House of Commons Journal Volume 1
09 March 1621

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1802

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'House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 09 March 1621', Journal of the House of Commons: volume 1: 1547-1629 (1802), pp. 546-548. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=7167 Date accessed: 22 October 2014.


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Veneris, 9o Martii

Coopers.

L. 1a. - COOPERS.

Style's Nat.

L. 1a. An Act for the Naturalizing of Dorothy Style, the Daughter of Tho. Style, of London, Merchant.

Logwood.

L. 1a. - Logwood.

Cloths.

L. 1a. - Cloths.

Jermy.

L. 1a. - Jermy.

Patents.

Mr. Snelling, - about the Bringing in of the Patents of Winterdennesse and Dungeonnesse. - That these may be delivered in to the Committee for Grievances.

Sea-marks, &c.

Sir Geor. Moore reporteth the Bill for Sea-marks, and Mariners. - That the Patentees heard by Counsel; and so the Trinity-house.

That 8o Eliz. gave Liberty to the Trinity-house, to set up Marks, but providently hindered no other; lest, by their Negligence, Ships might miscarry. - Alleged, that accordingly, by their Negligence, many had miscarried. - That the Committee resolved, no Reason to explain or enlarge this Statute. That the Right of the Admiral now remaineth herein; and so of those Places which have Admiral Jurisdiction. -

That this Bill not to be retained; but to be delivered in, and sleep; for would make a Monopoly.

Resolved, Both these Patents shall be brought in to the Committee for Grievances, upon Question.

The Bill, upon Question of ingrossing, rejected.

Bills of Grace. -

Mr. Recorder bringeth in Two Bills of Grace: 1. Making the Estates of attainted Persons liable to the Payment of their Debts: The 2d, For Relief of the King's Tenants, in case of Forfeiture for Non-payment of Rent. The last re-delivered to him. Attainted

Attainted Persons Debts.

L. 1a. An Act for making the Estates of Persons liable to the Payment of their Debts.

Outlawries.

Mr. Recorder; - That in the Bill he received from the Clerk, he left out the Clause concerning Outlawries in personal Actions.- -

Forfeitures.

Moveth, that, where Forfeitures come to meane Lords, it may be provided for them accordingly.

Wadham College.

L. 2a. Wadham College. -

Mr. Wentworth conceiveth a Doubt, whether Colleges, erected sithence the Statute 13o, for Provision, be tied to it. - To have the Situation of the College also provided for. -

Committed to Sir Jo. Strangewayes, Sir Tho. Row, Sir Edw. Gyles, Sir Tho. Wentworth, Mr. Benningfeild, Sir Jo. Bennet, Sir Tho. Hamond, Sir Francis Barnam, Mr. Wentworth, Sir Clement Edmonds, Mr. Noye, Mr. Greenevyle, Sir Jo. Walter, Sir Ro. Hatton, Mr. Hackwyll: - Wednesday next. Exchequer-chamber.

Jernegan's Bill.

Mr. Denney reporteth Jernegan's Bill. - That the Lords, by Law, might, by Law, levy a Fine, and suffer a Recovery, to bar the Issue. That John, the Son, of full Age; and the Wife's Consent appeared to the Committee.

Upon the Question, to be ingrossed.

Grievances - Proceedings against Monperson.

Mr. Mallory: - That his Mouth is open, and his Heart free. - Will spare none, though they sit in Chairs ; whereof Mr. Speaker likely to have a Share. -

That Mr. Speaker came out of the Chair, without Consent of the House.

Sir Ro. Phillippes : - That he loveth the Speaker's Person ; yet admonisheth him, that sometime neglecteth his Duty to the House, in intricating, or deferring, the Question. -

That resolved (as by the Order, now read, appeareth) every Man, in his Part, was to mention the several Referrees; yet, that this totally omitted : It may be, through Forgetfulness, and want of Ease in standing; or through the Incertainty how to prove who the Referrees ; or through Unwillingness to mention them, in respect of the Greatness of their Places. - Hopeth, this not the Cause. -

For justifying our own Proceedings, and especially of the Honour of the King, -

Or else to send to the Lords To-morrow Morning, to let them know, how far we are satisfied of the King's noble Care in all his Proceedings.

Sir James Perrott: - Thinketh a Cause of this Omission might be, because they not here Yesterday. -

That Sir Edw. Coke delivered, this House alone had no Power to punish any, but Members thereof, or Dependents thereupon.

Mr. Nevyll: - Must a little reflect upon Mr. Speaker, that he hath made many plausible Motions abortive. - Commendeth the Introductor, and Concluder. - He the Hercules of this House; of the Honour and Justice of it. - Will not tax the rest; but, - that he, that looketh to the Clouds, shall not sow.

That the Referrees as transcendent Delinquents of any. That their Souls made a wilful Elopement from their Bodies, when made their Certificates for Law and Conveniency. Some of the Referrees only passive, others active : The last criminal, yea, capital Offenders. -

Moveth, the House would take Consideration of them, without any Connivence.

Sir Tho. Wentworth : - Not to question the Members of our own House, for their Omission; but to have it supplied by a new Course. -

Wisheth, the Certificate for gold and silver Lace may be brought in. -

That Sir Edw. Coke said nothing, which might abridge the Power of this House : - But wisheth Men would not apprehend a Power before they have it. -

Excuseth the rest, because, in some Cases, no Certificates. -

Moveth, to help this by a Message to the Lords,

Sir Tho. Row: - That the Order, for mentioning the Referrees, so broken, as much dishonoured the House. -

The great Things omitted : The Imprisonment particularly omitted; Sophistication of Silk; taking away yellow Silk for gold; the Shares and Sharers, and Proclamations, omitted: - To have all these punctually set down by the Committee ; and the same Messenger to deliver, To-morrow Morning, what he ought to have done before.

Sir Edw. Gyles: - Sorry of this Speech; but vae illi, from whom the Occasion. - Their Fault if they knew not the Order, not to have come hither, and have asked.

- If commanded by the House, would have named his Great-grandfather. - The King on our Side. - The Clearing the King's Honour not respected Yesterday, as ought to have been.

Mr. Hackwill: - He conceived, every One of them ought to have mentioned the Referrees. - That he a Referree, to whom either the Lawfulness, or Conveniency, of the Grant referred. - That no such in his Part: For in the Warrant for 200 l. per Annum, no Reference, either for Lawfulness, or Conveniency ; but to the Solicitor-general, to draw up the Book ; as hath seen the Petition. - That Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer and Mr. Solicitor made Agreements with Sir G. Monperson, which much restrained that Grant. - Thinketh it of great Consequence, the Referrees should be touched. - That not proved at the Committee, who the Referrees for the Patents of gold and silver Thread.

Mr. Crew : - Hath the Testimony of his own Heart of his true Desire to serve the House; and that he omitted nothing for Fear or Love. - That he examined the Patents for Ostryes : That he cleared the King in it, that he had never proceeded, but according to his Proclamation 1, and Declaration 8o; and that the King had not proceeded in any, without a Certificate of Lawfulness, and Conveniency. That he never yet saw any Petition, or Certificate, about any of the Patents for Ostryes; how therefore could he name those, he knew not ? That yet he said, the King had proceeded upon Certificate, which yet was not come to the House.

Mr. Recorder : - Sorry he hath offended the House; for had as great a Desire to serve the House faithfully, as any other. - His Time small; the Pains, in searching, great : Had not done reading, till Ten of the Clock Yesterday ; was not in Bed Yesterday : Driven to employ it in the House. - For the Referrees ; Dykes and Fowles examined for the Referrees, no One certainly appeared. -

That no Petition, or Certificate, ever seen by him. That he delivered, all the Patents, Proclamations, Commissions. &c. were in origine unlawful. -

That, at the Committee, they came to speak of the Referrees ; and resolved to do it, if they could find them.

Mr. Alford: - That he warned them before of haste.

- Never saw Parliament so out of Order. - Not to send to the Lords, till we be ready. -

Moveth, the Speaker may go out of his Chair, and so debate this presently in a Committee.

Sir Edwyn Sands: - That his Part rather a Matter of Form, than Substance.

Sir Edw. Coke: - Speaketh nothing of himself; for cleared before his going to the Lords, and now sithence.

- That he misliked some Omissions; that therefore he informed the Lords, much was omitted ; and desired, we might not be prejudiced in it. - Thinketh, the Lords will give us a very speedy Conference; wisheth therefore to do something seasonable in it. - That sufficient done Yesterday, to condemn Sir G. Monperson ; but that we shall never cure the Wound of the Commonwealth, till searched the Bottom. That, if we cannot come to the Originals, let us take the Confession of Sir H. Yelverton, who particeps criminis. - That this was said to be referred to the Lord Chancellor, then Attorney, &c. This for Point of Law. -

And, for Matter of State, referred it to the Earl of Suffolke, Secretaries Winwood and Lake; wherein also the Serjeants at Law joined, and the now Lord Treasurer One. - That some committed by Sir H. Y. but not to continue long, without further Warrant; therefore that confirmed by the Lord Chancellor. -

That Sir D. Digges did excellently; - apte, distincte, et ornate, dicere; breviter, et perspicue:- - The Second gravely and discretely, like a Common Lawyer: For the Third ; would not have him blemished, but would have him supply what he forgat: For the last; he did also well. -

That these Gentlemen should supply it, before the Lords send to us.

Sir Ro. Phillippes: - That the Patent referred to the now Lord Chancellor, Lord Treasurer, and Sir H. Yelverton; and advised to change the Patent into an Indenture -

That Sir H. Yelverton confessed, he committed Paske, and Four others, at the Importunity of Sir Edw. Villyers; but yet with a Letter to the Lord Chancellor, that, he was pressed to it by Sir Edw. Villyers; and would discharge them, if his Lordship did not confirm it. That, after, the Lord Chancellor, upon hearing, committed them close Prisoners. That these, Papers of Importance, Letters, &c. remain with the Lord Chancellor.

Master of the Wards justifieth the Report of Sir Ro. Phillippes: - That he before mentioned the Referrees, who are the Parties faulty ; and the Discovery of their Faults cleareth the King. That he made this Motion, in Duty to the King, and this House : Knew not then, who they were: Now great ones discovered; whom would have discovered, if had known them. - Secondeth Mr. Alford's Motion.

Mr. Nich. Griffyn: - That Sir H. Y. questioned here in divers Points. - That he may be brought hither, to answer them.

Sir H. Manners: - That Mr. Speaker but a Servant to the House; and not a Master, nor a. Master's Mate.

Mr. Speaker: - That the Order justified -

Sir H. Withrington - That Mr. Speaker, the Fault of all their Faults, by preventing them with their Rising.

Sir Wm. Herberte: - That he was required by the greatest Voice of the House to sit still. That he must respect the meanest, as well as those about the Chair.

Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer: - To have a present Committee.

Sir Nath. .... - That he may never rise out of the House, at an inconvenient Time; nor at the ordinary Time, if the House oppose it, without deciding it by Question.

Sir Geor. Moore: - Hath known the House long: Never knew better Accordance, both for Religion, King, Kingdom, &c. -

The End now, Preservation of the King's Honour, Relief of the Grievances of the Commonwealth; and that they, which have wronged the King, by Miscertificate, &c. may be known. - A present Committee.

Mr. Speaker to go out of his Chair, and none to go out of the House.

Mr. Speaker to attend here again in the Afternoon.

Grievances.

UPON Question, Resolved, That a Message to go to the Lords, early To-morrow Morning, to let them know, much was omitted at the last Conference; therefore to move the Lords, before they meet, to give us a Second Hearing; and Sir Edw. Coke to be the Messenger.

And Resolved, Mr. Crew, that dealeth with the Patent for Inns and Ostryes, shall name the Referrees to the Lords; and that there is a Fee, in the Patent, to the Justices of Assise, of 5 s. which affirmed in this House to have been paid them.

Mr. Recorder to mention, to the Lords, the Referrees; the Advisers of thePatents, Proclamations, Commissions, Indentures ; the Sharers; the Menacers; - that a heavier Hand should fall upon them; - if a thousand of them died in Prison, and rotted, no matter: - The Imprisonment of Paske, and other Citizens, by Five Weeks. -

And whatsoever else Mr. Recorder can find out, to acquaint the House with it. -

Robbery, and Rapine of Goods and Tools; particularly, of yellow Silk, instead of gold Thread; Sophistication and Falsifying of the Stuff; the Melting of English Coin; the Warrant dormant; the Oyer and Terminer upon the Proclamation, and That to the Parties themselves.