Venice
November 1624, 16-30

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Institute of Historical Research

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Allen B. Hinds (editor)

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1912

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486-502

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'Venice: November 1624, 16-30', Calendar of State Papers Relating to English Affairs in the Archives of Venice, Volume 18: 1623-1625 (1912), pp. 486-502. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=88923 Date accessed: 25 July 2014.


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November 1624

Nov. 16.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Francia.
Venetian
Archives.
661. MARC' ANTONIO MOROSINI, Venetian Ambassador in France, to the DOGE and SENATE.
Conversation at this Court turns chiefly upon the marriage and the negotiations with England, which still remain in suspense and incline to grow worse. They see through the conduct of the English ambassadors, who expected to compel the ministers to concede everything at the mere threat that the marriage should not be made except upon such conditions, and indeed they found the true way to obtain their desires since everybody desires the marriage exceedingly. The Queen Mother wants it more than anyone, and so does the cardinal in consequence. Madame already styles herself bride of the Prince of England and future queen of the two kingdoms. She is impatient of all delay and constantly importunes her mother and brother to bring it to a conclusion. But the ministers are so piqued at the behaviour and pretensions of the ambassadors that they have not hesitated to announce that the Prince of Wales ought to desire the King of France's sister to wife as the king to marry her to the prince. As their final resolution, they told the ambassadors that they would willingly support Mansfelt for six months, and the king would promise not to listen to any proposal or treaty prejudicial to the Palatine and would always act for his advantage in any way he thought proper. The ambassadors complained bitterly of this reply, declaring that it amounted to a withdrawal of what they had recently professed, and the third point required amplification, as such a declaration might be interpreted in various ways. Such ambiguity would be unnecessary if they really meant to work whole-heartedly for the Palatine. Such a way of speaking excited suspicion. Their king could not feel sure that all might not be spoiled. They had the satisfaction of knowing that they had done everything possible on their side and worked hard for a happy result, and if the matter fell through it would not be their fault. Finally, the Earl of Carlisle said they would give up the written word and accept a verbal promise.
The Council, however, did not budge and stood firmly by their original proposal. I feel sure that everything will be arranged, since the marriage is too important to both parties.
At the last Council the ministers proposed to arm Mansfelt promptly without England's help, to show the ambassadors how little the breaking off of the negotiations would matter, and they decided to do it. They propose to give him the soldiers who have deserted from the Spanish force and who are at Metz. He could go to Flanders and relieve Breda and then proceed to Alsace to help the Marquis of Coure.
Paris, the 16th November, 1624.
[Italian; the part in italics deciphered.]
Nov. 17.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Francia.
Venetian
Archives.
662. MARC' ANTONIO MOROSINI, Venetian Ambassador in France, to the DOGE and SENATE.
At this moment, two hours after midnight, the Earl of Carlisle has sent to tell me that the secretary whom he expected from England has arrived with the replies, and he wished to inform me of the substance of his despatch, which would please me. I tried to learn the particulars from his esquire, but he told me he knew no more. I will send the particulars in my next despatch.
Paris, the 17th November, 1624.
[Italian.]
Nov. 18.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Signori
Stati.
Venetian
Archives.
663. ALVISE CONTARINI, Venetian Ambassador in the Netherlands, to the DOGE and SENATE.
I have written strongly to Lieutenant Colonels Tinen and Vere to induce them to obey and fulfil their obligations. I enclose their letters, in which you will see the pretexts and jesting terms with which they try to cover their fault. I hear from several quarters that your Excellencies can expect little from them and they will not come to serve.
The Hague, the 18th November, 1624.
[Italian; deciphered.]
Nov. 18.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Signori
Stati.
Venetian
Archives.
664. ALVISE CONTARINI, Venetian Ambassador in the Netherlands, to the DOGE and SENATE.
Encloses reply of the Elector of Saxony to the Ambassador Anstruther. The ministers of the Palatine here have letters written some weeks ago by the emperor to the Duke of Naiburgh, giving him hopes of the electoral vote of the Rhine if the Bavarian line becomes extinct. This shows that the announcement that it was granted to the present duke for life only is merely a pretence.
Mansfelt sailed from Flushing for England on Monday, the 11th inst. After two hours the ship ran aground. The count and a few others escaped in a small boat; the rest perished miserably. Rotta also escaped. He says that Mansfelt escaped and passed to England, news confirmed by the Ambassador Carleton. (fn. 1)
The Hague, the 18th November, 1624.
[Italian; the part in italics deciphered.]
Enclosed in
the preceding
despatch.
665. Sermi. ac Potentissimi Principis etc. Jacobi, Magnae Britanniae etc. Regis decretam legationem. Ser. Princeps Johannes Georgius Saxoniae etc. Dux etc. etc. a Regiae Seren. amplissimo Domino Legato ac Camerario Ruberto Ansdrudero, Eq. aureato non solum oretenus in tributa ipsi personali audientia, sed ex petito etiam ab eodem porrectoque memoriali plenissime intellexit, rebusque in maturam deliberationem adhibitis, hoc Regia Ser. Sua pro intentionis declaratione respondendum duxit. Initio Regia Serti. Ser. Elector uberes agit gratias quod ipsum per tam honorificam legationem invisere, et, cum prolixa Regiae benevolentiae oblatione antiqueæ necessitudinis et singularis sui amoris certiorem reddere simulque ea quae circa Electoratus Palatini restitutionem ad praehabitam Regii Parlamenti consultationem visa, et decreta fuere, edocere; ejusdem denique sententiam et consilium desuper petere voluerit. Regiam Sertam. Ser. Elector vicissim plurima impertit salute eique studia sua offert semper prompta parata. Et quemadmodum peculiaris illius conjuntionis, fidei et amicitiae quae inde ab utriusque partis laudatissimis predecessoribus in posteros promanavit optime adhuc meminit, nihilque in sese desiderari passus est hactenus quo ea integra et illibata conservaretur: ita aliter facere non potest quin eo omne studium et industriam suam conferat, ut posthac etiam constantissime colatur, et ad seros nepotes propagetur. Siquidem Sermo. Electori unice cordi est, ne suo cum consensu aliquid fiat quod Regia Ser. animum aliqua in parte ab se abalienare possit. Quod superest a Deo Ter Opt. Max. vitam maxime longevam exoptatissimam valetudinem et prosperrimum regimen ex animo precatur.
Ceterum sacri Rom. Imperii perturbatissimus status Ser. Electori satis superque notus, nec hujus loci est sigillatim recensere causas quae in hujusmodi angustias illud deduxerunt cum nihil tam tristi commemoratione proficiatur, et longe melius sit, missis praeteritis ad praesentia et futura animum advertere, ut salutare remedium iis adhibeatur et desideratissimae pacis scopus tandem attingatur. Id quidem non parus doloris et maestitiae Sermo. Electori attulit quod inde et statim a principis omnem operam suam eo impendit quomodo mature tantis malis occurreretur et per motus Bohemicos non attenti ullis precibus admonitionibus obsecrationibus excitata flamma in fumo quasi opprimeretur, et sacrum Rom. Imp. ejusdemque fidelissimi status presentissimo exitio eriperentur et illesi conservarentur. Quibus tamen omnibus nihil aliud effecit quam quod Infelicissima Patria per turbulentos quosdam in tam immane incendium sit precipitata ut nunc tam facile minime extingui posset, et totalem ruinam et extremam desolationem secum trahat. Quod vel inde Ser. Elector divinare certius possit cum ad hunc usque diem nulla spes firmae et stabilis pacis affulgeat nec ullae ejus ineundae tolerabiles rationes institutae sed plus semper olei quam aquae camino aestuanti infusum fuerit. Et in ea plane cum Regia Serte. Ser. Elector est sententia nisi eternus mundi Moderator et arbiter qui Deus est pacis pro divina sua clementia animos hominum ad pacem et concordiam inclinet (quod ut faxit ex intimis contriti cordis visceribus orandum) in humano auxilio nullum supersit presidium. Sermo. Electori et Universis et singulis Europae populis et incolis, optime perspectum est, quanto studio pacis et tranquillitatis Regia Sertas. teneatur ut merito pacifici titulo insigniri debeat, non solum quod amplissima Regna Dominia et Insulas suas usque huc pacatissimas felicissime rexerit, imminentia illis domi forisque innumera pericula mirifica virtute et providentia amolita fuerit, et aliis in Regnis et Provinciis tumultus exitiosissimos quamplurimos tanta quidem cum desteritate et felicitate sedarit, ut sat dignis laudibus, hoc depredicari minime possit, verum etiam quod exortis motibus Bohemicis tam mitem tam benignum et placidum sese exhibuerit ut nullius eminentiae, ordinis et dignitatis homo sit, qui laudatissimum Regiae Sertis. propositum non summopere commendet et encomiis in coelum usque tollat, quod Bohemorum conatus nunquam ratos habuerit, sed publico edito dissensu improbarit, tantum Regio suo amori et affectui erga Dominum Generum suum licere noluerit, ut inauditum et pessimum insurgendi exemplum confirmaretur, et aliorum Principum subditis simile quid contra summum Magistratum moliendi fenestra quasi aperiretur. Id quod Ser. Elector, si predicta cessarent, maxime etiam ex presenti legatione satisquam luculentur perspicit, Regiam Sertam. in preclaro pacis postliminio reducendae tuendaeque studio hactenus perrexisse Domino Genero suo omnia quae ad mitigandum Sacrae Caesareae Maj. et Ser. Domus Austriacae exacerbatum et offensum animum facere possent persuasisse suum denique unicum dilectum filium hanc ob causas in Hispanias ablegasse, quo mediante Regio Matrimonio effusio innocentissimi sanguinis precaveretur et Domini Generi causa in melius restitueretur. Non miratur insuper Ser. Elector quod Regia Ser. ex innato Regio paterno amore et affectu erga Dom. Generum Suum et nepotes, eo omnem cogitationem dirigat quomodo presentissimo ipsis subveniatur auxilio, sed hoc solummodo Ser. Elector considerat num etiam per illud a Regio parlamento consultatum, conclusum et a Regia Serte. approbatum, eique per hanc legationem indicatum medium ita causa juvari possit, ut exoptatus eventus consequatur. Nova enim eaque cruentissima moverentur bella, Sacrum Rom. Imp. et Inclytum Mag. Brit. Regnum continuis inter se colliderentur armis, per antiqua illa necessitudo et conjunctio penibus tolleretur fortunae aliae omnia committerentur, et utrique parte ea incommoda afferentur quae belli tempestatem sequi solent. Et quid multis? Etiamsi victoria obtineretur parum tamen utilis illa foret, parum tuta praesentim cum Sacra Caes. Maj. talibus molitionibus vehementissime fuerit offensa et omnia facta et acta et quae durante seditione Bohemica sunt consecuta, tam ab exteris quam internis Regibus, Principibus et Statibus maximopere improbentur, et eo usque ventum sit cum Electura Palatina, quod res non amplius sit integra Illmus. Bavariae Dux investituram et possessionem ejus impetrarit, et ab omnibus fere Impii. Ordinibus Elector salutetur habeatur inscribatur. Ser. Electoris alias memoriae nondum excidit quid non ita pridem in Electorali et Principati Ratisbonae habito conventu actum fuerit et tam extra quam intra solennes confessus per legatos suos moneri et urgeri fuerit. Optaret sane Regia Ser. ad Dietam illam legatos misisset, et Sacr. Caes. Maj. et presentibus Electoribus et Princip. desiderium suum proponi curasset suus quoque Dom. Gener per litteras aut legatos submissioni sese obtulisset, forte aliter cecedisset alea; quia autem nihil horum factum in eum res devenit locum quo nunc est. Quorum tamen omnium mentionem non ideo fecit Ser. Elector quasi Regiae Ser. formam et modum in dirigendis negotiis prescribere velit, sed ut sincerum infucatumque amorem suum ei testificitur et ad previam petionem fidele communicet consilium spe nixus certissima Regiam Ser. hoc in bonam partem interpretaturam nec a pristino pacis studio latum unguem recessuram sed post hac etiam rem cum Sacr. Caes. Maj. communicaturam et frequentibus conventibus et comitiis eam proposituram spe illa optima Sacr. Caes. Maj. ratione Nepotum manum nondum esse clausam, illam Regiae Sertis. non parum gratificari posse. Petitum auxilium quod attinet optime meminit Ser. Elector quam arctissimo obsequii vinculo Sacr. Caes. Maj. et Rom. Imp. sit obstrictus, quod item Bavariae Ducem certis conditionibus quae Dom. legato non ignotae pro Electore quamdiu vixerit recognoverit ut istam ob causam Regie Serti. animum suum hac in parte ostendere non tam facile possit: Nichilominus pro virili omne suum studium pollicetur se ad Sacr. Caes. Maj. et reliquos suos Collegas Electores hanc Regiae Sertis. intentionem conceptam quae sententiam referre et sedulam operam dare ut a Sacro Romano Imperio omne periculum avertatur et inter ipsum, et Inclytum Mag. Brit. Regnum Vetus amicitia et sinceritas conservetur; ita denique sese componere velle ut conceptae de se a Regiae Ser. bonae opinioni ut promptus et paratus est in omnibus respondeat.
Atque haec Regiae Sertis. legato Ser. Elector ad propositam legationem responsi locum significatione solitae clementiae et gratiae tribuere voluit.
Dabantur Augustoburgi xi Septembris Anno MDCXXIV. (fn. 2)
Nov. 18.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Savoia.
Venetian
Archives.
666. LORENZO PARUTA, Venetian Ambassador in Savoy, to the DOGE and SENATE.
I have tried to discover particulars about the descent of the French troops. As I had not seen the English ambassador for some time I called upon him to learn what particulars he might have on the subject. Without any provocation on my part he told me that on that very morning Cavoredo was to march towards Grenoble, with orders to avoid the Constable and get his force into these states with all speed, that of his Highness being quite ready to cross the mountains. He felt sure the French troops would not exceed 6,000 men and might serve as those whom his Majesty was to pay for the duke, The Constable did not at all approve, thinking that they were very slow in accomplishing what had been arranged at Susa.
He went on to tell me confidentially, asking for my silence, that in the interests of his king and out of curiosity about the duke's intentions against Milan he had learned on good authority that the duke had decided to take his whole force against Alessandria, but he would keep his eye on Genoa with the idea of using the troops paid by the French for his own advantage.
I thanked him for the news and asked if he thought the duke was ready to take the field with 10,000 men by the end of the month, as announced. He said he thought the duke might collect a force of 8,000 foot and 800 horse in three or four days, and with others he might soon have 12,000 foot and 1,500 horse. He counted on obtaining money from your Serenity. I showed that he had no grounds for such hopes.
He went on to speak in such warm terms of Venice that I could not have said more myself, and expressed his ardent desire to be there as soon as possible. He hoped he could start soon, as he was only waiting for his wife, who should arrive here to-morrow.
Turin, the 18th November, 1624.
[Italian; the part in italics deciphered.]
Nov. 22.
Senato,
Secreta.
Deliberazioni,
Roma.
Venetian
Archives.
667. To the Ambassador in England.
You have replied prudently to the requests made for action on the part of the republic, that we shall punctually fulfil our obligations under the league. We have to inform you, for your use upon occasion and to foster confidence and also to encourage resolution in that quarter, that part of the troops of the league are being sent to the Grisons and have occupied the principal passes to prevent incursions from the Austrians. The Marquis of Coure, commander of the forces of the league, has arrived there to inspect the fortifications. The troops were received with acclamation by the people and the Pittag of Coire granted a free pass to the forces of the league. We have pushed forward our forces on the side of Valcamonica and the Bergamesco, sending thither abundant provisions and munitions of war.
The Constable and the Duke of Savoy are conferring at Susa and they also have their forces ready. On the other side the Governor of Milan constantly reinforces and also sends help to Leopold. We do not enjoin upon you any express office upon these events, but we leave it to your prudence if you consider the moment opportune to communicate them to the Duke of Buckingham, or one of the other ministers, the prince or even the king himself.
Your letters give us full information about Mansfeld. Although we might have commanded him, as being in our pay, we have not wished to divert him. But, in order not to fail in our obligations to France under the league, we have promised to support him whenever he may be in Alsace or Burgundy with his army. This is for information so that if anyone makes remarks on the subject you may show the excellent disposition of the republic.
As regards the transport of muscat, we have submitted the information to the magistrates concerned, so that they may have the materials for their answer, just as you have assured the English ministers of the sincerity of the republic, which only desires what tends to the advantage of the mutual trade.
Ayes, 144.Noes, 0.Neutral, 4.
[Italian.]
Nov. 22.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Inghilterra.
Venetian
Archives.
668. ZUANE PESARO, Venetian Ambassador in England, to the DOGE and SENATE.
The Duke of Buckingham did not return to arrange with the French ambassador and the king did not let himself be seen, on the pretext of suffering from the gout, but really to avoid the trouble of business. Perhaps this audience was prevented wisely so that his Majesty should not negotiate in anger, as they say he was angry, since he detests being importuned and compelled to come to a decision. However, the ambassador has received satisfaction and thinks that the difficulties about the marriage have been overcome, as Buckingham has apologised for the latest events, partly on account of the king's nature and in part blaming the ambassadors. His Majesty has sent back the courier, who was one of the secretaries of the ambassadors, with orders to sign the marriage articles and to stand to the proposals made to him by the Secretary Vileocler, and that besides the conditions reported about Mansfeld, they will further do what is considered reasonable on the expiry of the six months. I have not the precise wording, but the ambassador does not consider the alteration of any importance. As a safeguard for France, he desired this secretary to take a note to his masters urging them not to delay to sign, a necessary precaution, as with the uncertainty that reigns at this court one is never sure of anything until it is done.
The ministers here have spoken to me in such a way as to suggest that the affair depends somewhat upon France, saying that both sides ought to yield. Only with the hoped for issue can one feel any certainty.
Buckingham has declared that he will proceed to France, and he hastens his preparations and invites cavaliers for the journey, but apparently he will not go until after the obtaining of the dispensation, because whereas the Duke of Chevreuse is to serve for bringing Madame over, so Buckingham has to solemnise the nuptials arranged to be performed in France. Although matters are so far advanced there are still persons who assert that other difficulties will arise and that these announcements are mere shows.
Nevertheless, the French ambassador perseveres and with the Archbishop of Ambrun has gone to a country house of Buckingham to arrange about the carrying out of the Catholic matters, so I am assured. The Catholics want to know about this through special persons, but that may not prove practicable. To urge France to a stronger declaration the ministers here continue to speak of the coming of Gondomar. He will come, they say, laden with the most weighty proposals, but they will not believe him as they know his tricks, though with his Majesty's nature they could not advise the refusal of a Spanish minister. He would listen to good advice, but could not carry it out; the state of affairs called for war, which the king abhorred, and peace would always be embraced, to their detriment. That is why their councils and resolutions are so mixed. It was clear that they could move their forces both by land and sea, and for this the councillors and people were fully disposed and it would be easy and successful; but the king did not wish it, because he could not act alone, and he did not feel sure of a colleague, and for this reason his Majesty sought difficulties perhaps to render it impossible. Such ideas are represented to me to throw light upon the king's intentions.
He has mitigated the rigour of his orders against the Dutch, as he has given powers to the merchants trading in the Indies to arrest by their ships only those Dutch ships which belong to the East India Company, ordering the captains of the ports of this realm to stop ships of this character which arrive in their jurisdiction, as he wishes to keep this up and show his resentment against private individuals, not against the state, more for the satisfaction of his own subjects who are concerned than to go any further. Your Serenity's offices through me and those of the French ambassador may have helped, but the Dutch say they will avert the danger by the prompt execution of justice.
The agent of the Palatine here has sent many advices to the Court about the affairs of Germany; complimentary letters from the Duke of Wirtemberg to the prince about his dangerous fall; declarations from the King of Denmark in reply to the emperor's request for advice about the peace of the empire, that the best way would be to restore the Palatine to his dominions and dignities, while that prince should make submission to the emperor by deputies and not in person. The Margrave of Brandenburg concurred in this advice, but in more vigorous and incisive terms. Saxony declares that his recognition of Bavaria is conditional, to recognise him as Elector for life until peace is established in the empire, or until he is obliged to recognise him as such by a general Diet. He further declares his neutrality, that he will not embrace the cause of the Palatine or interest himself in helping the emperor. These communications serve as a sign of confidence if they do not tend to revive the king's hope of negotiating successfully.
London, the 22nd November, 1624.
[Italian; the part in italics deciphered.]
Nov. 22.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Inghilterra.
Venetian
Archives.
669. ZUANE PESARO, Venetian Ambassador in England, to the DOGE and SENATE.
The Count of Mansfeld arrived in this city three days ago alone and unaccompanied, announced only by a storm and the danger of perishing at sea. With little experience of the wind and navigation, he ran his ship on the sand banks, but as a small vessel was at hand he fortunately got on board with only three companions, selected by chance and not by his command. After fighting the waves for two days they arrived miraculously in the Downs. Nothing is heard of the ship, which belonged to the king, was of 500 tons and carried 42 pieces of ordnance. They believe and fear here that it is an utter loss with all hands and the count's baggage, which means all he possesses and the results of his numerous labours. Among the company was Captain Bernardino Rota, who deserves to escape for his faithful services to your Serenity and his good qualities.
The count is staying at the inn, and one hears of no orders from Court for his further entertainment. He has arrived too soon, as matters are not yet ripe, although he explains that his bad fortune brought him here and he meant to go and arrange matters at Calais and its neighbourhood in France. Nevertheless, he intended to hasten on in person the preparations in this quarter, which have been too much delayed to satisfy his desires or needs. At the moment of his arrival he sent to Court asking for his despatch, with the idea of obtaining a speedier decision by the weight of his own person and of the troops levied in Germany, whom he is awaiting on the coasts of this kingdom. Buckingham has sent a special gentleman to him with his commissions with the idea that these may be his own expeditions. These orders of the king are very gracious towards the count, honouring him with the titles of prince and cousin, and declaring that he entrusts these troops to his abilities to serve his son-in-law, and as he cannot recover the Palatinate except by war, his Majesty intimates his desire that the count shall do no harm to his friends and allies, among whom he expressly mentions the Catholic king and the Infanta of Brussels, but to direct his forces against those who hold the Palatinate, virtually indicating the emperor and the Duke of Bavaria. Such is the substance which has just been communicated to me, and Mansfeld had to bind himself not to countervene his Majesty's commands. He readily accepted the commissions under these conditions. It is believed that these clauses were drawn up by his Majesty's own hand, but they do not meet the situation, because that requires action with men and money.
They have made the rolls for the men, and proceed slowly although all the troops should be at Dover on the 29th November (December 9th); yet they do not begin to march. The king has ordered the Council of War to provide the money they are bound to supply to Mansfeld and the assurances for the merchants. The Council could not meet at first for lack of numbers, and subsequently it charged the Treasurer to find means for securing this payment.
Apparently there is no difficulty except shortness of money. Some think that before arranging everything they should wait to hear about the resolutions of France. The agent of Flanders remonstrates about these levies, and declares that he will ask his Majesty the reason and if he means to break the peace.
In announcing the orders for Mansfelt it appears that they have prepared their answers to him.
In our exchange of visits and when I showed him every courtesy in his misfortunes, the count told me that he had been better received by the States than in the past; he had 5,000 of his veteran German soldiers ready, and 1,000 will be levied in the Netherlands, 5,000 French and 10,000 English, with the hope that the captains will increase the numbers to 14,000, with whom he believes he can fulfil his bargain. Of cavalry he has 2,000 Germans, 1,500 French and 500 English, reckoning to have all the other provisions. He told me that Alberstat had become his friend and would command the cavalry, to please the Queen of Bohemia and England. Of the leading appointments, the count della Torre will be Lieutenant General to Alberstat and the Duke of Candale will command the artillery, to protect which he has undertaken to levy 1,000 Swiss.
Mansfelt further told me that he had pointed out the opportunity to Gabor and given him vigour for some months in the hope that others will follow him. God grant that these plans do not go awry after all the preliminaries have been arranged, and that the season and craft do not spoil all.
London, the 22nd November, 1624.
[Italian; the part in italics deciphered.]
Nov. 22.
Consiglio
di X.
Parti Secrete,
Venetian
Archives.
670. Whereas the public ciphers have been intercepted, together with the goods of our Ambassador Valaresso, returned from England, and it is therefore necessary to change them, that three of those present be chosen to consult with the secretaries and others concerned with the ciphers, and direct them to make forthwith one or more ciphers, more secure, easy to decipher and easy to write, and that done to bring it to the Chiefs with their opinion in writing, so that this Council may determine what is necessary for the public service, and send it to all the ambassadors and representatives.
Ayes, 14.Noes, 0.Neutral, 0.
[Italian.]
Nov. 23.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Spagna.
Venetian
Archives.
671. LUNARDO MORO, Venetian Ambassador in Spain, to the DOGE and SENATE.
They have finally decided to send the Count of Gondomar to England as the person who enjoys peculiar favour with the king there and who has great credit at that Court. They say he will leave in twenty days, taking with him the ordinary ambassador, appointed some months ago, who now is governor of Cambrai, (fn. 3) as he will only stay a few days to take up the thread of the negotiations about the Palatinate, and then go on to Germany for the same purpose. I understand, however, that he will not start before they receive letters from the secretary recently sent to that realm, that there is hope for some overtures as many here fear that the king there has gone so far in his dealings with France that he will not be able to draw back. But if Gondomar arrives in time to stop him his mission will doubtless not be in vain, as he knows that king's character better than anyone here.
The English ambassador here considers an adjustment of the Palatinate affair very easy, if the emperor and Bavaria are as ready to give up the part they hold as the Spaniards assert, and if during Bavaria's life they increase the number of electors by one as previously suggested. Certainly this question outweighs all others here at present.
News has come that in England, in Buckingham's house, meetings take place daily between the ambassadors of France, Venice and Holland, with Mansfelt.
Madrid, the 23rd November, 1624.
[Italian.]
Nov. 23.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Firenze.
Venetian
Archives.
672. VALERIO ANTELMI, Venetian Secretary at Florence, to the DOGE and SENATE.
Mansfeld has had from the King of England the levy of 9,000 English and 3,000 Scots for the recovery of the Palatinate. The preparation of this force corresponds with that of the troops raised by Alberstat with the pecuniary assistance of France, arranged with England. The entire force will serve to bridle Tilly.
Florence, the 23rd November, 1624.
[Italian.]
Nov. 25.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Francia.
Venetian
Archives.
673. MARC ANTONIO MOROSINI, Venetian Ambassador in France, to the DOGE and SENATE.
After despatching the courier on the 18th I went straight to the English embassy to congratulate them upon the conclusion of the marriage and to thank them for sending me word. They received me with remarkable cordiality, coming to the street door, although they were not completely dressed. They told me that the king had ordered them to terminate the matter in any event, accepting such promises as the Most Christian himself chose to make, without binding him to anything, in the assurance that the courage and generosity of his Majesty could not submit to ordinary restrictions or receive prescriptions for his glorious designs. Undoubtedly he would do more for the Palatine and his children than he cared to promise, since interests of state, kindred and affection constrained him.
They subsequently thanked me for the trouble I had taken. They went on to inveigh against the Spaniards, saying this was the time to overthrow that colossus. We must attack the common enemy from several quarters, and with this new marriage alliance every other prince would see the term of his anxieties and would feel inspired to join them against the Spaniards. Those who love security and liberty should also take heart. The occasion did not require tardy remedies or too deliberate physicians.
I approved and assured them of the excellent disposition of the republic, which would feel incredible content at hearing of the union of the two crowns.
On the evening of that same day the marriage articles were signed, although some difficulties arose over the order of signing, the ambassadors refusing to give place or their hand to the cardinals; however, on Wednesday evening the treaty was agreed upon to the universal satisfaction.
Sciombergh came to see me yesterday morning and asked for money to support Mansfelt. Ocher, secretary for Flanders, did the same. After dinner they held a conference in the Chancellor's house, attended by the ministers, Sciampigni, superintendent of the finances, d'Arbo, and Villocler, secretary of state for English affairs. The ambassadors of England and Savoy were invited and took part. The Chancellor made me a long speech, ending, as I expected, in a demand for money. I made a very complete reply, in order that the English ambassadors, who had not attended our conferences, might fully understand the motive of your Serenity and not blame you unreasonably. I succeeded so far that I satisfied every one, and the English ambassadors said that we must wait to hear from Venice and there was no occasion to trouble me by asking me to further conferences. They decided to arm Mansfelt without delay, the ministers here promising to support him for six months, and they said they would send him to Alsace or Burgundy immediately he had crossed the sea.
The ambassadors forthwith sent an express with these resolutions to England, to inform his Majesty, and I gave him a letter for the Most Excellent Pesaro, to whom I tell everything.
They begin to speak of the journey to Calais again, and the ambassadors ask that the bride may be in London by Christmas. I do not know how they can possibly travel in this weather and by these roads.
Paris, the 25th November, 1624.
[Italian; the part in italics deciphered.]
Nov. 25.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Francia.
Venetian
Archives.
674. MARC' ANTONIO MOROSINI, Venetian Ambassador in France, to the DOGE and SENATE.
Villocler is to leave for London the day after to-morrow, as arranged, to get the King of Great Britain to sign the articles. Gondomar will come here on his way to Brussels instead of going to London, as was intended before they heard of the conclusion of the marriage, and that he could not arrive in time.
They lighted bonfires for the marriage, fired all the guns of the Arsenal, and yesterday gave a ball in the Louvre; all the ambassadors and princes lighted bonfires also. I went to congratulate the king, queen, the bride and Monsieur. His Majesty was especially pleased and remarked that he knew the Spaniards were very upset about this marriage, but he would always labour with all his might to unite all the world against them.
Paris, the 25th November, 1624.
[Italian; the part in italics deciphered.]
Nov. 25.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Signori
Stati.
Venetian
Archives.
675. ALVISE CONTARINI, Venetian Ambassador in the Netherlands, to the DOGE and SENATE.
Captain Bret, an Englishman, related to the Duke of Buckingham and asked for by him to be employed upon the levies of the Count of Mansfelt, (fn. 4) came out of Breda two days ago. He reports an abundance of provisions for some months, an increase of the plague with no small distress and danger, and the approach of the enemy by two forts towards the Antwerp Gate to prevent the cattle remaining in Breda from getting pasture, which they reserved for the sake of the milk.
The Earl of Southampton, a leading English nobleman, of the Order of the Garter, who came here in command of a regiment of the last levies, has died after a few days' illness as well as his son, a youth about twenty years of age. (fn. 5) The loss is acutely felt at this Court owing to the earl's reputation as a good Englishman and one interested in the common cause.
The Hague, the 25th November, 1642.
[Italian.]
Nov. 25.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Signori
Stati.
Venetian
Archives.
676. ALVISE CONTARINI, Venetian Ambassador in the Netherlands, to the DOGE and SENATE.
Letters from London of the 18th to the English ambassador and Colonel Pebliz announce the arrival of Mansfelt and the happy progress of his affairs, especially the levies. They have not yet paid him anything, but the count writes that the king has done his part and in the future he will deal with the merchants. The Queen of Bohemia has shown me a letter from one of his Majesty's secretaries confirming this. They have opened negotiations at Amsterdam for ships for bringing the troops over, with the assent of the English ambassador, I understand.
The people of Emden have refused to give up the guns to the count, expressing fear of a rising among the people.
The Hague, the 25th November, 1624.
[Italian; deciphered.]
Nov. 29.
Senato,
Secreta.
Deliberazioni.
Venetian
Archives.
677. To the Ambassador at the Hague.
The forces of the league continue to advance, having pushed towards Poschiavo. We continue to send provisions, munitions and guns to the frontiers. We have sent a good force under the Proveditore Donado to the Bergamo frontier, besides what we have in Valcamonica. We steadily increase our forces and have ordered the increase of our fleet, and we shall not fail in any article of the alliance. You will make confidential communication of all these matters to their High Mightinesses as usual.
The like to England for information.
Ayes, 137.Noes, 0.Neutral, 3.
[Italian.]
Nov. 29.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Inghilterra.
Venetian
Archives.
678. ZUANE PESARO, Venetian Ambassador in England, to the DOGE and SENATE.
They continue to await with the utmost impatience the news of the signing of the marriage in France. Appearances and assurances steadily improve, as those who come from that Court with special advices of the king's ambassadors confirm that everything has been adjusted, and that the signing was to take place on the day of the return of the Most Christian from the chase, when they would make bonfires, and that the Secretary Vileocler will depart in a few days.
In spite of all this, many, including a majority of the Court, withold their belief about the fulfilment, and fear that the king, being what he is, will break off everything. I must let time decide. I have actually learned that with the last despatches they suggested fresh negotiations for other marriages in Germany and Piedmont, but the prince remained steadfast in his inclination towards France. He has also shown himself very firm against those who wish to profit by the new promises with the coming of Gondomar, which amount in substance to this, that there shall be no failure on the part of the Catholic king, who desires the marriage of the Infanta more than ever; that Gondomar shall have the means not only of satisfying every promise, but of meeting every fresh request that his Majesty may make. The prince said that the Spaniards had not been good falconers; they should have held the bird when it was in their hand, and a bird that has once been caged does not return a second time. (Il Prencipe disse che Spagnoli non sono stati buoni falconieri; che doveano tener l'ucello quando era nel pugno; et che gabbato la prima, non si ritornera la seconda.)
Nevertheless the king had given ear to these underhand negotiations, as the Spanish secretary has as many agents as he wants; and his Majesty's ambassador in Spain has strengthened the belief in the good intentions in that quarter, by his belief in them expressed in his letters. This has given great offence to the prince and Buckingham, who openly threaten to ruin him. Buckingham's influence becomes constantly stronger, and his existence depends upon the continuation of the present disposition.
He has obtained from his Majesty signs of favour never before shown. He will be Earl of Tipperary in the province of Munster in Ireland, that dignity bearing the title of Earl Palatine. He will enjoy many sovereign rights, such as justice and coining money. A uterine brother (fn. 6) of his will be president of the same province, and the duke will be Lieutenant-General for the king in that realm, above the Viceroy himself. Furthermore, he is designated as Admiral of the Cinque Ports, an office of the highest dignity, usually granted for old services. The duke announces that he will refuse these honours, though his Majesty is equally insistent in his commands. The duke has done this to mollify his unpopularity, which has grown almost too great.
Mansfeld is still staying at the inn, and keeps urging his despatch. The Court is also pressing matters by repeated orders, but the difficulty of money, whether by necessity or artifice, constitutes the greatest obstacle. Nevertheless he has a promise of 50,000l. sterling, which will serve as payment for two months and for the provision of arms, one month's pay being required for the cost of the levies.
In this connection a report is current that the prince will devote 20,000l. of his own provision to hasten on the despatch, paying himself back in time. This has marvellously increased the reputation of his Highness and his popularity among the people. But he ventures nothing when he could do everything, as he is excessively afraid of his father (che fa mirabel accrescimento di reputatione di S.A. et di affetto delli popoli verso di Lei; ma niente ardisca mentre tutto potrebbe, temendo estraordinariamente il Padre).
They continue to press men and array them, but what could be done in a very few days drags slowly on, and they choose men who have never seen a sword, so that their arrival in this season with their fear and inexperience is certainly little to be relied on.
It is announced that the troops of the count levied in Germany and the Netherlands have embarked upon nine ships to proceed to the ports of this kingdom. It has therefore been arranged in the Council of War that they shall be freely received, but that the soldiers shall not land except in the day time and unarmed, and to buy food. They have not yet come to any decision about transporting all the troops, but it is said that they will hold a council to-day for the final settlement of everything.
His Majesty's instructions to Mansfeld about these forces are much more ample against the emperor and Bavaria, declaring that his task is to recover the Palatinate and to bring his Imperial Majesty and Bavaria more quickly to a proper state of mind, with the bishops and others who hinder the recovery of the patrimony and dignity of his children and who disturb the empire.
Mansfeld keeps these various declarations as secret as he can, fearing that the interested parties, who wish thereby to spur the Spaniards to give satisfaction about the occupied territory, may take alarm. He declares that his promises will not prejudice the services which he owes to others; the king here thinks that the Spaniards will not refuse him a passage, but once the force is in being and some more precise declaration is obtained from his Majesty, it will either compel the Spaniards to attack the first or he will excuse himself under the pressure of necessity or the situation of the Palatinate; in a word he will take his men where both parties want them. His plan is to arm, afterwards to look for methods of acting and pretexts for excuse.
The count told me that the French have approached him eagerly, assuring him that if England is unwilling his Most Christian Majesty will carry out everything with the confederates, and if they do not want to share France will act alone. This news will come more surely from another Court, but I am not accustomed to hide or to change what is said to me.
The count also, with the confirmation of the wreck of the king's ship and the loss of his baggage, including his papers, asked me to request your Serenity to send him a fresh patent, considering that that meant his reputation and the safety of his fortunes. He added that he would not venture to importune your Serenity, but Captain Bernardino, whom he believes saved, will have nothing in the world but his drenched shirt and what your Excellencies please to give him.
A gentleman has arrived from the ambassador resident in Denmark and hastened to Court with a full account of his negotiations with the princes in Germany and some special proposals which I have not yet discovered. He brings confirmation that Saxony will remain neutral unless the whole empire commands the reverse; that the King of Denmark refrains from active operations until he sees the king, sword in hand. It seems that the ambassador is staying on to bring about a conference between that king and the Elector of Saxony. A few days will bring more certainty.
Another gentleman has come from Piedmont, a confidential servant of the Marshal Crichi. He went to Court without speaking to any one, but Mansfelt remarked to me that he thought he brought word from his Highness and the Constable of the state of affairs there and other matters connected with the design upon Genoa.
The Archbishop of Ambrun claims to have finished his task, and says he must leave, glorying in having publicly performed sacramental functions, a thing that no one has accomplished since the change of religion in these realms. Yet the Jesuits and certain Catholics lament that he has ventured to officiate in another's jurisdiction. He particularly prayed the Catholics and religions of the various orders, as Bethune requested, to send petitions to Rome to hasten on the dispensation. However, no one ventures unless the Jesuits take the first step, and they are utterly opposed, although for the Spaniards they had special English delegates at Rome. Such is the influence of the Spaniards with those who admit their fear of offending them, and constantly live in hope that the king will return to his vomit and that Gondomar will turn up (Tanto può il credito de' Spagnoli in questi che dechiarano timore di offenderli, vivendo con le speranze che sempre il Re ritorni al vomito e che Gondomar apparisca).
The Earl of Southampton has died in Holland—one of the colonels of the English troops; thus England has lost one of the bravest and noblest of her cavaliers and a Garter is vacant.
London, the 29th November, 1624.
[Italian; the part in italics deciphered.]
Nov. 29.
Consiglio
di X.
Parti Secrete.
Venetian
Archives.
679. In the Council of Ten.
That the letter of our ambassador in France with particulars of papers which passed between France and Savoy at Susa about a design upon Genoa be read by a secretary to the Sages of our Collegio, after imposing the oath of secrecy and taking their names, and be remitted to them as well as to the Senate, if they see fit.
Ayes, 12.Noes, 0.Neutral, 2.
[Italian.]
Senato,
Secreta.
Comunicazioni
dal.
Consiglio
di X.
Venetian
Archives.
680. Enclosure in Letter of Marc Antonio Morosini, Venetian Ambassador in France, of the 16th November, 1624.
The Spaniards are very weak and they have no more than 50,000 Spaniards in all Italy. They have sent their troops from Italy to Flanders. We must make use of all friendly forces first, subsidizing the Dutch; then induce the King of England to support the Dutch with paid forces, and so keep the Spanish forces busily employed far from the point which we mean to attack. We should also negotiate with the Swiss and Grisons, the Pope, Venice, our friends in Germany and the Turk to act against the Spaniards. The most essential thing is that the Most Christian should attack Genoa, which he could have in less than twenty days. The only pretext he needs is that of helping the Duke of Savoy.
[Italian.]
Nov. 30.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Francia.
Venetian
Archives.
681. MARC ANTONIO MOROSINI, Venetian Ambassador in France, to the DOGE and SENATE.
At the earnest request of the English ambassadors they have decided that the bride shall leave here after celebrating Christmas Day. The king, queen, and all the Court are preparing for the journey. I shall await your Serenity's orders.
Paris, the 30th November, 1624.
[Italian.]
Nov. 30.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Roma.
Venetian
Archives.
682. PIERO CONTARINI, Venetian Ambassador at Rome, to the DOGE and SENATE.
The congregation appointed for the English marriage has already arranged the conditions upon which the dispensation may be granted; they have also settled matters with the French ambassador. That ambassador merely wishes to have them drawn up at length, so that he may send them to Court, otherwise they might receive different interpretations one way or the other.
Rome, the 30th November, 1624.
[Italian.]
Nov. 30.
Misc.
Cod. No. 63.
Venetian
Archives.
683. MARC ANTONIO PADAVIN, Venetian Secretary in Germany, to the DOGE and SENATE.
The Duke of Bavaria and Tilly are asking leave of the emperor to take Franchentale supposing the Infanta gives it up. If he gives it, it will be with the assurance that she will keep the place upon the grounds already stated.
Yesterday the emperor heard from the Infanta that the Count of Mansfelt had been drowned on his return from England. He and his Court displayed great satisfaction at this news. He at once sent to inform me, the nuncio, Ecchembergh and others.
We hear of some overtures of marriage made in Spain, between the Infanta and the emperor's son, since the one with England seems hopeless.
Vienna, the 30th November, 1624.
[Italian; copy.]

Footnotes

1 There is an account in French of this shipwreck among the State Papers, Foreign, Holland, for November. Mansfelt with 6 of his suite and 18 English escaped; 62 of Mansfelt's men and 66 English were drowned. The name of the ship was the Speedwell of the Royal Navy. In the S.P. Dom. (vol. clxxiv, no. 56) there is an extract from the account given of the disaster by Captain Chudleigh of the Speedwell.
2 This paper is preserved among the State Papers, Foreign, Germany (States).
3 Diego de Mendoza. See page 413 above.
4 Capt. Alexander Brett. See S.P. Dom., 1623–5, page 351.
5 James lord Wriothesley died on the 15th November, at Rosendal, and his father, the Earl of Southampton, on the following Tuesday, the 19th, at Bergen. Carleton's despatch of the 15/25 November. State Papers, Foreign, Holland.
6 Sir Edward Villiers.