Venice
June 1624, 1-10

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Institute of Historical Research

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Allen B. Hinds (editor)

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1912

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328-338

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'Venice: June 1624, 1-10', Calendar of State Papers Relating to English Affairs in the Archives of Venice, Volume 18: 1623-1625 (1912), pp. 328-338. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=88911 Date accessed: 02 September 2014.


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Contents

June 1624

June 1.
Misc.
Cod. No. 63.
Venetian
Archives.
412. MARC ANTONIO PADAVIN, Venetian Secretary in Germany, to the DOGE and SENATE.
We hear from Brussels that the news sent recently by express courier that the Prince of England had gone to the Hague, is untrue and was an invention of the enemy.
Vienna, the 1st June, 1624.
[Italian; copy.]
June 1.
Misc.
Cod. No. 63.
Venetian
Archives.
413. MARC ANTONIO PADAVIN, Venetian Secretary in Germany, to the DOGE and SENATE.
The preparations of England are proceeding very slowly, and are like to prove very insignificant this year and to come late. In any case the Spaniards have such a large and powerful force in Flanders that it will suffice to repulse any attempt that the English may make in that direction and so they think it unnecessary to send any more troops thither.
Now they are free from anxiety about Hungary, they think of settling the Empire, which they think cannot be done without an Imperial Diet; but this presents difficulties, because Saxony and Brandenburg will not recognise Bavaria as an Elector, and he will only come in that character. The proposed compromise that he shall enjoy the vote for life and that it shall pass to the Palatine's son, who shall be brought up a Catholic, is not accepted by England, while the pope presses it strongly. The Spaniards want to use this question for keeping up the hopes of the King of Great Britain in order to prevent him from taking decisive action.
Vienna, the 1st June, 1624.
[Italian; copy.]
June 2.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Spagna.
Venetian
Archives.
414. ALVISE CORNER, Venetian Ambassador in Spain, to the DOGE and SENATE.
The English Ambassador still has no reply to his paper. They charged the Marquis of Montes Claros, Don Fernando Giron and the Count of Gondomar to draw one up, and they laid a minute before the Council which did not meet with acceptance. However, they drew up another, which was sent to the English ministers, though it has not yet been given to the ambassador. It is understood to consist of vague and equivocal expressions which do not exclude hopes of the marriage, as they write from London that the king, on hearing the orders sent from here, said he would not shut the door against fresh negotiations and he did not despair of parliament approving them. The Spaniards announce, whether truly or falsely, that the English will be appeased easily and that the king there does not desire a rupture with them. Olivares and his partisans have not given up the desire or the purpose to take up the marriage negotiations again.
Madrid, the 2nd June, 1624.
Postscript.—Encloses a copy of the paper presented by the English Ambassador. They have given him their answer.
[Italian.]
Enclosed in
the preceding
despatch.
415. Paper presented by the English Ambassador.
Sir Walter Aston, Ambassador of the King of Great Britain, has to ask for more definiteness upon certain doubtful points in your Majesty's reply of the 9th January, which he sought in vain from your ambassadors. His Majesty, building upon the promises of your ministers that if the Palatine made submission he should be reinstated, undertook to bring him to reason.
He also understood that you would induce the emperor and his allies to consent. He accordingly stayed his hand in the hope of a friendly settlement. But while he was put off with frivolous pretexts, the Palatinate was invaded and the electorate conferred upon Bavaria. When he protested that he should consider further delay in fulfilling their promises, as a refusal, he was met with further delays and fresh conditions, namely that the Palatine's son shall be educated at the emperor's court, while they only speak of interceding with the emperor, the inefficacy of which is apparent. When he communicated all this to his Council of State they were unanimously of opinion that they must no longer put any confidence in these generalities and inconclusive replies; nevertheless, his Majesty, moved by his zeal for the welfare of Christendom and the preservation of peace in Germany, did not remain content with the advice of the Council alone, but summoned parliament, the representative body of England, and asked their advice whether he could confide in the last reply of your Majesty upon the restitution of the Palatinate or other treaties, and without a single dissentient voice they advised him to break off the treaties, both about the marriage and the Palatinate. To this he has consented, having discovered no example of a king who has refused to conform to the advice of his whole kingdom. He is therefore resolved to recover for his son-in-law and grandchildren what belongs to them, by the means that God will indicate. In this he hopes he will not encounter forces so unjust as to oppose such just claims, as he has deserved this from no one, least of all from your Majesty, as all the world and your Majesty also will bear witness to the affection and uprightness with which he has dealt with your Majesty in everything.
[Spanish.]
June 3.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Signori
Stati.
Venetian
Archives.
416. MARC ANTONIO MOROSINI, Venetian Ambassador in the Netherlands, to the DOGE and SENATE.
Various opinions about Spinola's movements. The Spaniards probably want to lull to sleep the Kings of England and France, as they know how lukewarm those monarchs are in helping these provinces, and by making no further attempt this year they hope to render them colder still, while gradually wearing down the Dutch. Rumours of a truce grow stronger and stronger. The last letters from London seem more hopeful, and they hope that the king there will maintain 6,000 foot in this service. They have heard nothing from their ambassadors in France this week, but they hope for good news soon.
Of the six Dunkirk ships attacked by eight Dutch ones, one ran aground, another was taken and the remaining four took refuge in England under the protection of an English royal ship. Here they are afraid that the English king will protect them and prevent their capture. They have therefore sent urgent letters to their ambassadors and ordered the commander of their eight ships not to abandon his post and to fight the enemy if they come out.
The Prince of Transylvania has written to the Prince Palatine and the Count della Torre to learn what they propose to do, and to enquire about the intentions of France, England, your Serenity, the Princes of Germany and all whom he considers likely to oppose the Austrians.
The Hague, the 3rd June, 1624.
[Italian; the part in italics deciphered.]
June 3.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Savoia.
Venetian
Archives.
417. LORENZO PARUTA. Venetian Ambassador in Savoy, to the DOGE and SENATE.
The duke told me about Mansfeld's arrival at Paris, the honours he had received in England and the proposal there to give him 10,000 foot and 3,000 horse to invade the dominions of the House of Austria and Bavaria and obtain the restitution of the Palatinate, with the suggestion that the league should supply an equal force to join his to serve the cause of the Grisons also. The duke remarked that the King of England would find 20,000 foot and 6,000 horse no great force to oppose to the Austrians, the Spaniards and the Catholic League, if it had to serve both Germany and Italy, and Mansfelt could not be in both places at once. Then again, if the pope saw Catholic princes uniting with heretics, he would leave them with the usual pretext of religion, and join the Spaniards. Thus, although he would not like England to join the league of France immediately, he would approve of a separate agreement, which would serve the same interests without England having any apparent share in the first arrangement and thus afford the pope an excuse for abandoning the allies on the score of religion.
Turin, the 3rd June, 1624.
[Italian; deciphered.]
June 4.
Senato,
Terra.
Venetian
Archives.
418. Grant of 12 ducats a month to Pier Antonio Marioni who has served in the courts of princes at great expense and with much devotion and ability.
Ayes, 128.Noes, 19.Neutral, 11.
On the 9th March in the Collegio.
Ayes, 16.Noes, 0.Neutral, 0.
[Italian.]
June 6.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Spagna.
Venetian
Archives.
419. ALVISE CORNER, Venetian Ambassador in Spain, to the DOGE and SENATE.
They have given their reply to the English ambassador, but he has not yet sent it to his king, because it consists of the usual generalities. (fn. 1) As it does not shut out the reopening of negotiations, they hope it will suffice, and they repose great confidence in the offices of the Earl of Bristol, who is reported not to be ill received, but this is doubted. The Ambassador of Germany asked for a copy of the reply. I think he has seen it, because in speaking with me about the arrest of the Archbishop of Spalato and condemning Gondomar's credulity, he remarked that when the prince came and the marriage negotiations were in progress, certain ministers were not clear about the proceedings of the English, and therefore the negotiations would probably suffer from delay, although as usual to carry them into effect would prove very difficult. The ambassador said this to me in the church of la Trinita. I know that he considered the negotiations could not be taken up again after the presentation of the paper, and began to display some activity for an alliance with the emperor's son. I fancy that he feigns doubt if they will resume the negotiations. (fn. 2)
Madrid, the 6th June, 1624.
[Italian.]
June 6.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Francia.
Venetian
Archives.
420. ZUANE PESARO, Venetian Ambassador in France, to the DOGE and SENATE.
The Duke of Angoulême has brought back Mansfeld's reply declining to receive the aid granted by the King of Great Britain unless he receives help from the Most Christian and the League. Besides the English succours he demands 200,000 crowns a month from the League, a heavy sum which may be greatly reduced. Mansfeld will accept an assurance from the English ambassadors. He asks for a conference with the Duke of Angoulê me, Wake and the ambassadors of your Serenity and Savoy. The Royal ministers approve of this, and it has been arranged that the count shall meet Wake at San Lis, eight leagues from Compiegne, to arrange for this conference. The count has been at Paris with Wake, not by arrangement. The Duke of Angoulême will manage the conference so that the king and ministers will not be offended. The chief object of the conference is to discover the intentions of England and persuade him that it is to their advantage to deal with the affairs of the Palatinate and the Grisons separately. Some wisely consider that the union will be stronger and more certain of success the greater the number of princes it embraces, and that operating openly in Germany and the Grisons will strike terror in the Spaniards and force them to terms. With France and England united there is no doubt about an accommodation, as the two kings would avoid mutual offence for their own sake. At present the Spaniards profit by negotiating separately, first with one and then with another. English forces in Germany and at sea would create a considerable diversion. The English seek an alliance, the French allow themselves to be led from one thing to another.
The Earl of Carlisle arrived the day before yesterday at Compiègne, where he is splendidly lodged and entertained, 500 crowns a day being allotted for his expenses. His coming is certainly welcome, desired by all, and there is a universal disposition for a union between the two kings. He was received with the usual honours, the Duke of Chevreuse meeting him, a task he readily undertook owing to his obligations and the kinship he claims with that monarch. The earl's negotiations are not yet disclosed, but your Excellencies shall hear as soon as possible.
They have arranged a pension of 2,000 crowns to the Duke of Lennox's eldest son, anciently paid by France to that house.
Bacq a Choysi, the 6th June, 1624.
[Italian; the part in italics deciphered.]
June 7.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Inghilterra.
Venetian
Archives.
421. ALVISE VALARESSO, enetian Ambassador in England, to the DOGE and SENATE.
The king has not yet signed the articles of the Dutch league. One wonders the less because this slow motion is now the usual thing. The reason he gives is that he must await the granting of the subsidy, out of which the soldiers must be paid. God grant this be not a pretext, as the subsidy is always certain if the king wishes the league. At all events the Dutch ambassadors consider it certain and conclusive, indeed they aspire to even more, namely to induce them to an offensive war by suitable arguments, and they even have some idea of getting the royal ships to unite with their own this year to stop the fleet.
The Spaniards either hope that the conclusion of the league will end in smoke, or minimise the effect of the help. They say that half the men will die in the first weeks, as is usual with the English, that such a large number of English should be suspect to the Dutch, as they already have 14,000 in their service; that if they make the levy it will take them some days to get the money, and that the league will only last a little while; although one of the articles says it shall be maintained for at least two years and shall not be denounced after their termination without six months' notice. The Spaniards also say that the kingdom will get rid of three of the greatest enemies they have, namely the Earls of Oxford, Southampton and Essex. It is certain that when Southampton desired the post for his son, and when that was refused, he had to receive it himself. The fourth colonel is still uncertain, although personally I believe the choice will fall upon the Earl of Murton, the Scotch nobleman, whom the king wants, though the English would not like it at all, so easily is the rivalry between these nations revived, and the English think it strange that any but themselves should enjoy the advantage of the money that they pay.
All these doubts will be finally resolved with the end of the parliament, as once this obstacle to the free movements of the king is removed, his real intentions will appear. However, three more weeks still remain of the ordinary term, as they call it, namely the days appointed for the judges, who, while the members of parliament remain in London, will produce almost the same consequences with respect to the king as the parliament itself. That body certainly closes to-morrow, and the king will deliver a speech, in the usual way, approving or rejecting the bills it has passed with the customary phrases, le Roy le veult ! for approval and le Roy se n'avisera! for refusal, a term adopted of old to avoid the always hateful sound of a negative. This will conclude the first session, and according to the general belief the parliament will reassemble for its second session at Michaelmas. But everything rests in the king's bosom and undoubtedly he is most anxious to see these sovereigns, little kings (regoli), as he calls them, dissolved; whose assembly diminishes the royal authority and whose body to some extent eclipses his own light.
The lower house decided that the subsidy should be collected in three instalments, namely in July, December and May. The conditions are that it shall be controlled by eight treasurers nominated by parliament, the wealthiest merchants of London, sworn upon the Bible, an obligation very highly esteemed here, not to pay it out except by order of the twelve Lords of the Council of War, who have to take a similar oath not to employ the money for anything except fortifying the realm, arming the fleet, strengthening Ireland and helping friends, the king desiring this general term without particularising the Dutch. Meanwhile everyone imagines that if the first instalment is all employed the other two will not be exacted. Despite all these precautions some still fear that the king will collect and spend all the money at his pleasure; without any one being able to make the least objection.
In the lower house the prince, who has already sworn not to conclude any marriage to the prejudice of his own religion, spoke recently about the laws against the Catholics, saying that the king in his prudence would see to this, which they did not much like. The Catholics accordingly cherish good hope, and the French Ambassador assures them that the marriage shall not be made except upon the conditions granted to the Spaniards. I have remarked to some of them that if the marriage with Madame proved hopeless, then any alliance with a Catholic princess would be equally so, to their serious prejudice, and they ought in their own interests to advance it prudently and skilfully. I also remarked to them that since the object of France in demanding high conditions was to help the Catholics, they should take heed lest in asking for what they could not get they should render the affair hopeless and ruin the Catholics.
London, the 7th June, 1624.
[Italian.]
June 7.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Inghilterra.
Venetian
Archives.
422. ALVISE VALARESSO, Venetian Ambassador in England, to the DOGE and SENATE.
The four Dunkirk ships are still blockaded by the Dutch. They say nothing about this to the Dutch Ambassadors, though they have some dealings with the Spaniards about it, Conovel having charge. I hear that the king proposes to give them two tides or twenty-four hours start to get away from the Dutch, or else to escort them with an English ship, but the Dutch will certainly refuse both propositions with good reason. Burlamachi has identified some of his plundered cannon on board, and that is sufficient to substantiate his claim for damages for all. But I do not know what will happen though I hear that the king wishes the Spaniards to compensate him. The ships have some 800 soldiers on board including many Irish, a circumstance that the Dutch Ambassadors have brought to the king's notice to rouse his suspicions and make him more willing to oblige them.
The Spanish Ambassadors have asked thrice for audience; the king has not granted one, upon various excuses. On the other hand the ambassadors have sent word that they claim to be dismissed, but the king refuses this also. I wish I could be sure there was no more than an appearance of enmity and that they were not secret friends. I know he has told them that he must needs do justice to Buckingham, and I feel sure that for some time there has been an intermediary from their embassy to keep up the negotiations. The rising of parliament will provide the Oedipus of this enigma and make everything clear.
Buckingham has no fever and is convalescent though very weak both in body and mind. Yesterday the king came to see him and to-day he took him to Greenwich against the advice of the physicians, but in any case the office of the Spaniards must have created a bad impression against him. The ambassadors also conveyed to the king a book about the authority of parliament, containing something about the power of deposing kings, and another called Mercury, like the Gazetter of Italy, containing the news of the world, printed in Germany, stating that Bucking- ham had upset the prince's marriage with the object of marrying his own daughter to the Palatine's eldest son, such good use do they make of every opportunity, and perhaps the news was printed with them in view. The Spaniards announce here a disadvantageous peace made by Gabor with the emperor, and that Spinola will not come out this year, both with the object of delaying the help to the Dutch and destroying the hope of that diversion.
Weston, considered of Spanish sympathies although a great friend of the prince, is acting as deputy for the vacant treasurer-ship. He is also a friend of the deposed Earl of Middlesex. Some take this as an indication that the latter may rise again; I hear he hopes so, and I fancy the king considered himself hurt by his deposition. They have decided nothing about Bristol, but various things are discussed.
News reaches the Court of the very great honours rendered to the Ambassador Carlisle on his way. The Council or Commission on French affairs are the same five as for the negotiations with the Dutch. Mansfelt has written nothing since the advices from Boulogne. I am sorry, because this silence will certainly injure his affairs. Everyone here has rejoiced at the news of the imprisonment of the Archbishop of Spalato, and they laugh about it. Next week I shall go to audience for the reasons given.
The Ambassador Pesaro asked me some days ago how I bore myself towards the Dutch ambassadors, who are and who were here. I told him that all of them without exception styled me Excellency, while I addressed them in the third person.
London, the 7th June, 1624.
[Italian; the part in italics deciphered.]
June 8.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Savoia.
Venetian
Archives.
423. LORENZO PARUTA, Venetian Ambassador in Savoy, to the DOGE and SENATE.
On the arrival of the despatch from the Ambassador Pesaro, I immediately asked for audience of the duke. He listened to the news I imparted, and then sent for Crotti who produced the proposals made at a meeting between his ambassadors and the French ministers. Among other things they stated that if Mansfelt was employed it must be in England's name, under the pretext of recovering the Palatinate, so that the Spaniards and the pope might imagine that the restitution of the Valtelline and the recovery of the Palatinate were two distinct affairs, but once the former was obtained his Majesty could attend to the latter. As regards a diversion by Mansfelt in England's name, the others should not enter into any treaty with England whereby that king might claim that the affair of the Valtelline was bound up with that of the Palatinate.
In discussing these articles the duke said that if France made arrangements with England and Mansfelt for the sake of the Palatinate, we had little concern with them. I remarked that we might supply something quietly to Mansfelt, but we ought not to commit ourselves to anything definite.
Turin, the 8th June, 1624.
[Italian; deciphered.]
Enclosed
in the
preceding
despatch.
424. Proposals made by the King to Mansfelt.
1st. If possible the King of England will make a diversion for the Palatinate in Alsace when the League does the like for the Grisons, and in this manner both sides will obtain their purpose without open negotiations, and this within a month. 2nd. If the first does not succeed, if the King of England will not bear all the expense, the League will contribute a portion for the Valtelline only without breaking with the King of England, but by arrangement with Mansfelt to be carried out in Alsace and other suitable places for the valley, always using Mansfelt and his force for the recovery of the Grisons, upon condition that the King of England gives his name to the force for the recovery of the Palatinate, and that the succour of the League be covert.
[Italian; deciphered.]
June 8.
Misc.
Cod. No. 63.
Venetian
Archives.
425. MARC' ANTONIO PADAVIN, Venetian Secretary in Germany, to the DOGE and SENATE.
The Count of Fristembergh has gone to Munich to learn the views of the Duke of Bavaria about the settlement of the empire. He will try and induce him to accept some compromise which will permit the meeting of an Imperial Diet. The duke absolutely denies that the Capuchin who went to England and is now at the Hague with the Palatine, (fn. 3) is acting by his order or with his consent in treating for an accommodation. There is some rumour that the Most Christian is sending M. de Marescot to Munich to arrange a settlement with the Palatine. (fn. 4) This creates some uneasiness here, but they cannot believe that Bavaria will ever desert the House of Austria, both because of what he has acquired and of the dissensions among the Protestant princes.
Vienna, 8th June, 1624.
[Italian; copy.]
June 8.
Misc.
Cod. No. 63.
Venetian
Archives.
426. MARC ANTONIO PADAVIN, Venetian Secretary in Germany, to the DOGE and SENATE.
They are thinking of opening fresh negotiations with England about the Palatinate, but always with the object of gaining time and insisting upon the vote remaining with a Catholic, following the example of Charles V, when he took the vote from the Saxon princes. But this precedent does not apply as in this case the vote was given to a member of the same house, while Bavaria is only a very distant connection of the Palatine.
They write from Brussels that the Spanish ambassadors in England have been recalled by their king. They add that Mansfelt left London honoured by all, especially the Prince, and is going towards Genoa. Letters from another quarter state that France and England are cooling towards one another, instead of the good understanding and alliance which they feared might take place, France having objected to the ill-treatment of the Catholics in England.
Vienna, the 8th June, 1624.
[Italian; copy.]
June 9.
Cinque Savii
alla
Mercanzia.
Capitolare VII.
(30).
Venetian
Archives.
427. To the Proveditore of Cephalonia.
The Senate has decided to adopt the reply made by the Five Sages to your letter of the 22nd April about the new impost. They will at once appoint the inspector and two wardens for this duty to prevent the disorders which arise from having elective officials only. The purchaser must always pay the duty and you will forbid the vendors to pay it under penalties which you will fix, payment being made in the Chamber.
The question of settling the value of ryals has been referred for further consideration. As regards kerseys and cloth, we do not wish it paid as hitherto has been fraudulently done, by the piece or hundred, but in future the pieces shall be stamped by two chiefs and the custom paid then, and all cloth found without the stamp shall be considered ipso facto contraband and confiscated. You will cause this to be proclaimed and also notified to the ships which arrive. You will take similar measures with the tin, lead and other merchandise subject to the same duty.
You will also keep an exact account of all the raisins gathered, showing the grantity that comes into the hands of the buyers, such account, with others, of the cloth, tin and other things discharged from ships shall be sent by you to the Five Sages from time to time. You will employ the new officials to keep these accounts.
That a copy of the above be sent to the Proveditore of Zante.
That the Five Sages be directed to send these new officials to Zante and Cephalonia, arranging for reasonable salaries to be paid out of the duties aforesaid.
[Italian.]
June 10.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Costantinopoli.
Venetian
Archives.
428. ZORZI GIUSTINIAN, Venetian Ambassador at Constantinople, to the DOGE and SENATE.
I have been to complain to the Captain Pasha of the excesses committed by the pirates at Saline and Alexandretta. Owing to the news of such events all four of us ambassadors have met together recently to try and arrange some effective remedy. We decided to go together to the Caimecam, Mufti and Captain Pasha and make a final attempt to get an arz into the Sultan's own hands, whereby we hope to make a great impression upon him.
In the same arz we propose to speak of the excesses of the Emirs against our merchants here and everywhere else in the empire. The rumour of our intentions to appeal direct to the Sultan has made the Emirs more moderate towards the merchants, whereas before they claimed to largely increase the duties on goods on the ground of the constantly increasing value of money.
The Vigne of Pera, the 10th June, 1624.
[Italian; deciphered.]
June 10.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Signori
Stati.
Venetian
Archives.
429. MARC ANTONIO MORESINI, Venetian Ambassador in the Netherlands, to the DOGE and SENATE.
They are still awaiting the decisions of France and England, but as these tarry and as their necessities constantly increase, the Council of Holland has decided to raise money, imposing new taxes, which have caused much discontent.
Two days ago Guisberg, who came here as ambassador for the Elector of Cologne, arrived incognito. He said he was only on his way to his estates in Guelderland, but I doubted that he might intend to profit by the existing discontent in order to suggest a truce. Accordingly, so soon as I knew of his arrival, I communicated my idea to the Prince of Orange, the English ambassador and some others, urging them to dismiss him. The ambassador took up the matter zealously, and the prince told Guisberg that he must go back if he came to speak about a truce.
The Hague, the 10th June, 1624.
[Italian; deciphered.]

Footnotes

1 The reply, in Spanish, is among the State Papers, Foreign, Spain, for June, 1624.
2 See Khevenhuller: Annales Ferdinandi, vol. x, 418–421.
3 Francesco della Rota.
4 "There hath been a speech of Marescott's going to Bavaria for the French king, but Vieuville gives assurance that there is no such matter." Despatch of Kensington of the 16th May, State Papers, Foreign, France.