Henry VIII
November 1544, 21-25


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James Gairdner and R. H. Brodie (editors)

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'Henry VIII: November 1544, 21-25', Letters and Papers, Foreign and Domestic, Henry VIII, Volume 19 Part 2: August-December 1544 (1905), pp. 383-396. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=80348 Date accessed: 21 April 2014. Add to my bookshelf


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November 1544, 21-25

21 Nov.647. Harrow on the Hill.
Close Roll.
36 Hen. VIII.
p. 5, No. 32.
Rymer, XV.
Surrender to the Crown by Thomas abp. of Canterbury of the advowson of the rectory of Harrow on the Hill, Midd. Westm., 18 Nov. 36 Hen. VIII.
Ratified by the dean and chapter of Canterbury in their chapter house, 21 Nov. 1544.
21 Nov.648. The Privy Council to Hertford, Gardiner and Wotton.
St. P., X. 211.
The King, understanding by your letters of the 17th inst. that you have told the Emperor plainly the state of your message, expects that you will shortly receive final answer; whereupon you, my lords of Hertford and Wynton, shall repair to his Highness with diligence. He requires you to repeat his suit for the duke of Alberquercq, reminding the Emperor of his promise to you, Mr. Wotton, for the next vacation, and declaring that the man who was then preferred to it is since deceased and the Duke remains here only in hope that the Emperor's answer will be the more beneficial.
Draft in Petre's hand, pp. 3. Endd.: M. to th'erle of Hertford and the bisshop of Winchester, etc., xxjo Novembris 1544.
21 Nov.649. Shrewsbury and Others to the Council.
Add. MS.
32, 656, f. 46.
ii., No. 365.
Perceive by the Council's letters of the 15th inst. that the King likes their resolution touching the garrisons, and would have their opinion eftsoons therein before the end of this month. Cannot certainly say whether it is expedient for the King to withdraw any power from the Borders; for, if the Scots who lately covenanted to serve him keep promise, there are no exploits to be done, and, on the other side, if the Scots so agree at this Parliament as lately reported, and lay garrisons for the annoyance of the assured Scots and execution of their malice upon the King's territories (albeit it seems unlikely that they can do so without aid from France, which they have so long looked for) the garrisons should be able both to support the assured Scots and to defend and offend the enemies. Again, if a garrison is to be laid at Coldingham, there should be a power at hand to relieve it if necessary.
Enclose letters just received from lord Wharton, who appears to have done honest service. Darneton, 21 Nov. 1544. Signed: Frauncis Shrewesbury: Cuth. Duresme: Rafe Sadleyr.
Pp. 2. Add. Endd.
21 Nov.650. Charles V. to Henry VIII.
St. P., x. 210.
Received yesterday, by Hertford and Winchester, Henry's letters of the 14th. They can report their communications here upon their charge. Will at once despatch the personage deputed to reside with Henry, jointly with Chappuis (if his health permits) to inform Henry of the Emperor's intention with regard to the observance of the amity. Bruxelles, 21 Nov. 1544. Signed. Countersigned: Bave.
French, broadsheet, p. 1. Add. Endd.
vii., 249.]
2. Modern transcript of the original minute of the above at Vienna. French, p. 1.
21 Nov.651. Charles V. to Chapuys.
vii., 251.]
The earl of Arfort and bp. of Wyncestre are returning; and, because unable to take conclusion on their charge, the Emperor has decided to despatch, forthwith, him who is to reside as ambassador in Chapuys's place with the King of England, with ample instruction of all that has passed here with them. Because the thing is very important, the Emperor earnestly requires Chapuys to pass again to the King, to represent and justify the Emperor's answer to the said English ambassadors; as he can do better than anyone else, because of the esteem in which the King holds him, his familiarity (habitude) with the King and Council, and his proved dexterity. Were it not that the thing requires it, would not put him to this trouble, knowing his indisposition. After instructing (après avoir encheminê) his successor he shall return soon without awaiting further order. Despatches this by express courier that, pending the coming of the said Vander Delft, Chapuys may prepare for the journey. Bruxelles, 21 Nov. 1544.
Fr. Modern transcript of the original minute at Vienna, p. 1.
21 Nov.652. Vaughan to Paget.
R.O.By Blewmanter, I received your letter and the paper therein. And where you wrote that you sent a letter by one Cowper who called himself a servant to Wm. Damesell, Cowper came to Andwerp this day, an hour after Blewmantel, saying that, between Newport and Odenburgh, he lost out of his sleeve all the letters which were delivered to him at Calles. I have sent him back to seek them; and, as he seems in great despair, have sent with him one Dun, who has both language and wit and (not finding them) will bring him to you in England. Describes what he is doing upon Paget's commissions to get velvet, damask, andirons, &c., and a bason. The linen cloth he bought at midsummer is still undelivered, as my lady asked that it might remain in Vaughan's house until sent for. The King's things whereof he has charge frame well; but if they are to take effect, Jasper Dowche must be paid all the money made of the sale of his herrings, and that before Candlemas, as Vaughan has written to my lord Chancellor this day, for without Jasper Dowche's favour the King cannot be served here for money. My folks at home need your favour, for I have left my things "wonderful rawly," many young folks and nobody to oversee them except my substitute in mine office of the Faculties, who is an honest young man. It is said that the French king has prested in Almayn 15,000 Almayns, and that Peter Stroche should be sent into Scotland with 8,000 or 10,000 Italians. The Scots have taken many Hollanders' ships upon the seas and, with such as they take of ours, wax wealthy again. Frenchmen have laden many herrings in Dunkyrke, but dare not stir out of the haven for fear of the King's ships. We have great need of herrings, and I trust to the two barrels you promised me at Calles. This day an Italian asked whether I thought that the King would grant any licence for carrying herrings into France. Much money would be given for safe-conducts, and there are many devices between the Frenchmen and those here for conveying "things from hence into France by color." Andwerp, 21 Nov.
If he cannot find suitable white damask here he will write to a servant at London to deliver 22 yds. there.
P.S.—Has written to his servant to bring white damask to Paget, who may take what he pleases, "for here is none good."
Hol., pp.3. Add. Endd.: 1544.
22 Nov.653. The Privy Council to Shrewsbury.
Shrewsb. Ms.,
A., p. 165.
Lodge, I. 77.
The King has seen your letters of the 19th inst., and, thinking Coldingham a meet place to be kept if it may be fortified, has presently sent down his servant Archan, an Italian, to view the places, with whom you shall join Mr. Carpenter and Mr. Mason of Berwick. If it may be in short time made tenable it is to be garrisoned; if not, the "said hold" is to be rased to the ground. As to the letters of the lairds of Cesfourthe and Farnehurste, a post is to be laid at Jedworth and order taken that the servants of the said lairds may pass to and fro; and as to their desire to be supported with men and money, they are to be'told that the King will see them aided as need shall require; and 400 cr. are to be bestowed between them, for their relief and the entertainment of such as join them in the King's service, to be continued for another month, and further if they deserve it. Westm., 22 Nov. 1544. Signed by Suffolk, Russell, Browne, Petre, Ryche and Bakere.
Pp. 2. Add.
Add. MS.
32, 656, f. 48.
ii., No. 366.
2. Original draft of the above.
In Petre's hand, pp. 2. Endd.: M. to therle of Shrewsbury, xxijo Novembris 1544.
22 Nov.654. Hertford, Gardiner and Wotton to Henry VIII.
St. P., x. 212.
Wrote on the 17th of their communication with the Emperor, and solicited answer on the Tuesday (fn. 1) ; upon which day arrived letters from Henry's Council with instructions for their return, and also letters to the Emperor certifying the invasion of the Frenchmen, "which we shall deliver." Upon Wednesday, (fn. 2) after dinner, Grandvela sent for them, with whom they found the bp. of Arraz and President Skore; for Mons. de Prate was departed that morning to Brydges to visit his son, who is in danger of death. Grandvela said that, where we precisely required the Emperor's declaration against the Frenchmen, in respect of the amity, the Emperor requires us to forbear to speak further of that matter for ten weeks; the French king, he said, is slow in restoring things in Italy, and the Emperor must needs go to treat with the Germans, and meanwhile you might fortify Boleyn and the Emperor induce the French king to reason, "and that one goeth principally to the French king to solicit your Highness's matter;" and Grandvela reminded us that they were content with like answer from you in the King of Denmark's case and also the duke of Cleves'. This was said, with many assurances that the Emperor would do all that he was bound to do. After communing apart, we replied that we gathered that our message was not fully understanded; for we came rather to know what the Emperor would do than when he would put it in execution, to the intent that, upon know- ledge thereof, you might resolve "how to come forth and finish this war." In the case of Denmark and Cleves you had required delay only in the execution; and, so, if they proceeded to treat for such delay, doubtless you would have respect to your friend's commodity; if we were not answered in our principal message, but to be delayed ten weeks and then be no further forward, you must needs think it very strange dealing. Grandvela replied that they made their answer thus in order that the Emperor might say he had "innovate" nothing with you since the treaty with France, but would do as he was bound; and it was to be noted that they asked only ten weeks and would not fail one jot in that which the Emperor was bound to. We said that at our return with this answer we feared you would not take the matter well; and asked to speak with the Emperor, to deliver letters.
Upon Thursday (fn. ) afternoon Mountfawkonnet brought us to the Emperor, to whom we delivered your letters and declared particularly the invasion at Guisnes and in England made by the French, and that he was therefore bound to take the French king as enemy. He said that, by your consent he was not bound; and we replied that the consent was conditional, and even if it were not it could not exclude what was done after. "Well, quoth th'Emperor, you say one thing and my Council another; who shall be, quoth he, judge?" We said we could not mistrust his judgment, remembering that in our first conference he told us he was bound both to you and the French king, but he was first bound to you. He asked what his Council had said to us yesterday and called Grandvela and the Viceroy to hear it; and we repeated both it and our answer, fashioning it as though, if affairs permitted, they would speak to your satisfaction. Express surprise that it was thus accepted and yet intended to be used by the Emperor as liberty to affirm that he only gave us "a general answer that he would observe his treaty." Told the Emperor then that a plain answer would have seemed more friendly. After consulting with Grandvela and the Viceroy, the Emperor appointed Grandvela to reply, which he did, very gently, as on the day before, with great inculcation that the Emperor would observe the treaties, and that the delay was but two months or ten weeks, which could be no detriment to you and would enable the Emperor to use that honesty in speech which he has always used; it would therefore like you to forbear to press the Emperor for these ten weeks and meanwhile to conceive the opinion that he would observe his treaties. We then said we had fulfilled our commission and could only report his answer, which we desired to have in writing. He answered not directly but said "he would send one to your Highness who should satisfy your Majesty herein." He then gently gave us leave to return, and desired us to make his recommendations to you, with assurance that he would keep his treaties in every point. Reminded him for the Duke of Alberkirke, and he answered that he was about to do somewhat therein.
Took leave of Grandvela there; but the Viceroy would needs come to our lodging yesternight to take leave of us with many good words. He showed us that he was returning into Italy by France, as the posts were more com- modious. Speaking with him of our answer from the Emperor, he said we had done well, and that the Emperor's message would satisfy your Highness, and he thought some special man would be sent with it besides the ambassador that should be despatched thither. Told him the Emperor had made a glorious peace in compelling the French king to give pledges.
He said France was in marvellous perplexity, and, in reply to our questions, that the Emperor must determine the alternative for the marriage of the Duke of Orlyance within four months from the date of the treaty, that the hostages now here were only for the delivery of the towns in Piedmont (of which all taken since the treaty of Niece were now delivered save Alba Regalis belonging to the duke of Mantua in the marquisate of Montferrate), that the duke of Savoy should be wholly restored when the marriage was determined, that the Emperor had good surety thereof, and that if Orlyaunce got Myllayn the Emperor might retain the fortresses.
Wotton went yesternight to Grandvela to remind him for the having the answer in writing, and was told that the Emperor thought that unnecessary, as it was so well understood, and that one should be despatched to you next morning, therewithal wishing that Chapuis were able to repair to you. Grandvela said the Emperor would send a letter by us, and expressed regret that we were leaving before noon, as he meant to have come to us to purge himself of the evil opinion which he feared you had conceived of him.
Send herewith the copy of the French king's offers for a peace with you, sent to the Emperor and delivered to us yesterday by Joyse. Grandvela seemed to think them slender, and we (as they are worthy) took them likewise. We show ourself not content with this blind answer, so as to accelerate the repair of the man to your Majesty. Cannot tell how he is to satisfy you, unless he is to tell you by mouth what they dare trust to no other man's secrecy. Both here and in Spain men are unwilling that Orlyaunce should have "these countries"; and here they ask why they have paid to be defended from France "and now should be offered up unto them." The princes of Italy are as unwilling to have the French among them.
Wrote this letter yesterday, but were compelled to delay until this morning for the Emperor's letter; and now they and this post leave this town together. Brucelles, 22 Nov. Signed.
In Gardiner's hand, pp. 12. Endd.: Th'erle of Hertf., etc., to the K's Majestie, xxij Novembr. 1544.
Add. MS.
25, 114, f. 315.
2. Contemporary copy of the above.
Pp. 8. Endd.: To the King's Majesty, 22 Nov. 1544.
St. P., x. 218.
vii., 220.]
3. The French offers.
The Most Christian King had, before the treaty of peace between the Emperor and him, sent his deputies to the King of England with reasonable offers, which, however, were not accepted, and therefore there remained the other course, viz., arbitration, he having, by his treaty with the Emperor, submitted to abide the Emperor's judgment as to his differences with England about certain past treaties, and to that end offered to send deputies. But, because the Emperor thought that means of amicable pacification should first be tried and made a friendly request to the Most Christian King to send ambassadors to confer with the King of England's Council, he again sent Cardinal du Bellay and President Raymon (to try, before the Emperor's deputies, if he could amicably agree with the said king of England), who, although able to show that the debts claimed by the King of England are already more than paid and that that King has infringed the treaty in virtue of which he claims them, nevertheless, for the public good and for the Emperor's sake, offered, as final, that the remainder of two millions of gold claimed by the treaty of A.D. 1525 should be paid at the rate of 25,000 cr. a year, and that the life pension (pension viagiere) of 100,000 cr. should be paid. As to the perpetual pension of 5l,000 cr. they referred to the treaty; because the King of England, having invaded France, burnt the Boullonoys and seized Boulogne, has violated his promise to leave the peaceful enjoyment of the realm of France to the Most Christian King and his successors, which is the sole cause of that pension, and it should therefore be void.
Although these offers seem more than reasonable, still, out of regard to the Emperor, the Most Christian King, although he had decided not to exceed them, is content to pay, upon the million of gold or other sum which shall be found due of the said two millions, 200,000 cr. during the present year (viz., at Easter next and All Saints following) and of the life pension 100,000 cr. (viz., at May Day next and All Saints following, the terms appointed by the treaty); and thereafter to pay the life pension and, moreover, at the terms of that pension, 50,000 cr. yearly in reduction of the said million; and to deliver such sureties for the payment as the Emperor shall advise. As to the perpetual pension, although (as aforesaid) it is void, the Most Christian King refers it all to the Emperor, provided that Boullongne is restored, without which restoration the above offers are to be taken as not made. And he prays the Emperor to believe that if he could do more he would do it; and this is no small offer, considering what expenses he has sustained for these three years, and also that (the Turk being likely to make an effort next year), after appointing with England, he must be at great expense in pursuance of the late treaty between the Emperor and him.
If it happen that, contrary to all reason, the King of England refuses the above offers, the Most Christian King is quit of them and prays the Emperor to hold him discharged of his said submission, especially as the King of England refuses to submit to like judgment.
French, pp. 4. Contemporary copy, endd.: Articles of the French king's submission to the Emperor.
R.O.4. Modern copy of § 3, from the original at Vienna.
French, pp. 3. Described as: "Joint a la lettre de Chapuys a Granvelle du 8 Octobre."
23 Nov.655. The Privy Council to Shrewsbury.
Shrewsb. MS.,
A., p. 169.
The King sends bearer, Archane, his servant, for the purposes described in their letter of yesterday. Order is to be taken with lord Evre for the readiness of Mr. Mason and Mr. Carpenter of Berwick to pass with him to Coldingham. Westm., 23 Nov., 1544. Signed by Wriothesley, Suffolk, Westminster, St. John, Gage, Browne, Wingfield, Petre, Bakere and Ryche.
P. 1. Add.
23 Nov.656. Shrewsbury and Others to Henry VIII.
Add. MS.
32, 656, f. 50.
Papers, ii.,
No. 367.
Yesternight arrived Sir George Bowes from Barwycke with the letters and credence from lord Evers sent herewith. He says that Coldingham was won without resistance, and that if Henry would give the barony of Coldingham to him and his heirs he would, with his retinue of 100 now in garrison on the Borders, keep it without further charge to the King than the wages of the said retinue during the wars, and meanwhile fortify it at his own charge, so as to be tenable unless the enemies bring a great power with great ordnance, which they could not do so suddenly but that the lords Wardens should have time to relieve him. Enclose sundry other letters from lords Evers and Wharton, and from Hull, Whitbye and Scarburghe. Darneton, 23 Nov. 1544. Signed by Shrewsbury, Tunstall and Sadler.
Pp. 2. Add.
[23 Nov.]657. —— to the Laird of Cessford.
Add. MS.
32, 655, f. 254.
B. M.
ii., No. 347.
Departed out of Edinburgh this Sunday and came to Halyden, believing that you were there. The laird of Dumlaynryk, Mark Ker, and Coldenknowis are come from the lords in Stirllyng and say that the Governor and the Dowglas are agreed, "and the lord of Kilmawarris for the slaughter of his son (fn. 4) and the lave of his folks." Likewise the Queen and the Governor, the laird of Jhonston and Dunlalarryk, John Chairterus and the laird of Crawige. The Queen is principal of the Council of 16 lords, without whose advice the Governor can do nothing. Abbeys and bishoprics that fall vacant shall be held to sustain men of war to the Border. The Governor and Cardinal and all the lords with all their power meet on Thursday evening (fn. 5) at Lawder, and Angus and the Westland men in Beplis; "and opyn proclamation mayd that all thai that byddis at the haym, thai that gais afeild sall haif thair ascheit." The boroughs and kirkmen fee 1,000 culverin men. "The realm goes to quarters again and remains on the Border, and proclamation made to bring xij days' victual." The earl Boythwell is put off the Governor's council because he gave a wrong decree against the merchants; and the earl of Cassilis likewise, because he put hands on the abbot of Glenluice. This Saturday at even came in two French ships reporting that the Dolphin of France has won Bolloinye again, the Emperor and king of France are agreed, the Emperor gives his daughter to the king of France's son with Sylayn and Braben and the king of France gives over his title of Myllen and Sawoy. Halyden.
ii. Note in Tunsta's hand: Thys lettre was sent to the lord off Cesforde.
P. 1. Endd.
23 Nov.658. Vaughan to Paget.
R.O.Has sent Paget, in the ship that carries the King's gunpowder, a pair of andirons of latton weighing 50 lb., at 9d. Fl. the pound, with iron feet weighing 37 lb., at 2d. Fl. the pound, a pair of tongs, a fire shovel and a fire fork cost 8s. 2d. Fl, 23 Fl. ells of fine Holland cloth at 16 stivers or 2s. 6d. Fl. the ell, and 25 Fl. ells of the best crimson velvet to be had in Andwerp, as Blew Mantell can tell, at 17s. Fl. the ell. All these are consigned to Ric. Carrell, dwelling by the Taylours Hall, to whom also Mr. Palmer's factor consigns the damask cloths bought before Vaughan's coming, Carrell having formerly been a servant to Mr. Palmer. Writes to the Council concerning his charge. Andwerp, 23 Nov.
Hol., p. 1. Add. Endd.: 1544.
24 Nov.659. The Privy Council to Lord Grey of Wilton.
R.O.We have received your letters; and, for answer, the King desires you to deliver the Burgundians taken for the victualling of Arde to Mons. de Chapuis, ambassador for the Emperor, with request that order may be taken by the Emperor or his Council for their punishment. Touching the cutting off victuals to be sent to Arde, under convoy of 400 or 500 horse- men, from Tyrwyne, the King is content that, with due care, you shall endeavour to annoy the enemy; not doubting but that you will consult Mr. Wallope and Mr. Bray in any great enterprise "according to the order [t]a[ken] by some of us at our being there." Westm., 24 Nov. 1544.
Draft, corrected by Paget, p. 1. Endd.: M. to the 1. Grey Wilton at Guisnez.
24 Nov.660. Parliament of Scotland.
Acts of the
P. of Sc.,
ii., 448.
Held at Edinburgh, 24 Nov. 1544, by David earl of Crawfurd, Wm. lord Sempill, John abbot of Paisley, Mr. James Foulis of Colintoun, clerk of Register, Mr. Thos. Ballenden, clerk of Justiciary, Mr. Hen. Lauder, advocate, commissioners, together with Patrick Baroun, deputy constable, James Lindesay, deputy marshal, and David Loure, judicator. Business: —Summonses against Angus, Bothwell and Douglas continued to 26 Nov.
24 Nov.661. Charles V. and Henry VIII.
Add. MS.
28, 594, f. 22.
vii., 253.]
"Instruction a vous, Messire Eustace Chappuys, nostre conseillier et maistre aux requestes ordinaire, et vous, Messire Françoys Vander Delft, chevalier, que envoyons resider pour ambassadeur devers le roy d'Angleterre au lieu de vous ledit Messire Eustace, de ce que aurez a dire et remonstrer sur la charge pour laquelle les Conte de Harforq et evesque de Wyncester sont esté de la part dudit Sr Roy devers nous."
Vander Delft shall take with him in writing what has passed at the first, second and other communications by Praet and Granvelle with the above- said, (fn. 6) and the first answer (fn. 7) delivered to the said English, of which the said writings make mention. And because the said Earl and Bishop were not satisfied with that answer and showed Praet and Granvelle and afterwards the Sieur de [Courrieres] (fn. 8) that the treaties ought to be examined,— notwithstanding that, as the said writing shows, they had sufficiently debated the treaty of confederation between the Emperor and the King, and had refused to see those of the peace with France, the other made with Don Fernande de Gonzaga, and the writing made at Spire and accepted by secretary Paget; yet, to satisfy the English, the Emperor again made Praet and Granvelle with the bp. Of Arras and President Schoire com- municate with them (fn. 9) ; who insisted on all the said treaties being seen, especially the two of England and the said writing and the article of the peace with France. And after the reading of all the said treaties and writing the said English ambassadors renewed their insistence that the Emperor could not make treaty with France without their consent and that their claim should be satisfied, especially that to which they restricted themselves in the writing sent (when Arras was with the King) to their ambassador with the Emperor. And they grounded themselves upon the 6th, 19th and 20th articles of the treaty and the article of reservation in the said treaty with France, insisting upon the precise words of the treaty, and that the Emperor confirmed the necessity for their master's consent by sending Arras for it, maintaining that their master had given it under two two conditions, one that his treaty with the Emperor should be reserved and [the other] (fn. 10) that he should be satisfied; and that so their master had put it immediately after delivering that answer to Arras; and it was unlikely that a wise prince would have consented otherwise, and rather to be believed that Arras and all men of good judgment would not otherwise understand the King's answer. This view was also supported by Arras's having at the outset sought to learn how the King stood with the French ambassadors touching his demands, which for that cause were sent to the said ambassador here resident. (fn. 11) With this further agreed what Chapuys told them, that by this peace they would have Boloigne, Ardres and Montreul, assuring them that the Emperor had therein done for the King as for himself, and further, that it would have been well to send the said ambassador resident power to treat of the King's claim, and likewise that the Queen had written to him (Chapuys) "que avions traicte povoir que concernoit ledit Sr Roy(?)"
They were answered that the said articles, especially the 19th, would not serve them, for that article spoke before the war began and not after; and since the words of the treaty were to be taken without any gloss, extension or restriction, as they insisted (fn. 12) ; the thing was clear, "et souffisoit ledit consentement sans plus," and the other article following had only "le consentement." It is true that the article of reservation in the peace with France, made mention of satisfaction, "mais il parloit du passé avant ledit consentement," and that point must be understood with the rest of the article, wherein the French referred that satisfaction to the Emperor; which effaced the objection of the condition of the said consent. Arras was not sent for the said consent, but to intimate how far the Emperor had entered France and the opportunity which offered for overcoming the common enemy; but the King excused himself because of the sieges of Boloigne and Montreul, and delivered the said consent, "dont on ne peult faire illation prejudiciable qu'il fût necessaire," nor does it go to prove the other condition "de la satisfaction dudit Sieur Roy." As to the affirmation that the consent was delivered with these two conditions, as the King related to his Council, and the estimation of the King's word, nothing could be said except that the thing did not lie solely upon Arras's report but was written by the Sieur de [Courrieres] (fn. 13) and Chappuys to the Queen. As to their conferences, some of them by no means served to prove the reservation of the said two conditions; on the contrary, what Chappuys said about not having sent the power rather proved that without it the Emperor could not treat for the King of England,—which, taken with the King's previous saying that each should treat what concerned himself, and the grief which the King expressed at seeing the Emperor in such necessity and being unable to aid him clearly shows that the Emperor could not remain without treating; the King also said that he would treat with Cardinal du Belay, being with him. The said ambassadors were also shown that the Queen's letters did not contain what they said, but rather advertised Chapuys only of the peace and that she did not yet know the particulars.
They were shown, moreover, that the said reservation would have been neither reasonable nor likely, since the King of England excused himself from assisting the Emperor, notwithstanding the capitulation with Don Fernande, and it would have been too hard to refuse the assistance promised and [yet] want the Emperor to oppose the common enemy alone. It was notorious that the King had not kept the capitulation made with Don Fernande, and it might be maintained that, finding himself so far advanced without the King's co-operation, the Emperor could treat without requiring the King's consent.
To this the English ambassadors affirmed that they had kept their part as well as the Emperor,—they were as soon in the field and were hindered because of wagons which ought to have been delivered to them here, and had found it necessary to besiege Montreul "pour soy accommoder de victuailles" and continued that siege because the Emperor did the like at St. Disier for the same necessity, victuals, and if the Emperor had better luck they ought to share his prosperity since they had sustained the war at great expense. And although shown that the fault of the wagons was theirs in not sending soon enough, they stand thereon, as also they do upon the propriety of besieging Montreul and Boloigne although it was pointed out that that was not the way to the Somme and towards Paris, and "que l'evidance l'a monstre par les passages que cy-devant ont este faiz," and that the Count du Roeulx had proposed to them three other ways. And although they could not well develop this point, especially as the law had been given by the said first treaty and declared by the second, they said that it must be understood, to do as the raison de la guerre should direct. And it availed nothing to show them that, by the second treaty, it was expressly required to go to the river Somme, and afterwards to march as should seem best; and that that obligation could not be explained away, especially as they themselves insisted on things being taken literally. As also it availed as little to tell them of the writing passed with Secretary Paiget and the 30,000 men who were to march for the enterprise [into] France, and that the King and his Councillors had said nothing to the contrary; nor that there was a great difference in the Emperor camping before St. Disier, which was already far within France, after having taken Comercy and Ligny, and that the taking of St. Disier was not necessary except that they had to wait for the English to march. They were told, moreover, that they could not deny that the siege of Boloigne was of no service to the common enterprise, and that from the beginning of the war it was apparent that the King's aim was rather the engaging of Boulogne and Montreul than the common enterprise. But the English still insisted that they had entirely complied, and as well as the Emperor, which truly seemed to the Emperor very exorbitant and annoying; how- ever, the remonstrance was made with all gentleness, and they were given to understand that the Emperor would not willingly use as a weapon (nous armer et ayder de) the said inobservance, although it might annul all that the King of England could claim, indeed he could require of the King all that he had lost, ("voire que le pourrions requérir de tous noz interestz").
(fn. 14) After thus examining the first point, they came to the second; and [he] (fn. 15) said that, supposing that by the first the Emperor was not able to treat with France without their consent, and without the King being satisfied, there were also other articles of the said treaty which bound him to declare against France, seeing that not only they were not satisfied but France had moved war upon them since that treaty, both at Guynes and in England, and the treaty requires declaration in case of any invasion. (fn. 16) Whereupon was another long debate touching the King's consent under the said condition of satisfaction (reserving the point of the inobservance) and it was shown that what happened since the peace was because of Boloigne, to the defence of which the Emperor was not bound, and the effort made by the French was not a lasting thing and was now ceased; and, since the Emperor had just made the peace, and even with the King's consent, he ought not so soon or so lightly to reënter [war] nor to seek occasion for it, &c., as in the first communications. But they still insisted that their demand was well founded. And, because the ambassadors said again that without this declaration the treaty between the said King and the Emperor would to him remain fruitless, they were answered as in the first communications, and again told that in several things it was useful to them, the Emperor being therefor at war with Scotland and bound to their defence. Bat they persisted that the Emperor ought to declare himself, saying that it was better that they should know the Emperor's intention, sooner or later, to govern themselves accordingly; and that if he would confidentially assure them that he would declare himself, they would not be particular about requiring it immediately. The answer was that they ought not to be so pressing, seeing that for the present, and in any event, this declaration could not help them, and as all hostilities were now ceasing, they could not demand assistance of the Emperor, and it would be better that the Emperor should treat the agreement between the two Kings; also the Emperor was just leaving to go to the Imperial Diet, and they ought to consider how the King, when required to declare against Cleves, always excused himself by his wish to procure agreement, and indeed gave no hope of making the declaration; and did the same against Denmark, notwithstanding that the Emperor, on his account, declared against the Scots. Finally they asked audience; which the Emperor gave.
In that audience (fn. 17) they resumed the same language and had the same answer, and the Emperor declared his intention to entirely observe the amity where it did not contravene that which he had treated with France with the King's consent (confirming what was declared to them when they alleged the Emperor's saying to them that he would entirely observe, and indeed prefer (fn. 18) , his obligation to the King), and that he would cause them to be told his resolution.
On Granvelle, Arras and the President returning to speak (fn. 19) with the said commissioners in the absence of De Praet, "et estant hors de ce lieu," the like arguments were again addressed to them; and finally stood upon three points, viz., (1) that the Emperor would remain the King's true friend, (2) that he would do as he should find himself bound, and (3) that for the reasons above shown he wished them to suspend this suit for eight or ten weeks (pour huit ou dix sepmaines) during which he would do his best to accord the two kings (and he did not despair of it, seeing that lately the King of France again sent him a writing (fn. 20) concerning that appointment, and even if it did not satisfy him, as the Imperial Commissioners suspected, the King ought to see and answer it). The ambassadors replied that thus they would remain uncertain of the Emperor's intention, which it was important to them to know, and that if told in confidence they would keep it secret. They were answered that the delay was not long, and they ought to trust the Emperor's saying that he would do as he was bound; and that the Emperor wished to remain thus in order that he might do better office with the king of France, who would want to know if the Emperor had settled anything with them, and then it would be best that the Emperor, who would on no account say one thing for another, might be able to say no, representing nevertheless what the King of England sought of the Emperor and the reasons alleged; and also it would be well to be able to say the like to the Empire, to which the Emperor is shortly going, and especially with reference to the aid to be given by France against the Turk, both horse and foot. When all was said they came to this, that they had letters from their master to the Emperor which they wished to present, and to declare their charge.
Afterwards (fn. 21) they presented the letters (copy sent) and, resuming the subject of their communication with the Emperor's aforesaid deputies, they insisted upon the said declaration. The Emperor answered that he did not find that he ought to make it, but they might be sure that he would do as he should find himself bound; and stood to the three points aforesaid, viz., to preserve the amity, fulfil his obligation, and suspend their request for the said period of [two months or ten weeks] (fn. 22) as the King did touching the declaration "contre Indes (fn. 23) et Dennemarque." Thus leaving in suspense what touched the inobservance of the treaty and other objections against their said claim. But the ambassadors said that their master was trusting that the Emperor would forthwith make the said declaration and would certify him by them when he would make it; and, since the Emperor stood to the above they would report it, and, the better to do so, they prayed that they might have his final answer in writing. The Emperor answered that he would despatch to the King expressly; and so avoided delivering the said writing.
Advertises them (Chapuys and Vander Delft) thus amply that they may the better make and justify to the King and Council his request to suspend their demand "pour ledit temps du dix Septembre (sic)," assuring the King of the Emperor's amity and intention to do as he shall find himself bound, and that it is important to the King himself not to seek more of the Emperor at present, that he may be able to do more as to the said accord. Upon opportunity they may, as of themselves, tell the King's ministers that the Emperor might well resent the King's instance to set the Emperor again in war, and withdraw from it himself, especially when no wise person thinks the Emperor bound to declare against France, since he has so justly got out of it, and indeed with the King of England's consent, which ought to be understood as the Emperor's ministers have declared it; and moreover that the Emperor might altogether put himself out of the treaty with England, and demand of the King the loss he has sustained by the King's not fulfilling what was capitulated and leaving the burden of the war on the Emperor's back, in order to make his own particular profit of Boloigne and Montreul, of which he held himself assured; and that, in any case, the King could only demand the aid defensive, "voyre en ce que nous voulsussions retirer de ladicte inobservance et autres exceptions susdictes que quoy que lesdits ambassadeurs ayent demonstre nous faire doubte quelconque, il seroit plus que peremptoire par ladicte inobservance." And it will be well, upon opportunity, to tell the King or his ministers the damage received by the Emperor's countries here from the English by the pillage of men, horses and wagons while in their service and providing them with victuals; and a declaration to this end will shortly be sent.
Finally, they shall take care as far as possible to satisfy the King with the Emperor's answer, assuring him of the Emperor's amity and observance of his obligations, and that the delay is for the best; without, however, saying anything whereby it might be claimed that the Emperor had given up the point of the said inobservance, nor that he will make a weapon of it (nous en voulsisaions armer) except in extremity and in case the King would not be satisfied with that to which the Emperor shall be reasonably found to be bound. Also, nothing must be said by which the English might make their profit with the King of France (to the prejudice of the Emperor's treaty with him) or might think the Emperor inclined to France. If they find that the King's subjects "se impriment mal" against the Emperor they shall inform the King:—that it may be provided against as the amity requires, for in default of their being informed how the Emperor has acted honorably in everything, the Emperor may not be blamed if constrained to declare how things have passed. They shall also see that, under colour of this delay, the King of England does not treat with the French to the Emperor's prejudice; and shall notify what they can learn of the King's wish. And Vander Delft shall act upon Chapuys's advice, who shall return to the Emperor. Brussels, 24 Nov. 1544.
French. Modern copy from Brussels, pp. 16.
25 Nov.662. Shrewsbury and Others to the Council.
Add. MS.
32, 656, f. 58.
ii., No. 368.
Enclose letters received this morning from Lord Eure with espial news from Gilbert Swynehoo of Cornehill.
Perceive by the Council's letters of the 22nd inst., received yesternight, the King's pleasure touching Coldingham (which shall be done as soon as Archan the Italian arrives) and the lairds of Farnyherst and Cesford. Understanding by the Warden of the Middle Marches, who was lately here, that Cesford has not yet subscribed the articles nor laid in his pledge, and having concluded "to prove them in a certain exploit," we forbear, as yet, to bestow the King's money on them. Darneton, 25 Nov. Signed by Shrewsbury, Tunstall and Sadler.
In Sadler's hand, p. 1. Add. Endd.: 1544.
25 Nov.663. Shrewsbury and Others to the Council.
Add. MS.
32, 656, f. 60.
ii., No. 369.
Enclose letters from the Wardens of the East and West Marches with intelligence out of Scotland, and a letter of lord Hewmes to the laird of Millingstanes. Darneton, 25 Nov. 1544. Signed by Shrewsbury, Tunstall and Sadler.
P. 1. Add. Endd.
25 Nov.664. Deputy and Council of Ireland to Henry VIII.
St. P., iii. 505.
There is a castle or peel in the remote parts of this realm marching upon the McYbryne Aras and Omollryans and nigh to the river of Shenan, in a barren soil lately inhabited by thieves "called properly the Olde Evill Children" who robbed and killed all that would pass that way between Lymerike and Waterforde. Desmond, since his submission, has banished them and taken their castle, which the bearer, Tege McBryen, has kept these two years. The castle is a charge which few or no Englishmen would undertake, and the writers beg a grant of it to bearer and his wife (sister to lord Power, now in the King's service) and the heirs male of their bodies, with remainder to the heirs male of his own body. Dublin, 25 Nov. 36 Hen. VIII. Signed by St. Leger, Alen, Ormond, Dublin, Brabazon, Aylmer, Lutrell, Bathe, Cusake, Travers and Houth.
P. 1. Add. Endd.
25 Nov.665. Charles V. to Henry VIII.
vii., 253 A.
Credence for Francois Vander Delft, sent to replace Chapuys, con- cerning the mission of the earl of Hertford and bp. of Winchester.
Original at Vienna, endd.: Brussels, 25 Nov.
25 Nov.666. Charles V. to Chapuys.
vii., 254.]
Although sure that, in pursuance of the Emperor's last letters, he will be prepared to pass again to England with Messire François vander Delf, who is now leaving to reside as ambassador there, the charge is so important that the Emperor [again ?] requires him most earnestly, if his health will anywise bear it, to make the said journey for that alone, "et l'ayant exempté vous en retirerez." Bruxelles, 25 Nov. 1544.
French. Modern transcript of the original minute at Vienna, p. 1.
25 Nov.667. Charles V. to Norfolk.
vii. 255.]
I now despatch Messire Francois van der Delft, chevalier, my councillor, to reside as ambassador with the king of England, having charged Messire Eustace Chappuis, also my councillor and ordinary [master] of requests, to accompany him and again visit the King, if health will permit, and afterwards return. Because from one or the other you will learn their charge, I only pray you to credit them and promote the continuance of the perfect amity between my good brother and me. Bruxelles, 25 Nov. 1544.
Fr. Modern transcript of the original minute at Vienna, p. 1.


1 Nov. 18th.
2 Nov. 19th.
3 Nov. 20th.
4 Glencairn's son Andrew was slain at Glasgow Muir, 24 May 1544. Diurnal of Occurrents.
5 Nov. 27th. See No. 636.
6 Nos. 507,577(2).
7 No. 577?
8 See No. 605. The copyist here has been unable to read the name.
9 On 12 Nov. See No. 605.
10 Omitted?
11 Wotton.
12 So they were to be interpreted according to Clause 17 of the treaty (Vol. XVIII. Pt. i. No. 144).
13 Blank left for the name by the transcriber.
14 What follows is not in the abstract in Spanish Calendar.
15 The French is simply et dit, without showing who was the speaker.
16 Depuis ce premier point ainsi examiné, ilz sont venuz à l'autre second et dit que supposant que par le premier nous n'ayons peu traicter avec ledit (sic) France sans leur consentement et qu'il fût satisfaict, comme dit est, ilz estoient fondez aussi par autres articles dudit traicté à nous déclairer de guerre à l'encontre dudit roy de France, actendu que non seullement ilz n'estoient satisfaiz mais d'advantage que ledit roy de France leur avoit mehu la guerre depuis ledit traicté de paix, tant ou coustel de Guynes que aussi en la costé dudit Angleterre, et que ledit traicté porte expressément de soy déclairer pour quelconque invasion.
17 On 16 Nov. See No. 627.
18 See No. 492, p. 278.
19 On the 19th. See No. 654.
20 No. 654(3).
21 On the 20th. See No. 654.
22 The MS. reads: ledit temps de dix mois ou dix Septembre. Evidently the reading should be: de deux mois ou dix sepmaines.
23 Cleves.