Minute Book
September 1708

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Institute of Historical Research

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Author

William A. Shaw (editor)

Year published

1952

Pages

40, 41, 42, 43, 44

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'Minute Book: September 1708', Calendar of Treasury Books, Volume 22: 1708 (1952), pp. 40-44. URL: http://british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=90586 Date accessed: 01 September 2014.


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Contents

September 1708

Sept. 6, forenoon. Windsor Castle. Present: Lord Treasurer.
Mr. Brydges is called in & his memorial [of demand for money for the Forces abroad] is read. Thereupon my Lord ordered the issue of 9505l. 6. 8 being the undisposed residue of the third payment of 200000l. by the East India Company together with so much as will make up the said total out of the Contributions on the second Act [6 Anne, c. 49] for Annuities anno 1708: & is to be applied as follows viz:
£ s. d.
in part of 894272l. 3. 6 for the 40000 men anno 1708 for 32 days' subsistence from Sept 24 inst to Oct 24 next to Farrington's Regiment of Foot 954 8 0
in part of 177511l. 3. 6 for the 10000 additional men anno 1708
for subsistence for same time to Johnson's Regiment of Foot 1016 10 8
in part of 586671l. 12. 6 for the Established Forces in Spain & Portugal anno 1708
for subsistence for the same time to the Regiments of Foot of Livesay, Hamilton, Dormer, Wyn, Moor, Caulfeild & Townesend 6632 10 8
for 32 days' pay ending Aug 24 last to Lieut. Gen. Earle & the several Generals & other officers appointed to serve under him 901 17 4
£9505 6 8
[My Lord directs the issue of] 13954l. 0. 10 out of Civil List money: for a list of items see the letter of direction of Sept 6 ut infra p. 369.
Several papers are read & the minutes [of my Lord's decisions & answers thereto are endorsed] upon them.
[My Lord directs] 3000l. to the Treasurer of the Navy out of this year's funds: & is to be paid over to Mr. Whitfeild for subsistence to the Marines & for two thirds pay to such as are come from foreign service. Treasury Minute Book XVI, p. 241. Disposition Book XIX, pp. 207, 208.
Sept. 13, forenoon. Windsor Castle. Present: Lord Treasurer.
[My Lord directs] 37533l. 11. 2½ to the Cofferer of the Household: to be paid by 2000l. a week for 18 weeks from date hereof [out of Civil List moneys]. Hereof 15910l. 15. 9 is to complete 1707 Xmas quarter [for wages & board wages &c of the Household] and 20422l. 15. 5½ is for the entire quarter due at 1708 Lady day [for same] & 2000l. is upon account to defray the expenses of her Majesty's intended progress to Newmarket.
[My Lord directs] 12035l. 15. 1½ to the Treasurer of the Chamber to complete the payments in that Office to Lady day last except the sums “in the said [Chamber Treasurer's] memorial” for stationery ware for the Secretary of State's Offices for the two quarters ended Lady day last. Treasury Minute Book XVI, p. 242. Disposition Book XIX, p. 210.
Sept. 24, forenoon. Whitehall, Treasury Chambers. Present: Lord Treasurer.
The gentlemen of the two East India Companies are called in. My Lord Treasurer [tells them he] hopes they are come with dispositions towards an union which he is of opinion is very much for their own as well as the public service, and desires to know what progress they have made therein since they were last here.
Mr. Gould says they have had frequent meetings with the gentlemen of the Old Company and that himself & Mr. Dubois have been appointed to state the debts owing to & by the Companies & have prepared a paper to be laid before his lordship: but thinks it may be a prejudice [to them if] the sums should be made public, in case the union should not go on.
Sir Tho Cooke says 'tis insisted by the N[ew] Company that the Old should surrender their charter which they [the Old Company] conceive they cannot safely do till all matters are adjusted & determined. But when the sums are adjusted & settled they are ready to do what my Lord shall award.
My Lord Treasurer [says] in regard the gentlemen concerned in stating the debts & demands on both sides think it may be a prejudice to have the same known if the union should not take place he proposes that Mr. Gould & Mr. Dubois should seal up the paper they have prepared & leave it with him till the several matters in dispute amongst them are debated & settled; & in case they are not determined the said paper to be delivered back to them unopened.
They withdraw & being returned deliver the paper to his Lordship sealed up.
Mr. Colson desires that the objections made by the Old Company against the immediate surrendering their charter may be next considered.
Sir G Heathcote says the N[ew] Company would have the surrender of the Old Company's charter made now [so] that the New Company may not depend upon covenants only, because nothing has been done in pursuance of the covenants contained in the last charter made about 6 years ago.
Sir Thomas Cook says the Old Company have done a great deal since [that time] for they have paid off about 7 or 800000l. of their debts which were then above a million & do not now owe above 300000l. & that they are ready to agree to what my Lord shall think reasonable in the matter.
Sir G H[eathcote says] the Old Company have said from time to time that the indenture tripartite contains only covenants and the New Company may see them if they please.
Mr. Ward [says] by that indenture the New Company have a security which they are satisfied with; and desires that the award may put a final determination to all matters in dispute and that the Old Company's charter may now be surrendered.
The Lord Treasurer [says he] would [like to] know what the Old Company's objections are against a present surrender & what the reasons are for the New Company's insisting upon it.
Mr. Ward [says] if the Old Company will deposit such a part of the 70l. per cent (intended to be divided) as shall be thought reasonable they [the New Company] shall be contented.
Mr. Lowndes [says] the present [or immediate] surrender is impracticable & might bring clamours upon the Crown if it should be accepted, in regard their creditors would have none to sue nor any way to recover their past debts from the said Company.
The Lord Treasurer says what is to be done must be within 4 days: and the New Company insisting that the debts of the Old Company should be paid & their charter surrendered, which his Lordship conceives is impossible to be done within that time, he would be glad to know if some expedient could not be found out to help the same.
My Lord offers [the suggestion] that 700000l. should be put into [the hands of] trustees for payment of the debts of the Old Company.
Mr. Moor says if the award should not be complied with the New Company will have the same security they now have.
Mr. L[owndes] asks what objection [they the Old Company have] against depositing some part of the bonds for security to the New Company.
Mr. Colson [replies that he] thinks it will be a sort of a separate interest to be afterwards divided amongst the members of the Old Company.
Mr. Ward [says] the United Company are not to be any ways concerned with the debts of either Company. But if there be a deposit it must remain till all is finished.
Mr. L[owndes]: the time for continuing the deposit must be limited.
My Lord Treasurer says he understands the deposit offered is 50000l. for performance of the award in all particulars by the Old Company.
Mr. Shepheard [says] 50000l. is to no purpose: no way sufficient for the end designed.
My Lord Treasurer thinks the deposit a good proposal but would have them meet & consider of the quantum.
Mr. Ward says that what he offered as to a deposit he finds is not agreeable to the other gentlemen [of the Old Company].
Mr. S[hephear]d [says] if the charter can be surrendered & a sufficient security given they are ready to come into it.
Mr. Dod [says] upon consultations the Companies thought of three things (1) to transfer the interest of the Old Company to 26 trustees (2) to surrender the charter & leave it with my Lord Treasurer to be enrolled when all is done (3) to make an immediate surrender of the old charter & take a new one.
Mr. Howe [says] in case the surrender be made though it should be with my Lord he thinks it will disable the Old Company to act any further as a body corporate and so incapacitate them to sue for & recover their just debts and that the surrender & accepting a new charter is impracticable because the Crown will certainly be unwilling to grant a new charter before the debts are paid by the Old Company.
The Lord Treasurer [says] if the surrender be left with him it cannot have any effect until it be enrolled; but how far it may disable 'em from raising the 300000l. they now propose for paying their debts he doth not know.
Mr. Howe [says] it may be a doubt whether after the Old Company have affixed their seal to a surrender they can do any other act as a Corporation.
Mr. Ward [says] if the enrolment of the surrender should not be made till the Old Company's debts are paid they may be always master of their charter if they please.
Mr. Shepheard desires that the Old Company's charter may now be surrendered and that the New Company may be secured against their debts.
The Lord Treasurer [says] it is to be considered in regard that a surrender cannot be made within the time, how the New Company may be made as secure [as may be] & how far a deposit may go towards it; and [he desires] that they will consult [together] what quantum may be reasonable and whether there be anything in his power, or that they would have him move the Queen in, that may contribute towards the effecting of what is desired.
Sir G H[eathcote] says they are going to divide 700000l. a piece & all forts & castles &c and therefore desires that the award should require a competent sum to be called for, to carry on the trade, by such times as shall be thought fit.
Mr. L[owndes] says the Act & charter prescribe who shall be the persons to manage the trade & therefore the award cannot contain anything of this nature: that the Companies have given [the one of them] 2 millions to King William & [the other of them] are now paying 1,200,000l. to her Majesty and have therefore a good bottom to answer any bonds &c.
My Lord [says he] will be here at 6 this evening to expect the result of their consultations about the security. Treasury Minute Book XVI, pp. 242–7.
Sept. 24, afternoon. Present: Lord Treasurer.
The gentlemen of the East India Companies come in.
The Lord Treasurer asks what the effect has been of what he recommended to 'em in the morning.
Mr. Dod repeats the heads of several proposals sent to the New Company by the gentlemen of the Old Company: but says he does not know that they have had any discourse together since they were here in the morning.
The Lord Treasurer desires him to put them in writing: which being read & debated it is agreed by the gentlemen on both sides that my Lord Treasurer's award be prepared according to the said heads; but as to the quantum of the deposit for surrendering the Old Company's charter by a time to be prefixed, the same is submitted to [the decision of] my Lord.
The paper is delivered to Mr. Lowndes who is to meet Mr. Dodd & Mr. Townesend in order to draw up the said award and a copy of the said draft is to be sent to each Company for their perusal and they will attend again next Tuesday at 5 in the afternoon.
Mr. Howe's memorial [for money for the Guards & Garrisons] is read and the minutes taken thereon [are endorsed upon it]. My Lord agrees that he may borrow 36000l. from the Bank on a deposit of Land Tax or Malt tallies anno 1708 at 5 per cent, to wit by 12000l. a week: to be repaid on or before Jan 12 next & to be applied to the several uses mentioned in the said memorial.
Upon reading 2 letters from the Navy Board for 7000l. for paying off 2 hospital ships & 13000l. for bills of exchange my Lord agrees that if the Bank of England will advance 20000l. “by way of deposit” to the Treasurer of the Navy on the Land Tax tallies in his hands payable after 1,684,000l., the same shall be repaid with 5 per cent interest on or before Jan 12 next. Treasury Minute Book XVI, pp. 247–8.
Sept. 28, forenoon. Present: Lord Treasurer.
The gentlemen of the two East India Companies are called in.
Mr. L[owndes describes or] opens the proceedings in relation to the draft of the award to be made by my Lord for uniting the two Companies about which the gentlemen now attend.
The draft [of the award] is ordered to be read.
My Lord says he would be glad to hear their objections or observations as it is read.
Mr. L[owndes] reads.
At the motion of Sir T Coke a clause [is] ordered to be added to the draft that to the intent [to the end that] the members of the Old Company may have time to exchange their bonds & qualify themselves to be electors of the Directors after March 25 next the election of the said Directors shall be on the 14th day of April next ensuing; & due notice to be given to the electors as in such cases are usual. Ibid., p. 249.
Sept. 29, forenoon. Present: Lord Treasurer.
Baron Lovel is called in. My Lord Treasurer signs the award for uniting the 2 East India Companies & the same was ordered to be enrolled in the Exchequer. Ibid., p. 250.