April 1530, 16-30


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'Spain: April 1530, 16-30', Calendar of State Papers, Spain, Volume 4 Part 1: Henry VIII, 1529-1530 (1879), pp. 503-523. URL: Date accessed: 19 April 2014. Add to my bookshelf


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April 1530, 16-30

23 April.290. Eustace Chapuys to the Emperor.
K. u. K. Haus-
Wien Rep.P.Fasc.,
c. 226, No. 23.
The Emperor's letters of the 14th and 25th of March were duly received, the latter only reaching me on Tuesday in Holy Week. Sent the following day to inquire whether the King would receive me; heard in reply, through the duke of Norfolk, that if there was no very pressing business the King would defer his audience till Easter Monday. The Duke on his side also requested this delay, partly because Holy Week is not a good time for the transaction of business, and also because he will be away from Court for a few days and does not wish me to go to the King during his absence.
On the said day, accordingly, the King ordered the duke of Norfolk to send a messenger to remind me of the appointment, and I met the messenger as I was leaving for Vinsor (Windsor). On my arrival there, I was, as usual, a long time with the King, who received me without any appearance of displeasure (marrison), though he said that he had been expecting me for some time, and was surprised that I had not been sooner to report on those points, which, as his ambassadors had informed him a long time before, were mentioned in Your Majesty's letters. This apparent negligence on my part, however, the King himself proceeded to excuse on account of the season at which the letters had arrived. The King having thus given me an opportunity to speak on all and every one of the subjects mentioned in Your Majesty's letters, I did so according to my general instructions, the King frequently interrupting me, especially to contradict and repudiate certain statements, which, he said, were not quite correct. For instance, he denied that his ambassadors had ever refused to abide by the decision of learned men after the cause had been thoroughly argued, and he maintained that they were fully empowered to do this without having to refer home. He also denied their having refused to state their motives (leurs motifz) in writing, and threw all the blame on Your Majesty and your commissioners, who, he said, either dared not, or would not, do the same. Indeed, on these two points, it almost seemed as if the King would risk the assertion that greater faith was to be attached to the reports of his ambassadors than to Your Majesty's letters. (fn. 1) Some altercation then followed, when the King, finding he was beaten by reason and honesty on the first point, made his retreat through an argument which I myself had used a little before whilst debating another matter, (fn. 2) namely, that the secretary might have amplified and written more than was intended without Your Majesty's knowledge. Had the Emperor (he observed) written in his own hand, it would nave been a different thing. As to the second point, he was obliged to confess that his agents had really refused to state their reasons in writing; but it was because they were waiting until the Queen's advocates had given theirs. It was for the Queen's lawyers (he maintained) to produce their allegation first, before the English ambassadors sent in theirs, in proof of which he (the King) quoted certain points of Law, which he declared established that right and were unanswerable. I brought forward many arguments of sufficient weight as I thought, to convince the King, and suggested that if he were not satisfied with them, he might perhaps allow me to speak with the learned doctors of his Council, sure as I was that I could bring them round to my opinion. To this last proposition the King made no reply, but went on to say that it was clear to everyone that the Queen had neither justice nor right on her side, that no one had been found to plead her cause, which was one of the strongest arguments against her and for him; that most of the Italian doctors had written on his side, whereas, notwithstanding all Your Majesty's solicitations, not one had undertaken to defend the cause of the Queen; that he was well informed of Your Majesty's proceedings on this question of the marriage, which, he did not hesitate to say, were of very questionable legality, and might easily have been avoided; adding that I myself was not without my proportionate share of the blame. My answer was that I was not surprised that false reports had reached him from Italy, for in this country itself much was said concerning this second marriage, which, in my opinion, was quite untrue. He (the King) had repeatedly told me that all the theologians of his kingdom agreed with him, and that the kingdom greatly desired this second marriage, and yet that besides the prelates and divines of this country whom I had formerly named as opposed to the King's wishes in this respect, several more dissentient voices had since been heard in the universities, and that if he (the King) could only hear the hundredth part of what his people said about it he would infallibly change his mind. The King had once reproached me with sending to Your Majesty false reports concerning this matter; but neither I nor any individual was to blame for the reports he complained of as being current in Italy: it was public opinion that spoke so loud, and if the King would not heed it, the stocks and stones would cry out as in the days of king Midas. It was the common misfortune of princes that no reports reached them, save such as would be agreeable and in accordance with their wishes, but if he would have the opinion of the country honestly and conscientiously taken, he would find that, with the exception of the four or five persons immediately interested in the affair, this opinion was totally opposed to what he thought; that I had spoken with the author of those writings, on which the King laid so much stress, and that he had assured me that they had been written merely to please the King, against the writer's own convictions; but that in a few days the said Doctor would go to the King and make full confession on this head. That regarding the intrigues (practiques) to which the King alluded, if he would openly specify them I should be better able to refute the accusation. I did not know whether he (the King) credited me with sufficient talent for intrigue; all I could say was that had there been as little on his side as there was on ours, affairs would be in a much better state than they are now. The King replied by again repeating his former assertion, namely, that all the learned men in his kingdom agreed with him; those who did not, he said, were foolish, ignorant or obstinate. As to his not knowing what public opinion was he was not like Your Majesty, who had made a difficulty about even hearing his ambassadors personally; he was accessible to all and ready to listen to everyone, and seek for information. And lastly, that he would some day or other enter into particulars with me about the intrigues whereof he complained. Further remarks passed between us on this topic, too lengthy to be recorded here.
The King then went on to complain that Your Majesty, who, he says, is more indebted to him than a son to his father, should at the instigation of an aunt, who can neither harm nor serve you, be ready to forget all past kindnesses received from him (the King); and also that Your Majesty would not take the opportunity of hearing the liberal proposals, whereof the ambassadors were the bearers. He further observed that Your Majesty had by no means shewn such an interest in the affairs of the king of Denmark and of the Queen, your sister, to whom you were much more closely related, as you had in this case of the Queen, your aunt, for the furtherance of which you had spared no pains in the past, and, as it seemed, would spare none in the future; whereas in the case of the king and queen of Denmark, not only had you taken no measures to reinstate them in their dominions, but had absolutely left them without supplies, so that but for the help of Madame, the Archduchess, they would have had to endure great privations. Replied that, as I had stated at various times, there was no real cause of complaint against Your Majesty; if he (the King) wished to test Your Majesty's gratitude towards him, he should ask for such services as you could justly and rightly confer, not for those which you neither could nor ought to grant. As regards the king and queen of Denmark, it would be found upon inquiry that Your Majesty had done towards them all that they could claim; great had been the obstacles raised against the restoration of their kingdom, as great perhaps as those now raised against other more sacred enterprizes which Your Majesty had wished to set on foot, such as the one against the enemies of our Faith. That even if you had otherwise had the power of at once restoring the said king, your brother-in-law, to his kingdom, time and circumstances were not favourable, and the undertaking must have been delayed. The King, however, would not allow that the king and queen of Denmark had been rightly treated, though he seemed satisfied, as regards the restoration, which, he said, he did not himself desire. I added that Your Majesty had certainly much more cause to complain of him than he had of you, since he would not follow in the path of justice from which no man should deviate, and further wished to do you wrong by accusing you of tampering with and corrupting the judges, a thing which Your Majesty would not do for the wealth of two worlds put together, and that surely now that you were out of Italy all suspicion must necessarily cease. To which the King replied: that the justice to which you alluded was entirely in your own power, and that you held the Pope completely in subjection; but on my retorting that as proof of such subjection Your Majesty had reverently kissed the Pope's feet, and had always been submissive and obedient to the Apostolic See, he interrupted me by saying: "Not, indeed, at the time that the Pope made the Holy League with the French, for then the Emperor did not always obey His Holiness' commands." "However, this may be," continued the King, "though the Emperor is now absent [from Italy], his army is not, and the Pope once wrote to me, as I can shew you, that as long as the [Imperial] army remained in Italy he could not venture to give judgment in this cause. Besides which, I ask you, if the two cardinals (fn. 3) were without any legitimate cause declared open to suspicion (allegues pour suspetz) why should I not also, in similar case, challenge in my turn the judges named by the Emperor?"
A long debate was then carried on between us concerning the causes there were for suspecting the said cardinals, and also those of the Rotta. At last the King said that as he had taken such pains to shew the justice of his cause it must be clear to everyone that he knew what he was about, and that he was determined to follow up his suit before God and his conscience. He could not but regret at the same time that the last embassy, distinguished as it was, should have produced no fruit whatever, and he went on further to say that I had been partly the author and promoter of the embassy. Replied that as far as the rank of his ambassadors was concerned he had no occasion to repent, only of his not having sent people less open to suspicion of self-interest in the matter, who would-have made a more true and favourable report of things. As to rank and quality, theirs, I said, could not be too high, considering the prince to whom they were sent, and that Your Majesty had often sent here to England quite as noble and distinguished personages as his ambassadors, and in greater number. The King (I added) did me too great an honour in saying that I had partly promoted this embassy, as if he (the King) would have consented to be guided by my advice in such matters. My conscience, however, would not allow me to accept the compliment, for I was sure that the contrary was, the case. I then reminded him of what he had said to me when he first announced his determination to send this embassy, namely, that ever since the beginning of the discussion about the divorce he had wished to send one to Your Majesty; but that war had supervened and prevented it. The King remembered the circumstance perfectly well, and all else he had said on the occasion, as related in my despatch of January the 13th, and, therefore, was obliged somewhat to modify his former statement, declaring that he only meant that I had then considered it a good and desirable measure, and hoped that it might have a good effect. Replied that I had certainly never opposed the embassy, but had merely suggested that Monsgr. de Norfolk would have been a fitter personage to send. It was not for me, I said, to offer any opposition in this affair. As to the result to be expected from the embassy, I had not the least doubt that had the demands laid before Your Majesty been just and reasonable, as I had told him at my first audience, it would have been beneficial and satisfactory to both parties.
It was not difficult to see that the King was sorry and angry at having made such a mistake as to charge me, by way of argument, with having been the promoter of this embassy. I, myself, do not regret it; on the contrary, I am glad of what has happened, as it may perhaps stop him in future from such misrepresentations, and as it was the means of my getting afterwards from Monsgr. de Norfolk a most positive declaration that the Pope himself had been the author and promoter of the embassy and especially of the appointment of Dr. Stoclens (Stokesley).
Then, in pursuance of the Queen's orders and advice, I spoke to the King about the violent measures resorted to by his commissioners (commis) for obtaining the seals of the two universities of this kingdom, of which measures people complained greatly. I told him that it would have been far better for him to have sustained some great loss than have brought things to such a pass as this for several reasons, some of which I brought forward then and there, reserving the rest for another occasion. The King replied that he would withhold nothing, but would, on the contrary, speak the simple truth, as he always did to me. He declared upon his honour, and said he was quite ready to make the declaration in writing under his signature, that no violence whatever had been used; that out of 30 doctors who had been consulted at the principal universities 29 had agreed with him, and that though the 30th, who differed from the rest, was held to be the most learned of them all, still he was very old and somewhat given to intemperance (et ung peu subjectz au vin). That there were also apart from these 30, seven dissentient voices, but they were not men of any reputation for learning. All the rest the King entirely denied, to which statement my only reply was that I was not at all surprised that false reports reached him from Italy and from elsewhere, since he was so misinformed as to what took place in his own kingdom. I then entered into a detailed account of various matters and things—too long to be related here—in which he (the King) had been notoriously deceived, whereof I have written to apprize Messire Mai, that he may in the event of their trying to make their case good at Rome, by the number of votes obtained at the said universities [of Oxford and Cam- bridge] know what he is to answer, and I have likewise forwarded to him, by express messenger, who left yesterday, all the information I could gather on these points, as well as the new books published on behalf of the Queen.
After this conversation, the King, taking me by the hand, asked what other news I had of you from Italy. Told him of your triumphal entry into Mantua, and of the arrival of the Count Palatine there. He interrupted me and asked whether the Palatine was count Frederique (Frederic) whom he praised beyond measure, speaking for some time of his own friendship and regard for him. Told him also that I had learnt from the Venetian ambassador that Your Majesty had given the sister of the duke of Calabria in marriage to the duke of Mantua, with a very rich dower, at which he (the King) seemed much pleased. He then said that he considered the siege of Florence as raised, and that the Pope was in great difficulties (en grosse perplexite), and had pledged in Venice (fn. 4) all the jewels he had, in order to raise money for the equipment of the Imperial army, and that even with this he would hardly be able to raise a sufficient sum. The King also praised the Florentines much for their constancy and courage during the siege; said it was a wicked and damnable enterprize for the Pope to have undertaken, and that Your Majesty should not have assisted him therein, whatever I might say of the promises by which you were bound. Your Majesty, he had no doubt, would now regret the part taken in that business, not so much indeed for the failure of the enterprize, but on account of the great sufferings of the Florentines during the siege.
The King next questioned me concerning Germany. I told him without hesitation that the courier who had just passed through that country on his way to England reported that in every place where he had been universal joy was felt at your approaching visit; that Lent was being strictly observed, and that no one shewed Lutheran tendencies, at which the King seemed greatly surprised. He pondered over this a little, and then asked me: "Who do you think will be king of the Romans?" Answered that I had received no information on that score, and could not venture to express an opinion on so important a subject, (fn. 5) but that from his frequent intercourse with Germany, his thorough knowledge of that country, and of the inclinations and nature of the electors, as well as of the qualities and parts required for that high office, and likewise because similar affairs had once gone through his own hands, I considered him better able to calculate on whom the election would ultimately fall. His reply was that what I said was very true; the emperor Maximilian (whom may God forgive) had once wished to confer this dignity upon him, and the greater part of the electors had agreed and pledged their word to it, though they had afterwards requested to be released from their pledge, when, after the death of Maximilian, they were called upon to give their votes either to Your Majesty or the king of France, when but for his aid the king of that country would certainly have carried off the election. He said he had formerly much intercourse and correspondence with Germany, but that he had quite discontinued it of late, and did not even read half the letters that came from those parts.
He then said that he was much surprised at the way in which Your Majesty's commissioners for one trifling cause or another were continually delaying the restitution of the children of France. To which I readily replied, that if those who had informed the King of the delay had also stated whence it arose (ou tenoyt la maladie) the King would not have blamed the Imperial commissioners. By saying which I really think that I touched the sore point, for he said to me: "Perhaps you think and mean to say that the real cause of the delay is that the money is not yet ready. That may be the case, but the French will never own it."
I ended by asking the King to instruct Monsgr. [the bishop of London] to undertake the settlement of the dispute concerning Crieveceur (Crevecœur) between the king of France and Monsgr. de Bevres according to the letter of the treaty of Cambray, which he consented to do, and sent at once for Monsgr. of London, who had, however, already left the Court. The king of France has also sent a councillor from Paris on this very business, but up to the present time it seems as if the said councillor had come purposely to keep the affair out of sight or delay its conclusion till after the restitution of the children, for he has never said a word about it.
After the above conversation and much more, which I omit to avoid tediousness, it being now time for vespers, I asked for leave to withdraw, which was graciously granted. No sooner, however, had I left the room than the King communicated to Monsgr. de Norfolk part of what I had said to him, for the latter overtook me, made me enter his room, and then much agitated in manner, and indeed quite the reverse of the King—who on this occasion had been more composed and temperate than the last time I saw him—began to speak to me with great vehemence, saying: "The Emperor has now refused to listen to the most advantageous proposals that were ever made to him. He must not expect the same offers to be made again when he wants them; the more powerful the Emperor becomes the more he will stand in need of friends. He should besides consider the great want which his brother, the king of Hungary, has of the friendship and aid of all the Christian princes. The Emperor's persistence in having the Pope as judge of this trial is only caused by his belief that a sentence will be given at Rome in accordance with his wishes; but before six years have passed neither the Pope nor the greater part of Italy will be at the Emperor's devotion, and many strange things may have come to pass (l'on verroit plusieurs chores)." The Duke, no doubt, said "six years" merely as a "façon de parler," for he evidently does not believe that the realization of his prognostic is so far distant. Then he added, rather angrily, that it would be vain for the Emperor to attempt to put any pressure on or assert authority over this king or country, for they would certainly not give way (point le pied). The Duke then asked me point blank: "Should the King, after having thoroughly proved the righteousness of his cause, and obtained the sanction of the ecclesiastics and of the Anglican Church, marry this woman (fn. 6) what will the Emperor do? will he make war upon us?" If so, I hope we shall defend ourselves well.
The Duke likewise made it a ground of complaint that Your Majesty had said that you would certainly employ all the resources you had in this world to support the Queen's cause.
After replying to all and every one of the above points, I said to the Duke, in substance, that the words to which he alluded had never come out of Your Majesty's lips, as far as I (Chapuys) was aware; he (the Duke) knew quite as well as myself that all the requests of Your Majesty had been made in the most moderate and friendly terms, and that I was very far from thinking that Your Majesty would ever use force or assume authority, and I was also quite certain that you had no intention of making war. I could not imagine that the King would ever give due cause for it, and even in the event of this second marriage taking place there would be no need for any foreign prince to declare war against England, as the Duke must know that if the King divorced his Queen and took another wife there would soon be mortal strife among his own subjects. As to the troubles and revolutions to which the Duke alluded as likely to take place in Italy, Your Majesty had taken no measures involving such a change; but that should it come to pass, neither the Italians themselves, nor those who stirred them on to revolt, would be the gainers by it any more than in past times, and that I should think the experience of the past must have taught them to be more guarded, and not listen to every idle talker. I knew many (I continued) who were at the bottom of these intrigues, and promoted discord more for their own individual profit than, from any other cause, and that I did not say more then, but would unravel the mystery at a future time. My allusion had regard to Jehan Jocquin, of whom I will speak hereafter, though I considered it unadvisable then to mention his name to the Duke.
Notwithstanding this altercation I again begged the Duke to continue his endeavours for the maintenance of the friendship between Your Majesty and his master, and likewise to ask him in what way he thought Your Majesty could have shewn a more friendly or upright spirit than he had done. The Duke replied that as to the first point, the maintenance of friendship he had always been most anxious to forward it, hut that somehow it seemed to him now that Your Majesty did not respond to the wish. As to what Your Majesty could have done on the present occasion to please his master, the King, and lead the way to an enduring friendship, he had certainly out of his great zeal for your service ventured to give his opinion and advice on Your Majesty's affairs; but that for the future, seeing how things were going on, and that Your Majesty had such good counsel at home, he would never again undertake to do so. After which the Duke shewed me a letter from Jehan Jocquin, who, he said, was to arrive the following day. This the Duke did with a certain air of mystery and warning, as if he wished to make me understand that if we did not please him in this affair he would listen to what that ambassador had to say in his master's name.
Continued in this way talking for some time on various subjects, the Duke returning to the point, and saying to me more than once: "I would not for ten thousand crowns have taken charge of this embassy, as I thought at the time of doing." Replied that he ought to wish exactly the opposite, for that had he gone his opinion would have had more weight with Your Majesty, and he himself would have seen more clearly the path to justice, in which he should try to keep the King, his master, since there was no longer during Your Majesty's absence from Italy any fear of the judges being afraid of giving their decision, and that as the Pope desired to consult with Dr. Stocler (Stokesley), he (the Duke) would do well to send him to His Holiness. He assured me that nothing should be omitted which could further justice in this cause, and I am given to understand that an express messenger has been dispatched ordering Dr. Stocler (Stokesley) to proceed at once to the Pope.
The Princess having expressed a wish to see me, and I myself being anxious to pay my respects to her, I begged the Duke to let me know whether the King would approve of the visit. The Duke was doubtful as to this; but said he would write and consult the King, who, being asked about it, replied that as he was coming shortly to London (fn. 7) I had better wait a few days. Indeed, the Duke says that the King will he here this week for the purpose of proroguing Parliament and their Estates General (fn. 8) till the month of September, and that he will be able then to enter into further explanations of his views with me. On leaving the Duke accompanied me much further than is his wont.
Neither the King nor Mr. de Norfolk made the least mention of the brief which has been obtained, nor of the summons (citation) made [at Rome] to the English ambassadors personally. As to their having been allowed to quit without the usual civilities and ceremonies, and their not having been visited or accompanied for any length of time when they took leave, the King has been the very first to excuse this want of etiquette, on the ground that Your Majesty was much pressed with business of all kinds.
I have not thought it expedient to go to the Queen just now, but have acquainted her by letters and in other ways of everything that is done or said respecting her cause, at which she is much comforted, and, certainly, she greatly needs consolation. She had intended writing to Your Majesty, but has not yet been able to find the opportunity.
On my way back, on Easter Tuesday, I met Jehan Jocquin, who said he had anticipated his visit to Court by one day, in the hope of meeting me there and speaking about this Crieveceur (fn. 9) business. He walked on a little with me, and shewed me a supplement (addition), which he said was to be made to the deed of release (decharge) drawn up by this king in favour of Your Majesty. He also said that he was the authority for the Italian news which the King had communicated to me at our last interview. He should (he said) remain at Court till after the Festival of St. George, but the fact is that he only stayed 24 hours then and returned the day after. Exclusive of this last time, Jocquin has been twice at Court since the news came of the unfavourable answer given by Your Majesty to the English ambassadors. He has each time stayed three or four days, and had long interviews with the King and Mr. de Norfolk. I have been told that on one of these occasions some one overheard the Duke say to the ambassador: "I beg you to spare me any reference to matters relating to war, or what may lead thereto, for we have already had too much of it." I cannot say for certain what takes Jocquin to Court now; the ostensible reason for his first visit was this business of Crevecoeur, and, for the second, to obtain, as he said, the addition to the deed of release. This last time he must have brought certain papers from the Paris doctors concerning the affair of the marriage.
I cannot help thinking that Jehan Jocquin will make all the mischief he can. Ever since his arrival here he has been abusing admiral Andrea Doria, and persuading the Genoese merchants that Genoa will never recover her former prosperity until she is fairly under French protection, and telling the Florentine ambassadors openly they may be quite sure his master only delayed the payment of the ransom until the siege of Florence should be raised. Further, that it was the Pope who had induced Your Majesty to go to Italy, and that now he was served right, for you had made your peace with the duke of Ferrara and left him (the Pope) in the lurch. He does not approve at all of the governors of towns in the Milanese (capitaines des places) having taken the oath of allegiance to Your Majesty on the re-investiture of the Duchy. He has been saying continually that on the return of the hostages to France some surprising events (de grans miracles) would take place, and that he hoped he should not die until he was in full possession of the title of count, and the property which the King, his master, had promised him in the kingdom of Naples. Many other similar expressions have escaped him (Jocquin) that shew the ill-will he bears us, but, however able to work miracles, he will find it difficult to acquire in this country any reputation for steadiness and discretion; and with the single exception of the pensioners of the King, his master, he is looked upon here with great disfavour, in spite of the many attentions (familiarites et bonnes chieres) which the King showers upon him. Hears that he has just obtained permission from the King to buy 4,000 oxen and send them into France, at which the whole city greatly murmurs.
Respecting the Grand Equerry, about whom Your Majesty wrote to me, I can only say that he seems favourably disposed, but I have had no information from him except that recorded in my despatch of the 24th of February, wherein I explained what will be my line of conduct towards him in carrying out Your Majesty's instructions. I met him (the Grand Equerry) once at Court, where he shewed me great attention, and afterwards sent me some venison. He afterwards came to see me at my lodgings, but there were too many people present for any private conversation, and therefore he promised to call again, and went away. Next day he came again, though much too late, for I had gone out, and therefore we have not met since the said 24th of February. As to the Dean, he has never spoken to me; and. as I hear from the Queen, he is acting in total opposition to his engagements.
To-day, the King and Mr. de Norfolk have sent me an English student from Paris, who came over four days ago to report on the progress of the Sieur de Langeais' doings at the Paris University respecting the marriage question, and who is to return thither to urge on the prosecution of the affair. The Englishman came purposely to say on the part of the King and Duke that I was quite misinformed as to the quality of those doctors who advocate the divorce at the Paris University; but, being much pressed by me to speak upon his conscience, he deprecated those doctors much more than I had done to Mr. de Norfolk, and strongly commended the doctrine of those who hold for the Queen.
The Cardinal (Wolsey) set out for his bishopric 12 days ago with a train of more than 120 horses. (fn. 10) He has sent his physician to me on three different occasions to vindicate his past conduct and to offer his services to Your Majesty, declaring that though no longer possessing any power, yet knowing so thoroughly as he does the nature of men and the condition of things in this country, he thought his advice might be of use. He begged me to intercede that he might be restored to Your Majesty's favour and grace, so that every one might see here that you bore him no ill-will. I have promised to write about it, but suggested at the same time that the best thing for him to do is to give some proof, whenever the opportunity offers, that he really does feel that desire for service which, according to his physician, he so strongly professes. It can do no harm to temporize with him for a while and see how he behaves and what he will say or do, which can easily be done without his enemies getting wind of it. He has still great hope of being taken into favour again. It was thought here at one time that he would have been murdered by the people of his diocese, and that in spite of his great reputation he was quite afraid of going thither; but it appears on the contrary that he was very well received at York. He is not at all sorry for Mr. de Vulchier's (Wiltshire's) failure, but very much so that he is returning home so soon.
Since the Princess was separated from the Queen the latter has had no household of her own, being waited upon by the King's own attendants; now she has been provided with a separate establishment and a large retinue of officials and servants, Cannot guess why such favour should be granted just at this juncture, but as she is not allowed to receive visitors it may be that they intend watching her more closely than before, or that they think by such gentle means to induce her to consent to some measure which they desire.
Thanks the Emperor for his kindness, &c.—London, 23rd April 1530.
Signed: "Eustace Chapuys."
Addressed: "To the Emperor."
Indorsed: "From the ambassador in England. 23rd April."
French. Holograph partly in cipher, pp. 13.
23 April.291. The Same to Mr. de Granvelle.
K. u. K. ,Haus-
Wien. Rep.P.Fasc.,
c. 226, No. 23.
Cannot in any way adequately thank him for the kind and cordial letters which, in spite of the mass of affairs pressing upon him, he (Granvelle) has been so good as to write to him, as well as for the many friendly services he has rendered him, for which he must ever remain his debtor and say: cum omnia fecero adhuc servum inutilem oportet me profiteri, necessumque esse me ingratum et vivere et mori. And as regards any delay in answering letters from England, the Emperor has now amply repaid his arrears to the Queen by this last, which has quite revived her. Though she knows very well that the Emperor from inclination, kindness of heart and duty, is bent on protecting her, she, nevertheless, feels herself in no small degree indebted to those about him who have so cordially worked in her behalf. The Queen greatly regrets that she has not yet written to him (Granvelle) herself, nor is she able to do so at this moment on account of the festivals now being celebrated, and also of the despatches she has been obliged to prepare for Rome, but she will not fail to do so at the very first opportunity. Monseigneur has indeed paid his debt with usury (cum amore, sed etiam usuras usurarum); when he (Chapuys) is told of the satisfaction which his proceedings here at this court have given at home, he cannot be too thankful for this piece of flattering kindness which can be more easily accepted than that with which he was served at Toledo and Barcelona. (fn. 11)
"Sed ad divertendam materiam." Monseigneur may perhaps ask whether he (Chapuys) has really ventured to say so much to the King now and on former occasions. Can only answer as a man did once to his father confessor, "Yes, Father," (fn. 12) and a good many things more which he can never communicate, as there would not be time to relate them or to unravel such a Penelope's web as this. Speaks to the King just according to the mood in which he finds him. Were he (Granvelle) behind the curtains (derriere du tappis) he would inevitably exclaim Novi, Novi, istos polippos. Has spared him the account of the dispute between the King and himself as to whether the King or the Queen should be first heard, not wishing to clog with a fifth wheel the heavily laden chariots of his innumerable and highly important avocations. (fn. 13)
The other day the King said (though not precisely in these words) that the clemency shewn by the Emperor to the duke of Milan, and his consent to make terms with Florence, looked very much like the abstinence of the fox of the fable who relinquished what he could not grasp, for had it not been for the reasons and arguments he (Chapuys) adduced, which are notorious enough, the King would have stuck to his erroneous opinions (içelle heresie).Forgot to write to the Emperor that the King makes some difficulty about the king of Hungary being elected king of the Romans and would prefer the election to fall upon a prince of the House of Bavaria; also that one of the reasons which the King has for giving up his German intrigues is that he may not appear to favour the Lutherans.
Is greatly delighted to hear that Monsgr. de Savoie and Madame have so fully and honestly done their duty to the Emperor and thus afforded him an opportunity for displaying his great magnanimity and generosity. Indeed he (Chapuys) thinks that should the Emperor, wish to bestow landed property on some prince, it cannot be more wisely bestowed than on the Duke for many a reason, which he (Granvelle) will understand much better than himself. Thanks him (Granvelle) very much for his good offices and commendation of his person to the said Duke and his suite (compagnie). As to the English ambassadors he (Chapuys) does not think there was proper opportunity for doing the same, as it seems that they did not deliver either to him (Granvelle) or to others [among the councillors] the letters they had from this King. Is, therefore, glad that he was thus spared the trouble of listening to them, for in reality it was not worth it, and certainly with the exception of the parties chiefly concerned in this cause, there would have been a general feeling of satisfaction if the English ambassadors had been less favourably received than they were. (fn. 14)
Respecting the intentions of the French there can be no doubt that they are as bad as possible. He (Granvelle) understands their malady better than any physician in the world, vidi et ego illorum totium; sit honos urinantibus. What he (Chapuys) is now writing to the Emperor will bear witness to this, at least in part, for to write all would fill a whole book (il faudroit faire une bible), and still leave a good debt behind and say: de longissimo sermone malicia longior.
This King has been informed that the Imperial commissioners have objected to receive the crowns (escus) of the ransom by weight in a lump as regulated by the treaty of Cambray, according to which (the French say) it is easy to calculate at once how many marks 1,000 crs. ought to weigh, and that the said commissioners would choose only the heaviest, insisting that no single crown should be below a certain weight. Spoke of this to Jehan Jocquin, who denied having made such a report, though he implied that the article in the treaty touching the weights and alloy of the crowns had been much too strictly (fn. 15) worded, and that neither the Emperor nor his commissioners ought to have raised difficulties or scruples in an affair of this kind. That however well persuaded they (the French) might be of their own right, after consulting accountants and bankers thereupon, they had to submit and accept the arrangement, though by this mode of payment the loss to them amounted to four per cent. He then made some rather irrelevant remarks about some protest or other of his master's before he left Spain of not observing the treaty, This naturally led to some altercation, and there was a good deal of tilting (fn. 16) between us, though without irritation or excitement. Jehan Jocquin said also that Octavian (Ottavio) Grimaldo, former general of Milan, had written word that the Vayvod had assembled an army, and that seeing that Vienna was entirely unprotected thought of taking possession of it, and that the Turks had also assembled an army to invade Sicily. Cannot tell whether the news is correct or not, but Jocquin seemed remarkably glad to hear it.
Leaves his own personal affairs and the payment of his salary entirely in Granvelle's hands; has no doubt that infinite trouble is taken about them; but there are two great difficulties to be overcome: one is that the money assigned him has already been spent, and the other that it will be exceedingly difficult for him to recover it. Madame writes that she will do her best, so does Mr. de Tholowze (Thoulouse), but the latter observes that he is afraid the finances [of the Low Countries] are very low just now. Regrets so much not to have means of his own or some fixed salary on which he can depend without having to importune his master (le maystre) so frequently. Feels more distress at the constant trouble he is giving him (Granvelle) than at the straits to which he is himself reduced; still as he (Granvelle) is the only person on whom he can rely, he (Chapuys) entreats him to bear kindly with his frequent applications.
With regard to the second proposal (des secondes pieces),he would wish, as Granvelle is so good as to think of it, that the benefice was in the Low Countries. He (Chapuys) would then look out for that which has the best preferment in its gift. He is expecting the arrival of a young man, a good Greek and Latin scholar, who wishes to enter the Church, and if he should turn out as he (Chapuys) anticipates, he would like the assignment to be drawn out in his name; will shortly advise Granvelle further upon this matter.
Has delayed writing for some days, from want both of matter and messengers, and also from fear of being too troublesome; nor could be well write without receiving an answer to his preceding despatches, when the first courier came, for the letters he brought referred to others which a second messenger was to bring, and that one arrived during the Holy Week, and thus a further delay was caused, for all which he begs to be excused.—London, 23rd April 1530.
Begs to apologize to the Emperor and to him (Granvelle), for his prolixity on this occasion, which he promises to avoid in future.
Signed; "Eustace Chapuys."
French. Holograph. pp. 5.
24 April.292. Martin de Salinas to the King of Bohemia and Hungary.
M. Re. Ac. d. Hist.,
To-day, Sunday, after dinner, the Emperor left Valero (?) to come to Trent. Ever since entering His Highness' territory there have been incessant rains which have refreshed the atmosphere, and made the fields look very green. His Majesty made his entry, accompanied by the Papal Legate and the cardinal of Trent, though with a very poor attendance of courtiers, owing to the very rough weather. He (the Emperor) had intended leaving behind the whole of the men-at-arms; but when close to the town he changed his mind, and made three companies follow him.
Though the Emperor had formed his plans about the distribution of his forces, his Highness' letters from Prague, and the happy news conveyed in them, have led him to make a different arrangement. The whole of the men-at-arms, five companies of 300 men each, are to be sent forward by way of Augusta (Augsburg), that they may be quartered wherever it is most convenient, and nearest to the spot fixed for the interview. They may from thence march in the direction required. They are to leave on Tuesday next, a few hours before the Emperor's departure, and will be paid to the day. As to the Germans, it is contemplated to pay and dismiss them. The Spaniards are not so numerous or well appointed as might be wished. For this reason the Emperor purposes leaving them at Trent, or in its immediate neighbourhood, until the interview takes place, when it will be decided what is to be done with them, for, as the Emperor says, they are in so small a number that if His Highness does not absolutely want them they had better remain behind until those from Florence and the Italians join them as agreed; for it would hardly seem reputable for His Majesty to go to his brother's assistance with a mere handful of men.
The Emperor intended leaving Trent on Tuesday, but both the Cardinal (Gattinara) and he (Salinas), having begged him to suspend his journey till Thursday, to give time for His Highness to arrive—the distance being greater, the roads not so good, and the train being followed by a number of women—the Emperor has consented to do so. He will leave on Wednesday, and on the preceding day will join in a sport that has been prepared for him.—Trent, 24th April 1530.
Addressed: "To the King, my Lord."
Spanish. Original draft. p. 1.
26 April.293. The Same to the Same.
M. Re. Ac. d. Hist.,
c. 71,f. 243 vo.
Wrote on Sunday last advising the Emperor's determination. This has changed since in consequence of His Highness' letters, and of those lately received from the governors (Regimiento) of Ispruc (Innsbruck). It is now agreed that the Spanish hackbutiers shall be dismissed. Their number, already very small, was likely to diminish the very moment the expedition to Hungary was announced; besides which they have no experience of war (no estan instrutos en cosas de guerra).Had they been sent on the people of those countries would have formed a bad idea of the Emperor's power, since he could not dispose of a more efficient set of men to assist his own brother against the Turk. To leave them behind, as the Emperor proposed, until a larger force was actually collected, would have been equally dangerous, for their want of discipline is well known, and they would have ravaged the land and harmed the country people, as they had already begun to do on their passage. For these reasons and others, which it would take too long to relate, the "Regimiento" of Ispruc (Innsbruck) advised the immediate dismissal of the Spanish hackbutiers, and the Emperor, after consulting his Council thereupon, has actually paid up and dismissed the whole force. He has, however, written to the marquis del Gasto (Vasto) to hold in readiness 2,000 or 3,000 Italian hackbutiers, well trained to war, with their corresponding officers, in case His Highness should want them.
The Emperor's departure is definitively fixed for Thursday; on Saturday he will sleep at Brizene (Brixen) where he may, perhaps, stop the whole of Sunday for the sake of Don Jorge [de Austria ?] At any rate, on Tuesday or Wednesday, at the latest, he will be at Ispruc (Innsbruck). To-morrow he intends going to a bear hunt which the Cardinal has prepared for him, and next day he will depart.—Trent, 26th April 1530, at night.
Addressed: "To the King, my Lord."
Spanish. Original draft. p. 1.
29 April.294. Rodrigo Niño to the Emperor.
S.E.L. 1,308, f. 37.
B. M. Add. 28,580,
f. 386.
Don Miguel de Velasco arrived here on the 24th inst. with the Emperor's letters of the 17th. As Prothonotary Caracciolo, his colleague, was already in Venice, both called on the Doge (Andrea Gritti) and reported the substance of the Imperial despatches.
Wrote on the 15th inst., sending intelligence about the king of England and our conversation with the Doge. After that, on the 19th, we again spoke in the College-hall, as if coming from ourselves, when all the senators and the Doge himself agreed that the application of the King was a most preposterous one, and decided not to trouble themselves (empacharse) about it, or interfere in the business by allowing the case to be discussed at the university of Padua.
Mentioned likewise in the College-hall the Bagaratto (fn. 17) affair, and that of the prior of Barletta (Martinengo). About the former no hope was given of a favourable settlement for the claimant. The latter has been referred to Cesare Fragoso, and an answer is hourly expected. The claims of Nicolas Trapolino are still unsettled.
The 5,000 gold crowns have actually been deposited in the Mont de Pieté at Padua.
The prothonotary left for Milan on the 26th.
All the ambassadors residing here at Venice—of the Pope, king of France, England, Milan, Florence, Ferrara, Mantua, &c.—are very much discontented at the unusual manner in which they are treated. Not only have they taken from us the houses we used to have rent free, with furniture, gondolas, &c., but they make us pay taxes (dacios) on everything we eat, a most unusual thing, considering that hitherto we were exempt from all taxes, and that in the time of the Catholic sovereigns [Ferdinand and Isabella] the Spanish ambassadors were in the enjoyment of privileges now taken from them, and even got an allowance of 100 ducats per month for their table. His colleagues, without exception, have written to their respective courts about this, and have determined not to visit the Doge on grand occasions. Wishes to know whether he is to join them, or not, in this public disapproval of the Signory's acts, since he happens to be the first Imperial ambassador in Venice who has been subjected to the payment of taxes.
Letters have come from Constantinople, of the 28th of March, in confirmation of those of the 8th, which the Doge communicated to him (Niño) the other day. Private ones from the same city, as well as from other parts of Turkey, agree on one point, namely, that Solyman is still making pre-parations, though not very active or on a great scale. Last Wednesday, an agent of the community of Pagsa (fn. 18) who resides here came to him to say that by order of the Turk certain vessels of war (fustas) were being built at the castle of Obrovazo (sic). not far from Ragusa, with the intention, as his correspondent says, of molesting the inhabitants of that town. The same letter says that a few days since 500 Turks made their appearance in those parts, and that they are infesting the villages which the king of Hungary possesses in that province.
An ambassador from Austria is much wanted here. There are many questions of arbitrage, &c. pending with this Signory, which he (Niño) cannot discuss, being, as he is, unacquainted with their origin.—Venice, 29th April 1530.
Signed; "Rodrigo Niño."
Spanish. Original. pp. 2.
— April.295. Luigi Alamanni to the Dieci (?) of Florence.
S.E. L. 850, f. 16.
B. M. Add. 28,580,
f. 65.
Has this very morning had letters, of the 18th inst., from the consul at Lyons and from the Emperor's court, as well as from Giuliano Bonacorsi, (fn. 19) of the 10th. All agree that when the bills for 30,000 crs., drawn by Florentine bankers on the king of France, were about to be accepted and paid, the Pope's nuncio, a bishop of Como, of the Triulzi family, having got scent of the transaction, called on the King and on his chancellor, complaining that any assistance given to our Republic at this time would be equal to an infraction of the treaty of Cambray. The King moreover said to the Florentine ambassador (fn. 20) and to Giuliano Bonacorsi: "For God's sake do not press me any more on that particular subject, until I recover my sons, who are now at Victoria together with the Queen (Eleanor) and the Imperial treasurer. I have already sent thither the greater part of the ransom money, and hope that by the end of this month, at the latest, the restitution will be made. Let it be accomplished, and I will help you afterwards." Francis' chancellor, and the rest of his ministers, said the same, not without expatiating at large on the poverty of the kingdom, which, they said, had been drained of all its money.
Such is the substance of the letter received from the Florentine consul at Lyons, but I must observe that our countrymen in France have also had letters from Francesco Bardi, our consul in England, announcing that the Florentine merchants in London had had a meeting and agreed to subscribe 1,060 crs. towards the expenses of the siege, which sum, added to the 4.000 crs. previously collected, is already in Lyons, at the disposal of the Signory. But the most important service rendered on this occasion by Francesco Bardi is his interview with the king [of England] and the encouragement he received from him. He says that after a long discourse on the affairs of Florence, to which he listened with as much attention and pleasure as if he himself had been a native of our city, the King began to praise the courage and determination of our countrymen, to inveigh against the Pope and the Emperor, uttering blasphemous expressions of both, and shewing the great enmity he bore to the one and to the other. And it is not to be wondered at, for the brother of the Dame (so does Francesco Bardi always call her) having gone to Rome in the King's name, to promote the divorce so many times promised to him by the Pope, was so badly received, and got such an answer from him, that he had to go back to England suddenly. No words can describe the indignation of the English [at receiving such a rebuke]. Day and night nothing is thought of in that island save arranging matters in such a way that the English may not be obliged in future to apply to Rome for the bestowal of ecclesiastical benefices and other similar matters. Bardi further relates that, having commended our poor city to the King's attention, the King answered: "Were it not for my wish that the sons of France should be as soon as possible restored to their father, there is nothing I should like so much as to help so just a cause as yours against such wicked princes as the Pope and the Emperor. But as soon as the restitution takes place I shall take care to prove what I say."
The consul adds that if a person of character and reputation should now be sent to England with sufficient power to sign obligations to the amount of 40,000 crs., there can be no doubt that this sum, or perhaps a larger one, might be obtained, as the King is so favourably disposed that he would himself lend the whole or the greater part of the money. I consider this very feasible, and the expedient ought to be tried at once, notwithstanding the great respect which the king of England seems to have for the sons of France; because this kingdom, being so far away from the rest of Europe, and there being no Papal nuncio at present in it, if a Florentine should go as ambassador, he might at once commence negociations for the loan before anyone was aware of it. In the meantime, either the present peace might be accidentally broken, or else, the sons of France being restored to their father, the king of England would be at liberty to help our Republic at once.
With regard to news, I have little to communicate, save that the whole of the Imperial fleet, 29 galleys in all, including those of Andrea Doria and the French, is about to sail for Catalonia in two or three days. Once at sea, it is to be hoped that the passage to Pisa will be free, and the other projects in contemplation will thereby be rendered more easy. If so, my presence at this port will no longer be required, unless the fleet returns suddenly from Spain, which is not likely, for, as Doria himself told me the other day, he expects to be back in May; and, if so, whatever may be my destination, I can easily return to my post if required.
I have not yet received an answer from Roberto de' Albizi or from Paolo Guadagni, (fn. 21) respecting the bills of exchange I enclosed to them. I will wait, and when the money is paid it shall be duly remitted to Pisa. (fn. 22)
Italian. Contemporary copy. pp.7. (fn. 23)


1 "Sur ces deux pointz yl sembla quil se vousisse mettre ung peu au chans (champs?) veuilliant que en ce ses ambassadeurs fussent ausy bien ou mieux de croyre que les lettres de votre maieste."
2 "Et apres avoer quelque peu alterque en çecy, estant vaincu de rayson et honnestete, yl trouva ung echappatoyre quant au premier, du quel luy aves (avois) use ung bien peu avant en autre propos."
3 Wolsey and Campeggio.
4 "Et quil avait mande tout autant de bagues quil avoit a Venise pour recouvrer argent et fournir aux soudards."
5 "Et [que] mon sens ne discours ne vouloit si hault."
6 "Si le Roy apree sestre mis en tout debuoer en justiffiant si clerement son affere vouloit par lautorite des [ecclesiastiques] et eglise anglicane esposer ceste femme, si penseriez leur faire guerre."
7 "La reponse du Roy fust que pour ce quil se mouvoit à Loudres que eusse patience pour quelques jours."
8 "Pour fere la prolongation de leurs estatz et parlement."
9 Crevecceur.
10 "En train de plus de vi xx. chevaux."
11 "Mays la gaudisserie quant vous dittes de contentemant que lon a hen de ma negociation n'est pas de compte, cest un tourd de gentillesse, et toutesfoys yl est plus ayse a boyre (sic) et souffrir que ceux que lon me faysoit a Tollede et a Barcellonne."
12 "Padre, ouy."
13 "The copy has: "Je [ne] vous ay cuyde fere le discours de la dispute que heusmes sur larticle qui debuoit premier exhiber ses escrits, ou le Roy ou la Royne, pour [non] mettre la cinquiesme roue au charriotz de vous innumerables et invariables negoces." The two negations between brackets have been added to the passage for I consider them to have been involuntarily omitted by Chapuys or by the transcriber of this letter.
14 "Vous merciant bien humblement de loffice quil vous a pleu fere pour moy envers luy et la compagnie. Envers nous ambassadeurs je pense bien que navez heu lopportunite de ce fere, puys que [a] ce quil me semble, yl ne vouz presentarent (sic) ne aux autres les lettresque le Roy escrivoit. Et vous asseure que seray joyeux quayes espargnie cest poynne, cart yl ne le valloint pas; excepte ccux a qui principallemant touche l'affere, toute la reste heust este mervellieusemant jouyeuse que les eussiez traictez beaucoupt pirement.
15 "Que lon avoit par tropt subtillement couche larticle du poix et alloy des escus."
16 "Sur cella nous passames quelque petite carriere et gracieuse."
17 Elsewhere written Bagherotto. No. 281, p. 490.
18 Evidently a mistake for Ragusa.
19 Giuliano Buonacorsi, a Florentine merchant, who according to Benedetto Varchi, Storia Fiorentina, p. 358, procured, along with the writer of this letter, and with Thomasso Sestini and Ruberto degli Albizi the payment of the "Cedole del Consolato," and recovered from Francis 20,000 ducats which he owed to the Republic.
20 Baldassare Carducci, who, having been dismissed by Francis, died in 1530.
21 Two individuals of this name are mentioned by Varchi, namely Oliviero and Philippo Guadagni, pp, 153, 180, and 329. As to Ruberto degli, or de' Albizi, he also has already been alluded to at p. 522. Though slightly differing from No. 237, this letter of Luigi Alamani to the Dieci must be one and the same.
22 It was Giovampagolo, or Giovan Paolo Orsino, sou of Renzo, who, according to Varchi (p. 358), took the money to Pisa.
23 The letter has no date, but was probably written at Genoa. Two copies of it are at Simancas, one sent by Muxetula on the 16th of May, the other by Cardinal d'Osma on the 26th.