Proceedings in the Commons, 1601
November 21st - 25th

Sponsor

History of Parliament Trust

Publication

Author

Heywood Townshend

Year published

1680

Pages

236-253

Citation Show another format:

'Proceedings in the Commons, 1601: November 21st - 25th', Historical Collections:: or, An exact Account of the Proceedings of the Four last Parliaments of Q. Elizabeth (1680), pp. 236-253. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=43556 Date accessed: 20 April 2014. Add to my bookshelf


Highlight

(Min 3 characters)

November 21st - 25th

Saturday, Novemb. 21.

On Saturday, Novemb. 21. A Bill for Explanation of the Statute made 21 Hen. 8. Cap. . touching Loading, and Unloading of Merchandize; the first time Read.

A Bill for the Reducing of those which be Brewers, within the City of London, and Suburbs thereof, and within Two Miles Compass of the same, into the said Company of the said City.

A Bill to Enable Sir Anthony Maney, Knight, and Anthony Maney, Esquire, his Son, to make Sale of certain Lands of John Maney, his Father, Deceased; Read the first time.

A Bill for Levying of Fines with Proclamation, of Lands within the County of the City of Chester; put in the Sixteenth of November, 1601. The Substance of the Bill is; That Fines Levied before the Mayor, at the Portmoot-Court, should be Available; and the Conusors of Fines may take by Dedimus potestat. Vide 2 Edvardi 6. Cap. and 21 Hen. 7. Cap.

A Bill for Fines with Proclamation, within the County of Chester.

Mr. Wingfeild brought in the Bill for Dreined Grounds.

Sir Edward Hobby said: A Gentleman, a Good Member of this House, (Sir John Gray) was Served with a Subpœna in Chancery, Ad Respondendum 30 Nov. ad sectam Roberti Atkins. If no Order be taken herein, I think for my own Part, both the House, and the Privileges thereof, will grow in Contempt. I wish, that the Serjeant way be sent for the Party, and that some Exemplary Punishment may be inflicted.

Mr. Doyley said: Mr. Speaker, We spend much time (which is now Precious) in Disputing of Privileges, and other Matters of small Importance: For my own Part, I think no time should be spent herein; but that a Writ of Privilege may be Granted.

Mr. Johnson said: Mr. Speaker, Our own Lenity, is the Cause of this Contempt. And until some special Punishment be Inflicted it will not be otherwise.

Mr. Francis Moore brought in the Bill touching Sir Francis Seymor, Knight.

A Bill to avoyd the deceitful Stretching, or Tentoring of Woollen Cloths, Committed to the former Committees of Woollen Cloths.

Sir Edward Seymor's Bill was put to the Question, and Ordered to be Ingrossed.

A Bill for the Erecting and making an Harbour or Key on the North-part of Devon, in the mouth of the River Severn, was read.

Mr. Zacharias Locke said: Mr. Speaker, I am not against this Bill, it is a Commendable piece of work; but, Mr. Speaker, methinks the Bill yeildeth too great scope of Fishing into the Sea; which how Prejudiciall it may be to the Office of the Lord Admiral, or to his Successors, or to the Royalty of any other, I know not; therefore, That the Bill may have the safer Passage, I wish it may be Considered of at a Commitment.

A Bill for the Assurance of a Joynture, to Lucy Countess of Bedford, Committed, and the meeting to be in the ExchecquerChamber upon Wednesday, in the Afternoon, at two of the Clock.

A Bill for the Observation of certain Orders in the Exchecquer, set down under her Majesties Privy-Seal.

And the Bill to Enable Mr. Edmond Markham, to dispose of his Lands whereof he is Tenant in Tayl, as other Tenants in Tayl, by the Laws and Statutes of this Realm, may do.

The question upon the Checquer-Bill, grew, Whether before Commitment, the Counsel of the Clerks of Mr. Osborne's Office should be had, in respect of Mr. Wingfeild moved, The old Officers might be heard, by their Councel.

Mr. Bacon said: 'I did rather yeildingly accept, than forwardly imbrace this labour imposed upon me. I Wish the Councel may be heard, because we shall have the more time of consideration, what to do. There is nothing so great an impediment to certainty of prevailing, as hast and earnestness in prosecuting; I therefore think it fit, that they may have time Assigned them to proceed by Councel.

Mr. Martyn.

Mr. Martyn said: 'Mr. Speaker, Here is a new Bill sprung out of the old; it hath a smooth face, and I think the inward part of the Bill is answerable to the Exterior. I am utterly against that they should have Councel; they have had time enough already to consider of it. If their Councel be now without, it were good we heard them; if not, I hold it best to proceed to the Question. Then the house cryed, To the Question for Commitment; and it was Committed: and it was agreed, that they should have their Counsel there.

Then the Question was, when the Commitment should be? some said this Afternoon, others Monday; but being put to the Question, the House was divided, and the I,I,I, were 98, and the Noes, 181. and so Monday was agreed on.

At the Commitment, in the Afternoon, touching Monopolies.

Sir Edw. Stanhop against Patentees.

'Sir Edward Stanhop informed the House, of the great Abuse by the Patentee for Salt in his Country; that betwixt Michaelmas and Saint Andrews tide, where Salt was wont, before the Patent, to be sold for Sixteen pence a Bushel, it is now sold for Fourteen and Fifteen shillings a Bushel; but after the Lord President had understood thereof, he Committed the Patentee, who caused it to be sold as before. This Patent was granted to Sir Thomas Wilks, and after to one Smith. To Lynn there is every year brought at least Three Thousand weight of Salt: and every weight, since this Patent, is inhanced Twenty shillings; and where the Bushel was wont to be Eight pence, it is now Sixteen pence. And, I dare boldly say it, if this Patent were called in, there might well be Three Thousand Pounds a year saved in the Ports of Lynn, Boston, and Hull. I speak this of white Salt.

Mr. Fr. Bacon against the Bill, but Moves to go by way of Petition.

Mr. Francis Bacon said: 'The Bill is very injurious, and ridiculous: Injurious, in that it taketh, or rather sweepeth away her Majesties Prerogative; and Ridiculous, in that there is a Proviso, That this Statute shall not extend to Grants made to Corporations. That is a gull to sweeten the Bill withall, it is only to make Fools Fond. All men of the Law know, that a Bill which is only Expository to Expound the Common-Law, doth Enact nothing, neither is any Proviso good therein. And therefore the Statute of 34. Hen. 8. of Wills, (which is but an Act expository of the Statute of 32. Hen. 8. of Wills) touching Sir John Bonfords Will, was adjudged void. Therefore I think the Bill unfit, and our proceedings to be by Petition.

Mr. Solicitor's Acount of the Queen's intentions.

Mr. Solicitor Fleming said: I will briefly give you an account of 'all things touching these Monopolies: Her Majesty, in her provident care, gave Charge to Mr. Atturney and my self, That speedy and special course, may be taken for these Patents. This was in the beginning of Hillary-Term last. But you all know the danger of that time, and what great Affairs of importance happen'd to prevent that business. Since that, nothing could be done therein for want of Leisure.

Sir Rob. Wroth.

Sir Robert Wroth said: 'I would but Note, Mr. Solicitor, That you were charged to take Care in Hillary-Term last. Why not before? There was time enough ever since the last Parliament; I speak it, and I speak it boldly, These Patentees are worse than ever they were. And I have heard a Gentleman affirm in this House, That there is a Clause of Reversion in these Patents. If so, what needed this stir, by Quo warranto, and I know not what? when it is but to send for the Patents, and cause a redelivery.

'There have been diverse Patents granted since the last Par 'liament; these are now in being, viz. The Patents for Currants, Iron, Powder, Cards, Hornes, Oxe Shin-bones, Traine Oyle, Lists of Cloath, Ashes, Bottles, Glasses, Baggs, Shreds of Gloves, Aniseed, Vinegar, Sea-Coales, Steele, Aqua-vite, Brushes, Pots, Salt, Salt-Petre, Lead, Accedence, Oyle, Transportation of Leather, Callamint-stone; Oyle of Blubber, Fumothoes, or dried Pilchers in the smoak, and divers others.

Mr. Hackwell.

'Upon Reading of the Patents aforesaid, Mr. Hackwell of Lincolns-Inn stood up, and asked this, Is not Bread there? Bread, quoth another? This voice seems strange quoth a third: No quoth Mr. Hackwell, but if order be not taken for these, Bread will be there, before the next Parliament.

Mr. Townshend.

'Mr. Townshend of Lincolns-Inn (the Collector of this Journal) seeing the disagreement of the Committees, and that they could agree upon nothing, made a Motion to this effect: First, to put them in mind of a Petition made the last Parliament, which though it took no effect, we should much wrong her Majesty, and forget our selves, if we should think to speed no better in the like Case now; because there was a Commitment for this purpose, and the Committees drew a Speech, which was deliver'd by the Speaker word for word at the end of the Parliament. But now, we might hope, that by the sending of our Speaker, presently after such a Committee, and Speech made, with humble Suit, not only to Repeal all Monopolies Grievous to the Subject; but also, that it would please Her Majesty to give us leave to make an Act, that they might be of no more force, validity or Effect, than they are at the Common Law, without the strength of her Prerogative: which though we might now do, and the Act being so reasonable, we did assure our selves Her Majesty would not deny the passing thereof; yet we her Majesty Loyal and Loving Subjects, would not offer without Her Privity or Consent, (the Cause so nearly touching Her Prerogative) or go about the doing of any such Act. And also, that at the Committee, which should make this Speech, every Member of this House, which either found Himself, his Town, or Country grieved, might put in, in fair Writeing, such Exceptions and Monopolies as he would justify to be true. And that the Speaker might deliver them with his own hand, because many hinderances might happen.

Mr. Bacon.

Mr. Francis Bacon, after a long Speech, Concludeth 'thus in the end: 'Why you have the readiest course that could be possibly devised, I would wish no further Order to be taken, but to Prefer the Wise and Discreet Speech made by the young Gentleman, even the youngest in the Assembly, that last spake; I'le tell you, That even ex ore Infantium & lactantium, the true and most certain Course is propounded unto us.

So the House parted, and agreed to meet on Monday in the afternoon; at which time, all the said Matters passed.

Sunday November 22.

Monday November 23.

On Monday November 23. An Act to Restrain the Abuse in Tayntoring, and other Abuses in Clothing.

The Bill for Hospitals, was this day read.

A Bill for Dreining of Grounds and Fenns, preferr'd by Mr. Wingfeild.

The Bill for Mr. Markham was brought in: And for as much as the Purport of the Bill seemed to the Committees to be dangerous, to the Disinheriting of the Children of the first Wife of the said Mr. Markham; therefore the Committee thought the Bill, in Equity, unfit to be Passed, and without Amendment have returned it to the House.

The Bill for enabling of Anthony Manley, Esquire, to sell certain Lands, this Day Read, and Ordered to be Committed.

Inconveniencies arising from the Monopolies, in raising the Prices of several Goods.

There was a Gentleman that sat by me, which shewed me a Paper, in which was contained the Discommodity of divers Patents, called Monopolies. First, of Steel, where it hath been sold to Mr. Rowland Heyward in London, in former times, for Twelve Pounds, Ten Shillings the Barrel; it is now sold for Nineteen Pounds. Besides, it is mixt, and worse than the Steel in former times; and where it hath been but at Two Pence HalfPenny the Pound, before the Patent, it is now at Five Pence the Pound. And where Two Thousand Poor people were maintained, by Working of Steel, and Edge-Tooles, and might well live by Working thereof at Two Pence Half-Penny the Pound, they are now not able, by reason of the Price thereof, to work; but now many go a Begging, because the Faggot hath also less Weight, to the utter undoing of all Edge-Toole-Makers.

Of Starch: Where other Countries have heretofore spent their Corn and Fuel in making of it, and we had it then at Eighteen Shillings a Hundred Weight, and Her Majesty Received great Custom thereby; now do we spend Corn and Fuel extraordinary in making thereof, which might well be spared, and it is now at Fifty and Fifty Six Shillings a Hundred; and her Majesty hath great loss of her Customes, by making it within the Realm.

Playing Cards: Every Subject that would, before the Patent, might make them, which was a great help to those that were brought up in the Trade. And where in former times they were sold at Twenty Pence a Dozen, now they are at Three Shillings, and Three Shillings Two Pence the Dozen. And before, every Subject might see what he bought, and make choice to his liking. Now they are Sealed, and no Man can see what he Buyes. Besides, the Deputies and Substitutes of these Patentees, will search Houses by force of Letters of Assistance, of Lords of the Privy-Councel, under Colour of Cards being there. And if they find a pair or two, they will carry Men by some Pur suivant Fifty Miles or more; and threaten them by Imprisonment, if they will not Ransom themselves by a Ransom of Money.

Stone-Bottles, Pots, Heath-Brushes, are double and treble the Price they were at, before the Patent.

Glasses; Where before they were had from beyond the Seas, and very cheap, with much Saving of Wood; they are now risen from Sixteen Pence to Five Shillings the Dozen, and from Three Shillings Four Pence, to Nine Shillings, Besides the loss of Custome to her Majesty, and expence of many Thousands of Billets, every Twenty Four Hours. This Patent is a great discouragement to the Masters of Ships, because the Substitutes of the Patentees will Imprison them, until they will become bound to bring no Glasses from beyond the Sea. Besides, there is continual spoile of Woods in Sussex, and else-where by Glassmaking.

Beere-Eager, Vinegar, Aqua-Vitæ, be it never so bad, if the Patentee hath his Imposition, it passeth for good: The like for Sea-Coals, Salt, Ordnance, Tinn, Leather, and Wines.

A Bill for true Making of Cloth.

A Bill for the true Making of Cloth; after it was once Read, one stood up, and said:

One opposes it.

Mr. Speaker, I think this Bill both Idle and Injurious; Idle, in respect that a Number of Bills are to the same Effect already: Injurious, in that it layeth a greater Tax upon every Piece of Cloth, than Her Majesty's Custom desireth.

We are all here like Physicians; who, when they are to minister Physick to the Sick Patient, and have many Simples before them, be Distracted, and make a Mixture of so many, that they Kill the Patient: So we, Mr. Speaker, if by good Providence we look not to it, shall not Redress the waining and decrepid Estate of Clothing, if we do not at a Commitment, carefully consider of all the Bills. There are now Five of these Bills, concerning Clothing: And I pray also, This, with the rest may be committed to the former Committees, to consider of.

The Bill of Monopolies was read; to which, Mr. Spicer spake, and said:

I think it were good this Bill were Committed. I am no Apostate, but I stick to my former Faith; and upon that, asserted the first Faith I was of, That by way of Petition will be our safest Course: For it is to no purpose, to offer to tye Her Majesty's Hands by way of Act of Parliament, when She may loose Her Self at Her Pleasure. I think it were a Course nec Gratum, nec Tutum; and therefore, the best Way, to have a Committee to consider what Course shall be proceeded in: For I doubt not, but that we are all Agreed on the Reformation, though not on the Manner.

Mr. Davies.

Mr. Davies said: God hath given Power to Absolute Princes, which he Attributeth to Himself; Dixi quod Dii estis: And, as Attributes unto them, he hath given them Majesty, Justice, and Mercy. Majesty, in respect of the Honour that the Subject sheweth unto his Prince. Justice, in respect he can do no Wrong. Therefore, the Law is, 1 Hen. 7. That the King cannot commit a Disseisin. Mercy, in respect he giveth Leave to his Subjects, to Right themselves by Law. And therefore, in the 44 Ass. an Indictment was brought against Bakers and Brewers; for that, by colour of License, they had broken the Assize: wherefore, according to that Precedent, I think it most fit to Proceed by Bill, and not by Petition.

Secretary Cecil against the Bill.

Mr. Secretary Cecil said: 'If there had not been some Mistaking, or Confusion in the Committee, I would not have now spoken. The Question was, Of the most convenient Way to Reform these Grievances of Monopolies. But, after Disputation of that Labour, we have not Received the expected Fruit.

'If every Man should take Leave to Speak for the Common Subject, I am afraid, in these vast Powers of our Minds, we shall Dispute the Project and Reformation quite out of Doors.

'This Dispute draws Two great Things in question: First, The Prince's Power. Secondly, The Freedom of English-Men. I am Born an English-Man, and a Fellow-Member of this House; I would desire to Live no Day, in which I should Detract from Either.

'I am Servant to the Queen; and before I would speak, or give my consent to a Case that should debase Her Prerogative, or abridge it, I would wish my Tongue cut out of my Head. I am sure there were Law-Makers, before there were Laws.

'One Gentleman went about to possess Us with the Execution of the Law, in an Antient Record of 50 Edvardi 3. Likely enough to be True in that Time, when the King was afraid of the Subject. Though this Presence be a Substance, yet it is not the whole Substance of the Parliament; For in former Times, all Sate together; as well King, as Subjects: And then, it was no Prejudice to His Prerogative, to have such a Monopoly Examined.

He gives the Speaker a Caution.

'If you stand upon Law, and dispute of the Prerogative, hark what Bracton faith; Prerogativam nostram nemo audeat Disputare, &c.

'For my own Part, I like not these Courses should be taken. And you, Mr. Speaker, should perform the Charge Her Majesty gave unto you at the Beginning of this Parliament, Not to receive Bills of this Nature. For Her Majesty's Ears be open to all our Grievances, and Her Hands stretched out to every Man's Petition.

'For the Matter of Access, I like it well, so it be first moved, and the Way prepared. I had rather all the Patents were burnt, than Her Majesty should lose the Hearts of so many Subjects, as is pretended She will.

'I will tell you what I think of these Monopolies; I take them to be of Three Natures: Some of a Free Nature, and Good; some Void of themselves; some both Good, and Void.

'For the First; For the Prince to Dispense with Penal Laws: That is left to the Alteration of Sovereignty; I mean, Powertul and Irrevocable.

'For the Second: As to grant that which taketh from the Subject his Birth-right; and such Men as desire such Patents, I count them Misdoers, and wicked and wilful Offenders.

'For the Third: As the License for the Matter of Cards, &c. And therefore, I think it very fit to have a New Commitment, to consider what Her Majesty may grant, and what not; And what Course we shall take, and upon what Points, &c.

Dr. Stanhop, and Dr. Hone, were sent from the Lords with a Bill, Entituled, An Act for the Uniting of Eye and Dunsden, to the Mannor of Sunning.

Mr. Mountague.

Mr. Mountague said: Mr. Speaker, I am loth to Speak what I know, lest perhaps I should Displease. The Prerogative Royal is that which is now in question, and which the Laws of the Land have ever allowed and maintained. My Motion then shall be but this: That we may be Suitors unto Her Majesty, That the Patentees shall have no other Remedies, than by the Laws of the Realm they may have; and that our Act may be drawn accordingly.

Mr. Martin.

Mr. Martin said: I think the Common Grievance, and the Queens's Prerogative, have so Inspired the Gentleman that last spake, (whom for Reverence sake, I must needs name, Mr. Mountague) to make that Motion he hath done. And because the House seems greatly to Applaud it, may it please you, Mr. Speaker, to put it to the Question, Whether that shall be Determined of, at the Committee.

So it was again Committed to the Afternoon; and agreed, That as well That, as Mr. Secretary's Motion, should be Determined upon by the said Committee.

Mr. Francis Moore brought in a New Bill against Pluralities of Benefices, with the same Title as the former.

At the Committee in the Afternoon, touching Monopolies.

A List of certain Monopolies, and to whom Granted.

A Gentleman shewed me a Note of certain Monopolies, and to whom Granted; viz.

1. To Sir Henry Nevill, the Patent for Ordnance.

2. To Simon Farmor, the Patent for Lists, Shreads, and Horns to be Transported.

3. To Henry Noell, the Patent for Stone-Pots and Bottles.

4. To Brian Ansley, the Patent for Steel.

5. To Elizabeth Matthews, the Patent of Oyl of Blubber.

6. To Richard Drake, the Patent for Aqua-Composita, and AquaVitæ.

7. To Michael Stanhopp, the Patent for Spanish-Wools.

8. To Thomas Cornwallis, a License to keep unlawful Games.

9. To Mr. Carr, a Patent for Brewing of Beer to be Transported.

10. To John Spillman, a Patent to make Paper.

11. To Edward Darcy, a Patent for Cards.

12. To Mr. John Packington, a Patent for Starch.

13. To Sir Walter Rawleigh, a Patent for Wines.

The Patent for Bottles, was lately made void by Judgment in the Exchecquer.

Mr. Davies.

Mr. Davies moved the House first: That he for his part, thought the Proceeding by Bill to be most Convenient; for the Precedent in the 50 Edvardi 3. warranteth the same: And therefore, let us do Generously and Bravely, like Parliament-Men; and our selves send for Them, and their Patents, and Cancel them before their Faces; Arreign them, as in times past, at the Bar, and send them to the Tower; there to remain, until they have made a good Fine to the Queen, and made some part of Restitution to some of the Poorest that have been oppressed by them. And withal, Laughed.

Mr. Martin.

Mr. Martin, after a long Speech made, touching these Monopolies, he thus concluded: And therefore, the Gentleman that last spake, spake most Honestly, Learnedly, and Stoutly. Yet thus much I must needs say, His Zeal hath masked his Reason; and that, I think, was the Cause of his fervent Motion; which I desire may be cooled with a Petition, in most dutiful Manner, and humblest Terms, most fitting to the Majesty of the Queen, and the Gravity of this House. So, I doubt not, but our Actions will have prosperous, and successful Event.

Secretary Cecil reads a List of Patentees, and their several Patents.

Mr. Secretary Cecil read a Paper of Three or Four Sheets openly, of all the Patents granted since 16 Reginæ. And first he read, in the 17th. of the Queen, A Patent to Robert Sparke, to make Spangles, and Owes of Gold.

18 Reginæ, A Patent to Sir Edward Dier, To Pardon, Dispense, and Release all Forfeitures and Abuses committed by Tanners, contrary to the Statute.

19 Reginæ, A Patent to VVilliam VVade, Esquire, & aliis, For the making of Sulphur, Brimstone, and Oyl.

A Patent to James Chambers, To give License for Tanning, contrary to the Statute.

30 Reginæ, A Patent to Sir VValter Rawleigh, Of Tonnage and Poundage of VVines.

To John Asbley, & aliis, A Patent, For Benefit of Forfeiture of Buying of S—.

The List of Patents, and Patentees.

To William VVatkins, & aliis, A Patent, To Print Almanacks.

A Patent to—To Print David's Psalms.

A Patent to one Kirke, & aliis, To take the Benefit of Sowing Flax and Hemp.

A Patent to Richard VVelch, To Print the History of Cornelius Tacitus.

A Patent to—To Transport Iron and Tynn.

A Patent to John Norden, To Print Speculum Brittaniæ.

A Patent to—To Print the Psalms of David, according to the Hebrew Text.

A Patent to certain Merchants, To Traffick.

A Patent to Sir Jerom Bowes, To make Glasses.

A Patent to—To Provide and Transport Lists and Shreds.

Anno 35 Reginæ, A Patent to Henry Noell, To make StonePots, &c.

A License to William Aber, To Sow Six Hundred Acres of Ground with Oade.

A Patent to Mr. Heale, To provide Steel beyond the Seas.

A Patent to—To have One Shilling upon ever Hogshead of Pilchards.

A Patent to—To have the Benefit of Forfeiture by Gigmills.

A Patent to Elizabeth Mathews, For Train-Oyl of Blubber.

A Patent to Richard Drake, For Aqua-Composita, Aqua-Vitæ, Vinegar, and Alegar.

A Patent to Robert Alexander, For Aniseeds.

A Patent to Edward Dacry, For Steel.

A Patent to Michael Stanhop, For Spanish-Wools.

A Patent to Valentine Harris, To Sow Six Hundred Acres of Ground with woade.

A Patent to—To take Benefit of the Statute for Gashing of Hides, &c.

A Patent to Mr. Cornwallis, For unlawful Games.

A Patent to Henry Singer, Touching Printing of SchoolBooks.

A License to Arthur Bassaney, To Transport Six Thousand CalfSkins.

A Patent to Edward Darcy, To Provide, Bring, Make, and Utter Cards.

A Patent to Thomas Morley, To Print Songs in Parts.

A Patent to Sir John Packeington, For Starch and Ashes.

A Patent to—To make Mathematical Instruments.

A Patent to—To make Salt - Peter.

A Patent to Thomas Wight, and Bonham Norton, To Print the Law-Books.

A Patent to—For Livers of Fishes.

A Patent to—For Polldavis, for Fishing.

After the Reading of which Note, nothing was Concluded upon; but a Meeting appointed on Tuesday in the Afternoon.

Tuesday, Novemb. 24.

On Tuesday, Novemb. 24. A Bill declaring the Lordship of Llandan, alias Llandaugher, to be within the County of Carmarthin, was Read the second time, and Committed; and the Time and Place appointed for their Meeting, to be to Morrow in the Afternoon, in the Middle-Temple-Hall.

A Bill to Enable Edward Moleneux, Esq; to sell Lands for the Payment of Debts and Legacies.

A Bill for Painting, was Read and Committed.

A Motion was made by Mr. Doyley of Lincolns-Inn, That be fore Mr. Moleneux's Bill was put to the Question, his Councel for the Passage thereof, might be Heard; as also, Mr. Moleneux himself, (a Councellor of Grays-Inn) who came to spake against the Bill. And they were admitted to the Bar to speak; where it was alledged against the Bill, by the said Mr. Moleneux of Grays-inn; That it was drawn of purpose to Defeat himself, and his Brother, and a few Children-Infants, and Fatherless; which could not be Answer'd by Mr. Hitcham, of Councel with the other Moleneux for the Bill: Which Reason quashed it. And so, after they were put out, the Bill was put to the Question for Ingrossing; and the greater Voyce was, No. So it was Rejected.

Sir Francis Hastings brought in the Bill against Ale-Houses, and Tippling-Houses.

Sir Edmund Morgan, a Member of this House, was served with a Supœna, at the Suit of one Lemney; who was sent for by the Serjeant.

Mr. Pemberton, another Member of this House, was also served with a Subpœna, at the Suit of one Mackernes; who was also sent for by the Serjeant.

A Bill to prevent Double-Payment of Debts, upon ShopBooks.

Mr. Phillips shews the Danger of an Old Statute, touching Charatable Uses.

Mr. Phillips, shewed the Great danger that might insue, by the Statute made 39 Reginæ, Cap. 6. Intituled, An Act touching Charitable Uses: which Statute was made to a good intent; but yet it may tend to the setting a Foot, in all the Monasteries in old time, and other Religious Houses, as also to the searching into the estate of divers particular Subjects, in this Realm: First, In respect of the Title; Secondly, Inrespect of the Preamble; Thirdly, Inrespect of the Body; And Fourthly, In respect of the Conclusion, which appeared some-what plain to the House, upon the Recital of the words of the Statute: And therefore, he thought it a Duty in Conscience, to offer to the Consideration of this House, a Bill entituled, An Act to Explain the true Meaning of the Statute made 39 Reginæ, cap. 6. Which was presently Read.

After some loud Confusion in the House, touching some Private Murmur concerning Monopolies;

Secretary Cecil about Monopolies.

Mr. Secretary Cecil said: The Duty I owe, and my Zeal to Exstinguish Monopolies, makes me to Speak now, to satisfie their Opinions that think there shall be no Redress of these Monopolies.

Order is Attended with these Two Hand-Maids, Gravity and Zeal; but Zeal with Discretion. I have been, though Unworthy, a Member of this House, in Six or Seven Parliaments; yet never did I see the House in so great Confusion.

I believe, there was never, in any Parliament, a more tender Point handled, than the Liberty of the Subject, and the Prerogative Royal of the Prince: What an Indignity then is it to the Prince, and Injury to the Subject, that when any is Discussing this Point, he should be Cryed and Coughed down? This is more fit for a Grammar-School, than a Parliament. I have been a Councellor of State these Twelve Years; yet never did I know it subject to Constructi- on of Levity or Disorder: Much more ought we to be, in so Great and Grave an Assembly. Why? we have had Speeches, and speech upon Speech, without either Order or Discretion.

One would have had us to proceed by Bill, and see if the Queen would have denyed it. Another, that the Patents should be brought here before Us, and Cancelled; and this were Bravely done. Others would have Us to proceed by way of Petition; which of Both, doubtless is Best.

But for the First, (and especially, for the Second) It is so Ridiculous, that I think, We should have had as bad Success, as the Devil himself would have wished in so good a Cause. Why? if Idle Courses had been followed, we should have gone (for sooth) to the Queen, with a Petition to have Repealed a Patent or Monopoly of Tobacco-Pipes [Which Mr. wingfeild's Note had] and I know not how many Conceipts.

But I with every Man to rest satisfied, until the Committees have brought in their Resolutions, according to your Commandments.

A Bill for making the Parks of Noblemen, and Gentlemen of the Realm, for the Keeping and Breeding of Horses.

Wednesday, Novemb. 25.

On Wednesday, Novemb. 25. A Bill for Enlarging a Branch of the Statute of 25 Eliz. Cap. 8. touching Gashing of Hides.

A Bill concerning the Affize of Fuel.

A Bill for the Levying of Fines with Proclamation, of Lands within the County of the City of Chester.

A Bill for the Re-uniting of Eye and Dunsden, to the Mannor of Sunning; read the first Time.

A Bill For the enabling of Edward Nevil, of Burling in the County of kent Esq; and of Sir Henry Nevil his Son and Heir Apparent, to sell certain Coppy-hold-Lands.

This Act was brought in after Commitment, by Sir Edward Hobby, who at the delivery thereof, shewed to the House, That they had put out Esq; in the Title, in respect that they would not leave such a Title as Esq; for a Monument of Record in Parliament, lest perhaps, it might in After-ages be a prejudice to the Title of the Lord Abergaveny. Also we have (said he) left out all other Words, and Clauses touching that Point. As also have added a Proviso, For saving of the Right of the two Mr. Vanes, Sons to the Lady Vane, because the Elder of them layeth Title to the Barony. And thus they both being at the Committee, with their Councel, have given consent to the Bill: The Gentlemen are both in the House, and can testify as much.

Therefore, I think it good, it were put to the Question for Ingrossing. And so it was; and all said, I, I, I.

The Exchecquer-Bill was read.

The Bill against Trifling Suits, was put to the Question. And ordered to be Ingrossed.

The Bill to prevent Perjury and Subordination of Perjury, and unnecessary expences of Suits in Law.

A Bill to prevent the double Payment of Debts upon ShopBooks, which was put to the Question for the Ingrossing. And most said No.

The Speaker delivers a Message from the Queen.

Mr. Speaker, after a Silence (and every one marvailing why the Speaker stood up) spake to this Effect:

'It pleased Her Majesty to command me to attend upon Her 'Yesterday in the Afternoon: From whom, I am to deliver 'unto you all, Her Majesties most gratious Message, sent by my 'unworthy self.

'She yeildeth you all hearty thanks, for your care, and spe'cial regard of those things that concern Her State and King'dom, and Consequently our selves; whose Good She hath al'wayes tendred as Her own: For our speedy Resolution in 'making so hasty and free a Subsidy; which commonly suc'ceeded and never went before our Councels.

'For our Loyalty, I will assure you, with such and so great 'Zeal of Affection She uttered, and shewed the same, that to 'express it with our Tongues we are not able, neither our Hearts to conceive it. It pleased Her Majesty to say unto me, That 'if She had an Hundred Tongues, She could not express our 'hearty good Wills: And further, She said, That as She had 'ever held our Good, most dear; so the last Day of ours, or 'Her Life, should Witness it. And that if the least of Her Sub'jects were Grieved, and Her self not Touched, She appealed 'to the Throne of Almighty God; how careful She hath been, 'and will be to defend Her People from all Oppression.

'She said, That partly by Intimation of Her Councel, and 'partly by divers Petitions that have been Delivered unto Her, 'both going to Chappel, and also Walking abroad; She un'derstood, That divers Patents that She had granted, were grie'vous unto Her Subjects, and that the Substitutes of the Paten'tees, had used great Oppression. But, She said, She never 'assented to Grant any thing that was Malum in se. And if in 'the Abuse of Her Grant, there be any thing that is Evil, 'which She took Knowledge there was, She, Her self, would 'take present Order for Reformation thereof.

'I cannot Express unto you, the apparent indignation of Her 'Majesty, towards these Abuses. She said, Her Kingly Prero'gative was tender, and therefore desireth us not to speak or 'doubt of Her careful Reformation. For, She said, her Com'mandement given a little before the late Troubles (meaning the Earl of Essex's Matters) by the unfortunate event of them, was 'not so hindred, but that since that time, even in the midst 'of Her most weighty and great Occasions, She thought upon 'them. And that this should not Suffice, but that further Or'der should be taken presently, and not In futuro. (For that 'also was a Word which I take it, Her Majesty used) and that 'some should presently be Repealed, some Suspended, and not 'put in Execution: but such as should first have a Trial ac'cording to the Law, for the Good of Her People.

'Against the Abuses, Her Wrath was so Incensed, that, She 'said, She neither would, nor could suffer such to escape with 'Impunity.

'So to my unspeakable Comfort, She hath made me the 'Messenger of this Her gratious thankfulness, and care.

'Now we see, that the Axe of Her Princely Justice is put to 'the Root of the Tree. And so we see Her Gracious goodness 'hath prevented our Councels, and Consultations; for which 'God make us thankful, and send her long, and long to Reign 'amongst us.

'If through my own Weakness of Memory, Want of Utte'rance, and Frailty of my self, I have omitted any thing of 'Her Majesties Commands, I do most humbly crave pardon for 'the same; And do beseech, the Honourable Persons, which 'do assist this Chair, and were present before her Majesty, at 'the Delivery hereof, to supply and help my Imperfections, 'which, joyned with my Fear, have caused me, no doubt, to 'forget something that I should have Delivered unto you.

After a little Pause and Silence, the Councel talking one with another, Mr. Secretary Cecil stood up, and said.

Secretary Cecil Speaks to the same purpose.

'There needs no Supply of the Memory of the Speaker; but 'because he desires some that be about him, to aid his Deli'very, and because the rest of my Fellows be Silent; I will take 'upon me to Deliver something, which I both then heard and 'since know.

'I was present with the rest of my Fellow-Councellours, and 'the Message was the same, that hath been told you. And the 'cause hath not proceeded from any particular course thought 'upon, but upon private Information of some particular Per'sons. I have been very Inquisitive after them, and of the 'Cause, why more importunity was now used, than before; 'which I am afraid comes by being acquainted with some course 'of our Proceeding in this House.

'There are no Patents now of Force, which shall not pre'sently be revoked; for what Patent soever is Granted, there 'shall be left, to the overthrow of that Patent, a Liberty agree'able to the Law. There is no Patent, but if it be Malum in se, 'the Queen was ill apprised in Her Grant; but all to the gene'rality are unacceptable. I take it, there is no Patent where'of the Execution thereof, hath been Injurious; would that had 'never been Granted. I hope there shall never be more. (All 'the House said, Amen.)

'In particular, most of these Patents have been supported 'with Letters of Assistance from Her Majesties Privy Councel; 'but whosoever look upon them, they shall find they carry no 'other Style than with Relation to the Patent. I dare assure 'you, that from hence-forth there shall be no more Granted; 'and how many soever have been already Granted, they shall 'all be revoked.

'But, to whom do they repair with these Letters? To some 'out-house, to some desolate Widow, to some simple Cottage, 'or poor ignorant People; who rather than they would be trou 'bled, and undo themselves by coming up hither, they will give any thing in Reason for these Caterpillars Satisfaction. The Notice of this, is now publick. And you will, perhaps, judge this to be a Tale to serve the Time. But I would have all Men know thus much, That it's no jesting with a Court of Parliament; neither dares any Man (for mine own part I dare not) so much abuse all the Subjects of this Kingdom, in a Matter of this Consequence and Importance.

'I say therefore, there shall be a Proclamation granted through the Realm, to notify Her Majesty's Resolution in this behalf. And because you may Eat your Meats more Savourly than you have done;. every Man shall have Salt as cheap as he can buy it, or make it, freely without danger of that Patent, which shall be persently Revoked. The same Benefit shall they have which have cold Stomacks, both for Aqua-Vitæ, and the like: And they which have weak Stomacks, shall have Vinegar and Aleagar set at Liberty: Train-Oyl shall go the same Way; Oyl of Blubber shall March in the same Rank: Brusbes and Bottles indure the like Judgment. The Patent for Polldavis, if it be not called in, it shall be. Oade, which as I take it, is not restrained either by Law or Statute, but only by Proclamation (I mean from the Sowing thereof) though, for the saving thereof, it might receive good Disputation; yet for your Satisfaction, the Queen's Pleasure is, to revoke that Proclamation: Only She Prayeth thus much, That when She cometh in Progress to see you in the Country, She may not be driven out of your Towns, by suffering it to infect the Air too neer them. Those that desire to go Sprucely in their Ruffs, may with less charge than Accustomed, obtain their Wish; for Starch, which hath so much been Prosecuted, shall now be Repealed. There are other Patents for new Drapery, which shall be suspended, and left to Law: Irish-Yarn, a Matter I am sorry there is no cause of Complaint for; for the Savageness of the People, and the War, hath Frustrated the Hope of the Patentee, a Gentleman of good Service, and Desert, a good Subject to Her Majesty, and a good Member of the Common-Wealth (Mr. Carmarthen;) notwithstanding, it shall be suspended and left to the Law. The Patent for Calf-Skins, and Pelts, shall indure the Censure of the Law.

'But I must tell you, There is no Reason that all should be Revoked; for the Queen means not to be swept out of Her Prerogative: I say it shall be suspended, if the Law doth not warrant it. There is another Servant of her Majesties, (Mr. Anslow) one of Her Pensioners, an Honest Gentleman, and a Faithful Servant; he hath the Patent for Steel, which once Mr. Beal had; these, too, because of Complaints shall be suspended. There is another, that hath the Patent of Leather, Sir Edward Dier, a Gentleman of good Desert, Honest, Religious, and Wife. This was Granted unto him Thirty Years ago, it crept not in by the new Mis-government of the Time; yet this shall also be suspended. The Patent for Cards shall be 'suspended, and Tryed by Common-Law. The Patent for Glasses, which though I do least apprehend to be prejudicial to the Publick Good; yet it is to be lest to the Law. There is another Patent for Salt-Petre, that hath been both Accused and Slandered: It digs in every Man's House; it removes the Inhabitant, and generally troubleth the Subject. For this, I beseech you, be Contented; yet I know, I am too blame to desire it, being Condemned by you in foro Conscientiæ: But I assure you, it shall be fully sifted, and tryed in foro Judicii. Her Majesty meaneth to take this Patent to Her self; and advise with Her Councel, concerning the same: For, I must tell you, The Kingdom is not so well furnished with Powder, as it should be. But, if it be thought fit (upon Advice) to be Cancelled, Her Majesty commanded me to tell you, That though she be willing to help the grave Gentleman that hath that Patent; yet out of the abundant Desire that she hath, to give you compleat Satisfaction, it shall be Repealed.

'This hath come to the Ear of the Queen, and I have been most Earnest to search for the Instrument; and as a Councellor of State, have done my best Endeavour to salve this Sore: But I fear, we are not secret amongst our selves. Then must I needs give you This, for a future Caution; That whatsoever is subject to a Publick Exposition, cannot be Good. Why, Parliament-Matters are ordinarily Talked of in the Streets. I have heard my self, being in my Coach, these Words spoken aloud: God prosper those that further the Overthrow of these Monopolies! God send the Prerogative touch not our Liberty.

'I will not wrong any so much, as to imagine he was of this House; yet let me give you this Note, That the Time was never more apt to Disorder, or make Ill Interpretations of Good Meanings. I think those Persons would be glad that all Sovereignty were Converted into Popularity: We being here, are but the Popular Bouch, and our Liberty, the Liberty of the Subject; and the World is apt to slander, most especially the Ministers of Government.

'Thus much have I spoken, to accomplish my Duty, due unto Her Majesty; but not to make any further Performance of the well-utter'd, and gravely and truly-deliver'd Speech of the Speaker.

'But, I must crave your Favours a little longer, to make an Apology for my self. I have held the Favour of this House, as dear as my Life: And I have been told, That I deserved for taxing Yesterday of the House. I protest, my Zeal to have the Business go forwards in a right and hopeful Course, and my Fear to displease Her Majesty by a harsh and rash Proceeding, made me so much lay aside my Discretion, that I said, It might rather be termed a School, than a Councel; or to that Effect.

'But, if any think by this Speech, I called him School-Boy, he both Wrongs me, and Mistakes. Shall I tell you what Demosthenes said to the Clamours which the Athenians made? That 'they were Pueriles & dignos Pueris: And yet, that was a Popular State. And, I wish, that whatsoever is here spoken, may be Buried in these Walls. Let us take Example by the Jewish Synagogue, who would alwayes Sepelire Senatum cum Honore; and not blaze their own Follies and Imperfections. If any Man in this House speak Wisely, we do him great wrong to Interrupt him: If Foolishly, let us hear him out; we shall have the more Cause to Tax him. And I do heartily pray, That no Member of this House, may Plus verbis offendere, quam Concilio Juvare.

Mr. Fr. Moore.

Mr. Francis Moore said: 'I must confess, Mr. Speaker, I moved the House both the Last Parliament, and This, touching this Point; but I never meant (and I hope, this House thinketh so) to set Limits and Bounds to the Prerogative Royal.

'But now, seeing it hath pleased Her Majesty of Her Self, out of the Abundance of Her Princely Goodness, to set at Liberty Her Subjects, from the Thraldom of these Monopolies; from which there was no City, Town, or Country free: I would be bold to offer in one Motion, Two Considerations to the House.

'The First, That Mr. Speaker might go unto Her Majesty, to yield Her most Humble and Hearty Thanks; and withal, to shew the Joy of Her Subjects for their Delivery, and Thankfulness unto Her for the same.

'The Other, Whereas divers Speeches have been made Extravagantly in this House, which doubtless have been told Her Majesty; and perhaps, all ill Conceived of by Her: I would therefore, that Mr. Speaker not only should satisfie Her Majesty, by way of Apology therein; but also, humbly crave Pardon for the same.

Mr. Wingfeild.

Mr. Wingfeild said: 'My Heart is not able to conceive the Joy that I feel; and, I assure you, my Tongue cannot utter the same. If a Sentence of Everlasting Happiness had been Pronounced unto me, it could not have made me shew more outward Joy, than now I do; which I cannot refrain here to Express, (And, as I think, he wept.) There could nothing have been more Acceptable to the Subject, than this Message. And I verily think, That if ever any of Her Majesty's Words were Meritorious before God, I do think these are.

'I do agree, with all my Heart, in the First Part of the Gentleman's Motion, that last spake; but do utterly mislike the Latter: For, it is not to be intended, we should have had so Good and Gracious a Message, if the Truth of some particular Speeches had been delivered unto Her. And now, for us to Accuse our selves, by Excusing a Fault with which we are not Charged, were a thing (in my Opinion) inconvenient, and unfitting the Wisdom of this House.

Sir George Moore spake to the same Effect.

Mr. Fr. Bacon.

Mr. Francis Bacon spake to the same Effect also; and in the End concluded thus, Nescio quid peccati portet hæc Purgatio.

So it was put to the Question, and concluded, That Thanks should be Returned by the Speaker; and some a Dozen were named to go with him, as a convenient Number; and Intreaty made to the Privy-Councellors, to obtain Liberty of Her Majesty, to be Admitted.

A Bill for the Mending of the Statute made 8 Eliz. cap. 11. Entituled, An Act for the true Making of Hats and Caps; Read the second Time, and Committed: The Committee to meet at the Middle-Temple-Hall, on Saturday in the Afternoon.

A Bill limitting what Persons shall Make, Dye, and Retail Colour'd Clothes.

A Bill for the Furnishing Her Majesty's Navy-Royal, with good and sufficient Cordage, Read: The Substance of this Bill was the same with that the Bill of Hemp was, which hath been once Rejected this Parliament; and it hath a Limitation, to endure to the End of the next Parliament.

After a Speech made by Mr. Fettyplace, and Mr. Johnson of GraysInn (The First, For the Bill; the Other, Against it) Mr. Johnson said: Mr. Speaker, Old Parliament-Men say, A Bill once cast out, should not be read again. This Bill is the very same we once cast out; and I think it were very good, this Bill marched, Pari pede, with the Former.

Mr. Comptroller shewed, How necessary Cordage was to the Land, and also Flax and Hemp; which we might have in our own Land, if it happen'd, that Intercourse of Traffique were hindered in other Countries: And therefore, he wished, That a Bill of this Nature might not so slightly be Rejected; but, that it might be once again Read, and Committed.

The House upon this Bill, was Divided: The I, I, I, were 70. the Noes, 102.

The Bill for Landonerer.

Secretary Cecil.

Mr. Secretary Cecil said: 'If I should tell you otherwise than Truth, in a Matter of so great Consequence, I should need no other Process, than my own Conscience. That to so gracious a Message, there were never returned more Infinite Thanks, we all are assured. From the Queen, I have received a short Answer, in these words: You can give Me no more Thanks for that which I have promised You, than I can and will give You Thanks for that which You have already Performed, (Meaning the Subsidies and Fifteens.) So inseparably are the Qualities of the Prince, and the Subject, good for the one and the other. If by true Interpretation of the Law, Voluntas Reputatur pro facto, You shall not need (your Good-Will being already known) use any Actual Thanks; neither will She receive any, till by a more effectual Consummation, she hath Compleated that Work. At that time, she will be well pleased to receive your Loves, with Thanks; and to return You Her best Favours.

A Bill for the Granting of Four Subsidies, and Eight Fifteens.