July 1530, 6-15


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'Spain: July 1530, 6-15', Calendar of State Papers, Spain, Volume 4 Part 1: Henry VIII, 1529-1530 (1879), pp. 623-642. URL: Date accessed: 17 April 2014. Add to my bookshelf


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July 1530, 6-15

6 July.371. The Abbot of Llor to Secretary Covos.
S. E. Rom. L.851,
ff. 68-9.
B M Add 28,580,
f. 220.
Received on the 3rd inst. his Lordship's letter, dated Augsburg, the 27th June, together with its enclosure for cardinal Egidio, (fn. 1) his master.
In the English business the Cardinal is sure to obey the dictates of his conscience and attend fully to the Imperial service. Having received a mandate from His Holiness to look into this affair and give his opinion, the Cardinal told him that the case was clear and without any doubt in favour of the Queen. His Holiness told the Cardinal to keep the matter secret and not tell anyone, but as a true servant of the Emperor he has through him (the Abbot) communicated the whole to the Imperial ambassador (Mai).
He can further say that a few days ago the English ambassador called upon the Cardinal and told him that the king of England (who by the way seems to take more at heart this affair of the divorce than the welfare of his kingdom), knowing his virtues and learning and his great reputation among the people, wished very much to have his opinion in writing on this particular case. The Cardinal answered: that both in authority and learning he considered himself inferior to all his colleagues. Should he, however, be called upon to give his opinion, he would vote in the cause according to his conscience. The king of England was no doubt a great monarch and remunerated munificently those who served him, but that for him (the Cardinal) it was enough that the King had a good opinion of him, better perhaps than he deserved, that was ample remuneration for his trouble in the affair. Fancies that it is also to the suggestions of the English ambassador that he (the Abbot) was indebted for the visit of an Italian bishop, his friend, who, imagining he had some influence on the Cardinal, his master, called upon him the other day and said to him "How happy I should be if Monsignor the Cardinal would shew favour to the king of England in this affair!" (fn. 2) Does not consider it necessary to say what his answer was on the occasion, for he much prefers living and dying poor and with his conscience at ease, to getting the highest dignities in this world at the expense of his honour and reputation.—Rome, 6th July 1530.
Signed: "El abat Llor."
Spanish. Holograph. pp. 2.
7 July.372. Cardinal Ravenna
S. E. L. 850,
f. 141.
Thanks the Emperor for his very gracious and kind letter.
B. M. Add. 28,580,
f. 222.
With regard to the English business he (the Cardinal) has already agreed with Miçer Mai and with Andrea da Borgo (sic), the Hungarian ambassador, upon the best course to be followed. For his own part he can only say that he confidently hopes that the whole will terminate according to the Emperor's wishes, and as justice and right demand.—Da Rome, 7th July 1530.
Signed: "Be[nedetto] Car[dinale] di Ravena."
Addressed: "Sacratissimæ et Augustissimæ Cæsareæ Majestati."
Italian. Original. pp. 2½.
11 July.373. Eustace Chapuys to the Emperor.
K. u. K. Haus-
Hof-u.-Staats Arch.
c. 226, No. 32.
Since my last despatch I have been to see Mr. de Norfolk, who has just returned to Court after a considerable absence. Was as usual kindly received by the Duke; who, after telling me that his absence had been caused by family affairs, and that he had just returned to be present at the sitting of the law courts (aux termes de la justice), inquired for news of Your Majesty, expressing also his surprise at the silence of the King's ambassadors in Italy and Germany, from whom, he said, no intelligence had been received since the bishop of London (Stokesley) had been ordered to proceed to the Pope. Replied that I myself had not heard from Your Majesty since the 14th of May; nor was I expecting any tidings for some time, as Your Majesty wrote now much less frequently than before. "Why should the Emperor write," I observed, "when he sees that whatever representations he may make in writing or otherwise are either entirely disregarded, or strangely misinterpreted, and taken in bad part?" "Indeed," I said, "it seems as if the milder, more cordial, and affectionate the said representations were the more obstinate and refractory they (the English) became, so much so that I really did not know what Your Majesty could write about, unless it were to complain of their conduct towards you, and of their trying to persuade people that you had so little regard for your honour and conscience as to endeavour to make the Pope and other judges pass an unjust sentence in this cause. The King," I said, "ought to be convinced that Your Majesty was the last person to attempt such a thing." I further assured him "that had Your Majesty believed his marriage with the Queen to have been unlawful, you would, for one step that you have taken for its maintenance, have taken a thousand for its dissolution." "The Emperor," I added, "had given them no cause to presume that he would, for any particular object or person in the world, sin against his conscience, especially in a matter in which the king of England, to whom he was as closely bound by friendship, as he was to the Queen by relationship, was deeply concerned." I then added, "that it seemed needless for Your Majesty to write, inasmuch as bad news spread fast enough, and the good ones touching your prosperity and success did not appear to be as acceptable as good friendship and close relationship demanded, and I ended by informing him that in the last letter received from Your Majesty the departure [for Rome] of Dr. Benet had been mentioned.
At the mention of the doctor's name the Duke started, and said: "I was not quite correct when I stated that there had been no news from abroad since the Bishop's departure. I forgot that the King had received a letter from Dr. Benet reporting that he had taken congé of the Emperor, and how, after leaving the Imperial court, a message had been sent to him by Mr. de Granvelle bidding him to return. The doctor had come back the next day and seen the Emperor, who had repeated to him the same cordial assurances and kind messages as before, which after all are substantially the same which you (Chapuys) have conveyed to us on former occasions." "Dr. Benet," continued the Duke, "reports that whilst talking about the divorce, the Emperor told him that if the King, my master, had any cause to mistrust the judges appointed to hear and decide on the case, he would be quite willing that other judges should be chosen of whose impartiality and integrity there should be no doubt."
On this last point of the election of competent judges a long argumentation followed between us, the Duke ending by stating his full conviction that competent and learned judges could not be found out of England; that there were plenty of them in this country, and that it was by English judges that the case would be ultimately settled. After which assurance the Duke drew out from his breast a document with a seal pending therefrom—which seal seemed to me to be that of some convent or religious corporation—and said: "In this paper the names are recorded of those who hold for the divorce, and there are besides doctors innumerable in this country, all men of reputation and learning, who profess the same opinion."
The Duke would not allow me to read the paper, but after many lamentations and sighs in his usual manner (comme a lordinaire), he changed the conversation and passed on to the affairs of Germany, and the invasion threatened by the Turk who, he said, would infallibly return to Austria next year. He then expressed much pity for that good and virtuous king of Hungary (Ferdinand), whom, but for this matter of the divorce, the King, his master, (as he assured me) would most willingly have helped out of his difficulties, as he would not only have assisted him in person but persuaded other Christian princes to do the same. He then went on to say : "With regard to the Turk's return [to Austria], if no other inducement were to be found but that offered by the superiors (fn. 3) of the ambassador, who has just left this room (meaning the Venetian), it will, in my opinion, be quite sufficient, for I am sure the Signory will on the smallest possible provocation recall the Turk [into Europe] just as they did the year before"
In this manner the Duke went on producing arguments in favour of his proposition, and aiming several hits at the Venetians, who, he observed, were a wicked and dangerous set of people, avaricious and false ; though, in my opinion, the cause of all this vituperation is simply that the Signory has not allowed this question of the divorce to be debated [at Padua], as I have already informed Your Majesty in one of my late despatches.
After some further disputation on this and other topics, during which the Duke said many things, which I will not repeat from fear of annoying Your Majesty, he observed that from the credit he enjoyed with the King, and from his having the administration of affairs, the world in general would lay upon him the chief blame of the divorce, and other things, especially as his niece was so much concerned in it; (fn. 4) but that he could lay his hands on his conscience and say with the psalmist : "Jacta cogitatum tuum in Domino," and let the slanderers say what they pleased. That he had never opened his mouth to the King on the subject of the marriage with his niece, though he did not conceal from me that so great an honour would not be unpleasant to him. This remark of the Duke as to the motives that people in general attributed to him, incline me to give some credit to what Brian Tuke himself told me some time ago, namely, that the Duke, since he got rid of the Cardinal, and set in order various matters connected with the tranquillity and welfare of this kingdom, wishes for permission from the King to retire into private life.
I left the Duke soon after this. Next day I received a message from him to say that he had been summoned to Court, but wished very much to see me before he left, and therefore begged me to take the trouble of going to him, as he was so much engaged himself that he could not possibly come to me. Went next morning at the appointed hour; was received by the Duke, who said he regretted having given me the trouble of coming, and still more the cause which had made him send for me, which, as he would explain when we had retired to his cabinet, might have very serious consequences.
Upon entering his room he began to say that the intelligence he was about to communicate was very sad, and might be fraught with mischief (mauvayses et pernicieuses nouvelles), and after all these prologues proceeded to explain how the day before, whilst inquiring of three English merchants, among the principal in the country, and most favourably disposed towards Your Majesty, whether it was true or not that a naval force was being prepared in Spain (fn. 5) for the passage of the Empress (Isabella) to Flanders, the said merchants had complained to him that the Spaniards here (in London) had, during the last four days, declared that no English ships would be allowed to load in Spain as long as there were any Spanish ones wanting freight, which seemed to them a very strange proceeding towards a friendly power in time of peace. The Duke further said that he knew such a statute had existed for some time [in Spain], but it had not been enforced against the English, and if it were now, England would certainly be obliged to retaliate. Replied that there really was such a royal edict of very ancient date in Spain, and that its not having been enforced in past times was no reason for its being abandoned, and considered a grievance now. It might be that no Spanish ships sought for cargo at the time, and that as to new rules being started in England by way of retaliation, I rather thought that there was more need of abolishing the old than of making new ones in a country like this, where Your Majesty's subjects were worst treated than in Barbary, whereas in all your dominions the English were more considered even than the natives themselves. And that should any measures be enacted here against your subjects, the English might depend upon it, Spaniards and Flemish would both retaliate. The Duke begged me, for the prevention of all evil arising from this cause, to write home about it, which I at once promised to do.
The Duke after this returned to the subject of the divorce, and said that as there seemed to be no other way of bringing this business to an end, he would willingly sacrifice the greatest part of what he owned in this world if God would be pleased to take to himself the Queen and his niece also, for certainly the King would never enjoy peace of mind until he had made another marriage, both for the relief of his own conscience as for the preservation of the tranquillity of this realm, which, he said, could only be attained by the existence of male posterity to succeed to his crown. Replied that the King, not being able to ensure the possession of male heirs, ought not to have put himself in the intricate position (labyrinte) in which he was, troubling the whole of Christendom with so scandalous an example, and sowing such pestilential views in his kingdom. That the truest, most expedient, and most laudable way of promoting the happiness of his subjects and providing male succession to his crown was to marry his daughter, the Princess, now of a suitable age for marriage, and as capable of bearing male children as any other woman, and that for my own part I should like to see his (the Duke's) son chosen for her husband, as, unless the Princess were to marry a foreign prince, I could not discover a more fitting alliance for her. Said a good deal more on this subject, and ended by stating that this suggestion was entirely my own, and did not in any way proceed from Your Majesty or from the Queen. It originated only in my personal esteem and affection for him, and I had not mentioned it to anyone else.
Upon which the Duke replied that he had a marriage in prospect for his son, through which he should increase his revenue by 3,000 ducats. The duke of Suffolk had offered him his daughter, but though she was the King's own niece, still, as she had not a large dowry, the King thought the Duke's son had better marry the daughter of Dalby (Derby), as in the event of her brother, the earl of Dalby (Derby) dying, she would inherit the finest estates in England. (fn. 6) The Duke, however, said that he was not much inclined to this [latter] marriage, owing to his son being only 14, whilst the lady was 19 years old. As to my allusion to a marriage between the Princess [Mary] and his son, the Duke thanked me exceedingly for the kind feeling which had led to the suggestion, but said he would not propose it to the King even if they were to give him in consequence enough gold to fill the room in which we were. I observed, however, that the Duke did not discard this idea quite as much as when I first spoke of it, which leads me to infer that he would not be sorry if I, or some one else, were to mention it to the King, provided the latter was convinced that he (the Duke) was ignorant of the proposal.
Lest the Duke should ask me to introduce this mysterious affair to the King (introduyre ce mystere vers le Roi), I changed the conversation, and we passed to other matters, upon which the Duke introduced again the subject of "suspected judges" in matters of this kind, and said: "Nothing is more certain than that the Pope will in this and in every other case do the Emperor's bidding, even if he were to be asked [by him] to dance in the public streets in a, jester's jacket. This could be easily proved by the advocation of the suit [to Rome], and other measures which he had ordered though by no means agreeable to himself." Replied that the Pope had actually declined to act as judge in this cause, which had consequently been sent to the Rota, which was a tribuna composed of 12 most wise and learned ecclesiastics, all mer of perfect integrity, whom neither he (the Pope) nor Your Majesty could oblige to decide otherwise than according to right and justice.
To this and other arguments of mine the Duke could only reply by again stating that there were in this country plenty of learned men capable of judging the case, and that the English prelates could decree this divorce, as they had done many previous ones, without going to Rome; and when I observed that there was a great difference between this particular divorce and those to which he (the Duke) alluded, and that it was really essential that the cause should be tried out of England, he reminded me of what I had said respecting the impartial and competent judges, and pressed me to mention that again to the King. He could not venture to do so, he said, but if I did, the King might, perhaps, consent to it. Replied that my instructions did not empower me to act in the matter, and that assuming, as he himself had stated, that Your Majesty had suggested it to Dr. Benet, I had of my own accord, and without instructions, pointed out the probability of the thing, though upon further consideration you could hardly have taken such a step without giving notice to the Queen, who is the principal party concerned, and that I was astonished that the earl of Wiltshire, whilst at Bologna, had not settled the point with Your Majesty. The Duke observed that never at any time had a mission been worse conducted than the one entrusted to the Earl. He (the Duke) had never seen the King so displeased with an ambassador before. That it was the Earl's great desire to return home which had done all the mischief, and that but for his (the Duke's) intervention, the King would have sent him on to Rome instead of allowing him to come back. The Earl (he added) had not been instructed to make any proposal whatever concerning the election of judges, as it was thought at the time that he would bring the entire case to such a complete settlement with Your Majesty as to render all discussion about judges quite unnecessary. Replied that whoever supposed that Your Majesty and the World at large could give their consent to such a thing without a definite and legal decision, misunderstood entirely the importance and merits of the case. Upon which the Duke asked me : "Who do you think would be competent judges in this affair?" but perceiving that I did not answer, or care to go further into the subject, he went on to say: "What do you think of Monseigneur the cardinal of Liege, and of Monseigneur de Tarbes, newly elected to the cardinalate?" Could not help answering that I approved for many reasons of the former, but disapproved strongly of the latter, for he was one of the first to put this fancy into the King's head, and had afterwards pushed the affair in Rome publicly, said things and made remarks unworthy of a man in his position. (fn. 7) The Duke denied ever having heard of these proceedings of the Sieur de Tarbes; but observed that if he had contented himself with pushing the King's affairs at Rome he would have done much less harm than by making, as he had done, unwarrantable assertions about his (the Duke's) person, and that of other members of the Privy Council; for he had been heard to say in public that they were good for nothing (que ce nestoit rien que deulx); that it was only during the time that the Cardinal (Wolsey) was in power, that the King was dreaded by the Pope, the Emperor, and the rest of the Christian Princes; that since the Cardinal's fall none of them (the Duke and councillors) could win esteem or respect for their king. The Duke added that every day that passed convinced him more fully of the truth of the statement which I once made to him, as communicated to me by Mr, de Praët, namely, that the French would do all they could to restore the said Cardinal to power, but that they might do as they pleased, the Cardinal might use all the artifices he could conjure up, he would never again either see or speak with the King. This, however, he (Wolsey) had attempted very recently, for he had been plotting in the most ingenious and subtle manner, only the means of execution had failed him, for he had confided in and tried to carry out his plan through three men who [were supposed] to have made false coin for the Duke; (fn. 8) and the men, knowing very well that the Cardinal's intrigues could not harm anyone but him (the Duke), had come to him and revealed the whole plot (descouvert le pasté), thus enabling him to countermine it, and take precautions for the future.
After this the conversation again turned on the Sieur de Tarbes. I observed to the Duke that it might well be that the said gentleman bishop, as well as Mr. de Langeais and the others, had been scheming for the Cardinal in France and elsewhere, in order that they might gain influence over the king of England without the knowledge of their master; and that perhaps also they wished to suggest to the latter that, as the king of England thought that his best security for receiving payment from France was to be on good terms with Your Majesty, they ought to find some means of counterbalancing that influence by alienating Your Majesty's affection from him, an object for which I was sure King Francis would willingly give both his ears (en donroyt les oreillies). At these words the Duke interrupted me by saying that no doubt the treaty of friendship between Your Majesty and the king of France was favourable to both parties (estoit beau et bien couché), and a very fine thing altogether; that the alliance of the latter with your sister (Eleanor) could not be better; but that the advantages and assistance [in times of need] which England had at various times supplied to France were no less efficacious than the said treaty and matrimonial alliance. "In truth," he added, "considering the manner in which the Emperor had treated the king of France, obliging him to disburse more money than he could really pay, and do many other things by sheer force, I take it that no firm and lasting friendship can really exist between the two, and three years at least must pass before France can recover her strength, and matters be placed on a firm footing as they ought to be."
This proposition of the Duke was for some time the subject of discussion, and after that the question arose between us as to who had been the more magnanimous with his vanquished enemy: Your Majesty with the king of France, or the English with king Jean, and to which side France would now under present circumstances rather lean for friendship and alliance, to England or to Your Majesty. After which I remarked that whatever sentiments Your Majesty might now entertain for the king of France, or for any other prince whomsoever, that would nowise diminish your affection for the king of England, whose friendship, owing to near connection, mutual obligations, and natural inclination you had always valued more than that of any other in the world, and that no doubt they (the English) knew well enough that your good-will was as valuable to them as that of the French. The Duke acknowledged the truth of my statement, and said that not only the King, his master, was convinced that his friendship with Your Majesty was the best security for the French debt, but that there were many at Court who were continually reminding him of the fact, and that but for this business of the divorce there would be now firmer alliance and closer friendship than ever between his master and Your Majesty.
Wishing to obtain some information about the Earl's doings in France, I then told him that there were many different reports among the people, concerning that nobleman's mission, and that if the Cardinal (Wolsey), whose chief delight had always been to embroil matters, and set up people one against another had been in power, I should have been inclined to think that the Earl had gone thither to do mischief. (fn. 9) I had now no fears of that sort for many reasons, and principally because he (the Duke) had so much influence with the King, and the management of affairs was so much in his hands, that I had no doubt the Earl's mission to that country had nothing to do with politics. The Duke's answer was that the earl of Wiltshire had gone to France for the sole purpose of being present at the liberation of the King's sons, and claiming payment of the debt on salt, which has been due for the last three years, and amounts now to 45,000 crs. (fn. 10) There is some probability of the former having been one of the Earl's objects; but as to the salt, it strikes me that the claim might just as well have been entrusted to the two English ambassadors now residing in France. I am, therefore, much inclined to think that other more important schemes are on foot, and that perhaps also an effort is now being made, through the king of France, to obtain the seals of the French universities.
Did not fail to tell the Duke that there was also a report of the King being about to advance money to the Florentines, and that the king of France would stand security for it. To this the Duke replied that certainly the King had often been pressed to make them a loan, but that he had always resisted, and at last he (the Duke) himself had resolutely denied the application in the name of the King, his master, as he considered that it was a very foolish thing to throw away money in that quarter; and that in consequence of this refusal, he was no favourite with the Florentines.
After this the Duke again introduced the subject of the Turkish war, repeating almost the same words he had said to me on a, previous occasion, and adding, in plain words, "I tell you candidly that last year, when the King, my master, refused your application for help against the Turk, his reason was that he did not wish the Emperor to become more powerful than he is, or to help his elevation in any way, as he himself would have nothing to gain, but much to lose by it." (fn. 11) Refuted as strongly as I could this abominable idea, and tried to prove the contrary, when the Duke, perceiving that he had no just ground to stand upon, changed the conversation, (fn. 12) and passing to another topic, asked me more than once: "What danger do you think there would be were the King, my master, to take another wife, as he will most certainly do in the end?" Mentioned in my reply some of the most obvious which that measure might give rise to, and above all one which is generally apprehended, namely, the mutual strife and division of the people throughout this kingdom; for the rest I referred the matter to him, as the person most interested in the matter, and most capable of appreciating the position. I then took leave of him (je m' expediny de luy), and he accompanied me to the gallery where we parted, he, the Duke, telling me with a smile on his lips: "You perhaps think that the two above-named cardinals (fn. 13) will probably decide in favour of the divorce?" Returned the Duke's smile, but made no formal answer to his question.
I really think that the principal reason the Duke had for thus inviting me to his house, was to see whether he could induce me to talk to the King about the choice of judges; for certainly the business about which he spoke to me was by no means urgent, considering that nothing has yet been done about it in Spain, or that perhaps the threats of which I have made use on other occasions have made him think that there might be some hostile intentions on the part of Your Majesty.
I am told that the day before my interview with the Duke, he happened to meet a worthy gentleman (un homme de bien) of this court, and complained to him of the rigorous tone Your Majesty had adopted towards the King in this matter of the divorce, adding that if you intended to go to war with him only on that account, you would find no help in the quarter whence you expected it most, whereas the King, his master, would meet in many places, and especially in Germany, with sympathy and friendship.
Saw at the Duke's house Master Brian Tuke, who again apologized for not having come to see me, and said that the message he once sent me, expressing a hope that this question of the divorce would be soon settled to the satisfaction of all parties concerned, had reference to Your Majesty's approaching visit to Flanders which he thought was about to take place, and in his opinion would be the means of setting everything to rights, hinting no doubt at an interview between Your Majesty and the King either in Flanders or here in this country. Said to him that as personal communication in times like these could not be frequent, from fear of arousing suspicion, I begged him once for ever to do everything in his power, if he really wished to serve his master, to maintain the friendship between him and Your Majesty. Brian Tuke replied that he was continually working in that direction, much more so indeed than people imagined.
Eight days ago the Princess sent to ask the King for permission to come and see him here before he goes away on a hunting expedition, which will take up his time till November. The King, however, preferred going to her, and remained [at Richmond] all last Wednesday, shewing her all possible affection. God grant that this may last!
Last Thursday the news arrived here of the liberation of the sons of France, in honour of which the King had bonfires lit in this city, and sent orders to the Lord Mayor to solemnize the event in a square close to his mansion, where one of the bonfires was lit. (fn. 14)
On the same day I received a visit from the Venetian ambassador. He told me he had not been to court since except upon the occasion and on the business whereof I informed Your Majesty by one of my despatches.
To-day the French ambassador has received intelligence that 100 Parisian doctors have given opinion in favour of this King, and that the University is also to give its seal to that effect. This is no doubt, bad news for the Queen, as the King will become more arrogant than ever, and have their names and votes proclaimed throughout his kingdom. It is, moreover, to be feared that now that he is supported by the university of Paris he may gain to his views a considerable portion of his subjects, and also attempt the accomplishment of his marriage without awaiting the Pope's further decision, At this the Lady will be nothing loth, for quite lately she has been, as I am informed, urging on the King, and telling him that Your Majesty had it not in your power to do him any harm, and that her family alone would provide for one year 10,000 men for his service at their own expense; and that since Your Majesty had not suffered any qualms of conscience in marrying your own first cousin [Isabella of Portugal], you could not decently ask others to be more scrupulous in this matter. I am told that a short time ago the King said to the Lady that she was under great obligation to him, since he was offending everyone and making enemies everywhere for her sake, and that she replied: "That matters not, for it is foretold in ancient prophecies that at this time a Queen shall be burnt: but even if I were to suffer a thousand deaths, my love for you will not abate one jot." (fn. 15)
The Queen is to accompany the King on the hunting expedition as usual.
And now, having recounted in detail all the events of this court and city according to Your Majesty's orders, I will end, &c.—London, 11th July 1530.
Signed: "Eustace Chapuys."
Addressed: "To the Emperor."
Indorsed: "From the ambassador in England, July 11th. Received on the 24th."
French. Holograph. pp. 12.
13 July.374. Miçer Mai to the Emperor.
S. E. L. 849,
ff. 38-39.
B. M. Add. 28,580,
f. 213.
His other despatch is almost exclusively devoted to the English cause; this will be a report on general affairs.
[Cipher ;] The release of Luigi Alamani, who was arrested at Genoa, has somewhat changed the state of affairs in Florence. The Pope was tired and half in despair, and though half the Spaniards who mutinied for want of pay and entered Pisa returned to the camp repenting at what they had done, yet His Holiness was afraid of the consequences. The king of France, they say, is sending a man called el Escudier Francesco (fn. 16) to undeceive the Florentines, and tell them that they must not count upon him for help, &c. What the Pope fears most is the sack of the city, and the negociations preliminary to the surrender, as the Prince says that in order to withdraw his army from Florence 200,000 ducats are required, and that he cannot do it for less.
His Holiness is in despair because he cannot see whence so large a sum of money is to come; but I have no doubt that in the end, rather than see the undertaking fail, he will do his utmost. Told me the other day to go to Florence myself; I declined on account of the Queen's business. He then pointed out Muxetula; but I told him that he was not inclined to go either. Suggested at last that I should write to Your Majesty begging for a fit person to be appointed. Replied that the marques del Gasto (Vasto) and the Secretary, and Luis Ransom, (fn. 17) were all at Naples. We then thought of the archbishop of Capua; but as he has not yet recovered from his last illness, there is very little chance of his accepting the commission.
The Diet to be held in Hungary to discuss the matter of the Vayvod, and the general truce with the Turk.
Burning of the Turkish fleet at Obtonaz in Sclavonia.
Turks and Venetians.—Cesaro Imperiale among the former urging them to come down upon Sicily.
Two Moorish galleys met two Genoese going to Iviça in the Balcaric islands, one of which had ammunition and 600 men for Andrea Doria. One of the two galleys was taken; the other defended itself for some time, until at last the enemy sank her. Cachadiablo, the Jew, who commanded one of the two Moorish galleys, was slain in the encounter.
Nothing has been heard for some time, of the abbot of Farfa. The Pope suspects that he is still at Montefortino; and as most probably Ascanio Colonna would be glad of a commission to attack that place and make war upon Julio, I have dexterously persuaded the Pope not to undertake anything at present against that castle, for after all Julio Colonna is the brother of the Cardinal [Pompeo]. The Pope has agreed with me. Sciarra Colonna came the other day here, and asked me to give him advice. The Pope had committed to him the attack on Bracciano, and as he and the rest of his family are faithful servants of Your Majesty, he wished to know how he was to behave on the occasion. Told him, without hesitation, to follow implicitly the Pope's commands.
Ascanio writes that he knows for certain the Abbot has married and consummated matrimony with the daughter of Julio at Montefortino, and that the Abbot himself declares it. I have sent for the governor and agent of Julio's estate who is here, and he tells me that the report is untrue.
Luigi Gonzaga and Isabella Colonna.
The Duke of Ferrara and the Pope. For some reason or other the negociations between them have been suddenly broken off, which makes me suspect that, notwithstanding all his protests, he (the Duke) is after no good.
Told the Pope how matters of Faith stood in Germany, and the other day a congregation was held to consider the Lutheran propositions as forwarded by the Papal Legate.
Cardinal de Agramonte (Gabriel de Grammont) had the news of the restitution of the hostages, and the arrival [at Bordeaux] of queen Eleanor published the day before yesterday, in consequence of which there were, last night, illuminations and rejoicings all over this city, and principally at the houses of the partisans of France. Yesterday the question was raised in Consistory whether the Pope and the cardinals ought to make some demonstration that way, but D'Osma opposed it with all his might, until we heard of the marriage being consummated. This notwithstanding, I called upon the French ambassador, and complimented him on the occasion.
The Pope has been told that Mr. de St. Pol was at Milan, with about 100 gentlemen and servants, on his way to fulfil a vow at our Lady of Loreto; and Don Lope writes [from Siena ?] that he had also heard that the duke of Milan, for fear of the French, was collecting troops. I do not believe either of these reports.
Renzo da Ceri, I am told, will soon take his departure for France, having at last obtained permission to go thither.
The fief of Monferrato, and opinions of the dukes of Milan, Savoy, and Urbino respecting it.
The duke of Mantua, a few days ago, had Malatesta, the same who was some time his ambassador at Your Majesty's court, arrested, together with a friar by whose advice he acted. This latter was immediately set at liberty by order of the Duke, but Malatesta is still in prison, and very much in disgrace with the Duke. What his crime may be I do not know for certain.
Rumours of plague at Rome.
The King of Hungary sent the other day for 30,000 cwt. of gunpowder; but it could not be procured ; there is not that quantity in all Italy.—Commission to cardinal Campeggio to proceed against the Hungarian bishops who had followed the party of the Vayvod—Rome, 13th July 1530.
Signed: "Mai."
Addressed: "To the Sacred, Imperial, and Catholic Majesty."
Spanish. Original partly in cipher, pp. 8.
13 July.375. Rodrigo Niño to the Emperor.
S. E.L. I,308,
f. 65.
B. M. Add. 28,580,
f. 241.
Wrote on the 19th and 28th ulto and 6th inst. On Monday last this Signory received a letter from their ambassador in France stating that the liberation of the King's sons had been effected. The letter was dated the 2nd inst. Failed not to go and compliment the French ambassador thereupon.
Renzo da Ceri has left for France. Has been able to procure a copy of the letter the King wrote, telling him to bring as few "fuorusciti" as possible with him.
Count Guido Rangone, a Modenese captain in the service of France, is still here. He came yesterday to see me, and laughed much at Renzo's departure for France and at his plans of again calling the French king back to Italy, which, in his opinion, was quite impracticable. The king of France, he said, could no more raise 600 lances than he could 600,000 ; he had not a farthing left. All he wanted now was peace and tranquillity to recruit his forces. He had recommended the "fuorusciti" who were in France to throw themselves at the feet of queen Eleanor, that she might intercede for them with Your Majesty. That was the only remedy, the King said, which he could think of for the present.
Since the return of the bishop of London (Stokesly) from Padua, I have endeavoured to ascertain what he did in that city. Although the Signory had always assured me that the English had achieved nothing, I heard that they had certainly convoked at a monastery a certain number of friars, who, in the name of a college of divines [at Padua], had given a determination in favour of the king of England and against the power (potencia) of the Pope. Having ascertained as much, I went to the College-hall, and said to the Doge before his Council of the Ten, that I wondered greatly that such a thing could have happened after their repeated assurances that nothing would be done at the university of Padua against the authority of the Pope or to the prejudice of the Queen. I informed them that the bishop of London (Stokesly) had caused certain friars to assemble and pass, in the name of a college of divines, a vote against the Pope's power. The Doge and Council stood amazed, and said they were not aware of the existence of a college of divines at Padua, and that if any friar had given his opinion it was of no consequence at all. I assured them that it was a fact, and explained to them the circumstances of the case. I had (I said) written to Your Majesty that, disapproving highly of the steps taken by the English ambassadors in an affair of this sort, they (the Doge and Council) had promised me that no opinion should be taken at Padua against the authority of the Church, and the right of a Princess so closely allied to Your Majesty, and now I could not help writing that, contrary to their promise, those friars had met and given a vote which would be a cause of great disappointment and regret to Your Majesty. They again protested that they could not believe it; there was no such college of divines at Padua now, nor had they ever heard that there was ever one there but they would send thither and ascertain the truth. And so they did, and found that I was right, upon which they expressed great regret at what had happened, and sent for one of the friars, (fn. 18) whom they abused in very strong language making him produce a copy of the opinion given to the bishop of London, with the names of all those who had signed it, a transcript of which is herein enclosed. (fn. 19) I will send another to Mai, that he may shew it to the Pope, and let him know how these friars treat his authority. I had already written to him on the subject, but could not send the copy at the time, as it was only to-day that I received it from the Signory.
I am angry beyond measure (tomado de la ira de Dios) with this Signory seeing that notwithstanding my frequent warnings, and the many assurances they have given me, such a thing should have been allowed to take place in Padua. They go on saying that they were ignorant of the existence of such a college there; and Gaspar Contareni in particular, the same who was once ambassador at Your Majesty's court, assures me that during the seven years he was a student at Padua he never heard of there being in that city a college of divines incorporated with that university, that being the reason why they (the Doge and Ten) had left the matter unprovided for. He (Contareni) further assured me that the Doge and Council were exceedingly sorry at what had happened, and added that except three or four of the friars all the rest were asses (bestias).
Your Majesty may believe me, it is from such men as these that the English agents have already obtained more than 150 signatures. I only wonder that the number does not increase to 100,000, considering the means they employ to gain votes, for what they cannot get by promises they obtain by threats, the whole thing being besides conducted with the utmost secrecy.
I beg leave to inform Your Majesty that the general of the Augustinians is now here, and that he has also been very much importuned to declare in favour of the King, and approve of these conclusions against Papal authority (potencia). He has hitherto excused himself on the ground of business, but they have pressed him so hard that he has been obliged to tell them at last that he is unwilling to mix himself up with an affair so scandalous, so injurious to the Church, and affecting persons so closely allied to Your Majesty as the queen of England and the king of Portugal (Dom Joao) and his brothers, for the father of the latter (fn. 20) obtained dispensation in the same degree. Notwithstanding the general's good reasons for denying the ambassadors' requests, they still insist, and tell him to think of the many monasteries his Order has in England, and that they might suffer on his account. His answer has been that they may do what they please with the monasteries [in England], but as far as he is concerned, no threats shall prevail upon him to approve or sanction anything of the sort. They told him further that should the Pope refuse to annul the dispensation, the intention of their King, after receiving the opinions of these doctors, which are to be fowarded to him immediately, was to marry the Lady "de facto," and shut up the Queen in a castle where no one should see her.
All this the general of the Augustinians has told me confidentially, and I write it down that Your Majesty may know how matters stand here, and what are the King's wicked intentions. I beg that the whole thing be kept a most profound secret, and that nobody may suspect whence the information comes, because I have engaged my most solemn word that it will be so.
This Signory would have ordered the Paduan friars to unsay what they have written against the power of the Pope, had I only asked for it, but this I did not wish to do without further instructions from Your Majesty, because the thing could not possibly be kept secret, and, besides, the friars themselves are not worth the trouble.
News from Constantinople, &c.—Venice, 13th July 1530.
Signed: "Rodrigo Niño."
Spanish. Original. pp. 5.
13 July.376. The Ferrarese Ambassador in France to the Duke.
S. E. L. 851,
f. 59.
B.M. Add. 28,580,
f. 247.
The day after the news of the liberation of the Princes arrived, he (II Manfredo) took post to Bayonne, but was not in time, having already found them at Dachs (Dax). Called on the Grand Master (Anne de Montmorency), with whom he had a long conversation. After duly congratulating him in the Duke's name on so happy an event, he (Manfredo) gave him the Duke's message, to which he responded in the most amiable and courtly manner, assuring him of the great affection the King, his master, professed towards him. Gave him the duke of Chartre's (fn. 21) letter, and his congratulations, which the Grand Master answered in a like manner, inquiring very kindly after Madame Renée's health. Was then conducted by him to the apartments of the Princes, to whom he presented his respects. The Dauphin "in lingua castigliana elegantissima," said that he accepted with good grace His Excellency's offers of service, and that if the opportunity presented itself he would not fail to remind him of his promise. The duke of Orleans, "che per ventura haveua lanimo avadando da lasciare, et perque maluolontieri parla spagnuolo, ne sanna bene il francese," said only two words of thanks. Went afterwards to the Queen (Eleanor), to whom he delivered the Duke's letters, and those of Don Hercole. Her Majesty would not give him her hand to kiss, though "io spagnoleggiando un poco ne la pregasse." She said: "Mucchio gelo agradezcho i donde podre le haré benefitio, é che desseava saber nuevas del Duque i de Madame Renea." (fn. 22) The King and the Royal family left the same day for Bordeaux, where a most sumptuous reception had been prepared for them, the minute description of which as well as of the ladies' dresses down to their very shoes goes by another post addressed to Madame [Renée].
Signor Ludovico, (fn. 23) who took yesterday conge of the King, and of the Queen to-day, will leave after to-morrow. The Court will move on one league from this city next Monday, that is provided Madame [Louise], who is unwell, and was yesterday visited by queen Eleanor, is in a fit state to travel.
This morning a report was in circulation that Signor Alberto di Carpi had given up his blessed soul to his Creator (. reso quetta benedetta anima sua), and that he had died from extreme joy at the liberation of the Princes. It may be so, for he was not in good health, and besides a brother of II Sormano (Gasparo ?) says he has seen letters announcing his death, and yet, notwithstanding all that, I cannot believe it.
Have been told that the king of France complains that our Lord [the Pope] has been the cause of the liberation of his children having been delayed.
Respecting Florence, cannot see that any provision is made except fair promises; and yet there can be no doubt that both the King and the Grand Master shew greater favour than ever to the Florentine ambassador. The general opinion is that nothing will be done in politics until the court reaches Bles (Blois). The ambassador of the Vayvod, who formerly went about court "incognito," has been lately allowed to assume his rank.
This letter goes by way of Reggio, addressed to Jacomo Hieronimo, the Pope's chamberlain. A paper describing a conversation with II Sormano will go by another route.——13th July 1530.
Signed: "II Manfredo."
Addressed: "Illustrissimo et Excellentissimo Signore il Ducha di Ferrara, mio unicho signore."
Italian. Contemporary copy. pp. 4.
14 July.
S.E. L. 851,
377. Memorandum sent to Miçer Mai concerning the Lutherans.
B. M. Add. 28,580,
f, 256.
The duke of Hesse, elector, and four more Princes of his league have put into the hands of His Imperial Majesty a memorandum on upwards of 50 sheets of paper, a copy of which has been forwarded to Rome by the Papal legate. Twenty learned divines have been appointed to examine the same, and prepare an answer approving of what may seem acceptable, and rejecting the rest, with all modesty, and according to Scripture. Meanwhile the said Elector and the other Lutheran princes have by the advice of the Legate and other Catholics, been asked if they wish on any point to add to or retrench from their former writing. Their answer is now in the hands of the Legate, who will most probably remit it to Rome by this post. It says that they (the Lutherans) avoided saying anything in their first memorandum about the morals of the Clergy or the abuses of the Church, and that they begged His Majesty to take the matter into consideration as soon as possible, because they (the members of the Diet) had already been too long absent from home.
The answer prepared by the Legate and divines is drawn out both in Latin and in German, that it may be published in the same form in which their memorandum is. It does not appear as if any writing on our side could do any good; the only thing will be to offer them a council, as His Majesty writes to the Pope. This is also the express desire of the said electors, and of the Catholic princes, who could not be induced at the Diet to declare themselves further than to say that if the Council is proposed, and the Lutheran princes refuse to come, they, the Catholics, will do what is proper. On the other hand the Lutheran princes trust in the number of their adherents, and the truth is that many cities and populous towns are in a bad state as regards matters of Faith.
Spanish. Contemporary copy. pp. 3.
14 July.378. The Emperor to the Pope.
S. E. L. 635,
f. 85.
B. M. Add. 28,580,
f. 258.
We have sent to our ambassador the particulars of what has hitherto been done at the Diet. The duke of Saxony, the Electors, and other princes of the opposite party (que siguen lo contrario) have sent in a memorandum of their demands. As far as We can judge, they will not agree to our being a judge in this matter, and although We are by right such a judge, and might enforce the same by law, We cannot help thinking that to insist upon such right under present circumstances might be attended with some difficulty. An answer is being prepared to their demands; but whatever this may be We are almost sure, such is their obstinacy, that they will insist upon a council being summoned. If not promised to them, they will not only persevere in their errors, but will fall every day into new and greater ones, which might be the occasion of incalculable evils. Indeed, whilst in some of the Electors who are sincerely attached to us, We perceive much coldness and weakness (flojedad), the others are a most stubborn set, and seem determined to have their own way, as the most Revd. Legate must have observed and reported to Your Holiness. We recommend the hading of a council as the only means of quieting the passions of Germany.—Agusta (Augsburg) 14th July 1530.
Spanish. Original draft. pp. 7.
15 July.379. The Duke of Saxony [George] to Henry VIII.
Doc. Hist.
B. M. Add. 28,580,
f. 263.
Has received by his ambassador his. letter dated Hampton Court, June. Cannot sufficiently express his satisfaction at the King's good-will towards him, and at the manner in which he has received his friendly admonition of the sinister rumours now current in Germany. Rejoices all the more at the King's vindication, shewing that he was not influenced by private motives or self-interest, but only by the fear of God, following the advice and persuasion of certain eminent men (quorumdam magni nominis consilio ac suasu). He is sure the King would never attempt anything for which he could not give sufficient reason; and yet wishes he had never been led to this. He has no doubt there are several men in his kingdom of approved learning, who will easily remove the scruples of his conscience, and shew to the world that His Highness' marriage needs no further legitimisation.
Has not yet been able to speak with his ambassador, partly on account of the business of the Diet, and partly for want of an interpreter, as he cannot understand English.—Augsburg, 15th July [15]30.
Signed : "Georgius Dei gratia Saxoniœ dux, &c."
Latin. Original. pp. 2.


1 See above, p. 613.
2 "Me ablo diciendome en su italiano que beato mi si el Cardenal mio, Egidio, haueva per ricomendato il negocio del Rey dingliterra is a sentence which is neither Italian nor Spanish, but a mixture of the two languages. The Abbot was most likely a native of Barcelona, for Llor is the name of two abbeys both in Catalonia, one in the province of Gerona, the other in that of Lerida, and the Abbot himself signs himself "llabat llor" and "ell abat llor."
3 "Quant luy faudroint toutcs autres occasions que les [supperieurs de lambas-sadeur] qui de la partoit davec luy questoint (questoit) [cellui de Venize] pour m moindre chose le rappelleroint aussi bien que le firent lannee passee.
4 "Quil pensoit bien a cause du credit et administration que le roi luy avoit donne que le monde chargeroit eur luy tant de l'affere du dit divorce, a cause qui touche se niepce que ausy de toutes autres choses."
5 "Que le jour devant soy enquerant de trois marchans angloix de principaux du peys et les plus affectionnes a la part de votre maieste s'il estoit vray que lon dressa armee de mer en hispagne."
6 "ll me dit quil avoit unc fillie eutre mains que la donnant a son filz yl en amanderoit de troys mille ducats de rente, ct que le due de Nolpholc (sic) luy avoit presente le sienne, et combien quelle soit niepce du roy, toutes foys pource qu'elle na grand dot, le dit seigneur roy vouloit plus tost que son filz expousa la fillie dalby, cart venant a mourir le cointe dalby, son frere, elle heriteroit le plus beau estat d'angleterrc."
7 "Du premier jauouay et comprouvay par plusieurs raysons de suffisanze, et par autant reprouvay celle de lautre vehu mesmemant quil avoit este des premiers quavoit cecy mis en la fantasie du roy, et dempuys avoit sollicite ce affere en Romme, et rué des propos assez inconsideres pour ung tel personnage."
8 "Et astrologueroit le cardinal tant quil voudroit toutesfoys de sa vie yl ne parleroit au roy ny le verroit. Ce qu'il avoit bien pensé fere yl y avoit peu de jours, et a ce effayt avoit inventee la plus caute et subtille occasion du monde, mays les moyens de lexecution avoint este bien folz, cart le dit cardinal cestoit declayre, et vouloit fere menner les practiques a troy qui fesoint faulce monnoye pour le dit due."
9 "Et que sil eust este du temps que regissoit le Cardinal, qui ne se delectoit que de broulier, garbouger, et renverser le monde, jeusse sospeçonne que le dit comte fust este la pour traymer quelque chose autre que bonne."
10 "Et ausy pour fere que le scel (sic) que les françoys leur doibuent de troys troys (sic) ans que monte xlv.m escuz leur soyt payee."
11 "Et apres aucunes deuises yl me dit tout clerement et rondement que le roy lannee passe navoit voulu entendre a. donner secour centre iceux a cause quil n' avoit occasion de desirer estre votre maieste plus grande quelle estoit et moyns luy ayder pour y parvenir cart de ce ne luy pourroit venir bien et de dommage assez."
12 "Je commençay a vouloer convaincre et detester une tant damnable et execrable intention, et sachant quil ne soubstenoit juste querelle yl ne voulust entre [r] en campt, ains changea de propos."
13 The archbishop of Liege and Mr. de Tarbes. See above p. 630.
14 "Et par le mesme commandemant le mayre se trouva en quelque solempnite en la plus prochaine place de sa mayson ou se feysoit lung des dits feux."
15 "A. quoy elle fist reponce que cella estoit peu de fait au regard delle que sçauoit bien par les anciennes profecies que disoint que en ce temps il y deuoit auoir une royne que seroit bruslee, may, quant bien elle deuroit mille fois morir, si ne rabbattroit elle riens de son amour."
16 "El caballero Escudier Francesco."
17 Thus in the copy from Simancas.
18 "Hanle dicho cosas del Diablo."
19 Not in the bundle.
20 Dom Manuel, king of Portugal, married in 1497 Isabella, widow of his brother Dom Alfonso. Isabella herself was the younger sister of Juana, queen of Castille, the mother of Charles V. She died in 1498, and then Dom Manuel married her sister, Maria, third daughter of Ferdinand and Isabella, who died in 1517.
21 Renée de France married to Hercole d'Este, the duke of Ferrara's eldest son, was at this time duchess of Chartres.
22 "Mucho so lo agradezeo, y donde podré le haré beneficio, y desseo saber nuevas del Duque y de Madama Renea."
23 Who this Signor Ludovico may be I have been unable to find out, unless it be Ludovico Visconti, who was still at the court of France.


759 JohnHadwin - (Friday 26 Apr 2013 18:46:01)
Calendar of State Papers, Spain, vol IV, pt 1. Document 375 of 19 July 1530, note 20.<br />Isabella was indeed the widow of Alfonso - but he was Manuel's nephew, not his brother, and the marriage was therefore perfectly valid by Levitical standards. This error was common at the time and led to false comparisons with Henry VIII's first marriage.
Cambridge Modern History (vol. XIII, Genealogical Tables, Lists and General Index, Cambridge, 1911), Table 88