir, upon the
private Property of our Fellow Subjects. We deprive them
of the natural Right which every Man, in a Land of Liberty ought to enjoy, of gaining Bread in an honest and lawful
Way. Nay more, Sir, we give a total Discouragement to
any future Improvement of Arts and Manufactures. How
will it found, to After-Times, that in a Reign remarkable for
the Encouragement of all the Arts, especially those of Commerce, a British Parliament, by one Act, prevented all future Improvement of any of these Arts: Let us not, Sir,
draw upon us the Imputation of so much Barbarism, let us
not give our Neighbours so just a Handle of Reproach; but
let us remember, that not only the present but future Ages
are concerned in every Step of this Nature we shall make.
Had our Ancestors, Sir, discouraged the Improvers of Arts
and Manufactures, they could have had no Title to the Gratitude of their Posterity. And, Sir, give me leave to add,
that in England the Advancement of the liberal, is but
the Consequence of the Encouragement given by the Legislature to the Improvement of the commercial Arts. In
all Ages and Countries they have gone Hand in Hand, they
have risen and fallen with one another, and whatever has
affected the latter, has always proved fatal to the former.
Therefore, Sir, I am against our passing this Bill.'
The Question being put, the Bill was rejected. Yeas 85,
Noes 111.
April 13. Several Persons were examined at the Bar of
the House upon the counterfeiting the Hands of some of the
Members in Franks; and they owning the Offence, some of
them were committed to the Custody of the Serjeant at Arms,
and others of them to Newgate.
The Chair. ; Debate upon printing the Proceedings of the House.
After which Mr. Speaker informed the House, that it
was with some Concern he saw a Practice prevailing, which
a little reflected upon the Dignity of that House: What he
meant was the inserting an Account of their Proceedings in
the printed News Papers, by which Means the Proceedings of
the House were liable to very great Misrepresentations.
That he had in his Hands a printed News Paper, which contained his Majesty's Answer to their late Address, before the
same had been reported from the Chair, the only Way of
communicating it to the Public. That he thought it his
Duty to inform the House of these Practices, the rather because he had observed them of late to have run into very
great Abuses; and therefore he hoped that Gentlemen would
propose some Method of stopping it.
Sir William Yonge.
Sir William Yonge.
Sir,
'I am very glad you have mentioned this Affair. I have
long looked upon it as a Practice very inconsistent with the
Forms and Dignity which this House ought always to support; but since you have been pleased to mention this from
the Chair, I must beg Leave to carry my Observations a little
farther. I have observed, Sir, that not only an Account of
what you do, but of what you say, is regularly printed and
circulated through all Parts, both of the Town and Country.
At the same Time, Sir, there are very often gross Misrepresentations, both of the Sense and Language of Gentlemen.
This is very liable to give the Publick false Impressions both
of Gentlemens Conduct and Abilities. Therefore, Sir, in
my Opinion, it is now high Time to put a Stop to it. Not
that I should be for attacking the Liberty of the Press; that
is a Point I would be as tender of as any Gentleman in this
House. Perhaps some Gentlemen may think it indeed a
Hardship, not to be able to find their Names in Print, at the
Head of a great many fine Things, in the monthly Magazines; but this, Sir, can never prevent Gentlemen from
sending their Speeches, if they please; it only prevents other
Gentlemen from being misrepresented, as to what they say,
which, Sir, I am sure is what every Gentleman in this
House will wish for. Therefore, I hope Gentlemen will
consider of some Method of putting a Stop to this Abuse,
more effectual than we have fallen upon yet. There is, indeed, a Resolution on our Journals, against printing or
publishing any of the Proceedings of this House, but by Authority of the Chair; but People had generally run away
with the Notion, that this Prohibition is in Force only during the Time we are sitting, and that as soon as the Session
ends, they are at Liberty to print and publish what they
please: Therefore, I hope Gentlemen will come into a Resolution, for explaining that Matter; and if they do, I am
very sure that if it is broke through, I myself will move the
House, with the very first Opportunity, next Session. But the
Printers of the Papers, Sir, which you have in your Hands,
cannot even plead the Excuse of the Recess of Parliament;
therefore deserve to be punished; and if you do not either
punish them, or take some effectual Method of checking them,
you may soon expect to see your Votes, your Proceedings, and
your Speeches, printed and hawked about the Streets, while
we are sitting in this House.'
Sir William Windham spoke next to the following
Effect:
Sir Will. Windham.
Sir,
'No Gentleman can be more jealous and tender than I
have always been of the Rights and Privileges of this House,
nor more ready to concur with any Measure for putting a
Stop to any Abuses which may affect either of them. But at
the same Time, Sir, I own, I think we ought to be very
cautious how we form a Resolution upon this Head; and yet
I think it is absolutely necessary that some Question should be
formed. I say, Sir, we ought to be very cautious in what
Manner we form a Resolution; for it is a Question so nearly
connected with the Liberty of the Press, that it will require
a great deal of Tenderness to form a Resolution which may
preserve Gentlemen from having their Sense misrepresented
to the Publick, and at the same Time guard against all Encroachments upon the Liberty of the Press. On the other
Hand, Sir, I am sensible that there is a Necessity of putting
a Stop to this Practice of printing, what are called the
Speeches of this House, because I know that Gentlemen's
Words in this House have been mistaken and misrepresented:
I don't know, Sir, but I have some Reason of Complaint
myself upon that Head. I have, indeed, seen many Speeches
of Gentlemen in this House that were fairly and accurately
taken; and no Gentleman, when that is the Case, ought to
be ashamed that the World should know every Word he
speaks in this House: For my own Part, I never shall, for I
hope never to act or speak in this House, any Thing that I
shall be ashamed to own to all the World. But of late, Sir,
I have seen such monstrous Mistakes in some Gentlemen's
Speeches, as they have been printed in our News Papers, that
it is no Wonder if Gentlemen think it high Time to have a
Stop put to such a Practice.
'Yet still, Sir, there are two Considerations, which I own
weigh very much with me upon this Occasion. That this
House has a Right to prohibit the Publication of any of its
Proceedings during the Time we are sitting, is past all
Doubt, and there is no Question, but that, by the Resolutions that now stand upon our Votes, and are renewed every
Session, the Printers of the Papers you have in your Hand
are liable to the Censure of this House. But I am not at all
so clear as to the Right we may have of preventing any of
our Proceedings from being printed during our Recess; at
least, Sir, I am pretty sure that People without Doors are
strongly possessed with that Notion, and therefore I should
be against our inflicting any Censure at present, for what is
past of that Kind. If Gentlemen are of Opinion, which I
do own I am not, that we have a Power to prevent any Account of our Proceedings and Debates from being communicated to the Publick, even during our Recess, then, as this
Affair has been mentioned, they will no doubt think it very
proper to come to a Resolution against that Practice, and to
punish it with a very severe Penalty; but if we have no
such Power, Sir, I own I don't see how you can form any
Resolution upon this Head, that will not be liable to very
great Censure.
'The other Consideration, that weighs very much, Sir,
with me upon this Occasion, is the Prejudice which the Publick will think they sustain, by being deprived of all Knowledge of what passes in this House, otherwise than by the
printed Votes, which are very lame and imperfect, for satisfying their Curiosity of knowing in what Manner their Representatives act within Doors. They have been long used
to be indulged in this, and they may possibly think it a
Hardship to be deprived of it now. Nay, Sir, I must go
farther: I don't know but they may have a Right to know
somewhat more of the Proceedings of this House than what
appears upon your Votes; and if I were sure that the Sentiments of Gentlemen were not misrepresented, I should be
against our coming to any Resolution that could deprive them
of a Knowledge that is so necessary for their being able to
judge of the Merits of their Representatives within Doors.
If Gentlemen, however, are of Opinion that they can frame
a Resolution, which will put a Stop to all Impositions, and
yet leave the Publick some Room for having just Information
of what passes within these Walls, I shall be extremely glad
to give it my Concurrence. But I am absolutely against our
stretching our Power farther than it will go consistently with
the just Rights of Parliament; such Stretches rather weaken
than give any Strength to the Constitution; and I am sure no
Gentleman will care to do what may not only look
like our claiming Powers unknown to our Constitution, but
what, in its Consequences, may greatly affect the Liberty of
the Press. If we shall extend this Resolution to the Recess
of Parliament, all political Writing, if the Authors shall
touch upon any Thing that past in the preceding Session,
may be affected by it; for I don't know that any body would
venture to publish any Thing that might bring upon them
the Censure of this House.
'In the mean Time, Sir, I am as willing as any Gentleman in this House, that a Stop should be put to the Practice
you have taken notice of from the Chair. It has grown to
such a Pitch, that I remember some Time ago there was a
publick Dispute in the News Papers, betwixt two Printers or
Booksellers of two Pamphlets, which of them contained the
true Copy of a certain honourable Gentleman's Speech in
this House. It is therefore high Time for Gentlemen to
think of somewhat to be done for that Purpose, and I make
no doubt but that any Resolution this House shall think fit
to come to, will put an effectual Stop to it.'
Thomas Winnington, Esq; spoke next.
Thomas Winnington Esq;.
Sir,
'I do not pretend to know the Forms and the Powers of
this House so well as the honourable Gentleman over the
Way, who has much more Experience in both than I can
pretend to; but it is very surprizing to me, that any Gentleman should seem to make a Doubt of the Power which this
House has during the Recess of Parliament. It is true, we
have no Power, but as a House, to make any Commitment,
or to pass any Censure; but then it is as true, that the Orders and Resolutions of this House are, or ought to be, as
binding during our Recess, as during our Sitting. The Reason, Sir, of this is plain; because we are still the same
House, and we have the same Authority during our Adjournment or Prorogation, as when we sit; our Privileges are the
same, and for the same Reason our Acts ought to have the
same Force too. Can any Gentleman doubt, that if this
House shall come to a Resolution, that if any Person should,
during our Recess, presume to print any of our Proceedings,
that we would not have a Right to punish him next Time
we met together as a House? I dare say, Gentlemen will
not pretend that we have not; therefore, Sir, I hope you
will come to some very strong Resolution upon this Occasion.
I hope ye will declare, that whoever shall presume to print
any Part of the Proceedings of this House, during the Recess
of Parliament, will be equally liable to the Censure of this
House as if it were during the Session.
'As to what the honourable Gentleman insinuated about
the Liberty of the Press being in Danger, it is a Consideration I am in no Manner of Pain about. Our coming to a
Resolution, that we will not have what we say misrepresented, can never affect the Liberty of the Press. It is
what every private Gentleman has a Right to require, tho'
he were out of Parliament; for I believe no Gentleman
would wish to see his Sentiments misrepresented in Print,
even tho' they regarded a private Affair; but when such a
Thing happens in a Debate, to six a Gentleman's publick
Character, the Consequences are much worse. For my own
Part, Sir, I am not afraid of speaking my Mind in this
House; but I should be very sorry to see any Thing I say in
this House misrepresented in a publick News-Paper; and I
should think I had a very good Title to Redress, even tho'
I were not a Member of this House.
'But, Sir, setting aside the Case of these Gentlemen's
being misrepresented in what they say in these publick
Papers, I think it is a very great Injury done us, as a House
of Parliament. I don't see why we ought to be less jealous
of our Rights and Priviledges, than the other House is. I
know of no Right we have given up, with regard to our
Power to regulate our own Proceedings that the other House
enjoys: and I am sure there have been some late Instances,
wherein they have, I believe, pretty severely punished some
Printers for presuming to publish their Protests. They
did this, Sir, not because their Words or Meaning were misrepresented, but because they conceived it to be an Indignity
done to them as a House of Parliament, to print any
Proceeding of theirs whatsoever, without their Consent and
Authority. That of itself, Sir, is a Reason why we ought
to put a Stop to this scandalous Practice of printing our
Proceedings; because if we should appear less jealous of our
Rights and Priviledges, than the other House are of theirs,
it may be afterwards told us, that we do not enjoy such
Rights and Privileges, because at such a Time, when we
had the same Reason as the other House had, we did not
exercise them. Therefore, if we do not put a speedy Stop
to this Practice, it will be look'd upon without Doors, that
we have no Power to do it, for the publick will very justly
think that if we had such a Power, we would exercise it.
And then, Sir, what will be the Consequence; why Sir,
you will have every Word that is spoken here by Gentlemen,
misrepresented by Fellows who thrust themselves into our
Gallery. You will have the Speeches of this House every
Day printed, even during your Session. And we shall be
looked upon as the most contemptible Assembly, on the
Face of the Earth. I agree with the honourable Gentleman
over the Way, that it may not be quite so right, to punish
those Printers for what they have done already; for really,
Sir, we have been so very remiss in putting a Stop to this
Practice, that by this Time they may think they are in the
Right in what they do. But I can see no Manner of Difficulty we can be under, to come to some very vigorous Resolution to prevent the like for the future. I would have
this Resolution, Sir, extended not only to comprehend the
Time of our sitting, but of our Recess. If the Printers
of the Monthly Magazines, and the other News Papers, are
not more cautious for the future, I think we shall be wanting
to that Regard, which we owe ourselves as a House of Parliament, if we do not proceed against them with Severity.
Therefore, Sir, I hope Gentlemen will think of a proper
Resolution with regard to this Matter of Complaint.'
The next who spoke was William Pulteney Esq;
Mr. Pulteney.
Sir,
'I agree entirely with the Gentleman who has already
spoken, that it is absolutely necessary a Stop should be put
to the Practice which has been so justly complained of:
I think no Appeals should be made to the Publick with
regard to what is said in this Assembly, and to print or
publish the Speeches of Gentlemen in this House, even
tho' they were not misrepresented, looks very like making
them accountable without Doors for what they say within.
Besides, Sir, we know very well that no Man can be so
guarded in his Expressions, as to wish to see every Thing he
says in this House in Print. I remember the Time when
this House was so jealous, so cautious of doing any thing
that might look an Appeal to their Constituents, that not
even the Votes were printed without Leave. A Gentleman
every Day rose in his Place, and desired the Chair to ask
Leave of the House, that their Votes for that Day should be
printed. How this Custom came to be dropp'd I cannot so
well account for, but I think it high Time for us to prevent
any farther Encroachment upon our Privileges; and I hope
Gentlemen will enter into a proper Resolution for the
Purpose.
'But, tho' I am as much as any Gentleman can be for
putting a Stop to this scandalous Practice, I should be very
tender of doing it in such a Manner, as may either affect
the Liberty of the Press, or make it seem as if we claim
a Privilege to which we have no Title. An honourable
Gentleman near me was pleased to mention the Powers
which the other House had of calling Printers to an Account for printing their Protests. It is very true, Sir, they
have such a Power, and they have exercised it very lately;
but we have no such Power: They may punish a Printer for
printing any Part of the Proceedings of their House, for
twenty, thirty, or forty Years back; but then, Gentlemen
are to consider that the House of Peers is a Court of Record,
and as such, its Rights and Privileges never die. Whereas,
this House never pretended to be a Court of Record; our
Privileges expire at the End of every Parliament; and the
next House of Commons is quite different from the last.
As to the Question whether we have a Right to punish any
Printer, who shall publish our Proceedings, or any Part of
them, during our Recess, which I take to be the only
Question at present, it may be worthy Consideration: For my
own Part, I am apt to think that we may; because our Privileges as a House of Parliament exist during the whole Continuance of Parliament; and our not sitting never makes any Violation of these Privileges committed during a Recess less
liable to Censure, the next Time we meet as a House.
However, Sir, as it has been long the Practice to print
some Account of our Proceedings during our Recess, I am
against punishing any Person for what is past, because
very possibly they did not know they were doing amiss; and
if Gentlemen think fit to enter into any Resolution for the
Time to come, I dare say it will be sufficient to deter all
Offenders in that Way. But that Resolution, Sir, cannot
affect any Person, who shall print an Account of your
Proceedings when this Parliament shall be dissolved. There is
an (fn. 1) Honourable Gentleman near me, who knows that the
History of a whole Parliament was once published in a
Six-penny Pamphlet, and their Transactions set in no very
savourable Light, for the Gentlemen who composed it. I
never heard, Sir, that any succeeding House of Commons
took that amiss, nor that the honourable Gentleman, who
was generally look'd upon as the Author of it, was ever
called to Account by either House of Parliament. Parliaments
Sir, when they do amiss, will be talk'd of with the same
Freedom, as any other Set of Men whatsoever. This Parliament, I hope, will never deserve it; but, if it did, I
should be very sorry, that any Resolutions were entered
into in order to prevent its being represented, in the present
or the next Age, in its proper Colours. I am sure the
honourable Gentleman who sits near me, will agree with
me in this; and whatever the other House may do, Sir, I
hope we never shall stretch, our Privilege, so as to cramp the
Freedom of writing on publick Affairs.
'But this Consideration, Sir, can never affect the Resolutions which Gentlemen propose to come to now. We have
rather been too remiss in not putting a Stop to this scandalous Practice that has been complained of. I always thought
that these Pamphlets containing our Debates were circulated
by the Government's Encouragement, and at their Expence;
for till the honourable Gentleman who spoke last save one
in the Debate, mentioned the Magazines in the Manner he
did, I have been still used to look on the publishing them as
a ministerial Project; for I imagined that it being found
unpracticable to make the People buy and read the Gazetteer by itself, it was contrived so as that the Writings of the
other Party, being printed in the same Pamphlet, it might
be some Invitation to the Publick to look into the Gazetteer,
and I dare say, Sir, the great Run which the Magazines
have had has been entirely owing to this Stratagem. The
Good and the Bad are printed together, and People are by
that Means drawn in to read both. But I think it is now
high Time, to put a Stop to the Effects they may have, by
coming to a Resolution that may at least prevent any Thing
being published, during the Time of our sitting as a House,
which may be imposed upon the World as the Language and
Words of Gentlemen who perhaps never spoke them.'
Sir Robert Walpole spoke next:
Sir Robert Walpole
Sir,
'You have with great Justice punished some Persons,
for forging the Names of Gentlemen upon the Backs of
Letters; but the Abuse now, complained of is, I conceive, a Forgery of a worse Kind; for it tends to misrepresent
the Sense of Parliament, and impose upon the Understanding
of the whole Nation. It is but a petty Damage that can
arise from a forg'd Frank, when compared to the infinite
Mischiefs that may come from this Practice. I have read
some Debates of this House, Sir, in which I have been
made to speak the very reverse of what I meant. I have
read others of them wherein all the Wit, the Learning, and
the Argument has been thrown into one Side, and on the
other nothing but what was low, mean, and ridiculous; and
yet when it comes to the Question, the Division has gone
against the Side, which upon the Face of the Debate had
Reason and Justice to support it. So that, Sir, had I been a
Stranger to the Proceedings and to the Nature of the Arguments themselves, I must have thought this to have been
one of the most contemptible Assemblies on the Face of the
Earth. What Notion then, Sir, can the Publick, who have no
other Means of being inform'd of the Debates of this House,
than what they have from these Papers, entertain of the Wisdom, and Abilities of an Assembly, who are represented therein
to carry almost every Point against the strongest and the plainest Argument and Appearances. However, Sir, as I believe Gentlemen are by this Time pretty sensible of the Necessity of putting a Stop to this Practice, it will be quite unnecessary for me
to argue a Point wherein we are all agreed. But I cannot
help taking Notice of one Thing mentioned by the honourable Gentleman who spoke last, since I was the Person
to whom he was pleased to appeal. He mentioned,
that the History of a whole Parliament had been
printed, and seemed to infinuate from this, that People
might make very free with Parliaments. Really, Sir, I
will be so free as to own that I do know of such a Pamphlet being printed; nay, I believe, I know a little of the
Author, and the Publication. But at the same Time I
know Sir, that, that was one of the worst Houses of Commons that ever this Nation saw; that they had a Design to introduce the Pretender; that they had approved of a scandalous Peace, after the most glorious War that was ever carried
on; and had it not been for some very favourable Circumstances that fell out, they would have set aside the present
happy Establishment in his Majesty's Person and Family.
I hope, Sir, no Gentleman will find Fault with any Reflections, that could be thrown out against such a House of
Commons: I hope likewise, that no Gentleman will pretend
to draw any Parallels betwixt their Conduct and ours. But,
Sir, besides these Considerations, Gentlemen are to reflect,
that the Parliament which was described in that History,
had been dissolv'd before the History itself was published.
And not only so, Sir, but there is a noble Lord in the other
House, who can, if he pleases, inform Gentlemen, that the
Author of that History was so apprehensive of the Consequence of printing it, that the Press was carried to his House,
and the Copies printed off there.
'This, I think, Sir, will be sufficient to shew, that the
Author did not think himself quite out of Danger, even
tho' the Parliament was dissolv'd. But, I am not at all for
carrying Things to such a Length at present: It may be sufficient, if we come to a Resolution to prevent the Publicacation of any Part of our Proceedings during the Recess, as
well as the Sitting of the Parliament. As to what the honourable Gentleman said, with regard to the Magazines
being published and distributed by Order, and at the
Expence of the Government, I don't know if he was
serious or not. If he was serious, he must have a very contemptible Opinion of the Understanding of those Gentlemen,
who have the Honour to serve his Majesty, if he imagines
that they would be so weak as to propagate Papers, every
Page almost of which hath a direct Tendency against their own
Interest. If any Gentleman will take the Trouble, which
I own I very seldom do, to look into one of these Magazines,
he will find four Pages wrote against the Government for
one that is in its Favour; and generally the Subject is of
such a Nature, as would be severely punished under any
other Government than our own. If the honourable Gentleman was not serious, I think a more proper Time might
have been chosen for shewing his Wit, than while we are
considering of the Means of putting a Stop to a Practice,
which he himself, and every Gentleman who spoke in this
Debate, allows so nearly to affect the Dignity and Privileges
of this House. For my own Part, Sir, I am extremely indifferent, what Opinion some Gentlemen may form of the Writers
in favour of the Government: But, Sir, I shall never have the
worse Opinion of them for that: There is nothing more easy
than to raise a Laugh; it has been the common Practice of all
Minorities when they were driven out of every other Argument.
I never shall be afraid, Sir, to do what I think right, and
for the Service of his Majesty and my Country, because I
may be laughed at. But really, Sir, I will be so free as
to say, that if the Want of Wit, Learning, Good-manners,
and Truth, is a proper Object of Contempt and Ridicule,
the Writers in the Opposition seem to me to have a much
better Title to both than those for the Government. No Government, I will venture to say, ever punished so few Libels, and
no Government ever had Provocation to punish so many.
I could name a Government in this Country, Sir, under
which those Writings, which are now cry'd up, as founded
upon the Laws, and in the Constitution, would have been
punish'd as Libels, even by Gentlemen who are now the
warmest Advocates for the Liberty of the Press, and for
suffering the Authors of those daily Libels that appear in
Print to pass with Impunity. But I ask Pardon for what I
have said that may appear foreign to the present Consideration;
I was led to it by what had been thrown out by the
Gentleman, who spoke before.'
Then Mr. Speaker having drawn up the Question, it was
unanimously resolved,
That it is a high Indignity to, and a notorious Breach of
the Privilege of this House, for any News-Writer, in Letters or other Papers, (as Minutes, or under any other Denomination) or for any Printer or Publisher, of any printed
News Paper of any Denomination, to presume to insert in
the said Letters or Papers, or to give therein any Account
of the Debates, or other Proceedings of this House, or any
Committee thereof, as well during the Recess, as the Sitting
of Parliament; and that this House will proceed with the
utmost Severity against such Offenders.
Friday, May 5th. Mr. Pulteney rose and spoke as follows:
Mr. Pulteney.
Sir,
'The advanced Season of the Year, together with the
Apprehensions of a Rupture happening betwixt Spain
and Great-Britain, before our next Meeting, makes it necessary for us to enter into such Measures as may render the
War, should any happen, successful on our Part. By the Resolutions which we have already come to this Session, we
have enabled his Majesty to provide for War; we have
declared our Readiness to stand by him, in whatever Measures he may find necessary for vindicating the Honour of
his Crown, and for procuring Reparation to his injured Subjects, and Satisfaction for the Insults that have been put upon
the Nation. At the same Time, Sir, these Resolutions are upon
the clearest Proofs of an insolent unjustifiable Conduct on the
Part of Spain, and which, without a very ample Satisfaction
on their Part, must unavoidably occasion a War betwixt
the two Nations before next Session of Parliament.
'In the Event of a War, I believe, no Gentleman doubts
but that it must on our Part be a Sea War; and if it is a Sea
War, we ought to consider of the proper Measures for annoying the Enemy as effectually as possible. In order to do
this, we ought to consult the Conduct of that wise Administration, which carried on the last great War in Europe.
These great Men, Sir, found by Experience, that the Prize
Offices, notwithstanding all the Precautions taken to regulate
them, were Discouragements to the brave Seamen who had
ventured their Lives in their Country's Service: For
when a Prize was brought in, the Commissioners of the Prize
Offices, their Clerks, and the other Offices attending them
fell upon so many low Shifts to defraud the poor Sailors, first
by deducting so much clear of the Prize for the Crown,
then so much for their own Perquisites, that I have many
Times known a Prize bring the Captains into Debt to the
Crown. For this Reason it was necessary in the 6th of
Queen Anne, to pass an Act for better settling the Trade of
the Kingdom by Cruisers and Convoys. By this Law, which
was made only to continue during the War we were then engaged in, it was enacted, that if any Vessel should be taken
by any Ship of War, or Privater, and condemn'd as Prize,
the Officers and Seamen concerned in taking her should have
the sole Interest and Property in the Ship and Cargo so
taken. By the same Act proper Methods were laid down
for managing and disposing of the Prize, and for dividing
the Money arising from the Sale thereof among those that
had, and ought only to have a Right to it, without subjecting
our brave and honest Seamen to the Fees and Perquisites, and
usual Purloinings of a publick Office. And as a farther Encouragement for our Seamen to weaken and distress the Enemy, by seizing and taking their Ships, a Reward of five
Pounds to be paid out of the publick Revenue was given to
every Man that was on board such Ships of War, or Privateer, at the Beginning of the Engagement; so that every
Seaman had the Comfort to think, that if he was killed in
the Action, his Wife and Children, or his Executors, would
be sure of getting something by his Death.
'But this Affair having been once brought under the Consideration of Parliament, even this Law was not thought sufficient for the Encouragement of our Seamen, and for preventing the Abuses that had been put upon them; and therefore, Sir, another Act was passed the same Year, for encouraging our Trade to America, by which it was expresly
enacted, That all Prize Offices should be suppressed, and
that the Officers and Seamen of every Ship of War should
have the sole Interest in all Ships and Goods, being first condemned by the proper Court as lawful Prize. By the same
Act it was likewise enacted, that during the War, the
Lord Admiral, or Commissioners of the Admiralty, should,
at the Request of any British Owner of any Ship, giving
Security as usual, except for Payment of the Tenth to the
Lord-Admiral, grant Commissions to the Commanders of
such Ships, for seizing Ships and Goods belonging to his
Majesty's Enemies in any of the Seas or Rivers in America:
And that the Ships and Goods so taken, after being adjudged
Prize, should be divided amongst the Owners of, and Persons on board the Ships that took them, according to the
Agreement that had been made between the Owners and the
Ships Crew. And in order to encourage private Men or
Societies, to be at the Expence of attacking and making
War on the Enemies of their Country, it was by the same
Law enacted,' that her Majesty, during the War, might
grant Commissions or Charters to any Persons or Societies,
for taking any Ships, Goods, Harbours, Lands, or Fortifications of her Majesty's Enemies in America, and for holding and enjoying the same as their own Property and Estate
for ever.
'But all these Regulations, Sir, being determinable at
the End of the War, they can at present be of no Manner
of Use to the Nation. However it is evident, that if we
would do any Thing effectual against Spain, these Regulations must be reviv'd; it is evident that if they are not revived, our Sailors, upon the Commencement of Hostilities,
will be subjected to all the Inconveniencies which rendered
the passing the two Laws, I have now mentioned, necessary.
The Officers who must be concerned in the Prize-Offices,
would, I believe, have as clammy Fingers as any of their
Predecessors, and the brave Sailors, be as much imposed upon.
A Bill for remedying these Inconveniences cannot be objected
to, but by those who wish this Nation no Success in any Thing
undertaken for the common Good. I am indeed sorry, that the
Regulations contained in the two Acts I have mentioned, were
not made perpetual; which might then casily have been done,
because it might have been enacted, that they should at the
Beginning of every future War be revived by his Majesty's Proclamation, and that they should then continue in
Force, till his Majesty put a Stop to them by a new Proclamation: This, I think, Sir, was a Fault; and as we are now
in Danger of being involv'd in a War before next Session of
Parliament, we ought therefore, in this Session, to repair that
Fault or Oversight, by enacting, that in case of a War with
Spain, these several Regulations should be revived. The Bill, Sir,
which I intend to move for, is calculated for this and no
other Purpose; for as it introduces no new Law, nor proposes
the establishing any Regulations, of which we have had no
Experience; as its only Intention is to revive some former
temporary Regulations, that were found to be of great Advantage during the last War; it can occasion no Jealousy or
Suspicion in any British Subject, nor can it give Uneasiness
to any Man that wishes well to Great Britain. It may indeed
give some Uneasiness and Concern to the Court of Spain,
because it will convince them we are resolved not to be put
off any longer with tedious Negociations or sham Treaties:
That nothing will now prevail but granting us immediate
and full Satisfaction: And that if we send out any more
Squadrons, it will not be to pay them a Compliment,
but to pour down the Vengeance of Great Britain upon
them. This will be more effectual for preventing a War than
all the Treaties which we have been puzzling out for these
eighteen or twenty Years, and at the same Time be an Encouragement for our People at home, to contribute with Chearfulness their Proportion of the great Expences which the
present Situation of Affairs requires.
'The other Arguments, Sir, which may be advanced to
support the Bill, which I intend to move for, will perhaps
come more properly in another Time. At present I humbly
move, that the sixth and eighth Sections of an Act made in
the sixth Year of the Reign of Queen Anne, intituled An
Act for the better securing the Trade of this Kingdom by Cruizers
and Convoys; and also the second Section of an Act made
the same Year, intituled, An Act for the Encouragement of
the Trade to America, may be read.
The Question being put, the same were read accordingly.
Sir Robert Walpole spoke next:
Sir Robert Walpole.
Sir,
'I believe Gentlemen will be pretty much disappointed,
when I assure them that I do not rise up to oppose this Bill,
hinted at by the honourable Gentleman who spoke last.
I am for my own Part persuaded, when it comes before the
House, that it will appear a very improper Bill at this Juncture, and I will undertake to prove it so. I cannot however avoid taking notice how different the Time and the
Manner in which the two Bills mentioned were brought in,
is from the Time and Manner in which the honourable Gentleman proposes to bring in his Bill.
'As to the Time Sir, the two former Bills were passed,
after the Nation had been five or six Years in actual War;
therefore neither we nor our Allies could suffer by any precipitate Declaration of such a Measure as this is. By these
Bills, Sir, we did not make one Nation in Europe our Enemy;
we gave no Jealousy to our Allies; we put the Crown under
no Difficulties: But I shall submit it to Gentlemen's Consideration, how far it is possible to avoid these Inconveniences,
should such a Bill pass at present. It would perhaps, Sir, be
looked upon as anticipating the Debate, should I enter
upon any Discussion of our present Situation at home and
abroad. That is a Consideration which will be much more
proper when the Bill is brought before us. Thus much only
I will venture to say, that I shall never be either afraid or
ashamed of opposing any Bill, which may tend to plunge
this Nation into a ruinous and perhaps doubtful War.
'Having said thus much, Sir, with regard to the Timing
of this Bill, give me leave just to touch upon the Manner in
which it was brought in. I am old enough, Sir, to remember,
that when the two Bills passed in the sixth Year of Queen
Anne for the Purposes mentioned by the honourable Gentleman, were brought in, the Crown had previously given
up its Title to the Share which it claimed in the Prizes.
We had likewise some Regard to the Rights of the Lord
High Admiral. Gentlemen will consider if we can properly
bring in any Bill of this Nature, without some previous Steps
of that Kind: However, as I am intirely ignorant of the
Shape in which the Bill may appear, I shall not oppose its
being brought in.
Sir William Windham spoke next:
Sir Will Windham.
Sir,
'The honourable Gentleman who spoke last, did not indeed oppose the Motion for bringing in this Bill, but he
took care to let Gentlemen know that he thought it a very
wrong Thing to bring it in at all. But I hope Gentlemen
will not for all that be so far prepossessed against it as to
think it a bad Bill, because one Gentleman does not think it
fit for his Purpose. As to what the honourable Gentleman
said about the Time in which this Bill is moved for; instead
of being sorry with him that it is too precipitate, I am sorry
we are so late in moving it. We are not indeed in actual
War at present with the Spaniards, but I am very sure they
are at War with us, and have been so these twenty Years;
therefore it is now high Time for us to shew them that we
dare make War upon them.
'The honourable Gentleman's other Objection was to the
Manner in which this Bill is to be brought in. I believe, Sir,
it is as regularly moved for as any other Bill of the same or
a like Nature ever was. We have indeed had no previous
Notice from the Crown of a Cession of its Right in the
Prizes; but I apprehend there is no Occasion for it, as will
appear when the Bill is brought in. As to what the honourable Gentleman said about the Crown's previously
giving up its Share in the Prizes, if it is Fact, it discovered
great Wisdom and Honesty in the then Ministry, in advising the Crown to such a Cession; but I apprehend the Cession which the honourable Gentleman means, was no other
than a Pargraph in a Speech from the Throne, three or four
Years before the Acts from which you have heard the Paragraphs read were passed, and which I believe had no Weight
with the House of Commons which passed these Acts. The
honourable Gentleman mentioned the Rights of the Lord
High Admiral. If the Lord High Admiral has any Claim
against this Bill, I dare say the Gentleman, in whom that
great Office is now vested, will take care that no future Lord
High Admiral shall suffer for Want of an Opposition to any
Invasions upon his Rights: So I hope Gentlemen will
not be amused by any Assertions or Insinuations, as if this
Bill were disrespectful to the Crown, or prejudicial to any of
the great Officers; it can be of Prejudice to none but to those
who are so to the Nation.'
Motion by Mr. Pulteney for the Bill.
Mr. Pulteney then made a Motion, seconded by Mr. Sandys, that Leave be given to bring in a Bill for the more effectual securing and encouraging the Trade of his Majesty's
Subjects to America; which was ordered accordingly, and
Order'd, That Mr. Pulteney, Mr. Sandys, and the Lord
Mayor of London do prepare and bring in the same.
The Bill presented.
Monday, May 8. Mr. Pulteney presented to the House according to Order the said Bill, and it was read a first Time.
Committed.
Tuesday, May 9. It was according to Order read a second
Time, and committed to a Committee of the whole House
for May 11.
Thursday May 11. The Orders of the Day being read, it
was resolved,
Resolution to commit it.
That this House will To-morrow Morning resolve itself
into a Committee of the whole House upon the Bill for the
more effectual securing and encouraging the Trade of his Majesty's British Subjects to America.