December 11th - 15th
Friday Decemb. 11.
On Friday Decemb. 11. A Bill for the Reparation of two Bridges over the River of Eden, &c. was Ordered to be Ingrossed.
A Bill for Comprehending, and Continuing the Maintenance
of good and profitable Arts, and Trades, for the Commonwealth. The Effect of it was, That every man which had, or
could invent any Art, or Trade, should for his Life Monopolize
the same to his own Use, and he that could Add to, or Refine
the same, should do the like.
Mr. Fettyplace shewed: 'That the Bill was unprofitable, and
not good, for many Reasons.
First. 'It was too General, because it speaketh of Arts, as
well Invented, as to be Invented.
Secondly: 'The Bill sheweth not, That they will be profitable to the Common-wealth; and whatsoever they be, this Bill
alloweth: For divers Arts have been devised in London,
that should be wrought by one Man, which could not be
done heretofore with Forty; this is, said he, unprofitable, because it setteth not many hands on work.
Thirdly: 'It will breed Confusion; because if but a little Addition be made by another, a new Licence is granted to this
Man. And now, if to that Addition another shall add, that
will be ad infinitum, and so breed Confusion. Whereupon he
Concluded, That he for his part thought fit the Bill should
be quash'd; and divers cried Away with it.
I wished, That the Bill might be Read again, and considered,
because we allowed of these kind of Patents once before this
Parliament: Namely, in the Licence for making Tyn by Mills,
out of the Old Rubbish in Cornwal, upon the Motion of
Sir Walter Rawleigh; and this Bill desired no more in effect.
Next, for the Incertainty; upon Consideration of the Bill by
some few Committees, the same might be mended, and
he that performed many special devices might be Inserted.
Besides, he that invented any Art, or Trade, it was reason
he should have some Privilege; because it would be an Incouragement to others. For, Nemo nascitur Artisex, and no man
could come to that Perfection upon the first knowledge of it,
but being taught by the first Inventor for a Season.
Also the Proposition of the Gentleman that last spake, did
not hold in all Arts, that the work of many should be done by
one. For it is Profitable for the Common-wealth, if Water
may be brought to every Mans House for Ten Shillings Value,
where it could not be done for Ten Pounds cost, as by the Water-work-device at London. So, of Iron-Mills in the low-Countries, and of the Corn-Mills upon the Thames. So of shooting and
Charging of Ordnance, and Fire-Works, and the like; and generally of Arts, and Sciences, that can not be done by Poor;
but must be done by Persons Judicial and of Skill, and those
that have a more Natural Inclination to come to Perfection in
those things, than every base Beggar.
For his last Proposition, I said, Non est Confusio in certa Scientia.
Mr. Singy said: 'The Author of the Bill perhaps, was a Sugar-Man, for the used the word Refiner of Arts. So, it was
put to the Question to be read the second time; And all
said, No, No. But when Mr. Speaker said: All those that will
have this Bill read the second time, say, I, I, I: Sir Richard
Knightly said No, Aloud; at which the House Laughed, and
not one said, I, I.
A Bill for Weights and Measures, was called for.
Mr. Doyly shewed, That he had the Bill, and had attended two
Days, and none of the Committees would Meet; he Prayed, the House
would either command the Committees to Meet, or Discharge him
of the Bill.
A Conference betwixt both Houses.
'There was a Conference betwixt the Upper-House, and the
Lower-House in the Painted-Chamber, which was thus:
Secretary Cecil speaks in the name of the Commons.
'Secretary Cecil, with the rest of the Lower-House, came to
the Lords, as they were sitting at the Table; and going to
the upper-end thereof, said to this effect.
'That if their Lordships had already concluded what to do
in the Bill of Patents, they then had no Commission to proceed. And it they had altered the Bill in any point, with
amendments, they had no Commission.
'But if their Lordships had done neither, but only were defirous to be resolved of any doubt, which they in their Wisedomes conceived, and would willingly thereabouts confer with
them, they would most willingly accomplish their desires:
for they had sufficient Warrant from the House so to do.
The Lord Treasurer Answers him.
The Lord Buckhurst, Lord Treasurer, after a little Whispering
with the Lords, answered, 'That he would not have us preoccupate their Judgments with a Speech both Strange, Improper, and Preposturous, &c.
Cecil Consults with the rest in another Room.
Returnes again to the Lords, and Replies.
Mr. Secretary Cecil said, 'He could not Answer their Lordships without Order from the other Committees, and therefore Prayed they might confer together; which was Granted.
So they went forth into another Room, and there considered what Answer to make. And soon after, they returned again, and Mr. Secretary said,
'My Lords, We of the Lower-House are very sorry your
Lordships should conceive otherwise than well of our Speech
and good Intent. Your Lordships termed our Speech (for
so I may say, because I spake in the behalf, and the name
of all the Committees) strange, improper, and preposterous. My
Lords, I think it not Strange, for it is not unknown unto your
Lordships, We be all Members of One Body, and as we cannot be without your Lordships, so your Lordships cannot be
without Us. And when we are desirous, it pleaseth your Lordships out of your Favour, to vouchsafe Us a Conference; so
when your Lordships be willing, it pleaseth Us out of the
desire we have to be observant, to yield thereunto; neither
have your Lordships been more willing to Gratify Us with
your Favours, than We of the Lower-House have been willing to further your Lordships Desires, with our best Furtherance.
'And therefore, my Lords, it is no Strange thing to have a
Conference; neither our Speech Strange, because it tended to
draw us to some particular point of Conference.
'For the Epitheton Improper: I am to tell your Lordships,
That I delivered no more than I was Commanded, nor no less
than I was Required. And therefore, by your Lordships Favour, no cause it should deserve the Title of Improper.
'And, I take it by your Lordships Favours, it was not Preposterous; For the First Matter we took should be handled, was
the Doubts which we Imagined your Lordships had conceived
of the Bill: And if your Lordships had ought else conceived, I
thought fit to shew your Lordships, that we then came without
'So, my Lords, I hope I have made it appear, That the Speech
was neither strange, improper, or preposterous.
'But We of the Lower-House, who be here Committees,
do beseech your Lordships, that you would not conceive otherwise of Us, than we deserve. And your Lordships shall
find Us ever ready in all Dutiful Service, as coadjuting Members of one United Body, the House of Parliament.
'So after, withdrawing themselves a little from the Table,
the Lords Whispered together, and at length calling Us, the
Lord Treasurer said:
The Lord Treasurer's Answer.
The Lords were satisfied with our Answer, and were very
'glad they found Us so Conformable; by which they doubted
not but we should well agree for the Conference, whereby
the Bill might have the better Passage.
Mr. Bacon, &c. to manage the Conference.
Mr. Secretary Cecil, answered: 'That he was very glad their
'Lordships did conceive aright of them; and that the Com
'mittees, because they were many, and would not be troublesome to them with multiplicity of Speeches, had chosen for
their Speakers to Satisfie their Lordships, Mr. Bacon, Mr. Serjeant Harris, Mr. Francis Moore, Mr. Henry Mountague, and
So the Lords called Mr. Attorney General to them; who began to make Objections; and Mr. Bacon answering Mr. Attorney, again Objected; and Mr. Serjeant Harris, before he had fully
ended, began to answer. To which, Mr. Attorney said: Nay,
Good Mr. Serjeant, Leap not over the Stile, before you come at
it: Hear me out I pray you, and conceive me aright. So when
he had done, Mr. Serjeant Answered:
I beseech your Lordships to hear me, and that I may answer without check or Controul, which I little Respect, because it is as light,
as Mr. Attorney's Arguments. And so he proceeded to answer.
So the Conference brake up untill the next Morning, at which
time the Lords said: They would send us word when they were
In the Afternoon.
A Bill for the Relief of Theophilus Adams, Touching certain
Obligations supposed to be made void, by a Proviso contained
in the Statute 39. Reginæ cap. 22. Intituled. An Act for the
Establishment of the Bishoprick of Norwich, and the Possessions of
the same, against a certain pretended, concealed, Title made thereunto.
A Bill for Reformation of Abuses in Selling and Buying
of Spices, and other Merchandizes.
A Bill that no Fair, or Market, should be kept on Sundayes.
Saturday, Decemb. 12.
On Saturday, Decemb. 12. A Bill to confirm the Assurance
of the Mannors and Farmes of Sagebury, alias, Sadgbery, and Obden, and other Hereditaments, to Samuel Sands Esq; and John
Harris Gentleman, and their Heirs, being Ingrossed, was put
to the Question, and was passed.
A Bill about Painters and Plaisterers.
A Bill for Redress of certain Abuses used in Painting, was
moved by Sir George Moore, and some others, that this Bill
might be let slip, and the Cause referred to the Lord Mayor of
London, because it concerned a Controversy between the Painters and Plaisterers. To which,
Mr. Davis Answered, That the last Parliament this Bill should
have passed this House; but it was referred as now desired, and
Bonds made by the Plaisterers for performance of the Orders made
by the Lord Mayor; yet all will do no Good, wherefore, Mr. Speaker, I think it good it should be put to the Question.
Sir Stephen Somes stood up, and desired, That my Lord-Mayor
might not be troubled with them: but that it might be put to the
Question; and it seemed likely to go against the Painters.
Mr. Townshend Pleads for the Painter.
'But I stood up, as it was putting to the Question, and
'shewed, That in the Statute of 25. Ed. 3. cap. 3. Plaisterers
were not then so called, but Dawbers, and Mudd-Wall-Makers;
who had for their Wages by the day Three-Pence, and his
Knave Three-Hall-Pence (so was his Labourer called;) they
continued so until King Hen. 7th's. time, who brought into England with him, out of France, certain Men that used Plaister of
Paris, about the Kings Ceilings and Walls, whose StatuteLabourers these Dawbers were.
'Those Statute-Labourers learned, in short time, the Use of
Plaister of Paris, and did it for the King, and increased to be
many; then sueing to the King for his Favor to Incorporate
them, who fulfill'd their desire, and Incorporated them by the
Name of Gipsarii; which was for Clay or Mudd, aliàs Morter-makers, Anno 16 Hen. 7. Being no Free-Men, for all their
Incorporation, they obtained the Kings Favourable Letters to
Sir William Remington, then Lord Mayor of London, and the
Aldermen, to allow them Free-men. Which was granted.
'At which time came in Four of them, and paid Ten Shillings a piece for their Freedom, and in Three Years, after that
manner, came in the Number of Twenty; but they paid Four
Pounds a piece for Their Freedom.
'They Renewed their Patent in King Hen. 8's. time, and called themselves Plaisterers, aliàs, Morter-makers, for the Use of
Loame and Lime.
'They made an humble Petition, and Supplication after this,
to Sir John Munday then Lord Mayor, and the Aldermen, to
grant them Orders for the better Rule and Government of
their Company, in these words:
'We the good Folkes of Plaisterers in London, of Plaister and
Loame of the said City, for the Redress of certain Abuses of
Lath-Plaister, and Loame wrought in the said Crafts, &c. And
then had allowed unto them Search for their Company, for
the Use of Lath, Loame, and Lime.
'In all their Incorporations, at no time, they had any words
for Colours; neither yet in their Ordnances. For all they were
Incorporated by the name of Plaisterers; yet all King Hen. 8's.
time, they were called Dawbers, as appeareth in the accompts
of the Chamber of London, paid to such and such Dawbers,
for so many Days so much, and to their Labourers so
'The Plaisterers, never laid any Colours in the Kings Houses,
nor in the Sherifs of London, but this Year; they wore no
Livery or Cloathing the Seventeenth of King Hen. 8.
They have been suffered to lay Ale-house Colours, as Redlead and Oaker, and such like, and so now they intrude themselves into all Colours.
'Thus they take not only their own Work, but Painting
also, and leave nothing to do for the Painter.
'Painters, and Stainers, were two several Companies in King
Edw. 3. time. One for Posts, and all Timber-work to Paint.
And the other, for Painting and Staining of Cloth; of great
'continuance; both Companies were joyned into one, by their
own Consent, and by the Consent of the Lord Mayor, and Aldermen of the City.
'The Nineteenth Year of Edw. 4. The Painters had Orders allowed then for the Use of Oyl, and Colours especially named,
in Hen. 4's. time, from the Lord Mayor and City. Painters can
not work without Colours, their only mixture being Oyl and
Size, which the Plaisterers do now Usurp and Intrude into.
'Painters have her Majesty's Letters Patents Dated Anno 24.
Reginæ, forbidding any Artificer the Use of Colours and Oyl or
Size after the manner of Painting, but such as hath been or
shall be an Apprentice with a Painter, Seven Years at the
'And where the Plaisterers do Object, That the Painters do
Abridge other Companies of their Colours; That is most apparently untrue: For Gold-smiths use Colours, but not after the
manner of Painting, and work without Oyl, or Size, by enamelling. Leather-sellers Colour their Leather, but not after
the manner of Painting, but work without Oyl or Size.
Book-binders use Colours, but neither with Oyl or Size, So
Cutlers use Varnishing, and Gilding. So Glasiers use Colours, with nealing in the Oven. Brick-layers use Colours, but
neither with Oyl nor Size, and Joyners likewise do use Varnish.
'Workmanship and Skill is the Gift of God; and not one
in ten proveth a Workman, yet it is requisite, that all such as
have been brought up all the days of their life in a Trade, and
cannot attain to that Excellency of Skill that is required,
should live by the baser part of their Science, when they can
not attain to the better; which is in working in Oyl and Size,
those flat Posts, and Windows, &c.
'If Plaisterers be suffer'd to Paint, Workmanship in Painting will decay; for no Workman will keep an Apprentice Four or
five Years to Practice, and not able to get a Penny, unless he
might now and then get somewhat towards his Meat and
Drink in laying of Oyl-Colours, as on Posts, &c.
'Experience teacheth us now, That amongst the Number of
There Hundred there are not now Twelve sufficient Workmen
in the City of London; yet one of these (Francis De Miter such
was his Poverty) was fain for his Releif to Wife and Children,
to wear upon the Lord Mayors Day, a Blew Gown, and a
Red Cap, and to carry a Torch, he being Fifty Years Old.
'One man will lay and Paint more Colours in a day, than
ten men can grind, which grinding of Colours, should be the
Relief of such as cannot Attain to Workmanship, and that is
taken away by the Plaisterers, and the poor men the Painters,
their Wives and Children, go a Begging for want of Work.
'Besides, Painting of Cloth is decayed, and not One Hundred
Yards of new Painted Cloth made here in a Year, by reason
of so much painted Flanders pieces brought from thence. So
that the Painters have nothing to live on, but laying of
'Oyl-Colours on Posts, Windows, &c.
'It is a curious Art, and requireth a good Eye, and a stedfast
Hand, which the infirmity of Age decayeth quickly, and then
Painters go a begging.
'Plaisterers take mony generally from the highest Personage, to
the lowest or meanest Cottage, whose Walls must needs be made.
Painters take money but of a few, for their delight. Painters
give to the Plaisterers six kind of Colours, commonly used;
(as the Bill importeth) to be laid with Size, and not with Oyl.
And for every Twenty Shillings earned with Oyl-Colours, there is
Ten Pound earned with Size-Colours, they being every mans
The Bill passed.
These Walls, thus Curiously Painted in former Ages, the
Arms so Artificially Drawn, the Imagery so perfectly done, do
Witness our Fore-fathers Care in Cherishing this Art of Painting. So, I think the Bill is very reasonable, and fit to pass,
And so it did.
Mr. Attorney General, and Doctor Cary came from the Lords,
& shewed, Their Lordships were ready for a Conference, touching
the Bill concerning Patents, and that they had given power to
their Committees, fully and finally to determine the same; and
desired, that our Committees might come with the like Power,
which was granted; but a great Number cried, No, No.
A Bill for Reformation of Abuses, in Buying and Selling of
Spices, and other Merchandizes. This Bill was called the Garbling Bill.
It was put to the Question for the passage, and the House
was divided, And the I, I, I, were Ninety Five, and the Noes Forty
One. So the Bill passed.
There was a Question in the House, upon the Bill for the Relief of Souldiers, Whether the Old Levy of Two Pence a Parish
should stand, or Six Pence a Parish?
Secretary Cecil moves for the poor Souldiers.
To which, Mr. Secretary Cecil said: 'The Law for the Relief
of Souldiers, I take to be both just and Honourable, and that Misery which proceeds from Obedience, Worthy to be Pitied
and Relieved; for their Obedience hath shewed it self, even
by Sacrificing their Bloods for our Goods; and there is liker to
be a continuance, than a decay of their Miseries. I dare boldly say it, there is never a Souldier Relieved with such a Contribution, as his Misery requireth, and his Service hath deserved. And therefore I think Six Pence a Parish, at the
So they went to the Conference, and the House sent up these
1. The Bill against Fairs and Markets on Sundays.
2. The Bill to prevent Perjury and Subornation, &c.
3. The Bill to prevent Abuses in Sherifs, and other Officers.
4. The Bill concerning making of Hats.
5. The Bill for Garbling of Spices.
6. The Bill for Redress of Abuses in Painting.
7. The Bill for making a Harbour or Key on the North side
8. The Bill for Assurance of certain Lands to Sandes and
Harris. And, Mr. Secretary Cecil was intreated to deliver them
unto the Lords.
The Bill for the Redress of Abuses and mis-employment of
Goods and Lands given to Charitable Uses, was Read the first
Mr. Solicitor General Fleming Moved, 'That although the
Order of the House was, A Bill should not be Read twice in
one morning; yet in respect that this was a Bill of great Consequence, he Prayed, That it would please the House it might
be Read again. And it accordingly was. And so it was by
Order presently Committed.
Mr. Snigg said: 'I would humbly pray the House, that the
'Bill of Clothing which hath at length taken, and laid open
the Thest of England, which we have so long followed with
Hue and Cry, I mean the Tayntor, may be Read. It Robs God
of his Honour, and us of our Clothing.
Mr. Browne said: 'And I humbly present unto this House,
the natural Born Child of us all, I mean the Bill against
Transportation of Ordance, which is Amended, and a Proviso added, with Licence, &c. And I humbly pray the Amendments may be Read; And the Bill put to the Question.
And so they were, after a little Dispute, and Ordered to be
The Bill for Maimed Souldiers, was Read, To which Mr.
Roger Owen spake, shewing that he was commanded by all the
Justices of the Peace for Salop, to Deliver unto the House the
poor Estate of the County, and therefore prayed, a Proviso
might be added to exempt that County.
But it was replied to him, That he went about to Deck up
his particular Cabbin, when the Ship was on Fire.
In the Afternoon.
A Bill for the Establishing of the Remainder of certain Lands
of Andrew Ketleby Esq; to Francis Ketleby, was Committed, and
the place and time of Meeting was the Court of Wards, On
Monday Morning by Eight of the Clock, and the Councel on
both sides to be there.
A Bill for diligent Repairing to Church, &c.
A Bill for the more diligent Repair to the Church on Sundaies, was Read; To which
Mr. Bond against it.
Mr. Bond said: 'This Bill as it is now Ingrossed, much differeth from the First, which was here presented, which I the
better like of notwithstanding, in my Opinion the Bill is altogether needless, and divers Reasons move me to think it
both inconvenient, and unnecessary.
'Every Evil in a State, is not to be met with in a Law. And
'as it is in the natural, so it is in the politique Body, that
sometimes the Remedy is worse than the Disease. And there
'fore particular Laws, against particular Offences, produce Novelty, and in Novelty Contempt. Hippodamus Miletius, offered
to Reward any Man Bountifully, which could invent a Good
and New Law. But Aristotle condemneth that Policy. And
the best Orator, Demosthenes, condemneth that State which
will admit of any Innovation; although it be good in it
If this Bill pass, there will two imputations happen to the
'State, which Wisedom wills us both to Foresee and Shunn.
The First, an Infamy to our Ministers, that our Adversaries
may say, This is the Fruit of your Labour, to have Preached
away your Audience out of the Church.
'The Second, No less, but a greater Imputation upon our
Arch-Bishops, Bishops, Arch-Deacons, and other Ecclesiastical Governours; that they be either remiss in their Authority, or
else that their Prerogative hath not so much Power as a Twelvepence Fine. And doubtless these Imputations cannot be avoided, if we give the Jesuits such Head, Scope, and Comfort,
as they in their Writings do greedily Apprehend.
'I do conceive, Mr. Speaker, great difference between the
Law, 1. Eliz. when time was, and this Law, 44. Eliz. as
now it is: then the People were newly taken from Massing
& Superstition; now are planted in Truth, and rooted in Religion; the Light did then scarce appear unto them, which
now shineth with Glorious Beams upon our Teachers, and
Ecclesiastical Judges. And as the Malice of the Adversary
was only kindled against them in the Beginning; so is it
stretched forth to put down, and Flameth like a consuming
Fire to devour our Doctrine.
'These Reasons aforesaid, were the Ground-Work of Osorius's
Foundation in his Epistle unto Her Majesty, to give Advantage to spake Evil. I will give but a Reason or two more,
and so end.
'Suppose, that a neglector of Church-Service, comes to the
Sessions, there to be Examined, alleadging an Excuse, many
businesses so concern the doer not to be known, that to speak
Truth would be his undoing. And not to speak Truth,
would be a Wound unto his Conscience: and to say his Business were a meer Mockery; and to say an untruth, an Apparent Danger.
'If this Law may stand for a Law, me thinks, I see what
Breach of Charity will happen. Say there be Forty in a Parish absent, the Church-warden presents some and not others;
it will be Objected unto him. Wherefore should I be presented and not he? my Wife, my Servant, my Friend, and
not his? Will not this be a great Breach of Unity and
'Just Prosecution will be infinitely Cumbersome, and partial
connivance subject to Quarrel; notwithstanding this Statute,
we leave Power to the Ecclesiastical Judge; whose course is
to proceed to Excommunication, and so an Excommunicato capiendo must be had; this is as great a Charge as the Indictment in the Statute 1 Eliz. In this Statute, a Witness or
two must be brought to the Sessions. He must be presented
to the Grand-Jury, and so Indicted. This will cost Five Shillings, a Noble, or Ten Shillings, which is as much as the Charge
in the first Statute. So because this Bill is Scandalous to the
Clergy, Scandalous to the State, and Repugnant to Charity,
and Crambe recota; I pray it may receive the like entertainment the former Bill had, viz. to be Rejected.
Sir Fran. Hastings Answers him.
Sir Francis Hastings said: I shall speak upon great Disadvantage: I perceive this Member of our House, hath taken Studied Pains to disturb the passage of this Bill; to which I shall
not so well Answer, because I cannot so well carry away the
particulars of this Politique, but not Religious Discourse.
'If it be Religion to be Obedient at pleasure, If I could be
Zealous to Day, and Cold to Morrow: I could Subscribe to all
that he hath said. We cannot do a more acceptable thing
to God, nor a more Dutiful Service to the State, than to bring
Men to Fear God.
Religion and Policy may well stand together; but as that Policy is most Detestable, which hath not Religion to warrant it:
So is that Religion most happy, that hath Policy to back and
maintain it. I know the Jesuits and Priests be out of square,
and be at Jar amongst themselves; I pray God it be not to
make a Breach amongst us, who be yet at Unity.
'Wit well Applied, is a profitable thing, but ill Applied,
'Dangerous in whosoever doth abuse it. There is no Man of
Sense and Religion, but thinks he is far from Religion (pointing to Mr. Bond) that made the Speech first. He said, It
would be an Imputation to our Ministers, That Speech was both
absurd in Judgment, and Scandalous in Uttering; as though
by the Ministers of the Word, we loath to hear of our Sins,
or reconcile our selves unto God.
'The Second, That it was an Imputation to Arch-Bishops, Bishops, &c. I am so far from blaming their Government, that
I Renounce that position, and am very sorry, that the strength
of their Authority, stretcheth not so far as I could with it did
in this Point.
'But methinks this Law should rather be a Credit to the
Ministers, That now we having gone to Church these Forty
Three Years our selves, and are so servent in Religion; desire also, that others may do the like.
'I beseech you, give me leave to wipe away a Grievance,
which it seems, the Gentleman that last spake, imputeth unto me; he hath made a protestation that he is no Papist, I appeal to you all, if I said he was. And I say, he is no Puritan, if he be not a Papist; for if there be ever a Puritan in
England, it is a Papist. I Learned of Doctor Humfries, who
was sometimes my Tutor, a Division of Four Sorts of Puritans.
'1. The Catholicks, who hold a Man cannot Sin after Baptisme.
'2. The Papist, who is such a Merit-Monger, that he would
not only save himself by his own Merits, but by the Merits of
'A 3d. Sort, are the Brownists, or Family of Love. A Sect too
well known in England: I would they never had so been.
'The 4th. and last Sort, are, your Evangelical Puritans, which
rely wholly upon the Scriptures, as upon a sure Ground.
And of these, I would we had many more than we now
Mr. Glascocke, Mr. Spicer, and divers others, made several
Speeches; but because it grew Dark, I could not Write them.
Doctor Cary came from the Lords, and brought a Bill concerning Captains, Souldiers, and Mariners, and other the
Queens Servants in the Realm. Also another Bill for the Maintenance of the Navy, Increase of Mariners, and the Avoiding
the scarcity of Victuals.
It was shewed by Doctor Bennet, upon occasion of Speech
of the Multitude of Recusants, that there were Thirteen Hundred, nay, Fifteen Hundred Recusants in Yorkshire, which he
vouched upon his Credit were presented in the Ecclesiastical-Court,
and before the Councel at York.
So, after divers other Speeches and Arguments, it was put to
the Question, Whether the Bill should be Ingrossed? The Substance whereof was, That if any Man came Eight times in the
Year to the Church, and read the Divine Service Twice every
Sunday and Holyday in his House, with his whole Family, that
should be a sufficient Dispensation.
This was utterly misliked, yet divers that were minded to
overthrow the Bill, went forth with the Proviso, because they
would have it joyned with the Bill to overthrow it. Whereupon the House was divided, and upon division it appeared thus,
the I, I, I, were One Hundred Twenty Six, and the No, Noes Eighty
Five. So the Proviso passed.
Then it was put to the Question for Passing of the Bill, but
then divers Reasons were shewed to the contrary. Mr. Bonds,
two Reasons of prejudice to Ministers, and the Clergy, and the
danger by Breach of Charity, That the Information was a thing
contrary to Magna Charta, That there might be a Conviction
without inquiry, &c.
Sir Walt. Rawleigh against the Bill.
Sir Walter Rawleigh shewed, 'That all the Church-Wardens
of every Shire, must come to the Sessions to give Information
to the Grand-Jury. Say then there be 100 and 20 Parishes in a
Shire; there must now come Extraordinarily 200 & 40 ChurchWardens; and say, that but Two in a Parish Offend in a
Quarter of a Year, that makes Four Hundred and Eighty persons (with the Offenders) to appear. What great Multitudes this will bring together! What Quarrelling and Danger may happen, besides giving Authority to a mean churchwarden! How prejudicial this may be! with divers other Reasons against it. As also, he said, There was some Ambiguities and Equivocations therein, the Proviso being newly ad
'ded, being a plain Toleration from coming to Church. And
that the Parson could not present or constrain any, if they
read Service at Home.
So it was put to the Question, thrice together; and because
the Truth could not be discerned, the House was again divided. And the I, I, I, went forth and were 105. and the Noes
within were 106. so it was lost by one Voice. But the I, I, I,
said, they had Mr. Speakers Voice, which would make it even.
And then it grew a Question, whether Mr. Speaker had a
Query, Whether the Speaker have a Vote?
Sir Edward Hobby, who was of the I, I, I, side, said, That when
Her Majesty had given us leave to Choose our Speaker, she gave us
leave to choose one out of our own Number, and not a stranger. He
is a Citizen of London, and a Member, and therefore he hath a
The Speaker declares he hath not, by Custom, any Vote.
To which it was Answered, by Sir Walter Rawleigh, and confirmed by the Speaker himself, That he was fore-closed of his Voice, by
taking of that Place which it had pleased them to impose upon him, and
that he was to be indifferent for both Parties. And withal shewed,
That by the Old Order of the House, The Bill was lost.
A Complaint of Foul Play, &c.
Mr. Boyer, Secretary to the Lord Buckhurst, said: Mr. Speaker,
I think it not lost, for there hath been foul and great Abuse Offer'd
in this matter. A Gentleman that would willingly have gone forth, according to his Conscience, was pulled back. Though I much Reverence
my Masters of the Temple, and am much bound to the Benchers of
the Midle-Temple, yet if it will please the House, and you, Mr. Speaker, to Command me to Name him, I will. The greatest Voice
said No; yet Mr. Secretary Cecil, willed him to Name him.
And he said, Mr. Dale of the Midle-Temple.
Sir Walt. Rawleigh Accuses himself of a Weakness.
Sir Walter Rawleigh said: Why? if it please you, it is a small
matter to pull one by the Sleeve, for so have I done my self often
times. And a great Stir was in the House.
The Comptroller takes him up for it.
Mr. Comptroller, after some silence, said: We have been often
troubled by Physitians, (meaning Mr. Bond,) and they have been spoken against: He troubled us with Aristotle, & other Books. If he had
staid there, it had been well. But I think, we had need of Physitians
to stay our Heads, and Cool our Heats and Humours, not fitting a
Court of Parliament; For it is a most intolerable Disorder.
I do think the Offence an heynous Offence, both against God and
this Assembly; for the First, in that every man is to go according to his
Conscience, and not by Compulsion. And for the other Gentleman, (meaning Sir Walter Rawleigh) that said, he had often done the like, I
think he may be ashamed of it; for large is his Conscience, that in
a matter of this Consequence, will be drawn either forward or backward by the Sleeve. And I think it fit, it is so Heynous, that he
answer it at the Bar (meaning Mr. Dale.) But because Sir Walter
Rawleigh was last named, it was taken to be meant of him.
Is Seconded by Cecil.
Mr. Secretary Cecil said: 'I am sorry to see this disorder, and
little do you know how for disorder the Parliament is Taxed.
I am sorry I said not, Slandered. I hoped as this Parliament
began gravely, and with judgment, so we should have ended
'modestly, and at least with discretion. I protest I have a Libel
in my Pocket against the Proceedings of this Parliament.
'The Offence, that the Gentleman that last spake, spake of,
I confess is great and punishable. And this I wish may be inflicted on him, that he whose Voice may be drawn either forward or backward by the sleeves, like a Dog in a string, may no
more be of this House; and I wish for his Credit sake, he
would not. But, that it should be so great as to be called to
the Bar, I see no Reason; neither do I know, why any in
this House should speak so Imperiously, as to have a Gentleman of his Place and Quality (pointing to Sir Walter Rawleigh)
called to the Bar.
'For the matter it self, the Noes were 106. and the I, I, I,
105. Mr. Speaker hath no Voice; and though I am sorry to say it,
yet I must needs confess lost it is, and farewel it. And so the
House rose confusedly, it being after six a Clock.
There was another Gentleman (a Noe) pulled out, as well as
the other was kept in, and therefore it had happen'd even as before; howsoever, Mr. Edward Johns and Mr. Barker pulled Mr. Lyonel Ducket out.
Sonday Decemb. 13.
Munday Decemb. 14.
On Munday Decemb. 14. there was a great Eclipse about Noon.
A Bill against the multiplicity of Printers.
A Bill against Bankrupts, lewd Apprentices, and evil Factors.
The House was divided upon the second Reading of the Bill,
the I, I, I, were 35. and the Noes 45. so the Bill was not to be
Read the third time, being lost by ten Voices.
A Bill for the Cloth-workers of London, Ordered to be Ingrossed.
A Bill for the Recovery of many Hundred Thousand Acres
of drowned Grounds in the Ile of Ely, and in the Counties of
Cambridg, Huntington, Northampton, Lincoln, Norfolk, Suffolk,
&c. was Ordered to be Committed.
A Bill for the Denization of certain Persons, viz. Josepho Lupo,
and one Questor, and others, &c.
Mr. Fettyplace shewed: 'That Questor, as he was Informed,
had neither Father nor Mother English, and therefore not fit to
Mr. Browne said: 'This Questor is a Factor for Merchants,
Strangers, and an Ingrosser of Fish, and keeps a Ware-house here
in London. And now, because he would Defraud the Queen of a
double Subsidy, being an Alien Stranger, he would be Indenizen'd.
Sir Walter Rawleigh said: 'I know Questor well, he hath served the Queen long, and done Her good service, he hath been
these 36. Years in England, & hath ever shewed himself a good
Subject; and for his good Service, I see no Reason but he should
be permitted to pass with the rest.
Mr. Secretary Cecil said: 'I know this man Questor well; this
Testimony I am able to give of him, that he is a man of good
Substance, and of Qualitie, and of his quality I know not an
honester man in England; he hath done good Service both to
the Queen, and to the State; and that to my know
ledg. For the matter of Custom, I know her Majesty is well
pleased therewith, and therefore no Defrauding. That
he should be an Ingrosser of Fish for Strangers, it may be; but
I think he is not. I protest if I knew he were, I should hate
him as I do hate Monopolies. It is no great matter if we pur
him in, for the Bill may be quashed either in the Upper-House,
or Her Majesty may dash him out, at her Pleasure. The Committee, that was appointed this Forenoon in Ketlebies
Case in the Court of Wards, is appointed to be this afternoon in
the same place. Because the Council who were Committees,
and the Cause being of great Weight, Five Hundred Pounds
Per Annum, were to go presently to end the Conference with
the Lords, touching Patents, for they tarried for them.
Mr. Francis Moore brought in the Bill for continuance of some Statutes, and Repeal of some others, with two Provisoes touching
Dover-Haven, (and the longer was accepted) I leave it, quoth he,
to the Consideration of the House, to take whether they list,
or to refuse both; and here stayed whilst the Clerk of the
Crown and a Doctor brought two Bills from the Lords, which
had past this House, viz. The Exchequer-Bill without any amendment, only a short Proviso added to the end, the Effect whereof was:
That upon Order in the open Court, it should be Lawful for
any Officer, Clerk, &c. to award Process, and drive the Parties
to Plead Quo titulo, &c. which was Prohibited by the Bill. The
second was the Bill touching the joynture of Lucy Countess of
Bedford, with some amendments, and a Proviso.
Cecil about Dover-Haven.
Mr. Secretary Cecil said: 'If ever there was a time to look
to the Ports and Havens, it is now. If you remember, what
place is Ex opposito to Dover, what Neighbours we have, and how
greatly that Haven doth stand us in stead, I believe you would
be more willing to add, than to take any thing away from the
maintenance thereof. I wish therefore, to end this Controversy, that this may be the Question, Whether of these two Pro
visoes shall be added to the Law? But I think the greatest is
best, and largest, and I should be loth to Detract any thing
from that Contribution: So the greater was taken.
Amendments in the Bill of Assurance, used amongst Merchants.
Mr. Hackwell said: 'I think, Mr. Speaker, we do not give
'that Favor to a Bill which lies dormant in this House, as the
Bill meriteth. It was well said, by one, that Ships were the
Walls of our Kingdom; which if we suffer to Decay, as I am
certainly assured they are Decaying, not only a quarter, or
third part, but even half, and as our strength Diminisheth, so our
'And therfore Mr. Speaker, it being for a publique Good, and
general Happiness to us all, I wish so profitable a Bill may be
Read, and have good passage; it is Intituled, A Bill touching
Souldiers, Mariners, and maintenance of Shipping.
A Bill for the Repealing of an Act made 14 Eliz. concerning
lengths of Kersies, was Committed.
A Bill for Confirmation of Letters Patents, to the Hospitals of
St. Rartholomews, Bridewell, and St. Thomas the Apostle.
The Act for Confirmation of Statutes put to the Question, and
agreed to be Ingrossed.
Sir Edw. Hobby moved the House, to have their Opinions touch
ing the Proviso sent down from the Lords, with the ExchequerBill, which was Ingrossed in Parchment; for he somewhat doubted of it, and thought it ought to be in Paper; for all Amendments that come from the Lords use to be in Paper, and not in
Parchment, but agreed, That it was well, and according to the
course of the House to be in Parchment.
The Bill for the Repairing and Amending two Bridges, near
Carlisle over the River of Eden, in the County of Cumberland,
being Ingrossed, it was Read and Passed, and sent up to the
Lords by Sir Edward Hobby and others. And the Copy of the
Information against Mr. Bellgrave, under the Hand of the Clerk
of the Star-Chamber.
The Bill concerning the Assize for Feuel, Ordered to be Ingrossed and Passed.
Mr. Davis moved, and shewed, 'That a Servant of Mr. Hudlestons
(Knight for Cumberland) I think, being some twelve months
since, hurt in the Hand, went unto one Mathews a Surgeon by
Fleet-Bridg, who for Ten Pound undertook the Cure; the Man
gave him a Bill of Ten Pound for the said Cure, which, he the
said Mathews could not perform, without leaving a great Scar,
and withal a little lameness in his hand, notwithstanding he
paid the Surgeon Eight Pound: but upon what suggestion I know
not, Mathews hath sued Mr. Hudlestons man for the whole Ten
Pound, and Arrested him upon an Execution, into the Counter.
The man told him, he was Mr. Hudlestons man, and that his Master was a Member of this House, and a Knight of a Shire, and
that he was thereby privileged from Arrest, and wished to
be discharged. But Mathews, and the Serjeant said, they cared
not for his Master, nor his Privilege; and said, that he was not
priviledged from an Execution. And so being carried to the
Counter, he told the like to the Clerks, who affirmed likewise,
that Priviledges would not stretch to Executions, and therefore
would not discharge him.
'And therefore I Pray, that both the Clerks, Mathews, and
the Serjeant, may be sent for. And so it was Ordered, they
should Appear to morrow in the Forenoon.
The Bill against ordinary and usual Swearing, was ordered to
be Ingrossed, and so Passed.
The Bill that Concerns Captains, Souldiers, and Mariners,
which came from the Lords, was Read the first time.
The Bill for Relief of the Poor, was brought in with Amendments, and agreed to be Ingrossed.
In the Afternoon.
The Bill touching the Weaving of Silk and Gold Laces, after
a little Debate, by the greater part, it was Rejected. The Reasons against the Bill were: 1. That it was Incroaching a Liberty
to have two miles compass. 2. That it was too General; silk Wares,
and all other Stuffs. 3. That it was a Prohibition of making or
selling of Norwich Stuffs. 4. That the search in the Bill, was too
General, and the Forfeiture too great. 5. That it was a discommodity to have all Silk-Stuffs. For Statute-Lace with a third of Silk,
will shew and sell better; so of Stuffs for Childrens Coats. That
the Search was General as well within Liberties, as without.
I offered to speak before the Question was half asked, but could
not be suffered, the Noes were so great. And it being put to the
Question, over-ruled, and the Bill Rejected.
A Bill about the City, &c.
A Bill, that the City of London should have full Power and
Government over, and in the Liberties of St. Katharines, Read.
To which Bill,
Mr. Wiseman Argues against it.
Mr. Wiseman spake, and said: 'That divers particular Persons, had Purchased Lands within the Liberty; and had given
much more for the same, in respect of the Privilege, than
otherwise they would have done. And now this Bill wipeth
away all their Right. And Mr. Speaker, I hope I may speak it
without Offence, This Parliament hath been more troubled with
Bills for Incroaching Liberties about the City of London, than any
three Parliaments before.
Sir Steph. Some for the City.
Sir Stephen Some said: 'I am bound to defend London, and I
cannot, under your Favor, suffer the Imputation laid against us:
For, Mr. Speaker, I say to you, these Privileges are the very
sink of Sin, the Nursery of naughty and lewd People, the Harbour of Rogues, Theeves, and Beggars, and maintainers of idle
Persons; for when our Shops and Houses be Robbed, thither
they fly for Relief and Sanctuary, and we cannot help our selves.
'The City seeing this, Purchased it of the Lord Thomas Howard, supposing to have had all the said Privileges; but finding
the contrary by Experience, they now are inforced to sue for
your Favours, to have it pass by Act of Parliament. This is the
Cause, and I leave it to your Considerations: whereupon it
was put to the Question, and the House was Divided, and the
I, I, I, were 94. and the Noes 86.
Tuesday Decemb. 15.
On Tuesday Decemb. 15. A Bill to make the Lands, Tenements,
and Hereditaments of Edward Lucas Gentleman Deceased, Executor of the last Will and Testament of John Flowerdewe Esquire,
Deceased, liable to the payment of certain Legacies, given by
the last Will of the said John Flowerdewe; and for the payment of
divers other Debts, owing by the said Lucas, in his life time.
Mr. Snigg moved, to have the Bill for Clothing Read, which
was Read, accordingly.
Mr. Fettiplace, prayed the House to have consideration, whether the Merchants were fit to have Consideration for Cockling
and Squales, and so to make abatement to the Clothier.
And he thought not, because in outward show, it seemed good;
yet there lurks a hurt to the Merchant. And so it was put to the
Question, and Ordered to be Ingrossed.
One Anthony Mathews a Surgeon, who dwelt about Fleet-Bridg,
caused a Serjeant to Arrest one Curwyn, Servant to Mr. Hudleston
Knight, for Cumberland. It appeared, that Curwin was a Solicitor,
and a Servant to the said Mr. Hudleston for three Years space; and
had solicited his great Cause in the Star-Chamber, betwixt Delebar
and himself; the Truth of the Case was this: Curwin falling into
talk with another, about Fleet-Bridg, touching Mr. Hudlestons
Cause; they fell out there, and Fought, and Curwin was Hurt sore
in the Hand; so he went to this Mathews, being the next Surgeon, who dressed him; and after, it was agreed, that Mathews
should have for the Cure Ten Pounds, viz. Four Pounds in hand, and
Mr. Hudlestons and his Bill for the Payment of the other Six
Pounds when the Cure was done. Which Bill was Read openly.
Now, it was Averr'd and Confessed, the Cure was done, and
that Four Pounds more were Paid, and Mathews contented to forbear the other Forty Shillings untill the next serm following; but it
was not paid. Whereupon the said Mathews (it being three
Years since due) caused Curwin to be Arrested. And Mr. Hadleston
shewed this to the House, and Offer'd (so he might have his man
free) to pay the money due. And because it was Averr'd, that
the Serjeant knew not of the said Curwins being Mr. Hudlestons
man, but only was told that he was one of New-Inn; which indeed was true, and he lay there in his Brothers Chamber, yet
served Mr. Hudleston; and the Serjeant offered to Swear the same.
But the Serjeant said, That after he was Arrested, Curwin told
him he was Mr. Hudlestons Man. And Mathews said, If you let
him go, I will be Answer'd by you; look you to it. Whereupon
the Serjeant confessed he kept him; and if he had Offended, he
So the House Awarded, the Serjeant should be Discharged,
paying his Fees; and that Mathews should pay them: And
Mathews, to pay his Fees, and remain Three Days in the Serjeants Custody, for procuring the Arrest: And that Curwin
should have his Writ of Privilege; And so he had.
This Matter was argued diversly, Whether he should be priviledged or no: And some thought not; but at length I stood
up, and shewed the House, That he ought to be privileged; for
we had given Judgment in the like Case, of the Baron of Waltons
Solicitor this Parliament. And thereupon it was put to the Question; And Ordered he should be Privileged.
The House called to have the Bill of Ordnance Read, and
Sir Edward Hobby said: 'I shall move you in a Matter, which
though is seems distasteful in the beginning; yet I doubt not,
but it will be very pleasing in the ending. I am given to understand, and I know it to be true, for I saw it, That the
Lords have a Bill in their House, Touching Transportation of
Ordnance; far more large in Matter, and more strict in
Punishment, than ours is. And, where we stand so much upon the Words [Without License] and spend time therein,
they make no such scruple, but put it absolute.
'Besides, I dare presume to Inform you, that the Gentleman
that had the Patent, hath made a voluntary and willing Sur
render thereof; laying the same even at Her Majesties Feet,
which Her Majesty most Gratiously and Willingly Accepted.
'Now my Motion is this, I know their Bill is coming, and
that the Parliament will be short: If we shall read Ours, and
they send Theirs; this will breed Disputation, perhaps Confusion; and so, in so good and necessary a Cause, just nothing
done, but both neglected. Therefore my desire is, we may
tarry for Theirs. But the House would have it Read, viz. A
Bill against Transportation of Money, Coin, Plate, Ordnance, &c.