Venice
August 1624, 2-15

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Institute of Historical Research

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Allen B. Hinds (editor)

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1912

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404-413

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'Venice: August 1624, 2-15', Calendar of State Papers Relating to English Affairs in the Archives of Venice, Volume 18: 1623-1625 (1912), pp. 404-413. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=88917 Date accessed: 28 July 2014.


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August 1624

Aug. 2.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Inghilterra.
Venetian
Archives.
524. ALVISE VALARESSO, Venetian Ambassador in England, to the DOGE and SENATE.
Fresh letters have reached the Ambassador Fiat from France; I have not yet discovered what commissions they bring, but I fancy that they direct his negotiations upon some particular point. The ambassador has stayed here in the city some days in order to hear and persuade the Catholics. I understand he has spoken to them as I wrote and it does not please many of them. In two days he will start off after the king, who left on Saturday, as I wrote, and may perhaps follow the entire progress, as he would himself like, or stay only some days to negotiate in places with good quarters, as his Majesty would prefer.
The Ambassador Kensington says he may leave any day, but although he has bidden farewell at Court he has not as yet received his despatch so far as I know; though he expects it any moment. Thus things proceed very slowly. And yet the French ambassador spoke to me about a dispensation received, that they would not be utterly tied to Rome, that they were shaking off Spanish domination and in short they were resting content with reasonable advantages for religion. Kensington on his side assures me that here they will recede from their first rigour and will not introduce anything fresh against the Catholics, and once they have the dispensation all will be done. But I do not think the facts altogether correspond with this. Certainly the prince recently spoke of the marriage as of a thing already arranged and even wrote about it to his sister, the Queen of Bohemia. Buckingham seems very confident about it. Carlisle advises his friend that it will certainly take place, and Kensington spoke of it to me in terms of the highest hope.
Things now seem to have cooled somewhat. Buckingham spoke of it in a very languid manner to an intimate, and I myself recently saw Kensington very melancholy. If the reason for this be not some obstacle from Rome it will be a difference between the aims of France and England, the latter wanting the marriage and war while the former seems to want one without the other. But personally I fear that the greatest difficulty of all is in the evil disposition of the king, who would either rejoice at the breaking off of the negotiations or at least certainly desires delay. A great lord who holds a high place in the king's favour spoke to me to this effect, and so there would be little hope of a favourable issue unless one may believe that the silent force which has driven and almost dragged him to decide on a parliament, to the league with the Dutch and to other similar things, does not also drive him to this present marriage.
The prince and Buckingham still keep the king in a sort of mild state of siege, so that for want of communication with evil instruments he may be practically compelled to depend upon their wishes.
The household and people of the Count of Tillieres, still stay on here, an argument with some, though a doubtful one, that he may come back. Kensington in discussing his return with me, said that the king would be glad to see him, while on the other hand he did not conceal from me that the count was too much of a Jesuit. In any event I feel sure that Fiat will continue ambassador in ordinary.
Mansfelt's secretary recently made three requests of Buckingham. He asked him to decide whether they would employ his master this year; if his employment fell through he should give back the papers which he had from the king so that he might recover his own from Carlisle, and lastly that he might have leave to betake himself to this kingdom, seeing that the marriage was long in coming about. To the first Buckingham replied that he despaired of being able to employ him this year, the season being so far advanced; to the second that he would give orders for giving back and receiving the papers, and to the third that he should stop a while in France, where they would look after him, and he could afterwards retire here. I thought it wise to advise the secretary to be patient both in waiting a while in France and in retaining the papers, so as not to upset matters and in order to give no pretext for any separation between the two crowns. For the rest I tried to confirm his resolution to withdraw to England, adducing among other reasons that here owing to his military reputation he would stand alone as a commander, and so I think that is settled.
All the troops for Holland are embarked, the colonels leave in two days; they are taking some gentlemen adventurers there and there are two lords among the private captains. The complaint of the merchants here against the Dutch gather force and one hears the worst reports about what has happened at the Moluccas in the West Indies. They say that the Englishmen who were charged with high treason should, by the terms of their agreement with the Dutch, have been sent for trial here. It was not likely that so few would have attempted so great an enterprise; they make the most of the torture to which they were submitted in order to extort a lie, and insist that it is all intended to frighten the English and make them abandon that trade altogether, leaving the Dutch alone in possession. In short they all seem moved. The king himself has written very strongly to the States on the subject, and recently redoubled his complaints, adopting a very lofty tone, giving them the present month in which to afford satisfaction. Accordingly, unless they decide to render justice, matters may turn out badly. I will not neglect any effort to soothe the parties by various arguments, urging the Ambassador Caron to write to his masters as I am doing to the Ambassador Contarini. There are also the old disputes about the whale fisheries of Greenland, which were never satisfactorily settled in the past and are now reviving. In short, there is no lack of fuel for this fire, unless the water of prudence is brought to extinguish it.
I have finally obtained that Tosi shall be paid one half of his debt in a few days, and I hope he will have the other half before I leave, although they tell me at Christmas only. Certainly in the present shortness of money exactions are almost impossible, as they make full use of the decree that the money of the subsidy must not be touched except for the objects designated by parliament. I am trying to hasten a settlement of the business of the raisins and once that is done with, I shall deal with the Murano glass, so that it may freely be brought here, adducing the perfectly sound arguments that they have no finer or cheaper ware and they will save wood of which the country feels the scarcity. I hope for success in this also, as I spoke earnestly on the subject to the Secretary Conovel, who stayed on here two days after his Majesty's departure. In order to urge him to remind the king of this affair as well as that of the raisins according to the promise made to me, I have thought fit to send one of my gentlemen with orders to follow the Court until the necessary acts are performed, in order to ensure the results, and I shall consider the trouble and the few crowns expended on this business very well employed.
London, the 2nd August, 1624.
Postscript.—A chaplain of the Ambassador Colonna has been detained somehow at the coast. (fn. 1) News has come of Spinola's death. I now hear that Kensington will certainly leave on Tuesday, taking with him the articles agreed upon, which concern religion.
[Italian; the part in italics deciphered.]
Aug. 2.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Francia.
Venetian
Archives.
525. ZUANE PESARO and MARC ANTONIO MORESINI, Venetian Ambassadors in France, to the DOGE and SENATE.
Lord Rich is expected back from England and they make sure that he will bring all necessary powers for concluding the marriage. The interview between the Earl of Carlisle and the Spanish ambassador was rather to offer the compliments of the Count of Olivares than for more important business, though hints may lead to something more practical.
Paris, the 2nd August, 1624.
[Italian.]
Aug. 2.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Francia.
Venetian
Archives.
526. ZUANE PESARO and MARC ANTONIO MORESINI, Venetian Ambassadors in France, to the DOGE and SENATE.
The first quarrel between la Vieville and Cardinal Richelieu arose because Lord Rich was sent off about the religious matter without the Cardinal's consent, he having communications with the Count of Tillieres, then ambassador, to uphold the interests of the Catholics. But some well informed people think that the Cardinal merely wished to cover himself in this and throw the blame on the Marquis. Just as the French have wisely laid upon the earl of Carlisle the blame of the removal of their own ambassador as being too zealous for the Catholics, although it all happened contrary to his wishes for reasons which I have reported.
The papal nuncio has strongly urged his Majesty to interpose in favour of these Catholics and not allow the marriage negotiations to bring them such serious harm, by persecution and the enforcement of the laws. The English excuse what is being done by the necessity of quiet in the kingdom, and that in order to oblige France it is necessary to demonstrate that advantages for the Catholics do not depend upon negotiations with Spain, but with the French marriage every possible concession will be made Nevertheless the king has sent a special courier to remonstrate strongly upon the prejudice done to his honour and conscience, and say that continued persecution may break off all negotiations.
Paris, the 2nd August, 1624.
[Italian.]
Aug. 8.
Senato,
Secreta.
Deliberazioni,
Roma.
Venetian
Archives.
527. To the Ambassador at the Hague.
You will do your utmost to encourage the States in their generous ideas. There are in their service at present Lieutenant Colonels Filippo Toriner and John Vere, in our pay and bound to come when required by our state. You will give them notice to come as we need their services. You will also notify Sig. Giovanni Martinengo and Colonel Obentraut.
Ayes, 134.Noes, 1.Neutral, 3.
[Italian.]
Aug. 3.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Firenze.
Venetian
Archives.
528. VALERIO ANTELMI, Venetian Secretary at Florence, to the DOGE and SENATE.
We hear from Genoa that the Spaniards are hurrying to put their galleons in order as they fear a fresh junction between the Dutch and English fleets.
The Most Christian has written to the King of Spain that he has opened negotiations for marrying his sister to the Prince of Wales after learning that all negotiations for the Infanta had ceased, that Inoiosa had left England and was already arrived at Brussels. This office, which is as much for the confusion of the Spaniards as for a compliment, clearly shows that the Most Christian has the conclusion of the marriage in his hands and that any delay in its announcement is due to a feeling for decorum rather than to any difficulties.
Here also they begin to recognise that this marriage will bring about great changes, and I hear that they have commended themselves to the protection of the queen-mother, confiding in her affection for this house and the influence she still enjoys in France.
Florence, the 3rd August, 1624.
[Italian.]
Aug. 4.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Firenze.
Venetian
Archives.
529. LUNARDO MORO, Venetian Ambassador in Spain, to the DOGE and SENATE.
Since the arrival of the English ambassador's secretary, who came by the posts from England these last days, without the orders he brings transpiring, we have noticed that the ambassador has sometimes called upon the ministers. I hear from several quarters that in talking of other matters he incidentally let fall something about the marriage, as if from himself inferring that the reply given to his king did not necessarily exclude all negotiation. We do not hear that they gave him any answer or that they have any intention here of taking up the matter again. They state indeed that the Infanta Maria is destined for the Emperor's son, although some say that the Emperor leans greatly to the Princess of Mantua.
The President of Flanders, one of the Councillors of State, will send one of his secretaries to England in a few days about these by order of the Council. Those who profess to know say that it is not about the marriage and still less for trade, and if it is about the Palatinate success will be very difficult. (fn. 2)
The Ambassador of Denmark entered the Court very quietly five days ago. His principal business is about trade between his kingdom and this, and more important still to have Poland included, a trade that has greatly enriched the Dutch. If Poland concurs it would be a great matter, and the Hanse towns, the Dutch and the English would oppose it strongly, as it would strike a mortal blow at their old trade by caravan fleets once or twice a year. I will keep my eyes open to observe these very important negotiations.
Some say that this ambassador also has commissions to reconcile the King of England with this crown; this also will become clear in a few days.
Madrid, the 4th August, 1624.
[Italian.]
Aug. 5.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Costantinopoli.
Venetian
Archives.
530. ZORZI GIUSTINIAN, Venetian Ambassador at Constantinople, to the DOGE and SENATE.
I sent to the French ambassador to learn if his last despatches brought the orders he is expecting about his dispute with England, so that we can all four go to present our arz to the Sultan. He sent word that he would come and see me. I shall keep up the pressure upon him and neglect no means to obtain a favourable result.
The Vigne of Pera, the 5th August, 1624.
[Italian; deciphered.]
Aug. 5.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Signori
Stati.
Venetian
Archives.
531. ALVISE CONTARINI, Venetian Ambassador in the Netherlands, to the DOGE and SENATE.
The Prince of Orange has communicated to the English ambassador and me some letters intercepted from the Spanish camp, describing a great scarcity of everything and very high prices.
Although the English troops, who have arrived to the number of some 2,000, are very welcome yet they cause this government much anxiety from the fear that they may not be paid. But orders have come this week to Calandrini, to pay 100,000 florins on the 1st prox.; parliament having undertaken to pay 25,000l. every three months. The same letters announce the approaching departure of the four colonels with the rest of the troops, who are now eagerly awaited, without the former misgivings.
The English ambassador insists more than ever upon the punishment of the Governor of Amboyna, but the Dutch only want to gain time. By way of doing something they have added four deputies to the India Company, ordering them to collect all the papers and instructions on the subject and lay them before the States General, who will decide. Meanwhile many incline to satisfy the ambassador while others support the Governor, especially those with business or interests in the Indies, who form the majority.
The Hague, the 5th August, 1624.
[Italian; the part in italics deciphered.]
Aug. 7.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Spagna.
Venetian
Archives.
532. LUNARDO MORO, Venetian Ambassador in Spain, to the DOGE and SENATE.
The Ambassador of Denmark is a man who knows the world. He has been in Italy and was here in Spain twelve years ago with another ambassador. (fn. 3) He has not uttered a word to reveal his business, but I have gathered it from his household and from the ambassador of Germany, confirming that it is about this trade, at which the Dutch have taken great alarm, and he may also raise the question of the Palatinate, though that is not his chief object.
The Secretary of the President of Flanders will undoubtedly leave in a day or two by the posts for Flanders and England. More important still, I find that they propose to send to Germany and England either the Marquis of Monte Claro, of the Council of State and President of the Council of Azienda, a man of affairs and the sword, one of the most valued men in the state, or the Count of Lemos, whom I have previously described. The reason cannot be discovered, but it must be about the Palatinate. Time will show.
Madrid, the 7th August, 1624.
[Italian.]
Aug. 9.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Inghilterra.
Venetian
Archives.
533. ALVISE VALARESSO, Venetian Ambassador in England, to the DOGE and SENATE.
The Ambassador Fiat and I have exchanged visits and he repeated his sound opinions. The questions we discussed may be grouped under three heads, which I call masters in the present affair; that as much as possible ought to be done for the Catholic religion, on the ground of conscience and reputation. After doing as much as possible for this, they ought certainly to embrace the alliance with England, as it means so much for the public interests, and thirdly, that while showing due regard and obedience to the pope, they should not forget to remind him of the privileges of the Gallican Church or to use them if need be. The reiteration of these ideas by such a minister make it probable that such are also the maxims of the government in France. I perceive some ambiguity, not to say contradiction in them, about the dispensation, as now they speak of it as to be granted and now as granted. Thus he spoke to me recently as if he were doubtful about the real feelings of the pope towards the Most Christian, although he concluded that for numerous reasons the pope could not help being French. Apropos of the dispensation, I thought fit to tell him what the Spanish ambassador here had said about it that they are preparing to oppose it strongly, so that France may not obtain it and break the friendship with the pope. The ambassador hinted that he had heard this particular before and had advised his master. The Jesuits, after their wont, are trying to insinuate themselves into the favour of this ambassador. The Provincial paid him a visit and stayed long in conversation, and they will neglect no device to gain him. The ambassador promised the agent of the Palatine every assistance for the interests of that prince, having received express commands to do so from the Most Christian. He left four days ago to join the king on his progress, but it is doubtful yet whether he will accompany him all the time or only stay a few days. As he was leaving he heard something about the owner of the palace where he was staying, namely the Earl of Suffolk, proposing to go back there, to get him out of it in his absence, under the pretext of treating himself for some indisposition. This respect might recall the ambassador more quickly to town. The last letters which reached him from France by a private individual, bring word as I know for certain that he must urge the king's return, and it seems that from this hour the whole business is pending in that Court.
Kensington has been made Earl of Holland, an English district that owes its name to its resemblance to the Dutch province. In addition he receives an income in land of more than 2,000 crowns, out of which he will find the money, so this proves that the need of money, among other causes, sent him away from here. They do not yet mention any particular day for his departure, although I am assured that he has his despatch and the articles are agreed. There are three additional ones upon the ones granted to the Spaniards, and two of them are the education of the children until their thirteenth year, and a number of twenty-eight priests for Madame's chapel. If his expedition is so favourable, I think they should show more haste. I hear from some that certain particular interests are detaining this minister; God grant it be not the hidden force of some powerful remora. (fn. 4) The people of Tillières remain on without any fresh orders to leave. If this is an indication of his returning, it is a bad sign for the marriage.
The information against the Catholics is commanded and begun, though they have delayed enforcement until the ordinary time of the sessions. Some sacred articles such as missals and ornaments have been burned. But everything is exaggerated by report and the Spaniards exaggerate the reports. The French themselves seem to hope that the king means to give back everything to France.
Mansfeld's secretary left three days ago. The cold reception given to his suggestion of the count's retiring hither disgusted him greatly; but I encourage him pointing out that not to refuse is to grant, and the express negative sent before did not at all prevent his being welcomed even when he came against their wishes.
The Earl of Essex has left for Holland, the other three colonels are leaving. The soldiers willing to serve surpass the requirements of the levy. Colonna's Spanish priest, detained as I reported, was subsequently released, it being claimed that the way always remained open to any religious who wished to leave.
I have received the ducal missives of the 6th July. From my gentleman following the Court I hear that this Secretary Conovel has promised in the king's name that the glass of Murano shall be allowed to come freely and orders upon this as well as upon the raisins will be given to the Council. I would rather it could have been done without them, although it is unlikely they will do anything but follow the king's wishes. I will do everything to get them to meet.
London, the 9th August, 1624.
Postscript.—Intercepted letters written to the Marquis Inoiosa have been sent to the king by his ambassador at the Hague, suggesting some machination by him against this kingdom. I have just received a letter from the Secretary Conway and am assured that Kensington is leaving for France by the post.
[Italian.]
Enclosed in
the preceding
despatch.
534. Copy of Letter from Edward Conway to the Venetian Ambassador
Sir.—Led by your Excellency's arguments, his Majesty has thought fit to allow glass of Murano to come freely to his realm. His Majesty has given orders to six Lords of his Council for the expedition of this affair and that of the raisins, promised verbally by him, and they will do what is necessary.
Kirby, the 27th July, 1624.
[Italian.]
Aug. 10.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Roma.
Venetian
Archives.
535. PIERO CONTARINI, Venetian Ambassador at Rome, to the DOGE and SENATE.
In an extraordinary audience which Bethune had of the pope on Monday about the dispensations for the English marriage, he said nothing about the Valtelline.
Rome, the 10th August, 1624.
[Italian.]
Aug. 12.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Signori
Stati.
Venetian
Archives.
536. ALVISE CONTARINI, Venetian Ambassador in the Netherlands, to the DOGE and SENATE.
Prince Henry has come out from Rees and is ready to follow the movements of the enemy. His force has been increased owing to their dividing the English among the fortresses, twenty-nine companies of these having now arrived, making a total of about 4,000.
Letters from Germany report Saxony's consent to Bavaria having the electoral vote. This has made a great impression upon all, and the king feels it very bitterly, so much so that he could not keep back his tears when telling me.
The Hague, the 12th August, 1624.
[Italian; the part in italics deciphered.]
Aug. 14.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Spagna.
Venetian
Archives.
537. LUNARDO MORO, Venetian Ambassador in Spain, to the DOGE and SENATE.
The instructions brought to the ambassador from England by his secretary reached him a few days ago, as I reported. He was to remonstrate strongly with the king and Council about the imputations laid by his Majesty's ambassadors upon the Duke of Buckingham and the prince himself, imparting his king's decision not to admit either of those ministers to his presence again and asking for their removal and punishment as well, stating that they would not prove their charge, produce witnesses or indicate accomplices. His Majesty by careful examination discovered the whole thing to be a calumny. There was no punishment they did not deserve, and when the Marquis of Linoiosa asked for audience the king refused it, referring him to one of his secretaries or Councillors. But the marquis, declaring he had instructions to speak to the king alone, left without saying anything. The King of Great Britain did not wish his friendly relations with this crown to be disturbed by the incident. The ambassador performed the office verbally and also presented a very diffuse memorial, a copy of which I enclose.
One thing causes surprise, that the king has only just remonstrated here, and he has probably only done this in order to satisfy the prince and Buckingham in appearance, but really to open further negotiations and to make sure of the friendship of this crown, about which he is very doubtful.
They have not yet made any reply to the remonstrances, but I understand that the ministers for the most part severely blame the action of the ambassadors, declaring it contrary to his Majesty's intentions.
The secretary sent by the President of Flanders is going to reside in that kingdom until the arrival of a new ambassador. I hear they have appointed as ordinary Don Diego Curtado de Mendozza, who accompanied the prince when he left here. The rumour of the despatch of important personages to Germany and England about the Palatinate is confirmed, though they have not yet come to any decision.
Madrid, the 14th August, 1624.
[Italian.]
Enclosed in
the preceding
despatch.
538. Memorial presented by Sir Walter Aston, ambassador of the King of Great Britain, about the false accusations made by the Marquis of Inoiosa and Don Carlos Colonna against the Duke of Buckingham and the Prince of Wales.
[Spanish; 2 pages.]
Aug. 15.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Francia.
Venetian
Archives.
539. ZUANE PESARO and MARC ANTONIO MORESINI, Venetian Ambassadors in France, to the DOGE and SENATE.
Lord Rich has returned and the two ambassadors went together to see the king. The news is reported excellent, that the king there has consented to the marriage and to everything that France desires. But it is not certain whether they will now agree to the religious arrangements accepted by Vieville. However, the marriage is so strongly desired and so necessary that most people hope it will be arranged.
Poissy, the 15th August, 1624.
[Italian.]

Footnotes

1 There is an order, dated July 22nd, old style, for the release of Don Francisco de Colomandela, one of Coloma's gentlemen, who had long been wth the ambassador and was arrested at Dover. Cal. S.P. Dom., 1623–5, page 309.
2 The secretary sent was Jacques Bruneau. See his letter from London dated the 6th Oct., State Papers, Foreign, Spain.
3 It would seem therefore that he was Christian Friis, Grand Chancellor of Denmark, who went as ambassador to Spain in 1613. Vol. XII of this Calendar, page 547.
4 The sea lamprey or sucking-fish supposed to stay the course of a ship to which it adhered. Oxford Eng. Dict.