House of Commons Journal Volume 1
04 March 1624

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1802

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'House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 04 March 1624', Journal of the House of Commons: volume 1: 1547-1629 (1802). URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=5970 Date accessed: 23 September 2014.


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Jovis, 4 Martii

Gold-wire-drawers.

L. 1. AN Act for the Ratifying and Confirming of his Majesty's Charter to the Company of Gold-wire-drawers of the City of London.

Sir Will. Strode, - against the Bill. - This to confirm a Monopoly by Act of Parliament.

Sir Edw. Villers: - To decline the Manufacture, as well as the Bill. - Spend 1,000 a Week. This Bill, upon Question, rejected.

Ordered, That this Patentof Gold-wire-drawers shall be brought in To-morrow, to the Committee of Grievances.

New River.

Anwell.

L. 1. An Act for Confirmation of Letters Patents. -

Negotiations with Spaine.

Sir Dud. Diggs reports from the Conference from the Lords Yesterday. - The Prince present. - 1. Overture, the Causes of the Conference: - Two: 1. To add the Knowledge of some Particulars: 2. To deliver such Reasons, that had been the Ground of our Advice. - Of the Particulars, Two : 1. Out of a Declaration to Bristo; heretofore to Somerset, for Prince Henry. - A Correspondence in that -

A Practice from Spaine, to entangle our Prince: To keep him from Marriage. A Note by the way, that strange, the same Person should set the Marriage on foot again; being it was declared by them, that, unless our Prince would turn Catholique, could be no Treaty. -

Came to the Relation of Sir Rob. Cotton, that he had with the Spanish Ambassador. - 1614. Spanish Ambassador came to his House, pretending to see his Rarities. -

10 Febr. acquainted his Majesty with it. - Somerset, Warrant then to sound the Life of the Intention. -

Told him, he doubted, he had no Warrant to set any such Thing a-foot - 16 March, Spanish Ambassador dealt with him, and endeavoured to make Somerset Spanish, and to further this Match. - Answered him -

Divers Rubs and Difficulties in it - 9 April, gave a Pill in a Paper. - Three Reasons: - That, if the King of Spaine would set down, verbo regio, fide Chistiana, and not urge unreasonable Things in Matter of Religion. - 1. Would have it done verbo regio, because some Wrong done to this Kingdom by Treaties with Spaine; further, some Letters of Charles the Vth; wherein appeared, that he woed the King to this Match, and did this, to break the Marriage with France; and drew him into a

Contract, to set upon France, and to divide the World between them: Fide Christiana; quia fides non servanda cum haereticis: 3. For Religion. -

After Sir Rob. Cotton for to the Ambassador of Spaine.

- A Packet from Spaine. - Opened these Letters. -

Said, the King of Spaine was satisfied in his Conscience, that he might do it: His Divines had resolved him, and his Confessor would write a Book in Defence of it. -

1616. His Majesty told Sir Ro. Cotton, that Gundomar had counterfeited these Letters; and, that he was a juggling Jack. -

Archbishop said, that this Year Bristo obtained a Warrant, to treat of this Marriage. -

An Occasion offered to mention Chancellor Exchequer.

- He a Discoverer: - Had dealt so clearly and honestly, when he came back, that said, he would ever love him. -

Prince the like, and my Lord Chamberlain.

Sir Rob. Philips - A particular Addition to this of the Prince. - That he had Directions to sum together the Effect of his Negotiation at Brussels; but not yet finished. -

Inducement enough. -

Prince replied, " This Work to be, done for the Satisfaction of my Father." After this, my Lord Canterbury remembered the Three Supplements delivered the Day before by my Lord Keeper, 1. That this Overture first came from Spaine. - Prince mentioned a Letter of Sir Jo. Digby, 3 Jan. 1614. So that appears, they did not only invite us, but on purpose to abuse us. That Letter here. - Then descended to the second Supplement, con-concerning the Palatinate; wherein appeared the Fickleness of the Spanish Promises. - That Answer to tripartite Proposition: To the last, negative, contrary to former Promises, as appeared by sundry Letters; the Effect of all, that That State would assist: The King of Spaine would assist our King by Arms against the Emperor. - 3d Supplement, the Remembrance of an heroical and princely Act of his Highness. -

Sent to the Commissioners this Message; That, although Affection, and Desire of Alliance had brought him in that Manner thither, yet would never be so base, as to go in the same Manner out of Spaine - Told Grimes, he should say nothing of these Reports; but, if he heard he were stayed, should tell his Majesty, that he should not any longer respect him, and think on him as his Son, but reflect his Royal Thoughts -

Duke of Buckingham omitted something the last Narration : Supplied it now. Remembered, that Gundomar formerly offered the King the Title of the United Provinces : Only used it to keep us from giving them Assistance; and further, after a Commission sent into Spaine, to treat, never revived that Proposition. Here my Lord Duke spake of the vast and unlimited Ambition of the Spanish State. - Aimed at the universal Monarchy of the whole World: Could not be Master of the Sea, if we and the Low Countries joined together. - Then fell an Occasion to speak - a Member of this House, employed in Savoy: Tended to these Ends: 1. To shew, that this Artifice of Treaty no new Thing with the Spaniard. Instanced the Marriage of Savoy with Spaine. -

Sir Isaac Wake: - After this, pleased the Prince to remember another Passage: That my Lord Bristo, being to negotiate with the Emperor, and meeting Spinola, told him, now he hoped, we should have a full Restitution of the Palatinate. Spinola replied, " It may be so, if our Rebels here may be suppressed." To fortify this, Buckingham remembered, that, upon Conference with Gundomar told him, impossible to make it a Match, unless our King would assist them against the Low Countries. - Called, my Lord Chamberlain remembered, that, when the Archduchess' Ministers here, the Reply was, " In Case the Rebels of the Low Countries may be reduced to the

Obedience of Spaine. This confirmed by my Lord of Carlisle. Prince remembered One Thing more; that, when Bristo delivered what passed between Spinola and him, Bristo answered, " Stands not with my Honour to permit it: Found them a free State, and so would leave them." - Then pleased One of the Committee to make some short Introduction to their Lordships: Gave some Reasons of his own. 1. By these Treaties the King, by them, would suffer a Diminution in point of Sovereignty. - A great Increase of those Persons, that would depend on Spaine. 2. Observed, what they put upon us. When the Dispensation came from Rome, accompanied with this Charge, that the King of Spaine should take an Oath, in hostile Manner to invade the King of England, if he should not perform - When we treated as Lovers, they treated as Enemies, by Cannons. - 1. Reason in Charge to deliver, an immoderate Demand of Connivence, 2ly, The Increase of the Popish Party. 3ly, Their deluding his Majesty with Hope of Peace, and, under Colour of that, to afflict. 4ly, In professing Friendship to us, professes Enmity to the King's Children. 5ly, Their delaying his Majesty with Multiplicity of Treaties. Lastly, their uncivil Pressing of the Prince to change his Religion.

Two or Three Particulars remain: 1. Prince pleased to say, that not meant to insist strictly, to insist on these Articles; but that intended only for his Majesty's

Satisfaction, and to justify our Proceedings. - Desired to have a Copy of these Reasons of ours. - Duke of Buckingham intimated, that he had lately written to his Majesty, what Time both Houses should attend him. - Answered, not well disposed in his Health: Should certainly know next Morning. Yesterday received from him, that he had not been well. - Should hear further from them, e'er long. - Their Lordships would meet at Eight a Clock, and desired our Committee to meet them at Ten.

Mr. Treasurer: - A short Particular concerning Gundomar. When he came out of France, where managed the Treaty there, Gundomar visited him often. - Told him, they had out-bid France - 12 score Thousand: - They offered 600,000. - Said, true, they would be ready to give that, and a greater Sum, so that they might obtain their desire in advancing their Religion. - Spaine needed not seek to advance themselves by Alliance: - The best Blood among them in Christendom. - But, to advance their Religion, would bring their Indies. The Thing, his Master aimed at, was, to advance his Religion. - Next Time he came to him asked him plainly One

Question, which of his Two Languages he should believe; that to him, or others. - That it was at Conclusion. -

Blushed at it, and informed the Prince.

Sir Edw. Cooke: - A little Relation to him. - Committed Sir Rob. Cotton, when Chief Justice, and understood, he had Intelligence with the Spanish Ambassador; Questioned him for it: For no Subject ought to converse and * with Ambassadors, without the King's Leave. - But, for the Offence he committed him, his general Pardon from the King.

Sir Edw. Sandys: - Not added any Reasons of his own, but enlarged them. - * One Thing suggested to him by a Member of this . . The Spanish State wrought with an Engine upon all the King's Subjects. This concerned the King in point of Sovereignty : For that Religion hath immediate Dependance on the King of Spaine. -

The Protestants in France depend on no foreign State.

- To have some of the Committee to withdraw, and add his Supplement to the former Reasons.

Sir James Perrot: - Not to deliver these Reasons in Writing. - To have them delivered by Word of Mouth. Mr. Recorder: - Not to deny a Delivery of them. - To have Sir Edw. Sandys, and Two Reporters retire into Committee Chamber, and set down that new Enlargement of the other Reasons; then to read them; then to order, that they may be delivered into the Prince his Hand, if he please to communicate them. - Agreed.

Mayor of Winchelsey.

Mr. Recorder: - Upon Tuesday the Committee of Privileges sat. Yesterday, when the Committee went to the Lords, the Report made, being but One Side then heard. -

Can shew the Practice wholly on the other Side - To forbear the Sending for the Mayor, till the other Side heard at Committee. To respite it till To-morrow.

Mr. Glandvyle: - This will draw in a Breach of the Privileges of the House. Not a Negative Voice at Committee, but that he ought to be sent for.

Negotiations with Spaine.

Sir Isaac Ware reports his Part. - Yesterday Morning declared somewhat, at the Command of his Highness. - He himself employed to the Duke of Savoy. -

The Difficulty represented, the Matter of Dispensation.

- Sent to Spaine, and brought back word, that it was not feasible. Savoy sent to Rome himself. - In less than Six Months, - that it was lawful: - Clogged with no other Conditions, but this; that she should procure as favourable Conditions, as might be, for the Catholiques in England,

Conference.

Our Committee went up again to the Lords.

General Issue.

L. 2. - An Act to admit the Subject to plead the General Issue.

Ordered, To be ingrossed.

Trade.

Sir Edw. Sandys: - This Afternoon, Committee for Matter of Trade. This Day Sevennight Committee began to sit: Set the Matter in an Order, and resolved to begin with the Causes general of Decay. - Three Heads: Overcharge; Restraint; and Want of Money. - Resolved likewise to begin with Restraint of Trade. - Probable, that a great Supply to be made to his Majesty, upon the Breach of these Treaties; therefore to enable the Subject. - Three or Four Propositions. - Took into Consideration, how that his Majesty's Commissioners have already taken a great deal of Pains in it. - The Desire of the Committee, to have a Sight of their Labours. - To have some choice Messengers sent to my Lord Treasurer, to desire him to send, to this House, the Labours of the last Parliament. 3. Motion, they desire to have another Day added.

4. Motion, to set forward the Bill against Exportation of Wools.

Ordered, That the Labours of the King's Commissioners for Trade, shall be brought to the Committee; and my Lord Treasurer to be requested to send, to the Chancellor Exchequer, the Labours of the last Parliament.

Sir Arthur Ingram, Sir Nath. Rich, to be the Men.

Merchants of the Staple.

L. 1. An Act, restoring the free Trade of Merchants of the Staple.

Negotiations with Spaine.

Sir Dud. Digges: - A strong -

The Prince desired to have a Sub-committee.- -

Spent the Morning in Examination of Sir Rich. Weston's Negotiation; in which they find other Things to communicate to us. - Gave great Approbation of our Reasons Yesterday. - Some Explanation in some Things. -

When Chancellor treating for Accommodation, Heidelburg lost, and after, the Electorate given away. -

After this, Lord Steward spake. - Would have it added, that, at no Time, they had given Respect due to his Majesty. -

Conclusion : - Prince -

To have a Sub-committee, and come to them about the Drawing of the Articles. - Their Number Eight.

Recorder added OneThing, Spoke by my Lord President ; whether any Need of any further Information.

Secretary Culvert: - One Thing material; the * given away, contrary to a late Treaty ; after, Heidelberg, Manheim, and Franckendale, to be offered into their Hands, by way of Sequestration. - Voiscol came over to them : A Treaty made : One Article, that no Innovation should be. Contrary to this, they gave away this to the Bishop of Mentz.

Mr. Treasurer, Sir Isaac Wake, Mr. Cooke: These added to the former Thirteen, for a Sub-committee, to confer with the Lords.

Sir Edwyn Sandys to make the Report, and be the Penman to join with the Lords. - The Lords desire it this Afternoon.

Mr. Secretary Calvert sent to the Lords, with Message, that our Sub-committee will be ready to meet the Subcommittee of their Lordships, at their own Time.

Concealments.

The Committees for Concealments, and Monopolies, to be prepared with all Expedition.

This Afternoon, for Concealments, Court of Wards.

Negotiations with Spaine.

Secretary Calvert reports from the Lords. - They are very glad of the Correspondence. - Appointed this Afternoon. Two a Clock, Painted Chamber.

Sir Rob. Philips: - This Letter, now read, of 1614. - Sir Jo. Digby: - This to shew, that -

Sir Edw. Sandys delivereth in the Reasons from the Committee: Which were read.

Sir Nath. Rich: - To have some Addition* Words : " which cannot so conveniently done, during these Treaties."

Chancellor Exchequer: - The Occasion of his sending to the Arch-duchess. - One Reason, excepted against the Validity of his Commission. Every Day after some Defect or other in the Commission. - The Infanta no Power, when he came. -

At this Time my Lord Digby speaks of, wrote also to him in the same Language. -

When Mansfeild passed into the Provinces, they would not admit of any Cessation,unless the King would declare -

The Letters read in the House, which were delivered in Yesterday at the Conference.

Mr. Secretary -